5 ms·

> Voltage Holdings and Screen Media Ventures cited Reddit posts in which users say that Frontier didn't terminate their Internet service despite sending many co

> Voltage Holdings and Screen Media Ventures cited Reddit posts in which users say that Frontier didn't terminate their Internet service despite sending many copyright infringement notices about torrent downloads. One of the users wrote, "I got a total of 44 emails from frontier about downloading torrents and that it could terminate service. They haven't yet. And I kinda feel like if they didn't do it after 44 emails. That they won't… ." Don't they just want to file a lawsuit against Frontier? What is Reddit's involvement other than their website being used for this communication?

VoidWhisperer 3y ago
My understanding is that the users in question were talking about piracy or committing piracy on reddit and the movie companies want to get the IPs of those users from reddit in order to prove that Frontier isnt terminating people committing piracy. Alternatively, depending on how large the list of users they requested IPs for from reddit is, it could be a fishing expedition to see if any of them happen to belong to frontier
- imoverclocked 3y ago
  It would be interesting to know if an admission to pirating content on Reddit is actually admissible. I would think it falls under free speech. Eg: someone makes a parody of an old Monty Python song and states, “I’m a pirate and that’s ok.” Should this count in an age where the vast majority of legal notices in this genre are robo-lawyers? Should my internet connection be severed because a guest was bored and posted to Reddit while at my house?
  - Drakim 3y ago
    At some point in my life I committed a crime. Here's to hoping that's not enough to have me subpoenaed.
    - hdanirwin 3y ago
      See you in court
  - Vt71fcAqt7 3y ago
    I think I get your point but being free speech and being an admission of a crime are not mutually exclusive.
  - al_borland 3y ago
    IANAL, but I think free speech is about being jailed for what you say. This is more about admitting to an action that allegedly performed. The speech isn't the problem, it's the action the speech is talking about. I think they'd have a hard time moving forward on that alone. They need some kind of proof, which is what I think they were trying to get. All they can prove is that the person said they got 44 emails, the person could be lying. There is no law against lying on an internet message board.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    >I would think it falls under free speech. Yes, admitting to committing a crime is not in and of itself illegal. It does, however, make it a lot more likely you'll be tried and convicted for the crime you admitted to committing.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      Just because the words came out of my mouth or from my finger tips typed into this little text area does not actually mean I did the thing I'm "admitting". I could be saying it for the clout. I could have said it but forgot the /s. I could be an actor performing the dialog. Where's the witness I actually typed it? Even if there is video, it's all fake news from an AI deep fake. Believe none of what your read or hear, and only half of what you see. Or some such.
      - thfuran 3y ago
        I'm not sure what your point is. Nobody (in the us) is shipping people straight to prison on the basis of public admissions of guilt. You still shouldn't publicly admit to a crime.
        dylan604 3y ago
        Just pointing out how ridiculous some post on a forum being used as evidence sounds.
        thfuran 3y ago
        The most ridiculous part was where you suggested that witness testimony was authoritative.
        hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
        For piracy yea, but what about something more extreme like murder?
        3y ago
  - naasking 3y ago
    > It would be interesting to know if an admission to pirating content on Reddit is actually admissible. The problem here is tying the account to a real person. Technically anyone could be using that account, his daughter, brother, wife, etc., just like anyone could be behind the wheel of your car if it's used to commit a crime.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      > Technically anyone could be using that account Not just the account but the internet service as well. Even if they get the IP addresses for the reddit posts, and they're Frontier IPs, it's still possible that the person who wrote the post submitted it/logged in/created their account over a loved one's home network.
      - k12sosse 3y ago
        Just create an open wifi network and throttle it down to 1kbpm, plausible deniability!
- mox1 3y ago
  This is correct, the Reddit poster(s) in question were discussing how lax Frontier was about Copyright strikes. The movie company presumably wanted to have that person testify about said lax policy in court.
saghm 3y ago
I suspect the conversations went something like this: Film industry lawyer: Tell us everyone who pirated our movies. Frontier lawyer: We've told you everyone we know of. Film industry lawyer: What about those people on reddit bragging about getting away with it? Frontier lawyer: We don't have any way of knowing if those are actual customers, let alone if they're telling the truth. If you have a specific IP you want us to look into, we'd be happy to help. (later) Film industry lawyer: Give us the IPs of these users who made comments bragging about getting away with pirating. Reddit lawyer: No. Film industry lawyer: Okay, see you in court.
- Wowfunhappy 3y ago
  I'm actually kind of surprised Reddit didn't just cooperate? As a company which frankly has been acting with particular contempt for users of late, how does Reddit profit from fighting this?
  - rPlayer6554 3y ago
    People like their anonymity on Reddit. Every action reddit takes to make it less anonymous looks really bad. That kind of thing scares people and reddit already has some PR problems.
    - aydyn 3y ago
      [dead]
  - kossTKR 3y ago
    If word spread that Reddit would name people writing specific comments about various "controversial" topics i think millions would flee? The entire spirit of Reddit is because of anonymity, from askreddit, to intimate questions, to political talk. Also there's lots of lying, fantasy, larping and fiction.
  - bastawhiz 3y ago
    On the flip side, what's in it for them if they cooperate? There's no profit involved with procuring information for another for-profit entity that they have no business relationship with, and then likely having to show up for some other court battle to testify about the accuracy of the data.
bithaze 3y ago
> What is Reddit's involvement other than their website being used for this communication? I think that's it, which is why reddit is referred to as non-party in the motion.

