7 ms·

Asking the IRS to do your taxes is like asking the fox how to guard your henhouse. You might want a second opinion.

by travoc 3y ago

Gratuity1901 3y ago
Grover Norquist?
cornstalks 3y ago
Asking the IRS to pre-fill your taxes is totally reasonable. What's crazy is that they have all this information and have already computed how much tax I owe, but won't tell me what that is, and if I get it wrong or forget something then I'm both legally and financially liable. You can still get a second opinion with pre-filled taxes.
- imgabe 3y ago
  The liability for making a simple honest mistake is greatly overstated. In most cases the IRS sends you a letter explaining the mistake and asks you to send the additional payment (or sends you the additional refund) and if you address it in a timely manner there’s no penalty or anything. The meme about “oh I forgot to carry the one now I’m going to jail” is just Internet hyperbole.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Often times you correct it with more paper work. One year, my foreign tax deduction didn’t get filed for some reason (I was doing my own taxes by hand and sending in the forms), so I was hit with a huge tax bill of $30k or so. Then I found out I handled my non-resident wife wrong, so amend 1040X wait for ITIN, etc…it was kind of a mess. I wound up ahead, the IRS owing me instead. They were quite courteous about it on the phone.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    This is my experience as well. The IRS generally knows that mistakes happen, and they generally don't really seem interested in criminally punishing small things. Normally they assess a small penalty payment at worst, and set you up with a payment plan if you don't have the money.
- notfed 3y ago
  I've always wondered if there's some intentional poker going on here: if the IRS shows you your report first, and you realize they've made a mistake to your advantage, you're almost certainly less likely to report it...right?
- ianburrell 3y ago
  They will tell you what they have. You can request your tax records including what they think you owe and what you earned. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/get-transcript https://www.irs.gov/individuals/get-transcript
  - cornstalks 3y ago
    But can I do that before I file taxes? Maybe I've misunderstood but I thought this is only available after I file taxes: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/transcript-availability https://www.irs.gov/individuals/transcript-availability
- teraflop 3y ago
  > What's crazy is that they have all this information and have already computed how much tax I owe This is not really accurate. If you're a typical employee, IRS has a pretty good idea of your income, which is just one of the many factors that goes into calculating your tax. In particular, the IRS doesn't independently know most of the things that could cause you to get tax deductions, like whether you got married since last year, or you moved out of your parents' house and started living on your own, or you're taking care of a child, or you had self-employment expenses, or you bought textbooks for your college classes, or you donated to charity, or you paid expensive medical bills, etc.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    They also don’t know about the adjusted cost basis for those RSUs sold to pay for the ordinary income tax of an RSU grant.
  - cornstalks 3y ago
    To be fair, I said "how much tax I owe," not how much tax you (or others) owe. I don't have any creative deductions. And I expect many others only have one or two "interesting" deductions to add. I haven't actually measured this but I honestly expect >95% of what I enter into my tax return is information they already have.
    - buffington 3y ago
      Do they know how much you'll spend on sales tax for a given tax year? How much you'll pay out of pocket for health expenses? Do you? These are not "interesting", but nearly everyone has 'em, and the IRS cannot know, without bending space time, how much you'll owe because of those deductions (assuming an itemized deduction, though they're still in play either way because they can help tip the balance between taking a standard or itemized deductions).
      - BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
        > assuming an itemized deduction Only 13% of all US federal tax filings each year itemize deductions. That means it would help the vast majority of filers and not harm the rest in any way whatsoever. Weird thing to be against if someone isn't misanthropic.
grecy 3y ago
The IRS already "does" your taxes. They internally compute what you owe, and if what you submit doesn't add up, they dig deeper.
- justrealist 3y ago
  That's really not true and it's important to understand the distinction. They know a lower bound on how much income you should be reporting. They have no idea how many dependents you have, houses you sold, charity you donated, foreign income you made, etc etc etc. There are hundreds of other things they don't know which massively affect what you owe. If they got a W-4 for you and you don't report it, yes you're f'd. But they in no way know how much you owe.
  - add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
    In my experience people really love the "The IRS already knows how much you owe" meme and you'll never get much more than downvotes for clarifying the truth of it. In a better world our taxes could be simpler, but for now let's do our taxes the way they do need to be done.
  - singron 3y ago
    Most people have the same filing status and number of dependents as the previous year, just have W2 and 1099 income already reported to the IRS, and take the standard deduction. For most people, they can tell you what you owe. If it's wrong, you can tell them your dependents or filing status changed and get a new form. If you have a weird situation the IRS doesn't know about, you can still do your own taxes, but that's not most people.
  - BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
    > They have no idea how many dependents you have, houses you sold, charity you donated, foreign income you made, etc etc etc. Generally speaking, the government does in fact know exactly what houses you sold and dependents you have. Those are both matters of public record and registered with the state. How do you think cities assess property taxes? And if you think that charitable donations and foreign income make any kind of dent for 99% of all taxpayers, you're living in a very weird bubble. 87% of all filings take the standard deduction in any given year for a reason.
Angostura 3y ago
You should be free to get both their opinion for free - and a second opinion if you really want to pay for it, surely?
jjav 3y ago
> Asking the IRS to do your taxes is like asking the fox how to guard your henhouse. Remember, the IRS is already computing your taxes behind the scenes based on all the information they have. If you report an answer different from what they computed, you get audited.

