6 ms·

> I saw a team lose its sole TL with a decade+ of tenure on the team, then turn around and hire 4-6 people to try and catch up. My god.. That's pure ineptitude

> I saw a team lose its sole TL with a decade+ of tenure on the team, then turn around and hire 4-6 people to try and catch up. My god.. That's pure ineptitude and I'm sorry for anyone at that company right now. This basically sends the message "doesn't matter how good you are, we're going to spin the wheel every so often and if it lands on you you're out"

CamelCaseName 3y ago
Is it possible they did this on purpose to expand their team size?
- arvinsim 3y ago
  Not uncommon. Take out the old guard and hire new people for empire building.
- refulgentis 3y ago
  No that's absolutely bonkers and an edge case. 5 women don't have a baby in 1.8 months, and headcount has been frozen-ish since late 2021 unless you're Bard, so we're looking at someone dangerously stupid sticking their neck out to over-compensate, for no good reason, and inexperienced with basic tech shibboleths. Also, the large firing decisions in January 2023 and January 2024 were made up several steps up the ladder. There's been probably just as much firings done informally inbetween, and to your point, some were very purposeful: multiple people in Assistant org. reported independently that new directors and their couterie were grafted onto the org, they were shuffled onto "Still Very Important" Assistant teams, then the not-so-important Assistant teams were let go en masse.
  - bluepizza 3y ago
    > 5 women don't have a baby in 1.8 months They have 5 (or more) babies in 9 months, which is precisely the point of empire building: being able to handle more than one priority.
    - refulgentis 3y ago
      Sure, except, it was 1 employee replaced by 5, and there isn't headcount backfill.
      - Rastonbury 3y ago
        I don't find that story believable, you don't layoff then open backfill or let alone multiple roles on the team. The handful of Googlers I spoke to are now in smaller teams handling the same workload. If true it must've been some AI related team
        hiptobecubic 3y ago
        Good for you, i guess? It was absolutely as stupid as they describe. There were multiple teams that were literally interviewing people to join and then laid people off in the middle of it. My own team was trying to fill multiple positions and then they fired one of us (long tenure, good perf) and told us we could hire backfill as long as it wasn't the experienced, useful person we just let go. We explicitly asked and the answer we got was that this stupid shit was somehow protecting alphabet.
- jjjjoe 3y ago
  no.
  - dilyevsky 3y ago
    If you think managers everywhere dont employ this tactic i have a bridge to sell you
    - pooper 3y ago
      Absolutely. There was a leaked memo iirc from Microsoft that prohibited "exceeds expectations". And then there's the antipoaching https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipoaching https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipoaching
- PeterStuer 3y ago
  Absolutely, and tick more boxes on things other than merit and 'gets the job done'.
MuffinFlavored 3y ago
> I'm sorry for anyone at that company right now The average total compensation for an engineer is $250k-$350k/yr+ https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Software-Engineer-Salaries-E9079_D_KO7,24.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Software-Engineer-Sa... https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Citrix,UKG,American%20Express&track=Software%20Engineer https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Citrix,UKG,American%2...
- bdangubic 3y ago
  that is supposed make you not feel sorry, $250k-$350k…? feel sorry for you for posting this…
- refulgentis 3y ago
  It's hard to describe the pure absolute hell that can be working there, you'd be surprised how quickly the money becomes not worth it.
  - ipdashc 3y ago
    This feels excessive... ? It's Google, not a coal mine.
    - red-iron-pine 3y ago
      coal mines are only hellish while you're down. yeah there is the black lung, but you can wear filters. the goog tracks you (and everyone) 24-7, and depending on teams and egos, could be ugly. you spend your whole life tryin to get to FAANG tier, and now it's miserable.
      - RCitronsBroker 3y ago
        this comment is really something
        refulgentis 3y ago
foofie 3y ago
> This basically sends the message "doesn't matter how good you are, we're going to spin the wheel every so often and if it lands on you you're out" The conspiracy theory that's making the rounds is that these rounds of layoffs from tech firms have zero to do with financial reports or economy downturns, and are instead a coordinated effort, along with RTO policies, to wrestle negotiation power from tech workers and put downward pressure on tech salaries. Hence the apparent lack of criteria and indiscriminate layoffs complemented with hiring rounds. I recall that a FANG ordered managers to decimate their teams while ramping up hiring on teams located in the same building, and HR openly rejected the idea of even having employees in the chopping block interview for those positions.
- bsimpson 3y ago
  I've also heard it positioned as an age discrimination loophole to fire your seniors and replace them with juniors, while calling the whole thing a macroeconomic-driven layoff.
- darreninthenet 3y ago
  Is there no law in the US that requires an employer to find a job for somebody before firing? And that includes being allowed to apply for open roles...
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Barring an agreement to the contrary, employers and employees can terminate employment any time they want, except in Montana, as long as the termination is not due to the employee being in a protected class.
    - darreninthenet 3y ago
      So apart from the protected class thing, there's no concept of wrongful dismissal in the US? And what's different in Montana?
      - 3y ago
EvanKnowles 3y ago
We had this, but HR moved so slowly that the (good) guy that was fired was still there when the new guy arrived.

