15 ms·

US investigation of Tesla steering problems is now one step closer to a recall

96 points by pg_1234 3y ago

ProllyInfamous 3y ago
An engineer (for whom I do occasional handyman work) recently disclosed to OEM a "pending public safety notice" that Tesla had an egregious craftsmanship issue within the chasis of a major product. Tesla's initial response was "can you please wait longer to disclose this?" -- Just another Boeing-like example of why industry self-regulation/compliance doesn't really mean shit when profit-seeking for share-holders is legally directive #1. As Tom Rowe (and so many others) brilliantly states, "Safety THIRD" ...
phkahler 3y ago
One thing about self driving cars is they need the ability to command the electric power steering system. I worked in EPAS for 6 years and it was a big deal when customers started wanting to do that due to liability. My guess - and it's only a guess - would be that some situation is leading to normal epas operation getting disabled but self driving not enabled. Not sure whose steering gear they use.
- dymk 3y ago
  My understanding of the Tesla EPS system (this is also a guess, based on discussion observed between Comma 3X devs working on Tesla integration) is that there's not a separate mode it operates in while under FSD is enabled. That's in part how the safety of the EPS is validated independent of the LKAS - driver should always be able to easily overpower it. Contrast this with other car models with a "parking mode" for their EPS, which operate under greatly increased torque limits. Clearly something is going wrong if drivers have to fight hard against the EPS, but FSD shouldn't be able to do anything that a typical LKAS can't either, safety guardrails included. (also, thanks for your work on solvespace, great piece of software)
  - vrc 3y ago
    The wheel in FSD is hard to take control over and when you do it goes absolutely slack leading to an overcorrection. Even after having my car for years it still does a wiggle when this happens. Not sure if that’s what you’re saying shouldn’t happen. Doesn’t happen with my CRVs LKAS
jan3024-2r 3y ago
[dead]
fortran77 3y ago
A few times I've seen a message in my car (I have an "S" and a "Plaid", neither of which are in this recall) that the power steering may not be operating properly. But despite the message, it never felt any different. The message just disappeared and I never worried about it after that... > Also emerging on Friday, Tesla is recalling nearly all of the vehicles it has sold in the U.S. because some warning lights on the instrument panel are too small. What warning lights on the instrument panel? Is this just a software update to the LCD display?
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  Warning lights/icons on the display being too small/subtle seems very on-brand for Tesla. Musk was willing to just eat fines over the aesthetics of the airbag warning on sun visors (which I admit I personally despise).
  - jurassicfoxy 3y ago
    > which I admit I personally despise That's extremely funny. I don't even notice them, but my dad ruined his sun visor once trying to get those damned stickers off, hahaha.
  - fortran77 3y ago
    One thing that bugs me is "red" appearing on the dashboard for things that aren't warnings -- like album or podcast cover art. I still get distracted when I see something red show up, and then look to realize it's the "Commentary" podcast logo, or something like that. I think that red should be reserved for something that needs immediate attention, and that album cover art shouldn't be on the dash.
- denysvitali 3y ago
  > Is this just a software update Yes, most likely - but "recall for every vehicle sold in the U.S" gets you more clicks.
  - alistairSH 3y ago
ofslidingfeet 3y ago
Hopefully if there's some actual problem with the steering, they'll get a break from all the politically motivated government persecution long enough to fix it.
belltaco 3y ago
<deleted>
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- refulgentis 3y ago
  It literally says in the very next sentence: "Documents posted Friday by U.S. safety regulators say the recall will be done with an online software update." You cutting that out has to be intentional. ;) I'm kidding: I don't think you or the writer had any intent of anything, other than communicating, nor do I think about that sort of thing.
honeybadger1 3y ago
[flagged]
- okdood64 3y ago
  I'll bite. What's click baity about it?
  - grecy 3y ago
    The font size is too small, and will be fixed with an over the air update in a day or two.
    - ahahahahah 3y ago
      Yeah, sorry this is title about steering failures. Try again.
  - khaki54 3y ago
    Besides the obvious, that every other recall seems to be a routine software update
- dymk 3y ago
  > Agency documents say drivers are reporting loss of steering control, often accompanied by messages showing that power assisted steering has been reduced or disabled. Some complained of an inability to turn the steering wheel, while others said it required more effort.
- pengaru 3y ago
  > Seems people love a good Tesla recall clickbait title...Sadly, there are plenty of suckers. Loss of steering control, and you're shouting clickbait, smh. Your fanboi is showing.
mumblemumble 3y ago
OK, so this is definitely something to follow up on. But also, that other recall for the warning lights being too small that the article mentions really caught my eye. Seems like Tesla failed the brown M&M test[1] on that one. 1: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brown-out/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brown-out/
IHEARTANAL 3y ago
"An OTA update will avoid this" "When it can be updated it is not a recall"
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  It will always be registered as a recall if safety is involved, even if it is just an OTA. Registering it as a recall is a legal requirement.
- dnissley 3y ago
  "It still counts as a recall"
PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
I've never driven a tesla. I've also never had my steering wheel randomly stop working in the middle of driving. I can't help but think reality follows fiction https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/car-balk/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/car-balk/ If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics: 1. For no reason at all, your car would crash twice a day. 2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you would have to buy a new car. 3. Occasionally, executing a manoeuver such as a left-turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, and you would have to reinstall the engine. 4. When your car died on the freeway for no reason, you would just accept this, restart and drive on. 5. Only one person at a time could use the car, unless you bought 'Car95' or 'CarNT', and then added more seats. 6. Apple would make a car powered by the sun, reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but would run on only five per cent of the roads. 7. Oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a single 'general car default' warning light. 8. New seats would force every-one to have the same size butt. 9. The airbag would say 'Are you sure?' before going off. 10. Occasionally, for no reason, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key, and grabbed the radio antenna. 11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of road maps from Rand-McNally (a subsidiary of GM), even though they neither need them nor want them. Trying to delete this option would immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50 per cent or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department. 12. Every time GM introduced a new model, car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car. 13. You would press the 'start' button to shut off the engine.
- nothercastle 3y ago
  My coworker experienced #4 with his Teslas . Just randomly shut down while driving had to be rebooted
- belltaco 3y ago
  Power steering failures are relatively common, among companies that have been making cars for a century now. E.g. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/gm-recalls-trucks-suvs-for-steering-problem/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/gm-recal... https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/honda-civic-sedans-hatchbacks-recalled-for-steering-problem-a7538780192 https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/hon... https://amarolawfirm.com/product-liability/vehicle-recalls/ford-steering-recall/ https://amarolawfirm.com/product-liability/vehicle-recalls/f... You only hear about this one because it's Tesla.

