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The number of people trying to defend what is, at best, extremely childish behavior is fascinating to me. Would you really go up to your city counselor in real
by tw04 3y ago
The number of people trying to defend what is, at best, extremely childish behavior is fascinating to me. Would you really go up to your city counselor in real life and tell them you wish death on them and their family, and pretend it's OK because it's an obscure reference to 90s rap (mind you the rap song WAS an actual death threat)? Do you think you'd be met with laughter? Do you actually consider that socially acceptable behavior?
If you dislike their politics, so be it - donate to campaigns or personally run against them. Write a letter explaining how you'd like them to vote.. But the amount of absolute crass behavior people allow "because it's the internet" is mind boggling.
- zeroCalories 3y agoThis isn't your neighbor, you don't owe politicians any kindness.
- bdcravens 3y agoYes, but death threats are a crime, so we owe it to everyone, including ourselves, to not stoop to that level.
- antognini 3y agoJust to add some nuance here, Tan's comments weren't a death threat in the legal sense (or at least don't constitue a crime). It is perfectly legal (if inadvisable) to say something along the lines of "Politician X should die a slow painful death." It only becomes a crime if it is a highly specific threat. E.g. "I am going to shoot Politician X on Tuesday evening after they leave City Hall."
- JohnFen 3y agoJust because it's legal doesn't mean it's not wrong. I mean, he can legally say it for sure, and I wouldn't argue that the law should prevent him from that. But once said, everyone else has every right to condemn him for it.
- zeroCalories 3y ago[flagged]
- freejazz 3y agoLocal politicians are neighbors
- iancmceachern 3y agoIt certainly doesn't help his case. I agree. We need to bring civility and basic respect, for the institution, back into our public discourse.
- pera 3y agoUnfortunately social media doesn't recompensate those using a measured tone to communicate with others, civility seems to be ineffective nowadays if your objective is to produce any political impact because outrage (as a conduit for discourse) spreads more easily.
- VoodooJuJu 3y agoYesterday, I read someone mock HN as "Corporate Apologism News". Quite accurate in this case.
- sjwhevvvvvsj 3y agoSilicon Valley is fun that way - tons of smart people who’s eyes slowly shift out of focus and minds slip into a stupor when confronted with their participation in helping the most horrible people alive ruin the world.
- malermeister 3y agoMoney blinds. The price for those nice comp packages is complicity in the descent into neofeudalism.
- sjwhevvvvvsj 3y agoThe funny thing is the money doesn’t even go that far in Silicon Valley! You’d often be better off making less comp but living nearly anywhere else in the world. My theory is the real reason for the return to office mandates is to keep employees stuck in a situation where they are compelled to chase big comp and compromise whatever morals they once had just to put food on the table.
- nebula8804 3y agoSilicon Valley is just an inefficient value transfer mechanism from society (by digitizing everything) to SF land owners.
- shuckles 3y agoI’ve received death threats from representatives of local non profits for advocating to build more houses in San Francisco. It’s not that surprising when people observe that the outrage over this incident is arguably insincere, even if the original tweet was inappropriate.
- ceejayoz 3y agoSurely the takeaway here is "death threats bad", not "death threats good"?
- shuckles 3y agoThose aren’t the only options. “Death threats bad, but this one overblown for political reasons” is perfectly within the realm of reasonable opinion. Across the bay, an actual supervisor resigned last week due to real and persistent death threats. Yet somehow that is not getting nearly the attention that a retracted tweet is. Similarly, Scott Wiener the local state senator has been harassed by online trolls for years and has needed a security detail posted at his house. Yet the same politicians crying foul over a tweet could not bring themselves to pass a resolution condemning death threats against him by actual psychos because Wiener is not in their political faction.
- danso 3y agoBecause the supes didn’t formally pass a resolution about Scott Wiener, it’s hypocritical of them to informally criticize any kind of dear threat?
