5 ms·

am i the only one who's confused and kind of sick of these updates? blabla signs of life on mars for decades but zero actual evidence don't mean to be uncharit

by bedobi 3y ago

am i the only one who's confused and kind of sick of these updates? blabla signs of life on mars for decades but zero actual evidence don't mean to be uncharitable, i'm as excited as anyone at the prospect, but the whole thing is getting old either come up with something or keep quiet lol

tocs3 3y ago
I am also but the article is about the ancient lake also. It has some interesting GPR (radar) images.
smoldesu 3y ago
If martians had built anything cool there we would have known by now. It's just not very likely there's much interesting up there unless you're interested in the little things.
- throwup238 3y ago
  Unless it’s been buried and eroded by millions of years of dust storms
  - rococode 3y ago
    Good ol' Silurian hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silurian_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silurian_hypothesis
    - throwup238 3y ago
      Silurian hypothesis is specific to Earth’s geologic record which we’ve sampled all over the world millions of times. It’s less ridiculous to posit the same happening on Mars where we’ve only sent awkward robotic explorers. We haven’t explored any of the lava tubes or done ground penetrating radar studies or cut thousands of core samples all over the planet so we really have no idea what’s buried there like we do on Earth.
- EdwardDiego 3y ago
  Ancient Martians - was the giant face visible from orbit we made with cleverly aimed meteorite impacts not enough for you? Oh sure, it's just a rock you say. Well duh, we had to make it with _something_. /s
- yreg 3y ago
  Who the hell on this forum isn't interested in the little things when the little things refer to alien life?!
  - cryptoz 3y ago
    It's a lot of people here - HN does occasionally love a space story, but typically Mars stories are met with insults, sarcasm and vitriol for those who are interested in it. Edit: The effect is so strong, I have occasionally wondered if it is a concerted effort to get more people to start Mars startups, like nerd sniping. "Hurr you can't go to Mars like ever!!" -> "....just watch me". lol.
    - yreg 3y ago
      The parent didn't dismiss just this story. They seem to have pre-emptively dismissed the actual discovery of life on Mars if it were to ever happen, because it would be just the little things anyway…
- mattlondon 3y ago
  If there is any life - even just "little" single-cell microbial type life - that is a huge huge huge change for human society. We'd have actual proof that we are not the only life in the universe (even if just on Mars it may be microbial-like). Actual proof that we are not special or unique. I view it as like when a small baby/toddler realises that other people exist and that they are not the sole focus of the world's attention - a major development milestone.
  - thordenmark 3y ago
    It will then have to be proved it isn't life from Earth that got there somehow, to really be that huge change for society.
    - Narishma 3y ago
      Or the other way around.
  - echelon 3y ago
    That barely scratches the surface of how much society and life on earth will change. Religion, life's meaning, our place in the universe -- everyone will face an immediate reckoning here and have to reconcile their previous notions. But even more impactful is that we'll start to be able to make much better approximations of Fermi's Paradox. It might suggest that the universe is teeming with life. Then questions about how it evolves and reaches sentience will move to the forefront. We'll have much better ideas. We might start to get a little anxious about what's lurking out there, and we will probably start spending massively on space telescopes. Society will start looking up.
    - antihipocrat 3y ago
      A lot of people believe that life isn't unique to earth in the universe and I personally wouldn't face a reckoning by this being confirmed.. I would however face a reckoning if it were somehow proven that earth was unique.
ChrisClark 3y ago
Only a sentence or two of the article talks about life. The article is actually about the ancient lake bed and how they confirmed it and the technology used to find it.
- omarfarooq 3y ago
  Prospect of life tease in the headline and intro required to draw in the reader.
johnea 3y ago
I agree with the part of being sick of it, but I also wonder why it even matters. So what if there are microbes in the maritian soil? What difference does it make to us? Except possibly the worst invasive species incident in human history. At least this isn't into the total wing-nut fanatasyland of living on mars, which is one of the stupedest ideas proposed in modern time. Just bury a trucking container in Nevada and live in it, That's exactly what living on mars will be like, except the line of logistics will be much more practical.
- pfdietz 3y ago
  If life on Mars had a separate origin (say, with a different genetic code) it would be strong evidence that life is common in the universe. However, they'd need to rule out transfer of life between Mars and the early Earth. If they can't do that, this is still somewhat interesting, since it could mean life was transferred back and forth between Mars and Earth during that period. It might also mean there's still life deep in Mars' crust where liquid water can still exist, and that life could give more information on what early life was like (being another branch of our evolutionary tree).
- __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
  Nevada is not far away enough to keep you safe from all of the Earthlings who are angry that you destroyed their planet.
  - ffgjgf1 3y ago
    Whatever humans do to earth (based on current technological capabilities) it will still remain more habitable than Mars by a magnitude or two
    - __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
      Oh certainly, for most of us at least. But there's still potential for a pretty significant quality of life decrease. And... we're petty, so it's not too crazy to imagine that if you anger several billion of us by making it worse, then it might not be safe for you here. I don't think we're quite so coordinated as that at present, but who knows what the future holds.
jvanderbot 3y ago
As little as 20 years ago, the idea that Mars had a lake, like honest to God lake, or that we'd gather 1000s of exoplanet signatures, or that we'd find solid evidence of a liquid ocean on Europa. All of this would be bananas. It may not feel fast on the scale of a decade, but on the scale of my lifetime this is breakneck pace. Not fast enough now that I'm middle aged, but so fast. Everything is amazing, even if you already knew it was amazing, just let it be amazing.
- bongobingo1 3y ago
  Funny to think about how different people perceive the rate of change. Growing up before they landed on the moon, seeing a smudgy black and white blob walk around in a funny way to getting robots onto MARS, with "realtime" (radio-time) imagery is insane, the stuff of HG Wells. Growing up after the landing, with science fiction being a pervasive genre, color television, the internet, you can see how to some it might feel like a lot of hurry up and wait. The perspective of "one day, we might just see that moon up close" to "well duh we are going to mars."
- masswerk 3y ago
  On the other hand, much of this had always been anticipated. E.g, Fermi's question from 1950 and the Drake equation are essentially based on the presumption of exoplanets. Or, the sensors (automatic mini labs) of the Viking probes in the 1970s were essentially based on the assumption that any life on Mars would be based on water (which in turn includes the presumption that there either are or had been significant amounts of water, an assumption strong enough to include this equipment, in the first place.) What has changed, since, is sensor technology.
EdwardDiego 3y ago
It should gives impetus to further (and more targeted) effort - e.g., the killer evidence would be some kinda fossil, but what mechanisms of fossilisation would we expect to have existed on Mars? Perhaps stromatolites? We're still working out how to identify abiogenic stromatolites from biogenic ones. And where should we look? It's kinda hard to build a robot that can replicate a sunburned human wandering around hitting rocks with a pickaxe and looking thoughtful, and likewise, a probe that can take a core sample of a former lakebed is a very specialised probe, if it's even possible to build one that could drill deep enough to where any postulated evidence of life might be found.
OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
I think the Viking approach from 50 years ago was the right one: Send miniature labs to Mars and look for signatures. The Rovers are funky as all hell and the Skycrane is a masterpiece of engineering. Once down, they don't go very far or very fast and they look for biology-adjacent stuff instead of biology itself.
- uolmir 3y ago
  I think this can be seen as a change to acknowledge the need for context in order to make a robust (and hopefully correct) argument for possible evidence of life (fossil, trace, or otherwise). In all likelihood you're not going to find this uncontestable smoking gun and so you're going to need your robot geologist to collect much more than one sample in one place in order to rule out alternative interpretations. The Viking approach doesn't get you that.
idiotsecant 3y ago
Instead of reading a thousand titles if you read 2 or 3 articles you might have less headline fatigue.
brcmthrowaway 3y ago
Agreed! Mars is so boring, can we find alien civilizations already?

