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That is the story if you read western media but it is important to remember that there is a massive world outside the west where that story is turned on its hea

That is the story if you read western media but it is important to remember that there is a massive world outside the west where that story is turned on its head: Here the US is a frail aging empire that just cannot handle the peaceful rise of China, and the idea of it no being the top dog, and thus lashes out in an increasing desperate manner.

noobermin 3y ago
Speaking as someone who now lives in Singapore, this is not the universal view outside the west and the rise of China is perhaps not warlike in the invading territory sense but people are wary of them.
- throwaway4good 3y ago
  Sorry - just to be clear - just as "Xi is an evil dictator" is common but not universal point of view in the west; the "US is a declining and aggressive empire" is a common but not universal point of view in the rest of the world.
dangus 3y ago
But that is its own form of exaggerated propaganda from the opposing side. In reality, America is playing on geopolitical easy mode and is essentially too big to fail. - It has vast natural resources, some like its oil surplus are resources that even China needs to import. - It has a vast, diverse economy that includes high representation in high-complexity high-value products like software, airplanes, and, yes, semiconductors (Intel manufactures 75% of their products in the US). - It is highly developed and highly educated with particular strength in higher education - It is essentially impossible to physically attack - It produces a crazy amount of food - Its multinational corporations own a large amount of foreign assets, with a banking system that is entangled with the rest of the world - It is close allies with basically everyone that matters except China and Russia, and arguably China is more dependent on the US than the US depends on China. - NAFTA countries are a huge strength to the US. The US now buys more from Mexico than China. - The world’s second largest military and navy are basically non-existent, and the US military is unmatched in logistics.
- throwaway4good 3y ago
  The US empire can fall apart without the US mainland being invaded or even threathened. Just like the UK empire was intact after the second world war but over the next three decades completely fell apart. Simplified empire is about ever increasing conquest and exploitation. At one point the conquests and military upkeep becomes more expensive than the spoils and the whole process starts going in reverse. Of course I am not saying that this is what is happening right now; maybe Russia and China are falling apart and we are entering another unipolar moment.
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    The difference is that the US is not an empire. It's an economic hegemony (if you're looking at it from a relative power perspective). Its power stems from sovereign, contiguous territory with resources, or a network of global treaties both economic and military. In contrast, Britain was a globe-spanning empire, which disintegrated with national independence movements. The equivalent would be if California and Texas decided to split from the United States. And as the quip goes... the next few largest economies, including China, are pretty incentivized to keep the global economy rules as-is, because they benefit. De-dollarization is happening, but is going to be a slow shift, with an uncertain outcome.
    - throwaway4good 3y ago
      I think the word empire is too loaded to be useful. And mechanisms of conquest and exploitation are different. But the core mechanism is the same. And I think in two hundred years when history is written by someone who is dispassionate about it, the US empire will be seen a continuation of the UK and Dutch empires that was before it.
      - ethbr1 3y ago
        IMHO, the Dutch arc is definitely a more sound comparison. Albeit, as you say, with the military force of the British. The key difference with the post-WWII economic world order was that the US generally tried to ensure that everyone else got theirs. Granted, the US got more, but there was insight that a global economy that benefited all was more stable than a system that left powerful economies outside, with an incentive to topple it.
baby 3y ago
What happened in HK left a sour taste in the mouth of a lot of people. I’m all for China rising but all I see is a country still closed to the world.
berserk1010 3y ago
> US is a frail aging empire that just cannot handle the peaceful rise of China Not seeing that by the numbers 1.) The heavy market losses in 2024 come hot on the heels of a bruising run last year, when the CSI 300 index, comprising 300 major stocks listed in Shanghai and Shenzhen, fell more than 11%. By contrast, the United States’ benchmark S&P 500 index climbed 24% in 2023, while Europe’s grew almost 13%. Japan’s Nikkei 225 soared 28% last year and is still going strong, notching gains of nearly 10% so far this month. https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/22/business/china-stock-market-falls-2016-crash/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/22/business/china-stock-market-f... 2.) China suffers from deflation, while the rest of the world combats inflation. Not only does deflation signal a stagnating economy, it can lead to high unemployment, unaffordable debt repayment, and dismal outcomes for businesses. In the worst cases, deflation can lead an economy into a recession, or even a depression. https://www.wsj.com/world/china/deflation-worries-deepen-in-china-e193c735 https://www.wsj.com/world/china/deflation-worries-deepen-in-... 3.) Crushing debt. Going back further, China accounts for over half of the entire world’s total debt-to-GDP increases since 2008. https://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/backgrounder-china-economy-year-in-review/ https://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/backgrounder-china-econo... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-01-06/bloomberg-new-economy-china-s-debt-mountain-is-even-bigger-than-feared https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-01-06/bloomb... 4.) China’s youth unemployment rate hit consecutive record highs in recent months. From April to June, the jobless rate for 16- to 24-year-olds reached 20.4%, 20.8% and 21.3% respectively. https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/economy/china-economy-july-slowdown-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/economy/china-economy-july-sl.... For reference, G7 countries is at 10%, US is at 8% https://data.oecd.org/unemp/youth-unemployment-rate.htm https://data.oecd.org/unemp/youth-unemployment-rate.htm
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nonethewiser 3y ago
Take a moment to consider what you just said. It’s just that - a story you are getting from the media. If these stories change from source to source maybe they’re not an authority you should appeal to.
- throwaway4good 3y ago
  Yep.

