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DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it
- Spodera 3y agoForum servers are being overloaded, from DEF CON's homepage: After a great 25 year relationship Caesars abruptly terminated their contract with DEF CON, leaving us with no venue for DC 32, and just about seven months to Con! We don’t know why Caesars canceled us, they won’t say beyond it being a strategy change and it is not related to anything that DEF CON or our community has done. This kind of no-notice cancellation of a contract is unheard of in the conference business. The parting is confusing, but amicable. TL;DR - DEF CON 32 will still be August 8-11 2024, but now held at the Las Vegas Convention Center (LVCC) with workshops and training at the Sahara.
- kqr2 3y agoWhat happens to all the previous Caesar hotel bookings? Have they negotiated with other hotels for a conference rate?
- Spodera 3y agoIf you already have a reservation at a Caesars property, from what I saw you can keep it, you'll just have to find transportation to LVCC via the monorail or other means. Not sure on transfers. They have negotiated with Sahara on a rate and are looking to add more.
- kstrauser 3y agoThat “just” is doing some heavy lifting. It was a minor hassle running back and forth from the Forum to Flamingo to pick stuff up and drop it off. Commuting from strip hotels to LVCC is going to be a pain in the ass.
- dylan604 3y agoAnd yet every year the attendees at other large conventions like NAB have no issues with this.
- aaravchen 3y agoFrom the forums (paraphrased): You can cancel up to 72 hours before the reservation. New room blocks are still being negotiated and will be posted at (link) as they become available. Please help us negotiate rates by booking rooms in our reserved blocks.
- tkems 3y agoI find this strange but not surprising. I've heard of speed bumps in the past related to 'hackers in town' and I wouldn't be surprised if it comes out later that it had something to do with it, even if unfounded. I think overall, having that many 'hackers' in town makes people overly paranoid. <tinfoil hat> I wonder if the ransomware incident last year played a role in this decision? [0] I'm guessing they wouldn't announce it for fear of boycott, but who knows. </tinfoil hat> [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/14/caesars-paid-millions-in-ransom-to-cybercrime-group-prior-to-mgm-hack.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/14/caesars-paid-millions-in-ran...
- sircastor 3y ago> <tinfoil hat> I wonder if the ransomware incident last year played a role in this decision? This makes more sense to me than the other explanations. Probably coupled with an underinformed general manager or company president.
- cududa 3y agoThat’s probably not even tin foil hat-y. I’d wager a bet that the perpetrators of the hack had visited Cesar’s during defcon
- mrandish 3y agoI suspect Caesar's dropped DEF CON because the DEF CON attendees likely have a fairly low "avg revenue per attendee" yield because fewer of them gamble compared to the avg Vegas conference attendee. They also probably spend less on high-end restaurant dining and bar drinking inside the hotel. Since the pandemic Vegas has had a pretty strong resurgence in general and this may be a sign that Caesar's is doing well enough they've decided there are higher-revenue guests they can put in those rooms — even in the doldrums of August (a traditionally slow month for Vegas tourism). I happen to regularly attend an unrelated, non-tech conference that's always right around the same week as DEF CON. That conference also happens to attract attendees who don't gamble or spend much at the hotel other than room costs. The reason the conference organizer chooses August is they get better discounts on their costs from the hotel in exchange for filling up rooms that would otherwise be empty (except this hotel is lower-end and cheaper than Caesar's). This works out because unlike Caesar's this hotel is far off the strip and doesn't have nearly as much dining or gambling revenue potential anyway.
- nimos 3y agoI doubt they would cancel a contract already in place for that reason. Not renew the contract - sure. But canceling an already scheduled event because of low revenue per guest doesn't seem very likely to me? Or maybe it was some sort of ongoing agreement and canceling it was effectively "not renewing".
- johnnyanmac 3y ago>But canceling an already scheduled event because of low revenue per guest doesn't seem very likely to me? Not to be TOO snarky, but given how quickly corporate cancels employee labor despite rising revenue, it would not surprise me for other corporate to also cancel "low paying customers" for "high paying customers". Loyalty is beyond dead so cancelling a contract is just a cost of business if they feel the alternative gives more money.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago> it would not surprise me for other corporate to also cancel "low paying customers" for "high paying customers" At least going by all the entrepreneurship articles I've read over the decade, "firing your customers" is a term of art, and a recommended approach for dealing with unprofitable and/or annoying customers - so I guess this shouldn't be surprising. > Loyalty is beyond dead so cancelling a contract is just a cost of business if they feel the alternative gives more money. Not to be TOO snarky, but that's kind of the point of contracts - contract cancellation terms aren't an "or else..." threat, but rather an agreed upon exit strategy. Termination fines aren't punishment, they're compensation for inconvenience.