- shuckles 3y agoNo that’s not what I said. Also, they haven’t “informally criticized” a death threat. They’ve asked the city attorney to draft a law against it and filed police reports, in addition to having their favorite reporters prolong the news cycle. Don’t downplay the extent of the pearl clutching.
- 3y ago
- dheera 3y ago> donate to campaigns or personally run against them Neither of these do much, honestly. The government already steals enough of my money, I'm not handing them more. And as a silicon valley nerd I'm not going to attract votes by personally running. But yeah, wishing death is immature.
- EGG_CREAM 3y agoIt seems like you’re implying that donating to a campaign somehow goes to the government?
- astolarz 3y agoThey also think their voter information was "leaked" when they registered to vote, so it doesn't sound like they're very civically informed... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39206679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39206679
- hjiud 3y ago[dead]
- codegeek 3y agoI am conflicted on this because I like to speak my mind. Having said that, I am a nobody so usually no one cares. My wife always tells me "It's not the what but the how you say it". Gary being such a popular figure probably should have worded it better. However, I do worry that there is too much criticism these days when someone speaks their mind. EDIT: I see people making a fair point about "too much criticism" as it sort of contradicts what I said about "speak my mind". I guess my worry is not about free speech or other people just criticizing but more of the woke crowd that just wants to cancel you because they disagree. I should have clarified that in initial comment.
- derstander 3y ago> I am conflicted on this because I like to speak my mind. > However, I do worry that there is too much criticism these days when someone speaks their mind. You don’t need to feel conflicted. Just think of that “too much criticism” as people who disagree with the initial take as speaking their mind in response.
- bilbo0s 3y agoI was just thinking that. How can you be in support of Freedom of Speech, and at the same time be out here saying there is "too much criticism"? It doesn't make any sense.
- the_only_law 3y agoYou’re getting really close to understanding.
- s1artibartfast 3y agoThe first is about rights to do something, the second is opinion on what others should do. e.g. "I support the right of people to eat what they want, but really wish they ate less junk food." With respect to criticism, I tend to agree in general. I wish people spent less time giving importance or fixating on random dumb or offensive things people say.
- 3y ago
- andy99 3y agoI think people downplaying it is better than trying to make more out of it than it is, or being part of an online pile-on. It's not great behavior but it's in the realm of "did something dumb", not more.
- ethbr1 3y agoGeneral rule of thumb -- if you're tempted to say anything that references "Hit Em Up" [0], don't do it on main. Or, you know, just be drunk off of Twitter? Elon barely gets away with it, and everyone else isn't that rich. [0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ugD3_yt756w https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ugD3_yt756w (goes without saying, but NSFW)
- actualwitch 3y agoElon getting away with it is the problem. Broken windows theory and all that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory
- ethbr1 3y agoIs it though? Lots of people seem to have poor opinions of Elon specifically because he does this sort of thing. That seems to be working as intended. And we're never going to fix the "money buys away consequences" problem. F.ex. I'm not beholden to chefs' opinions of me, if I can throw 100x average salary to get one to work for me.
- actualwitch 3y agoIt is. A bunch of vocal people having loud opinions online doesn't really matter and that's what he demonstrates perfectly: people are mad, but tesla's are selling like hotcakes, spacex is still successful and his money keeps multiplying. Other people see that and feel no need to maintain appearances. This will only get worse as more and more people catch on.
- psunavy03 3y agoThat's because the quality of Tesla and SpaceX's products have nothing to do with Elon himself being an obnoxious ass. Steve Jobs was a horrible human, too, yet Apple is a going concern.
- 3y ago
- mise_en_place 3y agoFreedom of speech entails allowing for speech you dislike and find abhorrent. Just be honest and say you are against freedom of speech, and you are in favor of compelled speech. SV types have this weird politeness shtick.
- tw04 3y agoYou completely missed the point, in its entirety. A. Freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequences. B. Just because you CAN say anything you want doesn't mean you SHOULD. Part of living in society is acting... civilized. Suggesting you should treat others with respect is now equated with hating freedom of speech? I guess our country really is in trouble...
