4 ms·

Not a literal wrench, but more like... persuasive talking, backed by credible threat of incarceration. The point of the "$5 wrench attack" is that it's not a c

Not a literal wrench, but more like... persuasive talking, backed by credible threat of incarceration. The point of the "$5 wrench attack" is that it's not a cryptographic break.

paulpauper 3y ago
Germany has very lax sentencing. for $2 billion I would just do the time. I am still guessing it was unprotected file on desktop. Probably the criminals kept the only copy of keys on a thumb drive , which when confiscated meant they had no choice but to comply.
- progbits 3y ago
  You think you can just get out of prison and use the money? They will be watching you and anything you buy with it or any cash you convert it to will be seized again. Might as well give it up for reduced sentence.
  - wmf 3y ago
    Obviously you'd want to leave the country and never return like Kim Dotcom or Mark Karpelès.
    - AlbertCory 3y ago
      Or Carlos Ghosn (a prisoner in Lebanon) the TV miniseries on his case is well worth watching.
  - OtherShrezzing 3y ago
    €2bn buys a nice life for you and everyone you've ever been acquainted with, somewhere without an extradition treaty.
    - adventured 3y ago
      There aren't any nice places without extradition treaties where you won't be murdered by the people in charge, police, criminal gangs, et al. Or otherwise de facto forced to turn over the money for protection, after which you'll be discarded if you're lucky (and disappeared for convenience if you're not).
      - dvngnt_ 3y ago
        Montenegro?
        acdha 3y ago
        They extradite: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/montenegro-court-approves-extradition-cryptocurrency-king-do-kwon-2023-11-24/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/montenegro-court-approv...
      - iso8859-1 3y ago
        Snowden seems to have a much better life than he would in a federal prison, don't you think? Doesn't Putin have an incentive to show that he treats defectors well?
      - freetanga 3y ago
        Brazil
  - fbdab103 3y ago
    So I am unclear on this. In Germany or the US, if you rob a bank, hide the money, get arrested, and serve a X year sentence, what happens when you are released? Could you use the money? You have already served for the crime. I suppose they could keep some criminal charges in reserve? If nothing else, eventually the statute of limitations would kick in where the money is fair game? Just be sure to declare it on your taxes, lest they get you like Capone.
    - HeatrayEnjoyer 3y ago
      IANAL but I suspect this is the kind of thing civil forfeiture is originally intended for. You would have to sue in court and prove the cash was obtained through legal means.
    - leakybit 3y ago
      In the US, you may be ordered to pay restitutions or the bank can sue you for the loss.
patall 3y ago
Plus, these guys were (mentally) able to keep to those bitcoin for 100x of growth. I would guess they are likely to have more from other, legal sources, which potentially makes them millionaires. Why (indefenitely) stay in prison with a billion when you can go free with a million.
- jakderrida 3y ago
  > Plus, these guys were (mentally) able to keep to those bitcoin for 100x of growth. Given the time, I'd wager growth was completely fortuitous. They held it for the same reason I hold mine. Conversion requires either a source willing to exchange large amounts of cash for crypto, which tends to be impractical. Converting to cash through conventional sources (legal exchanges), necessarily involve either large bank deposits or, in cases like Coinbase or Kraken, conversions to cash are directly reported to IRS. I only say this because I'm in the same situation, except I didn't obtain it illegally.
hot_gril 3y ago
"$5 wrench" refers to https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/

Not a literal wrench, but more like... persuasive talking, backed by credible threat of incarceration. The point of the "$5 wrench attack" is that it's not a cryptographic break.

paulpauper 3y ago

Germany has very lax sentencing. for $2 billion I would just do the time. I am still guessing it was unprotected file on desktop. Probably the criminals kept the only copy of keys on a thumb drive , which when confiscated meant they had no choice but to comply.

progbits 3y ago
You think you can just get out of prison and use the money? They will be watching you and anything you buy with it or any cash you convert it to will be seized again. Might as well give it up for reduced sentence.
- wmf 3y ago
  Obviously you'd want to leave the country and never return like Kim Dotcom or Mark Karpelès.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    Or Carlos Ghosn (a prisoner in Lebanon) the TV miniseries on his case is well worth watching.
- OtherShrezzing 3y ago
  €2bn buys a nice life for you and everyone you've ever been acquainted with, somewhere without an extradition treaty.
  - adventured 3y ago
    There aren't any nice places without extradition treaties where you won't be murdered by the people in charge, police, criminal gangs, et al. Or otherwise de facto forced to turn over the money for protection, after which you'll be discarded if you're lucky (and disappeared for convenience if you're not).
    - dvngnt_ 3y ago
      Montenegro?
      - acdha 3y ago
        They extradite: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/montenegro-court-approves-extradition-cryptocurrency-king-do-kwon-2023-11-24/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/montenegro-court-approv...
    - iso8859-1 3y ago
      Snowden seems to have a much better life than he would in a federal prison, don't you think? Doesn't Putin have an incentive to show that he treats defectors well?
    - freetanga 3y ago
      Brazil
- fbdab103 3y ago
  So I am unclear on this. In Germany or the US, if you rob a bank, hide the money, get arrested, and serve a X year sentence, what happens when you are released? Could you use the money? You have already served for the crime. I suppose they could keep some criminal charges in reserve? If nothing else, eventually the statute of limitations would kick in where the money is fair game? Just be sure to declare it on your taxes, lest they get you like Capone.
  - HeatrayEnjoyer 3y ago
    IANAL but I suspect this is the kind of thing civil forfeiture is originally intended for. You would have to sue in court and prove the cash was obtained through legal means.
  - leakybit 3y ago
    In the US, you may be ordered to pay restitutions or the bank can sue you for the loss.

patall 3y ago

Plus, these guys were (mentally) able to keep to those bitcoin for 100x of growth. I would guess they are likely to have more from other, legal sources, which potentially makes them millionaires. Why (indefenitely) stay in prison with a billion when you can go free with a million.

jakderrida 3y ago
> Plus, these guys were (mentally) able to keep to those bitcoin for 100x of growth. Given the time, I'd wager growth was completely fortuitous. They held it for the same reason I hold mine. Conversion requires either a source willing to exchange large amounts of cash for crypto, which tends to be impractical. Converting to cash through conventional sources (legal exchanges), necessarily involve either large bank deposits or, in cases like Coinbase or Kraken, conversions to cash are directly reported to IRS. I only say this because I'm in the same situation, except I didn't obtain it illegally.

hot_gril 3y ago

"$5 wrench" refers to https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/