- justina20 3y ago[dead]
- kqr2 3y agoAlso DEF CON was canceled, but we uncanceled it : https://www.reddit.com/r/Defcon/comments/1aj6ixn/def_con_was_canceled_but_we_uncanceled_it/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Defcon/comments/1aj6ixn/def_con_was...
- sva_ 3y agoSo they're making a marketing campaign out of it with 'un-canceled' t-shirts https://shop.defcon.org/ https://shop.defcon.org/
- V-eHGsd_ 3y agoi'm pretty sure "defcon is cancelled" is an _ooooold_ meme
- merlincorey 3y agoIt was Defcon 6 if I'm not mistaken and someone actually didn't go because of it which is how it became a meme. Here's at least one source corroborating that[0]: > "I think it's from around DC6 and is a reference to our only near brush with cancellation at the Monte Carlo for DC4," Def Con spokesperson Darington Forbes wrote me in an email. "I wish I had more to tell you—since it happened seventeen or so years ago my info is murky. Something about a casino mogul preferring we not use the Monte Carlo, threats of legal action." > @ivydigital DEF CON - cancelled annually for over 20 years > — Rich Trouton (@rtrouton) July 31, 2015 [0] https://www.vice.com/en/article/ezvez4/def-con-is-cancelled-again https://www.vice.com/en/article/ezvez4/def-con-is-cancelled-...
- throwawaaarrgh 3y agoChrist I'm old. I still remember when it was at the AP. Although I've left that part of my life behind, I'm glad DEF CON is still around.
- p-e-w 3y ago> This kind of no-notice cancellation of a contract is unheard of in the conference business. That's a big claim to make. Can someone with relevant experience confirm whether this is true?
- caymanjim 3y agoIt's seven months away. It's not like it's seven weeks.
- QuinnyPig 3y agoFor a conference at this scale, there's not a huge difference between seven weeks and seven months.
- lmm 3y agoThere's a huge difference even at this scale. Seven months was apparently long enough for them to make arrangements to hold it at another venue nearby (I'm sure rearranging it is/will be a lot of hard work, but they're doing it); would seven weeks have been?
- tptacek 3y agoI mean, they've been running this event, which has topped 20k attendees, for something like 30 years. So one entity with the relevant experience is... them?
- dclowd9901 3y agoI don’t think it’s that bold of a claim. Organizers ask attendees to spend a lot of money to attend, buy lodging and everything else, not to mention pay a lot to organize and it takes a lot of time and effort to line up all the required facilities. I’ve been part of organizing at least a few big events and if we had a late stage hard cancellation, there probably would’ve been lawsuits.
- ghaff 3y agoIn 20+ years of attending events events regularly I have never heard of a venue change on relatively short notice. In fact to the degree some conference moves from, say, SF to Vegas, they usually announce that at the previous year's conference.
- PedroBatista 3y agoNot a fan of what DEF CON has become in the last years, so I selfishly hope it somehow "goes away" and reborn in a more technical and actual hacker note. Too many "security researchers", "staff engineers" and people playing politics. But I suspect they will have no problem finding another venue, sponsor money has been flowing quite well, so I wish them well.
- tptacek 3y agoThere are dozens of other conferences that do anything else you want a security conference to do. The point of Defcon at this point is to be the giant annual social event.
- rockskon 3y agoWell it's not going to do so well for that at the LVCC given the distance away from hotel parties.
- tptacek 3y agoIt was famously at Alexis Park for years, which might as well be the moon if you're at Caesar's.
- busterarm 3y agoAnd when it was at AP maybe 5000 people were attending? Today it's like 25k. And AP was tolerant of people treating their property like garbage. Caesars' certainly doesn't.
- getoffmyyawn 3y agoI started going to def con before the AP and I feel now that the AP were def con's golden years. At least for what I like best about it. It's nice that it has continued to grow and reach more people but it has also changed a lot from what it used to be to what it is now.
- busterarm 3y ago
- exogeny 3y agoShould have played more blackjack, nerdos!
- nodesocket 3y agoSir you have 20... Hit me!
- caymanjim 3y agoI find it hilarious that defcon.org can't handle the traffic from being on HN.