VoidWhisperer 3y ago

My understanding is that the users in question were talking about piracy or committing piracy on reddit and the movie companies want to get the IPs of those users from reddit in order to prove that Frontier isnt terminating people committing piracy. Alternatively, depending on how large the list of users they requested IPs for from reddit is, it could be a fishing expedition to see if any of them happen to belong to frontier

imoverclocked 3y ago
It would be interesting to know if an admission to pirating content on Reddit is actually admissible. I would think it falls under free speech. Eg: someone makes a parody of an old Monty Python song and states, “I’m a pirate and that’s ok.” Should this count in an age where the vast majority of legal notices in this genre are robo-lawyers? Should my internet connection be severed because a guest was bored and posted to Reddit while at my house?
- Drakim 3y ago
  At some point in my life I committed a crime. Here's to hoping that's not enough to have me subpoenaed.
  - hdanirwin 3y ago
    See you in court
- Vt71fcAqt7 3y ago
  I think I get your point but being free speech and being an admission of a crime are not mutually exclusive.
- al_borland 3y ago
  IANAL, but I think free speech is about being jailed for what you say. This is more about admitting to an action that allegedly performed. The speech isn't the problem, it's the action the speech is talking about. I think they'd have a hard time moving forward on that alone. They need some kind of proof, which is what I think they were trying to get. All they can prove is that the person said they got 44 emails, the person could be lying. There is no law against lying on an internet message board.
- thfuran 3y ago
  >I would think it falls under free speech. Yes, admitting to committing a crime is not in and of itself illegal. It does, however, make it a lot more likely you'll be tried and convicted for the crime you admitted to committing.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    Just because the words came out of my mouth or from my finger tips typed into this little text area does not actually mean I did the thing I'm "admitting". I could be saying it for the clout. I could have said it but forgot the /s. I could be an actor performing the dialog. Where's the witness I actually typed it? Even if there is video, it's all fake news from an AI deep fake. Believe none of what your read or hear, and only half of what you see. Or some such.
    - thfuran 3y ago
      I'm not sure what your point is. Nobody (in the us) is shipping people straight to prison on the basis of public admissions of guilt. You still shouldn't publicly admit to a crime.
      - dylan604 3y ago
        Just pointing out how ridiculous some post on a forum being used as evidence sounds.
        thfuran 3y ago
        The most ridiculous part was where you suggested that witness testimony was authoritative.
        hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
        For piracy yea, but what about something more extreme like murder?
        3y ago
- naasking 3y ago
  > It would be interesting to know if an admission to pirating content on Reddit is actually admissible. The problem here is tying the account to a real person. Technically anyone could be using that account, his daughter, brother, wife, etc., just like anyone could be behind the wheel of your car if it's used to commit a crime.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    > Technically anyone could be using that account Not just the account but the internet service as well. Even if they get the IP addresses for the reddit posts, and they're Frontier IPs, it's still possible that the person who wrote the post submitted it/logged in/created their account over a loved one's home network.
    - k12sosse 3y ago
      Just create an open wifi network and throttle it down to 1kbpm, plausible deniability!
mox1 3y ago
This is correct, the Reddit poster(s) in question were discussing how lax Frontier was about Copyright strikes. The movie company presumably wanted to have that person testify about said lax policy in court.

saghm 3y ago

I suspect the conversations went something like this: Film industry lawyer: Tell us everyone who pirated our movies. Frontier lawyer: We've told you everyone we know of. Film industry lawyer: What about those people on reddit bragging about getting away with it? Frontier lawyer: We don't have any way of knowing if those are actual customers, let alone if they're telling the truth. If you have a specific IP you want us to look into, we'd be happy to help. (later) Film industry lawyer: Give us the IPs of these users who made comments bragging about getting away with pirating. Reddit lawyer: No. Film industry lawyer: Okay, see you in court.

Wowfunhappy 3y ago
I'm actually kind of surprised Reddit didn't just cooperate? As a company which frankly has been acting with particular contempt for users of late, how does Reddit profit from fighting this?
- rPlayer6554 3y ago
  People like their anonymity on Reddit. Every action reddit takes to make it less anonymous looks really bad. That kind of thing scares people and reddit already has some PR problems.
  - aydyn 3y ago
    [dead]
- kossTKR 3y ago
  If word spread that Reddit would name people writing specific comments about various "controversial" topics i think millions would flee? The entire spirit of Reddit is because of anonymity, from askreddit, to intimate questions, to political talk. Also there's lots of lying, fantasy, larping and fiction.
- bastawhiz 3y ago
  On the flip side, what's in it for them if they cooperate? There's no profit involved with procuring information for another for-profit entity that they have no business relationship with, and then likely having to show up for some other court battle to testify about the accuracy of the data.

bithaze 3y ago

> What is Reddit's involvement other than their website being used for this communication? I think that's it, which is why reddit is referred to as non-party in the motion.