by bedobi 3y ago

tocs3 3y ago

I am also but the article is about the ancient lake also. It has some interesting GPR (radar) images.

smoldesu 3y ago

If martians had built anything cool there we would have known by now. It's just not very likely there's much interesting up there unless you're interested in the little things.

throwup238 3y ago
Unless it’s been buried and eroded by millions of years of dust storms
- rococode 3y ago
  Good ol' Silurian hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silurian_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silurian_hypothesis
  - throwup238 3y ago
    Silurian hypothesis is specific to Earth’s geologic record which we’ve sampled all over the world millions of times. It’s less ridiculous to posit the same happening on Mars where we’ve only sent awkward robotic explorers. We haven’t explored any of the lava tubes or done ground penetrating radar studies or cut thousands of core samples all over the planet so we really have no idea what’s buried there like we do on Earth.
EdwardDiego 3y ago
Ancient Martians - was the giant face visible from orbit we made with cleverly aimed meteorite impacts not enough for you? Oh sure, it's just a rock you say. Well duh, we had to make it with _something_. /s
yreg 3y ago
Who the hell on this forum isn't interested in the little things when the little things refer to alien life?!
- cryptoz 3y ago
  It's a lot of people here - HN does occasionally love a space story, but typically Mars stories are met with insults, sarcasm and vitriol for those who are interested in it. Edit: The effect is so strong, I have occasionally wondered if it is a concerted effort to get more people to start Mars startups, like nerd sniping. "Hurr you can't go to Mars like ever!!" -> "....just watch me". lol.
  - yreg 3y ago
    The parent didn't dismiss just this story. They seem to have pre-emptively dismissed the actual discovery of life on Mars if it were to ever happen, because it would be just the little things anyway…
mattlondon 3y ago
If there is any life - even just "little" single-cell microbial type life - that is a huge huge huge change for human society. We'd have actual proof that we are not the only life in the universe (even if just on Mars it may be microbial-like). Actual proof that we are not special or unique. I view it as like when a small baby/toddler realises that other people exist and that they are not the sole focus of the world's attention - a major development milestone.
- thordenmark 3y ago
  It will then have to be proved it isn't life from Earth that got there somehow, to really be that huge change for society.
  - Narishma 3y ago
    Or the other way around.
- echelon 3y ago
  That barely scratches the surface of how much society and life on earth will change. Religion, life's meaning, our place in the universe -- everyone will face an immediate reckoning here and have to reconcile their previous notions. But even more impactful is that we'll start to be able to make much better approximations of Fermi's Paradox. It might suggest that the universe is teeming with life. Then questions about how it evolves and reaches sentience will move to the forefront. We'll have much better ideas. We might start to get a little anxious about what's lurking out there, and we will probably start spending massively on space telescopes. Society will start looking up.
  - antihipocrat 3y ago
    A lot of people believe that life isn't unique to earth in the universe and I personally wouldn't face a reckoning by this being confirmed.. I would however face a reckoning if it were somehow proven that earth was unique.