- taywrobel 3y agoWithout robust and easily scaled infrastructure in place ahead of time, an organic DDOS is one of the most difficult situations to mitigate. Not much can be done in terms of traffic shaping, rate limiting, or bot detection.
- caymanjim 3y agoI agree. Protecting against DDoS attacks is incredibly difficult. I'm just enjoying the irony of Def Con, the premiere computer security and hacking convention, not being able to handle traffic. To be fair, I don't think they crashed; I saw a "sorry too much traffic try later" type message. Still amuses me.
- loriverkutya 3y agoTo me this means they decided not to handle the traffic instead of can’t handle it.
- komali2 3y agoI guess it's funny, but the attendees don't necessarily represent the organizers. The best hackers in the world may be in the building during Defcon but I don't think the Defcon organization itself necessarily employs them.
- ranger_danger 3y agothe current way to most effectively get around DDoS seems to be using a proof-of-work based frontend run on as many revolving reverse proxies around the world as you can afford. this is what kiwifarms does. seems pretty effective and a lot cheaper than what the people bankrolling the attacks on them are spending.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
- subcosmos 3y agoHypothesis : Result of last years bomb-scare and evacuation?
- alberth 3y agoOr Caesar's being hacked last year and a belief (right/wrong/indifferent) that they don’t want to be hosting the kind of folks who could do that. https://www.securityweek.com/caesars-confirms-ransomware-hack-stolen-loyalty-program-database/ https://www.securityweek.com/caesars-confirms-ransomware-hac...
- wkat4242 3y agoIt's really much more likely the people that are in the business of defending against just that.
- xena 3y agoReminds me that I need to make my DEF CON travel plans. Thanks for the reminder!
- datadrivenangel 3y agoSo what are the consequences for Caesars doing this? It seems like this will cause a lot of extra work and maybe damages for DEF CON's organizers.
- brcmthrowaway 3y agoI'm surprised any hacker of any standing would want to give the corrupt state of Nevada any tax money whatsoever.
- elicksaur 3y agoThis kind of comment on HN is always fascinating. Is it just simple trolling? Is it cosplay? Is it someone new (or old) to “hacking” sincerely trying to “no true scotsman” attending def con?
- wkat4242 3y agoI have to say as a European the choice of location has always puzzled me. Corporate interests basically run las vegas, I find it a really odd choice for such a free-thinking anti-establishment community.
- px43 3y agoDEF CON started as a bunch of teenagers running away from home to get ridiculously drunk and trash some place, and it hasn't changed much. Vegas was the perfect choice. It was a party. Getting to smash up an obscene capitalist hellhole was a key perk, and still is to this day.
- wkat4242 3y agoAhh I see. This way it makes a lot more sense, thanks for the explanation :) I go to a lot of European hacker parties/camps and I can certainly recognise the mindset you mention (and I identify with that mindset as well even though I work in a corporate job). For this reason Las Vegas made no sense to me but in light of your comment it does now. And yeah getting ridiculously drunk is definitely part of the experience :D
- nextlevelwizard 3y ago>And yeah getting ridiculously drunk is definitely part of the experience :D Since we are talking about stuff that we don't think should be associated with hacking this is my own pet peeve. What does "getting drunk" have to do with hacking? And why is it always "absolutely smashed" or "ridiculously drunk". I get that most hacker types are shy introverts and couple drinks makes things more fun and socially fluid, but why does it need to go to hangover(s)? 9 This is primary reason which keeps me away from many "hacking camps", they are cool for couple hours, but as the sun goes down things just get sketchy and boring when I have to take care of bunch of drunk strangers.
- MarkSweep 3y ago> a proper food court Looking on the bright side, having a better option for a snack or meal on site would be nice. It was slim pickings in 2023.
- belter 3y agoNext Year's DEFCON Keynote... "How We Hacked Caesar's Booking System"
- technick 3y agoAbsolutely, I'm already seeing some chatter from groups that want to get "even" with Caesars for displacing a 25 year tradition for strategy. I hope they have some good defenses installed now that you've pissed off no less than 10k infosec people.
- b33j0r 3y agoHaha, would you want ESP32 hackers at your venue? Breaking into wifi and rooms to make tech points? Hosting this never made sense.
- bboygravity 3y agoI smell potential for the hotel to get (free) help to become the most cybersecure hotel in the world.
- junon 3y agoThat's not what's happening.
- Astraco 3y agoWhat's an 'ESP32 hacker'?
- RIMR 3y agoBasically a script kiddie with an ESP32 SOC deauthing WiFi and other radio protocols. Probably more likely to see them with a Flipper these days. Honestly though, if your venue gets turned upside down by a Flipper, you should probably change a few things...