Asking the IRS to do your taxes is like asking the fox how to guard your henhouse. You might want a second opinion.

by travoc 3y ago

Asking the IRS to do your taxes is like asking the fox how to guard your henhouse. You might want a second opinion.

Gratuity1901 3y ago

Grover Norquist?

cornstalks 3y ago

Asking the IRS to pre-fill your taxes is totally reasonable. What's crazy is that they have all this information and have already computed how much tax I owe, but won't tell me what that is, and if I get it wrong or forget something then I'm both legally and financially liable. You can still get a second opinion with pre-filled taxes.

imgabe 3y ago
The liability for making a simple honest mistake is greatly overstated. In most cases the IRS sends you a letter explaining the mistake and asks you to send the additional payment (or sends you the additional refund) and if you address it in a timely manner there’s no penalty or anything. The meme about “oh I forgot to carry the one now I’m going to jail” is just Internet hyperbole.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Often times you correct it with more paper work. One year, my foreign tax deduction didn’t get filed for some reason (I was doing my own taxes by hand and sending in the forms), so I was hit with a huge tax bill of $30k or so. Then I found out I handled my non-resident wife wrong, so amend 1040X wait for ITIN, etc…it was kind of a mess. I wound up ahead, the IRS owing me instead. They were quite courteous about it on the phone.
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  This is my experience as well. The IRS generally knows that mistakes happen, and they generally don't really seem interested in criminally punishing small things. Normally they assess a small penalty payment at worst, and set you up with a payment plan if you don't have the money.
notfed 3y ago
I've always wondered if there's some intentional poker going on here: if the IRS shows you your report first, and you realize they've made a mistake to your advantage, you're almost certainly less likely to report it...right?
ianburrell 3y ago
They will tell you what they have. You can request your tax records including what they think you owe and what you earned. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/get-transcript https://www.irs.gov/individuals/get-transcript
- cornstalks 3y ago
  But can I do that before I file taxes? Maybe I've misunderstood but I thought this is only available after I file taxes: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/transcript-availability https://www.irs.gov/individuals/transcript-availability
teraflop 3y ago
> What's crazy is that they have all this information and have already computed how much tax I owe This is not really accurate. If you're a typical employee, IRS has a pretty good idea of your income, which is just one of the many factors that goes into calculating your tax. In particular, the IRS doesn't independently know most of the things that could cause you to get tax deductions, like whether you got married since last year, or you moved out of your parents' house and started living on your own, or you're taking care of a child, or you had self-employment expenses, or you bought textbooks for your college classes, or you donated to charity, or you paid expensive medical bills, etc.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  They also don’t know about the adjusted cost basis for those RSUs sold to pay for the ordinary income tax of an RSU grant.
- cornstalks 3y ago
  To be fair, I said "how much tax I owe," not how much tax you (or others) owe. I don't have any creative deductions. And I expect many others only have one or two "interesting" deductions to add. I haven't actually measured this but I honestly expect >95% of what I enter into my tax return is information they already have.
  - buffington 3y ago
    Do they know how much you'll spend on sales tax for a given tax year? How much you'll pay out of pocket for health expenses? Do you? These are not "interesting", but nearly everyone has 'em, and the IRS cannot know, without bending space time, how much you'll owe because of those deductions (assuming an itemized deduction, though they're still in play either way because they can help tip the balance between taking a standard or itemized deductions).
    - BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
      > assuming an itemized deduction Only 13% of all US federal tax filings each year itemize deductions. That means it would help the vast majority of filers and not harm the rest in any way whatsoever. Weird thing to be against if someone isn't misanthropic.

grecy 3y ago

The IRS already "does" your taxes. They internally compute what you owe, and if what you submit doesn't add up, they dig deeper.

justrealist 3y ago
That's really not true and it's important to understand the distinction. They know a lower bound on how much income you should be reporting. They have no idea how many dependents you have, houses you sold, charity you donated, foreign income you made, etc etc etc. There are hundreds of other things they don't know which massively affect what you owe. If they got a W-4 for you and you don't report it, yes you're f'd. But they in no way know how much you owe.
- add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
  In my experience people really love the "The IRS already knows how much you owe" meme and you'll never get much more than downvotes for clarifying the truth of it. In a better world our taxes could be simpler, but for now let's do our taxes the way they do need to be done.
- singron 3y ago
  Most people have the same filing status and number of dependents as the previous year, just have W2 and 1099 income already reported to the IRS, and take the standard deduction. For most people, they can tell you what you owe. If it's wrong, you can tell them your dependents or filing status changed and get a new form. If you have a weird situation the IRS doesn't know about, you can still do your own taxes, but that's not most people.
- BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
  > They have no idea how many dependents you have, houses you sold, charity you donated, foreign income you made, etc etc etc. Generally speaking, the government does in fact know exactly what houses you sold and dependents you have. Those are both matters of public record and registered with the state. How do you think cities assess property taxes? And if you think that charitable donations and foreign income make any kind of dent for 99% of all taxpayers, you're living in a very weird bubble. 87% of all filings take the standard deduction in any given year for a reason.

Angostura 3y ago

You should be free to get both their opinion for free - and a second opinion if you really want to pay for it, surely?

jjav 3y ago

> Asking the IRS to do your taxes is like asking the fox how to guard your henhouse. Remember, the IRS is already computing your taxes behind the scenes based on all the information they have. If you report an answer different from what they computed, you get audited.