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I presume they use less water because a front-loading washer can saturate all the clothes with a shallow pool of water in a sideways rotating drum whereas a top

I presume they use less water because a front-loading washer can saturate all the clothes with a shallow pool of water in a sideways rotating drum whereas a top loader could not possibly soak all the clothes in a vertical drum unless it fills completely with water. I assume that less hot water means less water to heat, so less energy used. (Heating water uses much more energy than a motor, so the motor running longer in a front loader isn't a big factor in energy usage.) But no matter how efficient they are, I hate front-loading washers. A top loader can wash a load in 20 minutes; front loaders takes hours. That means extra noise for many hours and inability to do multiple loads quickly. And usually front loaders have a much smaller capacity than top loaders. Furthermore, once a front loader starts, it locks the door to prevent water spillage, but this prevents you from throwing in extra items that you found or taking items out part way through. And front loaders cost more, are harder to repair, and end up smelling bad (probably because of the rubber gasket--needed to waterproof the door--that accumulates gunk).

rzzzt 3y ago
What is the name of those "top loaders" that also have a horizontal drum with a locking escape hatch on the side? My mind went immediately to those when seeing the word.
- b112 3y ago
  How could it be a top loader, if the drum isn't open at te top?
  - fabioborellini 3y ago
    That’s exactly and literally what top loaders are in Europe. The drum has a hatch and the machine tries to position it next to the outer hatch for unloading.
  - rzzzt 3y ago
    There is a section of the drum that opens and closes. You rotate the drum to align the opening of the outer shell on the top, also protected by a door.
  - Rygian 3y ago
    Here's a pic: https://ibb.co/QcMwqnm https://ibb.co/QcMwqnm
kelnos 3y ago
> A top loader can wash a load in 20 minutes; front loaders takes hours. This doesn't seem accurate. The regular permanent press cycle on my front loader completes in about 40 minutes. There's also a "quick wash" cycle that takes about 20 minutes. The last top loader I used also took quite a bit more time than 20 minutes. This was a good 25 years ago, so maybe they were just slower then.
- LUmBULtERA 3y ago
  I agree, this doesn't match my experience at all. I recently replaced a top loader that took about 30-45 minutes a load with a front loader of similar capacity. The front loader does all loads in about 30 to 35 minutes.
  - Reason077 3y ago
    European washing machines typically take 2 hours or more on a standard cycle. They take longer in order to meet energy and water-efficiency requirements. But they do have 30-minute (or less) quick wash option too.
seszett 3y ago
> Furthermore, once a front loader starts, it locks the door to prevent water spillage, but this prevents you from throwing in extra items that you found or taking items out part way through. Even if you ignore the European top-loaders with a horizontal drum (which are basically just like US top-loaders except more efficient, smaller, and that don't destroy clothes with elastics) that's not been true for decades. Front loaders only have a few periods where water goes above the level of the door opening, and at any other moment you can pause the washing and open the door. They might cost more in the US, I guess, new front loaders in the EU are cheaper (200-300€ for the base models that work fine and don't have WiFi or whatever) than what I could find when I lived in Canada though (which were more around 500-600 CA$ iirc) but nothing is really comparable. And... they don't smell bad? Frankly the most important difference to me is this central axis in American top-loaders and which clothes wrap themselves and which always ends up destroying elastics. But I think it's necessary for mixing the clothes, sunbed unlike frint loaders gravity hinders mixing rather than helps it.
- oogali 3y ago
  > And... they don't smell bad? If you do not regularly clean the rubber gasket _and_ leave the door open to dry out the rubber completely, you end up with a smelly, slimy mixture of clothing lint-infused mildew. > Frankly the most important difference to me is this central axis in American top-loaders and which clothes wrap themselves and which always ends up destroying elastics. You can buy modern top loaders do not have an agitator that destroys clothes. https://www.bhg.com/impeller-vs-agitator-washing-machine-7486860 https://www.bhg.com/impeller-vs-agitator-washing-machine-748...
  - hedora 3y ago
    The smelly front loader thing seems to be intentional planned obsolescence. They all keep a reservoir of dirty water at the bottom of the washer below the pump, and that water keeps the inside of the machine moist and full of mildew. Ours has a little emergency / cleaning drain hose, but it's so short that it pours back into the machine unless you hold a container inside the door (it's a Samsung). I can easily imagine a little third-party gizmo that clamps on to that hose, detects when the machine is done running, and then opens a valve to drain the water into a bucket or a floor drain. It'd probably cost $50 and more than double the lifespan of the washing machine. I wish the energy efficiency regulations would be updated to ban designs that leave standing dirty water inside appliances.
Symbiote 3y ago
A front-loading machine can wash in 20 minutes, but you'll need to look outside European consumer appliances to find one. European efficiency goals mean the machine washes with the same water for longer. Without that requirement, you can use a lot more water and complete the wash faster. To prevent mould growth around the gasket, leave the front door ajar after use.
- Reason077 3y ago
  Even in Europe, washing machines typically have a quick-wash setting that takes 30 mins or less. But the standard and economy wash modes take much longer because those are the ones that must be measured for the appliance's energy efficiency rating.
GuB-42 3y ago
> A top loader can wash a load in 20 minutes; front loaders takes hours... My front loader can complete a load in 15 minutes on its fastest setting, it can take hours, but only if you ask for it. There is no magic, the longer it takes, the better it cleans, no matter if it is a front or top loader. You choose the setting according to your needs. Also, with regular clothing, it makes very little noise except during the spin drying cycle. If it is behind a closed door, you can't hear it at all. It is a rather recent model from Indesit, one of the most, if not the most popular budget brand in Europe. I paid 330€ for it, which is a typical entry-level price. Top loaders are almost non-existant here, so I can't say much about the price. The rest of the points are right.
- hedora 3y ago
  Ours is similar. It also has a medium-speed cycle that runs in about an hour that does a better job than the fast cycle, but uses more water and electricity than the default (slower) cycles. That cycle is still probably more efficient than a top loader (though I rarely use it).
Reason077 3y ago
Some of your criticisms are valid (ie: can't add extra clothes after starting), but most of them are imagined or exaggerated (why would you want to take soapy part-washed clothes out after starting? Door seal can be wiped clean easily, etc). The positives obviously outweigh the negatives for most buyers, considering front-loaders are almost universal now days in much of the world, even in non-EU countries which aren't bound by that market's energy-efficiency requirements.
amelius 3y ago
Downside: you can put stuff on top of front-loaders. It saves space.
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> end up smelling bad (probably because of the rubber gasket--needed to waterproof the door--that accumulates gunk). Do you never clean them or something? 2 tablespoons of bleach and run the auto-clean mode, wipe the gasket, and there zero issues. I do this like 4 times a year. On capacity, do you need much more than 9 kilos?
throw0101b 3y ago
> A top loader can wash a load in 20 minutes; front loaders takes hours. The "Quick Cycle" for my front loader is 35 minutes. The regular cycle is 45.
anonu 3y ago
The website also adds that front loading clothes have less water in them at the end of the cycle. So the dryer takes up less energy too. I'm not sure how much an impact that actually has these days.
CorrectHorseBat 3y ago
>Furthermore, once a front loader starts, it locks the door to prevent water spillage, but this prevents you from throwing in extra items that you found Usually you have a few minutes before that happens, and there are designs (from Samsung I think) where you have a small door in the door to add more. I like front loading washing machines because you can still put things on top of them, they waste less space.