CamelCaseName 3y ago

Is it possible they did this on purpose to expand their team size?

arvinsim 3y ago
Not uncommon. Take out the old guard and hire new people for empire building.
refulgentis 3y ago
No that's absolutely bonkers and an edge case. 5 women don't have a baby in 1.8 months, and headcount has been frozen-ish since late 2021 unless you're Bard, so we're looking at someone dangerously stupid sticking their neck out to over-compensate, for no good reason, and inexperienced with basic tech shibboleths. Also, the large firing decisions in January 2023 and January 2024 were made up several steps up the ladder. There's been probably just as much firings done informally inbetween, and to your point, some were very purposeful: multiple people in Assistant org. reported independently that new directors and their couterie were grafted onto the org, they were shuffled onto "Still Very Important" Assistant teams, then the not-so-important Assistant teams were let go en masse.
- bluepizza 3y ago
  > 5 women don't have a baby in 1.8 months They have 5 (or more) babies in 9 months, which is precisely the point of empire building: being able to handle more than one priority.
  - refulgentis 3y ago
    Sure, except, it was 1 employee replaced by 5, and there isn't headcount backfill.
    - Rastonbury 3y ago
      I don't find that story believable, you don't layoff then open backfill or let alone multiple roles on the team. The handful of Googlers I spoke to are now in smaller teams handling the same workload. If true it must've been some AI related team
      - hiptobecubic 3y ago
        Good for you, i guess? It was absolutely as stupid as they describe. There were multiple teams that were literally interviewing people to join and then laid people off in the middle of it. My own team was trying to fill multiple positions and then they fired one of us (long tenure, good perf) and told us we could hire backfill as long as it wasn't the experienced, useful person we just let go. We explicitly asked and the answer we got was that this stupid shit was somehow protecting alphabet.
jjjjoe 3y ago
no.
- dilyevsky 3y ago
  If you think managers everywhere dont employ this tactic i have a bridge to sell you
  - pooper 3y ago
    Absolutely. There was a leaked memo iirc from Microsoft that prohibited "exceeds expectations". And then there's the antipoaching https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipoaching https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipoaching
PeterStuer 3y ago
Absolutely, and tick more boxes on things other than merit and 'gets the job done'.

MuffinFlavored 3y ago

> I'm sorry for anyone at that company right now The average total compensation for an engineer is $250k-$350k/yr+ https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Software-Engineer-Salaries-E9079_D_KO7,24.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Software-Engineer-Sa... https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Citrix,UKG,American%20Express&track=Software%20Engineer https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Citrix,UKG,American%2...

bdangubic 3y ago
that is supposed make you not feel sorry, $250k-$350k…? feel sorry for you for posting this…
refulgentis 3y ago
It's hard to describe the pure absolute hell that can be working there, you'd be surprised how quickly the money becomes not worth it.
- ipdashc 3y ago
  This feels excessive... ? It's Google, not a coal mine.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    coal mines are only hellish while you're down. yeah there is the black lung, but you can wear filters. the goog tracks you (and everyone) 24-7, and depending on teams and egos, could be ugly. you spend your whole life tryin to get to FAANG tier, and now it's miserable.
    - RCitronsBroker 3y ago
      this comment is really something
      - refulgentis 3y ago

foofie 3y ago

> This basically sends the message "doesn't matter how good you are, we're going to spin the wheel every so often and if it lands on you you're out" The conspiracy theory that's making the rounds is that these rounds of layoffs from tech firms have zero to do with financial reports or economy downturns, and are instead a coordinated effort, along with RTO policies, to wrestle negotiation power from tech workers and put downward pressure on tech salaries. Hence the apparent lack of criteria and indiscriminate layoffs complemented with hiring rounds. I recall that a FANG ordered managers to decimate their teams while ramping up hiring on teams located in the same building, and HR openly rejected the idea of even having employees in the chopping block interview for those positions.

bsimpson 3y ago
I've also heard it positioned as an age discrimination loophole to fire your seniors and replace them with juniors, while calling the whole thing a macroeconomic-driven layoff.
darreninthenet 3y ago
Is there no law in the US that requires an employer to find a job for somebody before firing? And that includes being allowed to apply for open roles...
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Barring an agreement to the contrary, employers and employees can terminate employment any time they want, except in Montana, as long as the termination is not due to the employee being in a protected class.
  - darreninthenet 3y ago
    So apart from the protected class thing, there's no concept of wrongful dismissal in the US? And what's different in Montana?
    - 3y ago

EvanKnowles 3y ago

We had this, but HR moved so slowly that the (good) guy that was fired was still there when the new guy arrived.