- mise_en_place 3y agoThe city’s board of supervisors is wasting police resources on a joke somebody said on X instead of fixing the problems of their city. Our country is way past the point of really in trouble.
- CydeWeys 3y agoFreedom of speech is not freedom of consequences. You can't say whatever assholish thing you want and then claim freedom of speech as a shield when it inevitably pisses people off. This is not a freedom of speech issue, it's a "CEOs shouldn't be idiots" issue.
- dhdidiwnppppp 3y ago> Freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences Why do people always say this? Yes, it’s true - and it’s also just flexing your power and ability to crush any speech you deem should have “consequences”. Free speech advocates are trying to push for a consistent, fairly applied position (which is very noble but imo untenable - I’m not a free speech advocate) and often met with a response that’s essentially “you have no power and I do, so if I dislike what you’re saying I’m going to crush you”.
- ryandrake 3y ago> If you dislike their politics, so be it - donate to campaigns or personally run against them. Write a letter explaining how you'd like them to vote.. But the amount of absolute crass behavior people allow "because it's the internet" is mind boggling. I don't even think it's "because it's the internet." "In Real Life" political discourse has been getting significantly more and more crass and more and more belligerent in the last 10-15 years. Go over to YouTube and bring up some Reagan-Mondale or Clinton-Bush debates and compare their tone and temperament to what we see today. People still felt strongly about the issues back then, but we weren't so constantly hurling threats and potty-mouth insults all over the place like today.
- ceejayoz 3y ago> Go over to YouTube and bring up some Reagan-Mondale or Clinton-Bush debates and compare their tone and temperament to what we see today. Reminded me of a fascinating video I recall; Bush and Reagan debate illegal immigration in 1980's primary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsmgPp_nlok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsmgPp_nlok They sound more liberal than half of today's Democrats.
- ethbr1 3y agoThe positioning to me (which drifts over time) is less interesting than the higher quality of the discourse. Granted, this was in a smaller venue, but seeing H.W. actually consider the question on the spot and deliver an on-topic, detailed answer outlining his position was... refreshing. Presumption that the question is valid and interesting, the asker is to be respected, and supporters of the platform espoused and opponents have good points and should be respected. Empathetic disagreement is not something you typically see anywhere recently. It's been boiled down to staccato sound bites.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago> They sound more liberal than half of today's Democrats. As classic liberals, they actually were.
- 3y ago
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- caesil 3y agoimo the biggest issue was not the content of the tweet itself but the getting really mad and drunk tweeting. neither particularly professional nor politically wise for someone who is the head of a major institution in the startup world and a figurehead for (much-needed) political reform in sf. the actual words having crossed the line is sort of downstream of firing tweets from the hip while mad and drunk. he basically needs to step down from the podium now or he's going to hurt the cause of making sf better, which is really unfortunate.
- colechristensen 3y agoI disagree, it's the content. While I don't think many would interpret as a legitimate death threat... it is adjacent, and quoting what was more or less a death threat which contributed to murder. Altering consciousness is a human trait which I support in the end. Doing unreasonable things while in altered states is a consequence, and likewise fine as long as things as nobody really gets hurt. Saying strange things or stirring up controversy by having unpopular opinions or hurting someone's feelings a little... not a big problem. Apologize and move on. What happened here is pretty far across the line, though. It was pretty close to a death threat and served to encourage others to get even closer. I'm not quite sure if it should be illegal, but it should get a public figure fired.
- hintymad 3y agoI don't understand the rant either. Tan already has a platform. If he wants to "hurt" someone, wouldn't cold facts and logic work the best? What's the point of ranting some nonsense?
- bnegativ3 3y ago[dead]
- jrflowers 3y ago>The number of people trying to defend what is, at best, extremely childish behavior is fascinating to me. While I am not going to say that there is a phenomenon akin to sycophant Olympics performed for the benefit of an audience of a single dunce king going on here,
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]