96 points by pg_1234 3y ago

An engineer (for whom I do occasional handyman work) recently disclosed to OEM a "pending public safety notice" that Tesla had an egregious craftsmanship issue within the chasis of a major product. Tesla's initial response was "can you please wait longer to disclose this?" -- Just another Boeing-like example of why industry self-regulation/compliance doesn't really mean shit when profit-seeking for share-holders is legally directive #1. As Tom Rowe (and so many others) brilliantly states, "Safety THIRD" ...

phkahler 3y ago

One thing about self driving cars is they need the ability to command the electric power steering system. I worked in EPAS for 6 years and it was a big deal when customers started wanting to do that due to liability. My guess - and it's only a guess - would be that some situation is leading to normal epas operation getting disabled but self driving not enabled. Not sure whose steering gear they use.

dymk 3y ago
My understanding of the Tesla EPS system (this is also a guess, based on discussion observed between Comma 3X devs working on Tesla integration) is that there's not a separate mode it operates in while under FSD is enabled. That's in part how the safety of the EPS is validated independent of the LKAS - driver should always be able to easily overpower it. Contrast this with other car models with a "parking mode" for their EPS, which operate under greatly increased torque limits. Clearly something is going wrong if drivers have to fight hard against the EPS, but FSD shouldn't be able to do anything that a typical LKAS can't either, safety guardrails included. (also, thanks for your work on solvespace, great piece of software)
- vrc 3y ago
  The wheel in FSD is hard to take control over and when you do it goes absolutely slack leading to an overcorrection. Even after having my car for years it still does a wiggle when this happens. Not sure if that’s what you’re saying shouldn’t happen. Doesn’t happen with my CRVs LKAS

jan3024-2r 3y ago

[dead]

fortran77 3y ago

A few times I've seen a message in my car (I have an "S" and a "Plaid", neither of which are in this recall) that the power steering may not be operating properly. But despite the message, it never felt any different. The message just disappeared and I never worried about it after that... > Also emerging on Friday, Tesla is recalling nearly all of the vehicles it has sold in the U.S. because some warning lights on the instrument panel are too small. What warning lights on the instrument panel? Is this just a software update to the LCD display?