- helpfulclippy 3y agoI wonder if Caesars' cybersecurity insurer had an opinion about writing a policy for a casino resort that hosts something like DEFCON, especially after the MGM hack.
- quickthrower2 3y agoLemonade!
- camdenlock 3y ago[flagged]
- DaSHacka 3y agoWhy are those mutually exclusive?
- DonHopkins 3y agoHe's asking because he wants to sexually harass and assault women, and he wants to know if there's an official policy against it.
- camdenlock 3y agoI’m gay.
- reppno 3y agoSounds more like what you desire, to be honest. Creepy old man.
- camdenlock 3y agoSocial justice ideology doesn’t share the stage.
- hipadev23 3y agoAfter last year, Caesars likely has a large insurance policy covering against ransomware attacks. That policy probably says something along the lines of "valid as long as you don't knowingly invite tens of thousands of hackers to your property"
- spacebacon 3y agoIt’s a honey pot. Antagonize “the world’s best hackers” to test their post MGM/Ceasars attack security posture. Someone probably convinced them their new fancy XDR is hacker proof and they are playing for skins now.
- killjoywashere 3y agoYou know, why the fuck is DEFCON in August, in Vegas? Like, you know a nice place to visit in August? Kodiak, Alaska. Portsmouth, Maine. Sydney. List of places I would never want to visit in August? Vegas. Houston. Vegas. New Orleans. Vegas. Mumbai? Maybe. Baghdad? Definitely not. Also, Vegas. My friends in Christ, why, does anyone, think Vegas is a good idea in August?
- busterarm 3y agoVegas is great in August. It might be super hot but it's also dry. Whenever I go out to DEF CON, I take a day to go out quadding around the desert and shoot some guns outdoors. The whole damn strip is air conditioned and misted so it's not really a problem. A few years back I participated in a scavenger hunt during DEF CON and it was taxing but I would do it again. New Orleans is hell on earth that time of year though -- never again.
- jstarfish 3y ago> New Orleans is hell on earth that time of year though -- never again. I thought the same until visiting Kyoto and Rome in August.
- ramraj07 3y agoI can stay in an acceptable room for two digit dollars a night in Vegas. That’s not true even in Mumbai. Cheap flights too.
- wkat4242 3y agoSydney is pretty cold in August. Definitely not the time of year to be there.
- rekoil 3y agoPretty sure that was the entire point.
- toast0 3y agoI don't care to go to Las Vegas, and I don't care to go to DEFCON, but you can easily fly from anywhere to Las Vegas, any time of year. (Subject to US visa issues, of course) Others have said August is off-peak for Vegas (perhaps because of the weather), which means its a good time for a conference as space should be less expensive.
- mmaunder 3y agoBomb threat last year caused evacuation: https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/14/def_con_bomb_scare/ https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/14/def_con_bomb_scare/ In 2018 we had aggressive room searches post the Vegas shooting that caused a lot of friction: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/security-theater-meets-def-con-as-room-searches-spark-controversy/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/security-theater... Point being that it’s been a rough ride over the last few years. Combine that with corporate events probably being far more lucrative for Caesars I.e suits drink and gamble harder than geeks - I’m not surprised by this. TBH my team and I skipped DEF CON last year and threw our own event in Banff instead because DEF CON has become quite boring with long lines and a Groundhog Day feel to it. If you’re looking for a proper con check out a local B-sides or a smaller legit con like Shmoocon.
- merlincorey 3y agoThe bomb threat wasn't even related to Defcon, though. I heard it both from Dark Tangent and several high level Goons.
- gwill 3y agowhat was it related to? I thought someone reported a suspicious bag in the venue.
- asynchronous 3y agoIt was someone called in “a suspicious backpack with wires” which is absolutely hilarious at DEF CON
- Sohcahtoa82 3y agoHah...that could easily have been MY backpack. When I'm at DEFCON, I bring a fun little device. It's an ESP8266 that constantly listens for WiFi probes coming from people's mobile devices. It then displays the SSID (the network name) on a scrolling LED text display. I keep it plugged into one of those Anker battery banks. 10,000 mAh will power it for ~16 hours, so it lasts the entire day.
- hartator 3y agoTo be honest, requiring an ID and a proof of vaccination to attend was against the anonymity principle of the convention in the first place.