rzzzt 3y ago

What is the name of those "top loaders" that also have a horizontal drum with a locking escape hatch on the side? My mind went immediately to those when seeing the word.

b112 3y ago
How could it be a top loader, if the drum isn't open at te top?
- fabioborellini 3y ago
  That’s exactly and literally what top loaders are in Europe. The drum has a hatch and the machine tries to position it next to the outer hatch for unloading.
- rzzzt 3y ago
  There is a section of the drum that opens and closes. You rotate the drum to align the opening of the outer shell on the top, also protected by a door.
- Rygian 3y ago
  Here's a pic: https://ibb.co/QcMwqnm https://ibb.co/QcMwqnm

kelnos 3y ago

> A top loader can wash a load in 20 minutes; front loaders takes hours. This doesn't seem accurate. The regular permanent press cycle on my front loader completes in about 40 minutes. There's also a "quick wash" cycle that takes about 20 minutes. The last top loader I used also took quite a bit more time than 20 minutes. This was a good 25 years ago, so maybe they were just slower then.

LUmBULtERA 3y ago
I agree, this doesn't match my experience at all. I recently replaced a top loader that took about 30-45 minutes a load with a front loader of similar capacity. The front loader does all loads in about 30 to 35 minutes.
- Reason077 3y ago
  European washing machines typically take 2 hours or more on a standard cycle. They take longer in order to meet energy and water-efficiency requirements. But they do have 30-minute (or less) quick wash option too.

