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It is so awesome to see how so many European cities are calming traffic. For americans who haven't visited in 10-15 years, the difference is mindblowing, it's
by trgn 3y ago
It is so awesome to see how so many European cities are calming traffic.
For americans who haven't visited in 10-15 years, the difference is mindblowing, it's something you _feel_. (E.g. brussels, paris, London, many many smaller ones). It's something I hadn't been able to imagine, the airiness, the quiet at night, how relaxed it is, ... unreal.
- ToucanLoucan 3y agoI dream of anything even remotely like this, but that would NEVER fly here. The middle class is absolutely in love with their fucking SUVs and trucks. We'd sooner get Basic Income than any regulation that aims at those bloated class signifiers.
- mc32 3y agoSUVs in themselves are not class signifiers; particular SUVs are, like the MB G class, etc. people buy SUVs mostly because they’re practical. They don’t buy them as a signal of class. There are exceptions, of course.
- trgn 3y agoGenuinely, it hink they're an imagined practicality. We have a conventional family, conventional arrangements, and granted, I'd loath to buy an suv, out of spite I guess, but we've never been in a situation where our old small normal car isn't sufficient. We do all the things normal people do too.
- mc32 3y agoStation wagons are tanky; minivans are homely and underpowered. So lots of people get SUVs. It’s easier to fit things in the trunk when shopping IKEA or going skiing, sports equipment, etc. sure, it is possible to wedge 10ft 2x4s in a sedan, but it’s easier with an SUV. In any case, normal SUVs are not class signifiers. People drive beaters. Some are signifiers but that’s a really small segment.
- namdnay 3y ago“Homely”? Avoiding something because it’s “homely” sounds exactly like symboling status :)
- iforgotpassword 3y agoPlus "underpowered". Like, what? You can't revv your engine that well at the red light or what are we talking about?
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago> Station wagons are tanky; I'm sorry what? Tanky compared to an overbuilt overpowered 17 foot suburban?! The old woodies are a thing of beauty and a Mercedes estate is downright gorgeous, and would utterly SCHOOL an Escalade on cargo capacity AND fuel economy at the same time. > minivans are homely and underpowered. Then get a VAN, not a MINI-VAN. It's in the name dude. > So lots of people get SUVs. It’s easier to fit things in the trunk when shopping IKEA or going skiing, sports equipment, etc. sure, it is possible to wedge 10ft 2x4s in a sedan, but it’s easier with an SUV. I'm sorry that last statement is just laughable. Long cargo is AWFUL in an SUV unless you remove the entire rear row of seats at which point, again, you have a van. You have a tall, shitty van.
- carbine 3y agoMost modern SUVs are 'underpowered' too. They take the same lame engine that goes in a non-sport family sedan and drop it in a larger, heavier car. If you want performance, you usually buy a specific type of car.
- fortylove 3y agoDad with wife, two kids, and a dog here. We are a one car family, and we intend to stay that way due to pretty real parking constraints. We tried to hold out for as long as we could without an SUV. Ultimately, taking a week long trip with the family became focused around space management, having to play packing tetris and telling my wife "I don't think we have space for the pack and play". Sure we made it work, but it was stressful. We got a 3 row SUV (3rd row collapses), and the additional space is just fantastic when it comes to packing. And when the cousins or grandparents are in town, the 3rd row comes in handy.
- namdnay 3y agoWouldn’t a people carrier have been adequate? I don’t think people have an issue with the desire for interior space for families, it’s more an issue with the unnecessary extra size and weight brought on by the offroadesque styling
- fortylove 3y agoI'm not familiar with the term "people carrier", sorry. Is this like a minivan? If so, many minivans are ~similar in size, weight, and capacity to modern SUVs (not all SUVs are a Chevy Suburban :-)). For example, you can compare the Honda Odyssey to the Mazda CX9 and the specs are actually not too different: Mazda CX9: weight: 4,409lbs, 199″ L x 78″ W x 68″ H Honda Odyssey: 4,482lbs, 205″ L x 79″ W x 70″ H Edit: formatting
- namdnay 3y agoAnd yet the Odyssey has more than double the interior space, which shows how inefficient the SUV form factor is An MPV such as the ford cmax will have as much practicality than a much bigger SUV
- secstate 3y agoA minivan allows much easier ingress, egress with large doors. Also, there are no SUVs with 8 seats that I know of. There are minivans with AWD or even limited 4WD. But they definitely carry social stigma and don't look sporty. That's important for a lot of people, I guess. Also, wheel base and weight are not the best way to compare overall utility of a vehicle.
- bozhark 3y agoTo you. Why does that apply beyond you?