FireBeyond 3y ago
Warning lights/icons on the display being too small/subtle seems very on-brand for Tesla. Musk was willing to just eat fines over the aesthetics of the airbag warning on sun visors (which I admit I personally despise).
- jurassicfoxy 3y ago
  > which I admit I personally despise That's extremely funny. I don't even notice them, but my dad ruined his sun visor once trying to get those damned stickers off, hahaha.
- fortran77 3y ago
  One thing that bugs me is "red" appearing on the dashboard for things that aren't warnings -- like album or podcast cover art. I still get distracted when I see something red show up, and then look to realize it's the "Commentary" podcast logo, or something like that. I think that red should be reserved for something that needs immediate attention, and that album cover art shouldn't be on the dash.
denysvitali 3y ago
> Is this just a software update Yes, most likely - but "recall for every vehicle sold in the U.S" gets you more clicks.
- alistairSH 3y ago

ofslidingfeet 3y ago

Hopefully if there's some actual problem with the steering, they'll get a break from all the politically motivated government persecution long enough to fix it.

belltaco 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
refulgentis 3y ago
It literally says in the very next sentence: "Documents posted Friday by U.S. safety regulators say the recall will be done with an online software update." You cutting that out has to be intentional. ;) I'm kidding: I don't think you or the writer had any intent of anything, other than communicating, nor do I think about that sort of thing.

honeybadger1 3y ago

[flagged]

okdood64 3y ago
I'll bite. What's click baity about it?
- grecy 3y ago
  The font size is too small, and will be fixed with an over the air update in a day or two.
  - ahahahahah 3y ago
    Yeah, sorry this is title about steering failures. Try again.
- khaki54 3y ago
  Besides the obvious, that every other recall seems to be a routine software update
dymk 3y ago
> Agency documents say drivers are reporting loss of steering control, often accompanied by messages showing that power assisted steering has been reduced or disabled. Some complained of an inability to turn the steering wheel, while others said it required more effort.
pengaru 3y ago
> Seems people love a good Tesla recall clickbait title...Sadly, there are plenty of suckers. Loss of steering control, and you're shouting clickbait, smh. Your fanboi is showing.

mumblemumble 3y ago

OK, so this is definitely something to follow up on. But also, that other recall for the warning lights being too small that the article mentions really caught my eye. Seems like Tesla failed the brown M&M test[1] on that one. 1: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brown-out/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brown-out/

IHEARTANAL 3y ago

"An OTA update will avoid this" "When it can be updated it is not a recall"

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
It will always be registered as a recall if safety is involved, even if it is just an OTA. Registering it as a recall is a legal requirement.
dnissley 3y ago
"It still counts as a recall"

PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago

I've never driven a tesla. I've also never had my steering wheel randomly stop working in the middle of driving. I can't help but think reality follows fiction https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/car-balk/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/car-balk/ If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics: 1. For no reason at all, your car would crash twice a day. 2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you would have to buy a new car. 3. Occasionally, executing a manoeuver such as a left-turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, and you would have to reinstall the engine. 4. When your car died on the freeway for no reason, you would just accept this, restart and drive on. 5. Only one person at a time could use the car, unless you bought 'Car95' or 'CarNT', and then added more seats. 6. Apple would make a car powered by the sun, reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but would run on only five per cent of the roads. 7. Oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a single 'general car default' warning light. 8. New seats would force every-one to have the same size butt. 9. The airbag would say 'Are you sure?' before going off. 10. Occasionally, for no reason, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key, and grabbed the radio antenna. 11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of road maps from Rand-McNally (a subsidiary of GM), even though they neither need them nor want them. Trying to delete this option would immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50 per cent or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department. 12. Every time GM introduced a new model, car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car. 13. You would press the 'start' button to shut off the engine.

nothercastle 3y ago
My coworker experienced #4 with his Teslas . Just randomly shut down while driving had to be rebooted
belltaco 3y ago
Power steering failures are relatively common, among companies that have been making cars for a century now. E.g. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/gm-recalls-trucks-suvs-for-steering-problem/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/gm-recal... https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/honda-civic-sedans-hatchbacks-recalled-for-steering-problem-a7538780192 https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/hon... https://amarolawfirm.com/product-liability/vehicle-recalls/ford-steering-recall/ https://amarolawfirm.com/product-liability/vehicle-recalls/f... You only hear about this one because it's Tesla.