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My wife is taking a course in environmental architecture, and the information she's been sharing is nothing short for terrifying. Worse, the messaging about "do

My wife is taking a course in environmental architecture, and the information she's been sharing is nothing short for terrifying. Worse, the messaging about "doing your part" seems embarrassingly naive now.

kibwen 3y ago
One way or the other, people will be doing their part. Might as well get used to consuming less now before contraction forces the issue.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  It’s more about building your life to maximize self sufficiency with the understanding that you will still need to rely on society for some needs. Also living somewhere with low climate risk and high confidence of access to fresh water for the remainder of your life (and that of loved ones, if applicable). When contraction occurs, if you’ve planned properly, it’ll be news you read about, not impact on your life. TLDR Optimize for the expectation of persistent volatility.
  - 36933 3y ago
    Where are these places?
    - quonn 3y ago
      Well, there are plenty of maps that show which areas will be impacted more than others.
    - raisedbyninjas 3y ago
      Climate havens, near the great lakes in the US.
    - bmelton 3y ago
      FEMA has a list somewhere, but IIRC, the top of it included places like Buffalo, a few cities in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ann Arbor. Established cities along the great lakes are supposedly best positioned, but I've seen reports indicating that the age of the cities' infrastructure was a weakness for basically every one of the supposed climate havens
    - ejb999 3y ago
      This site is pretty good for checking out the various risks by county or census tract for about 15 different climate risks. https://hazards.fema.gov/nri/map https://hazards.fema.gov/nri/map
  - tenpies 3y ago
    Jurisdiction is crucial too. The chances that a Western government will leave you alone during all of this are virtually zero.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      The chances you'll do better elsewhere are worse, unless you're a warlord. I have looked at places off the map for the next 100 years for this purpose. Maybe I'm wrong, where would you go to be self sufficient and ungovernable outside the Western world?
- petercooper 3y ago
  Ideally, but I wonder if that's how the psychology will play out. People faced with an uncertain future may just as likely throw caution to the wind instead? https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/tiktok-young-workers-doom-spending-b2466149.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/tiktok-young-worker...
- bevesce- 3y ago
  Why? Why it's not better to enjoy why it lasts?
Diederich 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Adaptation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Adaptation
- flir 3y ago
  "The agenda includes values of nonviolence, compassion, curiosity and respect, with a framework for constructive action." We're still talking about Humans, right? We are so screwed.
amelius 3y ago
"Doing your part" always seemed like a nice way for the rich to put their heads in the sand. Meanwhile at least 95% of the world population lives from paycheck to paycheck (immediate existential threat versus long term threat) and doesn't have the financial means to buy solar panels, EVs, etc., but also more durable items instead of cheap stuff from China.
- kiba 3y ago
  No snowflake is single-handedly responsible for the avalanche, plus rich people pollute the most anyway, especially those who live in the west.
  - rkuykendall-com 3y ago
    But this is why avalanche safety doesn't involve asking individual snowflakes to change their behavior.
Y-bar 3y ago
> "doing your part" seems embarrassingly naive now. Yes and no. I would even go as far as to say that nihilism of no value in doing the right thing has been one reason we have reach this point -- we have lost a lot of collective action because of the sentiment that nothing you will do will matter. Collective action requires individual action. The major industries don't just pollute for the sake of it, they respond to demand for which we individually share a part of the blame. I can choose to eat steak from pastures made from burned Amazon rainforest, or I can choose more local, less carbon-heavy food. I can choose bottled spring water, or use my tap. I can choose to take shorter showers. I can choose to buy a smaller car and rent when I only really need the horse-power to drag a trailer. I can choose to take public transport a bit more often. I can choose to buy fast-fashion and replace my clothes often, or I can repair or buy repair services from a local vendor. And so on. Not all options are open to everyone, but like no raindrop is responsible for a flood, no person is responsible for anthropogenic climate change.
- amelius 3y ago
  > they respond to demand for which we individually share a part of the blame. I believe a large part of the blame should go to advertising. Advertising works or it wouldn't exist. And it stimulates consumerism by definition. Personal opinion, but kill advertising and you solve a lot of problems.
- cruano 3y ago
  > The major industries don't just pollute for the sake of it, they respond to demand for which we individually share a part of the blame. It seems to me like one could use the same argument regarding slave labor, but somehow we manage to force companies to comply there.
  - Y-bar 3y ago
    In many places across the world it took herculean effort to force that change. But it did not happen because some abstract group of something did cause it to happen. It required major concerted actions, sometimes violent, of many individuals willing to take personal responsibility to change the situation.
lp4vn 3y ago
What terrifying information is she sharing with you?