- ToucanLoucan 3y agoSUV's are not practical. Trucks can be. If you find yourself needing to transport a large amount of something that is, well, filthy, you will find use in a truck. However a modern truck will make that task more difficult, because the ride height is so tall and the huge wheels require larger wheel wells which diminish the carrying capacity of the bed. The ride height also situates the bed higher, which makes loading/unloading more difficult, and creates a more unsafe situation with heavier loads like large lawn tools (higher center of gravity) than an older, shorter truck with smaller wheels would. It really is not an exaggeration to say that a 2024 Silverado is comprehensively a worse truck in basically every aspect you'd actually want a truck for than a 2004 Silverado, apart from fuel economy. But that's a lot of downsides for an additional 6MPG city, which is basically entirely down to advancements in ICE technology, which is being actively undermined by the much larger-for-absolutely-no-reason vehicle it's inside.[1] SUV's meanwhile are just shitty versions of vans situated on truck chassis. That's literally it. Their height makes them harder to get in and out of and to load/unload cargo from. The fact that their cargo space is finished means they're less appealing to transporting shitty garden-type stuff that a truck does easily. However they're also not arranged as well as vans for their cargo space, requiring the same aforementioned oversized wheel wells, meaning they also hold less than the vans they compete with. And, despite all of that, they also by virtue of using the same chassis, the same engine, and the same suspension components, inherit the shitty fuel economy, higher maintenance costs, rollover risk, and crash incompatibility as their truck counterparts, while offering basically none of the benefits, apart from maybe towing. As long as what you're towing didn't need to be hitched to the bed anyway. SUV's are practical for one thing: demonstrating wealth to your neighbors, and offering you better odds in a crash with another stupid SUV. Not great odds, just better odds. 1: Note that's just the EPA's figures and doesn't account for the age of the 2004 Silverado. Edit: This is, tangentially related, why actual tradesmen not Home Depot customers cosplaying as tradesmen, have recently begin raiding the used market for pickup trucks that are actually designed to do work, not to let grown men who live in the suburbs play an imaginary role on the Blue Collar Comedy Tour. Or just abandoning them altogether and getting a van.
- fortylove 3y agoModern SUVs are mostly not on truck chassis anymore. The body-on-frame breed of SUV is growing increasingly rare. Modern SUVs are a lot closer to larger sedans (for example, a Mazda CX5 is not remotely close to a truck).
- jdlshore 3y agoMinivans are much more practical: generally more cargo space, lower bed, higher mileage, less roll-over risk, better front visibility (so less chance of running over your kids in the driveway), good amenities. The Toyota Sienna comes in a 4WD variant too, and has plenty of power.
- cityofdelusion 3y agoThe average minivan is far larger than the average SUV. They have about the same footprint as a pickup truck.
- Dylan16807 3y agoSo specifically compare compact minivans to SUVs then. Categories are made up and the average of a category is not always relevant.
- tikhonj 3y agoA Suburban is as much a class signifier as a G Class, just for a different class. Hell, it's in the name: it's the car of the suburban middle classes. It's the minivan for the sort of kind of person who would get a minivan but doesn't want to show they're the kind of person who would get a minivan.
- trgn 3y agoIt's one of those cars people refer to by name. People drive their "suburban", the neighbors have a "suburban", in the news the "suburban" will crash through the daycare, not nondescript oversized suv,...
- CalRobert 3y agoIf it helps, I'm in an affluent part of the Netherlands and you see some very swanky cargo bikes signifying class. Cars too in fairness, but still. Not gonna lie, I ordered an urban arrow today (nothing fancy!) And I'd love to show it off back in the states.
- ToucanLoucan 3y agoDude those cargo bikes are cool. I would love to ride one someday.
- CalRobert 3y agoThey're awesome! Sometimes you can ask for a local ambassador to give a test ride.
- TheAtomic 3y agoIf only this were the problem here...I temporarily live in a small town in the American South and the mega-pickup truck thing is the most childish thing I have ever seen.
- CalRobert 3y agoSadly a problem here too. I'm very surprised how many Dodge Rams there are here, including this 3500 dually https://www.reddit.com/r/kutautos/comments/1ag97lf/english_sorry_who_needs_a_ram_3500_dually_right/ https://www.reddit.com/r/kutautos/comments/1ag97lf/english_s...
- tmnvix 3y agoI live in an area where streets like this are commonplace: https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-41.282617,174.7614182,3a,75y,185.2h,81.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0VpJ4uI9dvcmYqjFQDElyA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-41.282617,174.7614182,3a,75y... Note that this is not some side street - it's a busy two-way thoroughfare. Despite this we are being inundated by larger and larger vehicles. It used to be that Dodge Rams and such were a novelty that had to be imported privately. Now they are common at the city's car dealerships. I refuse to believe that people are buying these for their 'practicality'.
- mlinksva 3y agoThat's OK (sarcasm), Basic Income without cheap transportation and housing (each of which huge private vehicles are detrimental to) is Sisyphean.
- politelemon 3y agoInteresting that your perspective helped me understand why I feel different whenever I return to London from my US travels. I get a sense of relief that isn't related to being back home. That said I've seen quite a few people here trying to stuff their oversized SUVs into streets that just weren't made for them. But they insist. I can only wish that we had the regulatory gonads to do the same as Paris is announcing!
- gdilla 3y agowait what? London streets are streams of cars moving very. very. slowly. it's definitely discouraging to have and use a car there but its not like there isn't a ton of traffic.
- CalRobert 3y agoLeft the US eleven years ago and every time I go back to stroadsville USA I HATE it. I can't imagine my kids walking there. Even the "good" cities are horrendously bad.
- gimmeThaBeet 3y agoI'll admit I live under a rock so I've honestly never heard the term stroad. Looked at images and was like "ah, okay, right. Where I live..."
- canucker2016 3y agoI've never encountered the term 'stroad' until I watched videos from an urban-planning-related YouTube channel, NotJustBikes, https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes . Here's the stroad-related video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM .
- fishywang 3y agoEven if we just enforce compact parking spots it would be miles better than what we have today, you know, just like how people don't park their ICE cars on EV-only spots, that SUVs would actually don't park on spots marked as compact only.