noobermin 3y ago

Speaking as someone who now lives in Singapore, this is not the universal view outside the west and the rise of China is perhaps not warlike in the invading territory sense but people are wary of them.

throwaway4good 3y ago
Sorry - just to be clear - just as "Xi is an evil dictator" is common but not universal point of view in the west; the "US is a declining and aggressive empire" is a common but not universal point of view in the rest of the world.

dangus 3y ago

But that is its own form of exaggerated propaganda from the opposing side. In reality, America is playing on geopolitical easy mode and is essentially too big to fail. - It has vast natural resources, some like its oil surplus are resources that even China needs to import. - It has a vast, diverse economy that includes high representation in high-complexity high-value products like software, airplanes, and, yes, semiconductors (Intel manufactures 75% of their products in the US). - It is highly developed and highly educated with particular strength in higher education - It is essentially impossible to physically attack - It produces a crazy amount of food - Its multinational corporations own a large amount of foreign assets, with a banking system that is entangled with the rest of the world - It is close allies with basically everyone that matters except China and Russia, and arguably China is more dependent on the US than the US depends on China. - NAFTA countries are a huge strength to the US. The US now buys more from Mexico than China. - The world’s second largest military and navy are basically non-existent, and the US military is unmatched in logistics.

throwaway4good 3y ago
The US empire can fall apart without the US mainland being invaded or even threathened. Just like the UK empire was intact after the second world war but over the next three decades completely fell apart. Simplified empire is about ever increasing conquest and exploitation. At one point the conquests and military upkeep becomes more expensive than the spoils and the whole process starts going in reverse. Of course I am not saying that this is what is happening right now; maybe Russia and China are falling apart and we are entering another unipolar moment.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  The difference is that the US is not an empire. It's an economic hegemony (if you're looking at it from a relative power perspective). Its power stems from sovereign, contiguous territory with resources, or a network of global treaties both economic and military. In contrast, Britain was a globe-spanning empire, which disintegrated with national independence movements. The equivalent would be if California and Texas decided to split from the United States. And as the quip goes... the next few largest economies, including China, are pretty incentivized to keep the global economy rules as-is, because they benefit. De-dollarization is happening, but is going to be a slow shift, with an uncertain outcome.
  - throwaway4good 3y ago
    I think the word empire is too loaded to be useful. And mechanisms of conquest and exploitation are different. But the core mechanism is the same. And I think in two hundred years when history is written by someone who is dispassionate about it, the US empire will be seen a continuation of the UK and Dutch empires that was before it.
    - ethbr1 3y ago
      IMHO, the Dutch arc is definitely a more sound comparison. Albeit, as you say, with the military force of the British. The key difference with the post-WWII economic world order was that the US generally tried to ensure that everyone else got theirs. Granted, the US got more, but there was insight that a global economy that benefited all was more stable than a system that left powerful economies outside, with an incentive to topple it.

baby 3y ago

What happened in HK left a sour taste in the mouth of a lot of people. I’m all for China rising but all I see is a country still closed to the world.

berserk1010 3y ago

> US is a frail aging empire that just cannot handle the peaceful rise of China Not seeing that by the numbers 1.) The heavy market losses in 2024 come hot on the heels of a bruising run last year, when the CSI 300 index, comprising 300 major stocks listed in Shanghai and Shenzhen, fell more than 11%. By contrast, the United States’ benchmark S&P 500 index climbed 24% in 2023, while Europe’s grew almost 13%. Japan’s Nikkei 225 soared 28% last year and is still going strong, notching gains of nearly 10% so far this month. https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/22/business/china-stock-market-falls-2016-crash/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/22/business/china-stock-market-f... 2.) China suffers from deflation, while the rest of the world combats inflation. Not only does deflation signal a stagnating economy, it can lead to high unemployment, unaffordable debt repayment, and dismal outcomes for businesses. In the worst cases, deflation can lead an economy into a recession, or even a depression. https://www.wsj.com/world/china/deflation-worries-deepen-in-china-e193c735 https://www.wsj.com/world/china/deflation-worries-deepen-in-... 3.) Crushing debt. Going back further, China accounts for over half of the entire world’s total debt-to-GDP increases since 2008. https://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/backgrounder-china-economy-year-in-review/ https://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/backgrounder-china-econo... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-01-06/bloomberg-new-economy-china-s-debt-mountain-is-even-bigger-than-feared https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-01-06/bloomb... 4.) China’s youth unemployment rate hit consecutive record highs in recent months. From April to June, the jobless rate for 16- to 24-year-olds reached 20.4%, 20.8% and 21.3% respectively. https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/economy/china-economy-july-slowdown-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/economy/china-economy-july-sl.... For reference, G7 countries is at 10%, US is at 8% https://data.oecd.org/unemp/youth-unemployment-rate.htm https://data.oecd.org/unemp/youth-unemployment-rate.htm

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

nonethewiser 3y ago

Take a moment to consider what you just said. It’s just that - a story you are getting from the media. If these stories change from source to source maybe they’re not an authority you should appeal to.

throwaway4good 3y ago
Yep.