kibwen 3y ago

One way or the other, people will be doing their part. Might as well get used to consuming less now before contraction forces the issue.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
It’s more about building your life to maximize self sufficiency with the understanding that you will still need to rely on society for some needs. Also living somewhere with low climate risk and high confidence of access to fresh water for the remainder of your life (and that of loved ones, if applicable). When contraction occurs, if you’ve planned properly, it’ll be news you read about, not impact on your life. TLDR Optimize for the expectation of persistent volatility.
- 36933 3y ago
  Where are these places?
  - quonn 3y ago
    Well, there are plenty of maps that show which areas will be impacted more than others.
  - raisedbyninjas 3y ago
    Climate havens, near the great lakes in the US.
  - bmelton 3y ago
    FEMA has a list somewhere, but IIRC, the top of it included places like Buffalo, a few cities in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ann Arbor. Established cities along the great lakes are supposedly best positioned, but I've seen reports indicating that the age of the cities' infrastructure was a weakness for basically every one of the supposed climate havens
  - ejb999 3y ago
    This site is pretty good for checking out the various risks by county or census tract for about 15 different climate risks. https://hazards.fema.gov/nri/map https://hazards.fema.gov/nri/map
- tenpies 3y ago
  Jurisdiction is crucial too. The chances that a Western government will leave you alone during all of this are virtually zero.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    The chances you'll do better elsewhere are worse, unless you're a warlord. I have looked at places off the map for the next 100 years for this purpose. Maybe I'm wrong, where would you go to be self sufficient and ungovernable outside the Western world?
petercooper 3y ago
Ideally, but I wonder if that's how the psychology will play out. People faced with an uncertain future may just as likely throw caution to the wind instead? https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/tiktok-young-workers-doom-spending-b2466149.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/tiktok-young-worker...
bevesce- 3y ago
Why? Why it's not better to enjoy why it lasts?

Diederich 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Adaptation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Adaptation

flir 3y ago
"The agenda includes values of nonviolence, compassion, curiosity and respect, with a framework for constructive action." We're still talking about Humans, right? We are so screwed.

amelius 3y ago

"Doing your part" always seemed like a nice way for the rich to put their heads in the sand. Meanwhile at least 95% of the world population lives from paycheck to paycheck (immediate existential threat versus long term threat) and doesn't have the financial means to buy solar panels, EVs, etc., but also more durable items instead of cheap stuff from China.

kiba 3y ago
No snowflake is single-handedly responsible for the avalanche, plus rich people pollute the most anyway, especially those who live in the west.
- rkuykendall-com 3y ago
  But this is why avalanche safety doesn't involve asking individual snowflakes to change their behavior.

Y-bar 3y ago

> "doing your part" seems embarrassingly naive now. Yes and no. I would even go as far as to say that nihilism of no value in doing the right thing has been one reason we have reach this point -- we have lost a lot of collective action because of the sentiment that nothing you will do will matter. Collective action requires individual action. The major industries don't just pollute for the sake of it, they respond to demand for which we individually share a part of the blame. I can choose to eat steak from pastures made from burned Amazon rainforest, or I can choose more local, less carbon-heavy food. I can choose bottled spring water, or use my tap. I can choose to take shorter showers. I can choose to buy a smaller car and rent when I only really need the horse-power to drag a trailer. I can choose to take public transport a bit more often. I can choose to buy fast-fashion and replace my clothes often, or I can repair or buy repair services from a local vendor. And so on. Not all options are open to everyone, but like no raindrop is responsible for a flood, no person is responsible for anthropogenic climate change.

amelius 3y ago
> they respond to demand for which we individually share a part of the blame. I believe a large part of the blame should go to advertising. Advertising works or it wouldn't exist. And it stimulates consumerism by definition. Personal opinion, but kill advertising and you solve a lot of problems.
cruano 3y ago
> The major industries don't just pollute for the sake of it, they respond to demand for which we individually share a part of the blame. It seems to me like one could use the same argument regarding slave labor, but somehow we manage to force companies to comply there.
- Y-bar 3y ago
  In many places across the world it took herculean effort to force that change. But it did not happen because some abstract group of something did cause it to happen. It required major concerted actions, sometimes violent, of many individuals willing to take personal responsibility to change the situation.

lp4vn 3y ago

What terrifying information is she sharing with you?