seszett 3y ago

> Furthermore, once a front loader starts, it locks the door to prevent water spillage, but this prevents you from throwing in extra items that you found or taking items out part way through. Even if you ignore the European top-loaders with a horizontal drum (which are basically just like US top-loaders except more efficient, smaller, and that don't destroy clothes with elastics) that's not been true for decades. Front loaders only have a few periods where water goes above the level of the door opening, and at any other moment you can pause the washing and open the door. They might cost more in the US, I guess, new front loaders in the EU are cheaper (200-300€ for the base models that work fine and don't have WiFi or whatever) than what I could find when I lived in Canada though (which were more around 500-600 CA$ iirc) but nothing is really comparable. And... they don't smell bad? Frankly the most important difference to me is this central axis in American top-loaders and which clothes wrap themselves and which always ends up destroying elastics. But I think it's necessary for mixing the clothes, sunbed unlike frint loaders gravity hinders mixing rather than helps it.

oogali 3y ago
> And... they don't smell bad? If you do not regularly clean the rubber gasket _and_ leave the door open to dry out the rubber completely, you end up with a smelly, slimy mixture of clothing lint-infused mildew. > Frankly the most important difference to me is this central axis in American top-loaders and which clothes wrap themselves and which always ends up destroying elastics. You can buy modern top loaders do not have an agitator that destroys clothes. https://www.bhg.com/impeller-vs-agitator-washing-machine-7486860 https://www.bhg.com/impeller-vs-agitator-washing-machine-748...
- hedora 3y ago
  The smelly front loader thing seems to be intentional planned obsolescence. They all keep a reservoir of dirty water at the bottom of the washer below the pump, and that water keeps the inside of the machine moist and full of mildew. Ours has a little emergency / cleaning drain hose, but it's so short that it pours back into the machine unless you hold a container inside the door (it's a Samsung). I can easily imagine a little third-party gizmo that clamps on to that hose, detects when the machine is done running, and then opens a valve to drain the water into a bucket or a floor drain. It'd probably cost $50 and more than double the lifespan of the washing machine. I wish the energy efficiency regulations would be updated to ban designs that leave standing dirty water inside appliances.

Symbiote 3y ago

A front-loading machine can wash in 20 minutes, but you'll need to look outside European consumer appliances to find one. European efficiency goals mean the machine washes with the same water for longer. Without that requirement, you can use a lot more water and complete the wash faster. To prevent mould growth around the gasket, leave the front door ajar after use.

Reason077 3y ago
Even in Europe, washing machines typically have a quick-wash setting that takes 30 mins or less. But the standard and economy wash modes take much longer because those are the ones that must be measured for the appliance's energy efficiency rating.

GuB-42 3y ago

> A top loader can wash a load in 20 minutes; front loaders takes hours... My front loader can complete a load in 15 minutes on its fastest setting, it can take hours, but only if you ask for it. There is no magic, the longer it takes, the better it cleans, no matter if it is a front or top loader. You choose the setting according to your needs. Also, with regular clothing, it makes very little noise except during the spin drying cycle. If it is behind a closed door, you can't hear it at all. It is a rather recent model from Indesit, one of the most, if not the most popular budget brand in Europe. I paid 330€ for it, which is a typical entry-level price. Top loaders are almost non-existant here, so I can't say much about the price. The rest of the points are right.

hedora 3y ago
Ours is similar. It also has a medium-speed cycle that runs in about an hour that does a better job than the fast cycle, but uses more water and electricity than the default (slower) cycles. That cycle is still probably more efficient than a top loader (though I rarely use it).

Reason077 3y ago

Some of your criticisms are valid (ie: can't add extra clothes after starting), but most of them are imagined or exaggerated (why would you want to take soapy part-washed clothes out after starting? Door seal can be wiped clean easily, etc). The positives obviously outweigh the negatives for most buyers, considering front-loaders are almost universal now days in much of the world, even in non-EU countries which aren't bound by that market's energy-efficiency requirements.

amelius 3y ago

Downside: you can put stuff on top of front-loaders. It saves space.

ClumsyPilot 3y ago

> end up smelling bad (probably because of the rubber gasket--needed to waterproof the door--that accumulates gunk). Do you never clean them or something? 2 tablespoons of bleach and run the auto-clean mode, wipe the gasket, and there zero issues. I do this like 4 times a year. On capacity, do you need much more than 9 kilos?

throw0101b 3y ago

> A top loader can wash a load in 20 minutes; front loaders takes hours. The "Quick Cycle" for my front loader is 35 minutes. The regular cycle is 45.

anonu 3y ago

The website also adds that front loading clothes have less water in them at the end of the cycle. So the dryer takes up less energy too. I'm not sure how much an impact that actually has these days.

CorrectHorseBat 3y ago

>Furthermore, once a front loader starts, it locks the door to prevent water spillage, but this prevents you from throwing in extra items that you found Usually you have a few minutes before that happens, and there are designs (from Samsung I think) where you have a small door in the door to add more. I like front loading washing machines because you can still put things on top of them, they waste less space.