- px43 3y agoIn 2021 I paid in cash, showed my physical ID and vax card, and was on my way with my badge. Nothing about the exchange was recorded. They take privacy incredibly seriously, especially the goons working registration. There was also basically no COVID that year, despite DEF CON happening right during the Delta outbreak. A big nursing conference the week before got hit hard with Delta, but DEF CON took that shit seriously, and it worked well. Pretty sure there was no vax check in 2022 and 2023, and I do know some people who got COVID in those years, but people who took decent precautions were generally able to dodge it.
- Sohcahtoa82 3y agoThat was only for a single event. DEFCON no longer requires proof of vaccination or ID. And as the other commenter said, the information wasn't recorded. Also, the majority of DEFCON attendees no longer care about being anonymous. It's not this secret underground thing. Many employers pay for their security staff to go to DEFCON. For a few years now, you can even pre-pay for your ticket online with a credit card which makes getting reimbursed for your ticket a fuckton easier. Also means you don't have to carry $500 in cash.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- nickchuck 3y agoI bet it was the googly eyes
- wkat4242 3y agoToo bad. Now I will definitely never go there. My work sometimes gets free tickets for black hat but that's a totally boring business conference. Not worth going to on its own. I hate mingling with sales suits, I'm a real techie. Def con was something I would be looking forward to and if my work paid for black hat I could have stayed the extra days to go there.
- abnercoimbre 3y agoThis is me being opportunistic, but I'm an organizer for indie tech conferences [0]. We're not selling tickets with set venue dates yet (although a fundraiser is happening.) If nothing else, you might join the newsletter to see if it's your cup of tea later in the year. [0] https://handmadecities.com https://handmadecities.com
- wkat4242 3y agoThanks! I'm very unlikely to fly to the US for conferences though (in fact I've never been there in my life!). Especially to Seattle as it's so far away from me in Europe. I'm in Spain which is pretty much a low-wage country so things like intercontinental flights and foreign hotels are prohibitively expensive. Boston might be an option if it just happens to be around a time I might visit for work (but again I've never been there in my life so it's not all that likely even though we have a major office there).
- abnercoimbre 3y agoUnderstood. Well, never say never! Worst case you can attend remotely – we’re well-known for treating online attendees as first-class citizens. In any case, thank you for entertaining the idea :)
- bentley 3y agoDEF CON hasn’t been canceled, it’s just changed venues.
- tptacek 3y ago
- dash488 3y agoAfter the impact of the MGM hack this year Cesars probably revisited their insurance on getting compromised. After the auditors and lawyers looked at all the risks they came across DEF CON and said no because of the wording of how DEF CON is marketed. Their choice was probably to drop them or loose coverage. DEF CON is listed as a "hacker convention held annually in Las Vegas, Nevada." where Blackhat is "Black Hat is an internationally recognized cybersecurity event series providing the most technical and relevant information security..." I imagine places like the convention center cant afford or care about insurance at this level.
- wkat4242 3y agoBlack hat is just one giant bunch of sales pitches. No I haven't been there but I've had to sift through recordings that my boss (who did attend) wanted me to look at because he was too drunk himself to do a proper evaluation. It doesn't provide information, it just provides sales suits a chance to blow their hot air :P If I'd ever go there it would just be an excuse to go to vegas to see DEF CON as well :P I work in security but I have no time for corporatism and sales bullshit. Edit: I know it's a bit of a hot take but I've been to so many conferences where sales goons spew all the pretty pictures and then later when we actually got our hands on the product it turned out that it couldn't do half the stuff that was promised. Or there were other weaknesses like excruciatingly bad support. I've become very cynical due to this.
- nopeYouAreWrong 3y agoif we're going with hot takes, I've watched a lot of DefCon vids and many presenters come off as outlandish arrogant. not simply smug, more "I am levitating above the normies."
- jstarfish 3y agoThat's not specific to presenters; there's a lot of insecurity (no pun intended) on parade in this industry. The sort of people who can bridge air-gapped networks using bubblegum and popsicle sticks tend not to minor in human relations. Just read it as showmanship. They're trying to be over the top for the sake of performance.
- mynameisnoone 3y agoI haven't been since DEF CON 19. Count me out. LVCC is even less cool than Caesars and it's a mile from the strip. It's only selling point is the Loop.[0] In the past, it was convenient to book at Caesars, or nearby at the Bellagio or Venetian-Palazzo. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Convention_Center_Loop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Convention_Center_Lo...
- justinzollars 3y agoCaesars canceled DEF CON could it be because CaesarsPalace was hacked this year? I doubt they did it?