ChrisClark 3y ago

Only a sentence or two of the article talks about life. The article is actually about the ancient lake bed and how they confirmed it and the technology used to find it.

omarfarooq 3y ago
Prospect of life tease in the headline and intro required to draw in the reader.

johnea 3y ago

I agree with the part of being sick of it, but I also wonder why it even matters. So what if there are microbes in the maritian soil? What difference does it make to us? Except possibly the worst invasive species incident in human history. At least this isn't into the total wing-nut fanatasyland of living on mars, which is one of the stupedest ideas proposed in modern time. Just bury a trucking container in Nevada and live in it, That's exactly what living on mars will be like, except the line of logistics will be much more practical.

pfdietz 3y ago
If life on Mars had a separate origin (say, with a different genetic code) it would be strong evidence that life is common in the universe. However, they'd need to rule out transfer of life between Mars and the early Earth. If they can't do that, this is still somewhat interesting, since it could mean life was transferred back and forth between Mars and Earth during that period. It might also mean there's still life deep in Mars' crust where liquid water can still exist, and that life could give more information on what early life was like (being another branch of our evolutionary tree).
__MatrixMan__ 3y ago
Nevada is not far away enough to keep you safe from all of the Earthlings who are angry that you destroyed their planet.
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  Whatever humans do to earth (based on current technological capabilities) it will still remain more habitable than Mars by a magnitude or two
  - __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
    Oh certainly, for most of us at least. But there's still potential for a pretty significant quality of life decrease. And... we're petty, so it's not too crazy to imagine that if you anger several billion of us by making it worse, then it might not be safe for you here. I don't think we're quite so coordinated as that at present, but who knows what the future holds.

jvanderbot 3y ago

As little as 20 years ago, the idea that Mars had a lake, like honest to God lake, or that we'd gather 1000s of exoplanet signatures, or that we'd find solid evidence of a liquid ocean on Europa. All of this would be bananas. It may not feel fast on the scale of a decade, but on the scale of my lifetime this is breakneck pace. Not fast enough now that I'm middle aged, but so fast. Everything is amazing, even if you already knew it was amazing, just let it be amazing.

bongobingo1 3y ago
Funny to think about how different people perceive the rate of change. Growing up before they landed on the moon, seeing a smudgy black and white blob walk around in a funny way to getting robots onto MARS, with "realtime" (radio-time) imagery is insane, the stuff of HG Wells. Growing up after the landing, with science fiction being a pervasive genre, color television, the internet, you can see how to some it might feel like a lot of hurry up and wait. The perspective of "one day, we might just see that moon up close" to "well duh we are going to mars."
masswerk 3y ago
On the other hand, much of this had always been anticipated. E.g, Fermi's question from 1950 and the Drake equation are essentially based on the presumption of exoplanets. Or, the sensors (automatic mini labs) of the Viking probes in the 1970s were essentially based on the assumption that any life on Mars would be based on water (which in turn includes the presumption that there either are or had been significant amounts of water, an assumption strong enough to include this equipment, in the first place.) What has changed, since, is sensor technology.

EdwardDiego 3y ago

It should gives impetus to further (and more targeted) effort - e.g., the killer evidence would be some kinda fossil, but what mechanisms of fossilisation would we expect to have existed on Mars? Perhaps stromatolites? We're still working out how to identify abiogenic stromatolites from biogenic ones. And where should we look? It's kinda hard to build a robot that can replicate a sunburned human wandering around hitting rocks with a pickaxe and looking thoughtful, and likewise, a probe that can take a core sample of a former lakebed is a very specialised probe, if it's even possible to build one that could drill deep enough to where any postulated evidence of life might be found.

OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago

I think the Viking approach from 50 years ago was the right one: Send miniature labs to Mars and look for signatures. The Rovers are funky as all hell and the Skycrane is a masterpiece of engineering. Once down, they don't go very far or very fast and they look for biology-adjacent stuff instead of biology itself.

uolmir 3y ago
I think this can be seen as a change to acknowledge the need for context in order to make a robust (and hopefully correct) argument for possible evidence of life (fossil, trace, or otherwise). In all likelihood you're not going to find this uncontestable smoking gun and so you're going to need your robot geologist to collect much more than one sample in one place in order to rule out alternative interpretations. The Viking approach doesn't get you that.

idiotsecant 3y ago

Instead of reading a thousand titles if you read 2 or 3 articles you might have less headline fatigue.

brcmthrowaway 3y ago

Agreed! Mars is so boring, can we find alien civilizations already?