3 ms·

well at some point, long distance wifi is just a 4G/5G antenna of course the protocol is not the same, but it's not very different either 4g/5g might also hav

by jokoon 3y ago

well at some point, long distance wifi is just a 4G/5G antenna of course the protocol is not the same, but it's not very different either 4g/5g might also have techniques to improve connectivity in a 3km radius when you have buildings and so many other problematic things, while wifi was designed for building interiors. I don't know how expensive is a cheap 5G antenna, but seems like it's a tech designed for longer distance, so why use wifi?

ComputerGuru 3y ago
Because the frequency doesn’t require a license and its use won’t land you in jail?
- transcriptase 3y ago
  Yeah, there are very few frequency ranges where you don’t need to be licensed and meet regulations that generally prevent a given idea from working even if technically possible.
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    Well in pretty much all cases you need to meet regulations. The difference is some bands allow operation without type acceptance at very low power limits.
ianburrell 3y ago
I think what we need is cheap 4G or 5G microcells. The difference between Wifi and 4G/5G is that 4G/5G requires lots of infrastructure to run. Then need a non-profit provider. Let's anyone sign up and manage cells. It runs in the CBRS bands. It is open to anyone. Although, might be commercial opportunity to restrict access for businesses and households.
transpute 3y ago
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317433640_Using_UNII-3_Wi-Fi_Frequencies_to_Establish_Long_Distance_Point-to-Point_Links_Experimental_Validation https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317433640_Using_UNI... > This paper demonstrates the use of Unlicensed National Information Infrastructure (UNII-3), 5.725-5.825GHz, Wi-Fi frequencies, in the IEEE802.11a/n standard ... A link distance of 24.3 kilometers, the longest so far, has been achieved. An average peak throughput of 98.4Mbps has been observed ... using a TDMA based Wi-Fi radio overcomes the fundamental challenges associated with the use of the off-the-shelf Wi-Fi radio whose Media access layer is based on CDMA/CA MAC protocol. 2021, "Open-source private LTE and 5G networks", 600+ comments, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27946947 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27946947
aeonik 3y ago
I'm not an expert in 5G, but I was under the impression that the antennas and protocol support far more advanced beamforming than is available to other wireless tech. I remember reading somewhere that it has a lot on common with phased array radar systems. Here is a Wikipedia link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_antenna https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_antenna What I can't square away is I also remember learning about beamforming in my Wireless engineering course, and I thought WiFi had some similar too. But for some reason my brain is telling me 5G can beam really narrow "spotlights" of signal to the client devices. Sorry for the vagueries but it's all I can recall.
crote 3y ago
The big difference is that it operates in a license-exempt frequency band, at transmission powers orders of magnitude less than regular cellular networks. Anyone can deploy a wifi network for a few bucks; you have to invest many millions to roll out your own 5G network.
- cyberax 3y ago
  > you have to invest many millions to roll out your own 5G network. That's not actually true. You can get a private 5G network from AWS for just $4000 a month ( https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/pricing/ https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/pricing/ ). It operates in the unlicensed band. You can also buy a local frequency license for your campus. They can be surprisingly cheap, around $500 a month. This is out of range for home users, but very attractive for some large industrial customers who want to add reliable connectivity for large warehouses or factories. Mostly because WiFi reliability sucks in many environments, and it's not getting better.

by jokoon 3y ago

ComputerGuru 3y ago

Because the frequency doesn’t require a license and its use won’t land you in jail?

transcriptase 3y ago
Yeah, there are very few frequency ranges where you don’t need to be licensed and meet regulations that generally prevent a given idea from working even if technically possible.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  Well in pretty much all cases you need to meet regulations. The difference is some bands allow operation without type acceptance at very low power limits.

ianburrell 3y ago

I think what we need is cheap 4G or 5G microcells. The difference between Wifi and 4G/5G is that 4G/5G requires lots of infrastructure to run. Then need a non-profit provider. Let's anyone sign up and manage cells. It runs in the CBRS bands. It is open to anyone. Although, might be commercial opportunity to restrict access for businesses and households.

transpute 3y ago

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317433640_Using_UNII-3_Wi-Fi_Frequencies_to_Establish_Long_Distance_Point-to-Point_Links_Experimental_Validation https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317433640_Using_UNI... > This paper demonstrates the use of Unlicensed National Information Infrastructure (UNII-3), 5.725-5.825GHz, Wi-Fi frequencies, in the IEEE802.11a/n standard ... A link distance of 24.3 kilometers, the longest so far, has been achieved. An average peak throughput of 98.4Mbps has been observed ... using a TDMA based Wi-Fi radio overcomes the fundamental challenges associated with the use of the off-the-shelf Wi-Fi radio whose Media access layer is based on CDMA/CA MAC protocol. 2021, "Open-source private LTE and 5G networks", 600+ comments, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27946947 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27946947

aeonik 3y ago

I'm not an expert in 5G, but I was under the impression that the antennas and protocol support far more advanced beamforming than is available to other wireless tech. I remember reading somewhere that it has a lot on common with phased array radar systems. Here is a Wikipedia link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_antenna https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_antenna What I can't square away is I also remember learning about beamforming in my Wireless engineering course, and I thought WiFi had some similar too. But for some reason my brain is telling me 5G can beam really narrow "spotlights" of signal to the client devices. Sorry for the vagueries but it's all I can recall.

crote 3y ago

The big difference is that it operates in a license-exempt frequency band, at transmission powers orders of magnitude less than regular cellular networks. Anyone can deploy a wifi network for a few bucks; you have to invest many millions to roll out your own 5G network.

cyberax 3y ago
> you have to invest many millions to roll out your own 5G network. That's not actually true. You can get a private 5G network from AWS for just $4000 a month ( https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/pricing/ https://aws.amazon.com/private5g/pricing/ ). It operates in the unlicensed band. You can also buy a local frequency license for your campus. They can be surprisingly cheap, around $500 a month. This is out of range for home users, but very attractive for some large industrial customers who want to add reliable connectivity for large warehouses or factories. Mostly because WiFi reliability sucks in many environments, and it's not getting better.