- aestetix 3y agoEarly DefCons were on the strip, and for reasons never officially made public, DefCon got banned from the strip. AFAIU, that's why it was in the Alexis Park for many years. I was actually surprised when I learned it was allowed back onto the strip. Given the high rate of incidents and the surface area for attack, I completely understand why Caesar's dropped them. What I don't get is how they allowed DefCon back onto the strip in the first place.
- throwawaaarrgh 3y agoThe same reason any other gaggle of degenerates are allowed in Las Vegas: Money.
- PointyFluff 3y ago[dead]
- Halan 3y agoStop making conferences in Las Vegas is the most depressing place to visit
- scoutt 3y ago> We need a space that can handle an event our size, and configurable enough to accommodate our content. I love this sounds like a pun about loading/executing a payload.
- Kye 3y agoNow they have another thing in common with furry conventions! (tech people, furries, nonprofit, hotels randomly cancelling contracts)
- orbit7 3y agoTake it international new venue each year, maybe London?
- rekoil 3y agoStockholm please!
- anticensor 3y agoIstanbul please.
- sylens 3y agoThis may be a blessing in disguise. DEF CON has grown massively to the point where the number of attendees who want to go to the various villages all day equals or even surpasses the attendees interested in the main talks. However, those villages have historically been given very small spaces. This past DEF CON, the Cloud Securitt village had a line down the hallway and escalator pretty much all of Friday and Saturday. Even the vendor area had to be carefully managed to ensure not too many people were inside at the same time. Hope this allows them to really spread their wings a bit more.
- Sohcahtoa82 3y agoYeah, this might actually change my mind about skipping DEFCON. I started going to DEFCON in 2017 (DEFCON 25). After last year's event, I had decided I wasn't going to go anymore. The villages were always extremely crowded, so trying to actually participate would be a huge wait. The talks were nice, but I can just watch them on YouTube a month or so later. Hacker Jeopardy is always a blast, but I'm not going to spend $2,500 to fly and stay in Vegas just for that. The fact that Red Team village would only be given this tiny conference room with only like 50 chairs to listen to talks was just bullshit. If the new venue has more room and solves all my complaints, maybe I'll still go.
- 0xBDB 3y agoI would say the blessing isn't even in disguise. I've gone twice, in 2017 and last year, and last year the crowds in the main hallways and village lines were suffocating and I'm not usually claustrophobic. An extra couple of hundred thousand square feet is a big deal and should have happened regardless. I just feel bad for the folks who have to make it happen in 7 months.
- rurban 3y agoInteresting that they didn't get the MGM, the biggest and cheapest strip hotel, but the LVCC. Still ok
- ghaff 3y agoSort of a weird story. I have never heard of a convention venue randomly canceling a conference with less than a year to go and I was very involved with events at one point. Obviously lots of atypical stuff happened during COVID but I've literally never seen something along these lines as it supposedly went down. Barring some anomalous event, conference venues don't suddenly decide some event just isn't a good deal for them.
- exabrial 3y agoThe problem is the casino doesn't want a bunch of hackers playing casino games the way the hackers want to play them...
- Sohcahtoa82 3y agoIf hackers could hack casino games, they would have fixed the hacks a long time ago.
- gaws 3y ago> We don’t know why Caesars canceled us, they won’t say beyond it being a strategy change and it is not related to anything that DEF CON or our community has done. This kind of no-notice cancellation of a contract is unheard of in the conference business. The parting is confusing, but amicable. It is absolutely related to DEF CON. Remember that Caesars suffered a massively embarrassing hack in September, and it is highly likely the top brass and investors don't want any association with hackers from an image and security standpoint, especially in the form of hosting a conference that brings tens of thousands of them to the hotel.
- asynchronous 3y agoYeah that is the unspoken truth here, MGM took way too big of a hit this last year from that for it not to impact the hacker summer camp.
- mesozoic 3y agoDon't expect much from that food court unless it's improved a lot over the last few years.
- throwawaaarrgh 3y agoThe only food worth the trek is the Toxic BBQ
- fennecfoxy 3y agoAs a furry, there's one thing I haven't seen discussed; maybe this is about extracting more revenue from higher paying customers, but I feel like it's probably a sacrifice of revenue in favour of brand image/perception. Perhaps they no longer want to be known for being the place where the "weirdos" are bouncing around the hallways. A la the poor normies staying at a hotel during a fur convention, or trying to get into the bar during a meet (though the whole place is often hired out by us; we _definitely_ provide enough alcohol revenue)