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No car company has taken up Tesla's offer to license FSD

• simne 3y ago
  For me is mystery, how happen with Musk, so long time still have L2 ADAS which is not AUTONOMOUS DRIVING juridically? And car companies sure very critical for such things.
• pauljurczak 3y ago
  Does the license come with legal indemnity?
• clouddrover 3y ago
  > Elon Musk said it might be because they “still don’t believe it’s real.” That's because Musk has been lying about the state of full self-driving for years. False claims, staged videos, and continuous lies of "next year, for sure!" aren't a good way to go: https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/ https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-video-promoting-self-driving-was-staged-engineer-testifies-2023-01-17/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-video-promoting-sel... In 2016 Tesla claimed "that, as of today, all Tesla vehicles produced in our factory – including Model 3 – will have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver". That was a lie: https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now-have-full-self-driving-hardware https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now... Lying is part of the company culture at Tesla.
  • Terr_ 3y ago
    8 years of Elon promising things within a year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhr6fHmCJ6k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhr6fHmCJ6k The original Youtube link is dead (I wonder why) but as far as I can tell that one's a faithful copy.
• FireBeyond 3y ago
  Why would they ever? Leaving aside the vapourware angle, Musk is an immature person who would not hesitate to turn off access to FSD if a manufacturer pissed him off (like if they reduced advertising on X, for example). That is a huge continuity risk. And yes, then there's the software itself...
  • Terr_ 3y ago
    Yeah, AFAICT Tesla hasn't given any details about what the license terms would actually be, this is just Musk going: "Make me an offer and I'll think about working something out maybe." This ambiguity is pretty important given Musk's questionable history of self-promotion and construction/adherence of contracts.
  • gruez 3y ago
    >Musk is an immature person who would not hesitate to turn off access to FSD if a manufacturer pissed him off (like if they reduced advertising on X, for example). Presumably there will be a clause in the agreement that prevents this. Musk as erratic as he is, isn't going to ignore court orders. After all, he did eventually cough up the money to buy twitter.
    • COGlory 3y ago
      >Musk as erratic as he is, isn't going to ignore court orders https://www.reuters.com/legal/elon-musk-loses-bid-modify-throw-out-agreement-with-sec-over-tweets-2023-05-15/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/elon-musk-loses-bid-modify-thr...
      • gruez 3y ago
        From the article >A federal appeals court on Monday rejected Elon Musk's bid to modify or end his 2018 securities fraud settlement with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission that required a Tesla Inc (TSLA.O), opens new tab lawyer to approve some of his tweets in advance. Appealing a court decision is nowhere close to "ignoring court orders"
    • 3y ago
• WeylandYutani 3y ago
  If FSD is the future (personally I think we're fifty years away but whatever) why the hell would you hand that future over on a golden platter to Tesla? Any serious car maker would rather develop their own software to remain relevant.
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  • tschwimmer 3y ago
    There are a lot of 2nd-tier car makers that realistically can't develop the talent or organizational structure to developer their own self driving tech. The Toyotas/Volkswagons/GMs of the world aren't going to license this (yet) but maybe the Subarus, Mazdas, Dacias, etc would if they thought it would it would be a differentiating factor.
    • deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    • rockinghigh 3y ago
      Dacia is part of the Renault Group which itself is part of the Renault/Nissan alliance.
    • nradov 3y ago
      Toyota has a minority stake in Subaru. They share a lot of technology and even some complete vehicles.
• sidcool 3y ago
  There seems no balance in opinions when it comes to Tesla and Musk. It's either "Tesla is the greatest" or "Tesla is a Ponzi scheme". Yes, Tesla has made some false claims in the past. Their car quality has squandered. But they are also producing EVs at scale, something considered next to impossible for a new car entrant. Model Y is the best selling car of any kind. It's not a zero sum choice between "Destroy Tesla" vs "Save them at any cost".
  • clouddrover 3y ago
    > Yes, Tesla has made some false claims in the past. Tesla makes false claims in the present, even over things as trivial as quarter mile times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRYS5VWXZts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRYS5VWXZts https://insideevs.com/news/699260/tesla-cybertruck-porsche-race/ https://insideevs.com/news/699260/tesla-cybertruck-porsche-r... Lying is standard operating procedure for Musk and Tesla.
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  • callalex 3y ago
    There’s “making some false claims” and then there’s consistently and repeatedly lying for nearly a decade. https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/ https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/
    • ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
      Yes. I had the model s when it first came out. It was fantastic. Elon was a great model for an electric future. Then he kept lying and getting distracted. And then car manufacturing quality sort of never got really good. So I moved to the taycan when I wanted to get a new electric and it has been amazing.
  • iancmceachern 3y ago
    I'll bite. Where is the line then? What good justifies what "evil". Where is your line in the sand?
• two_handfuls 3y ago
  The FSD brand is damaged, it has negative value. Even before taking Elon’s personality into account, I’m not surprised car manufacturers are staying clear.
  • deadmutex 3y ago
    > FSD brand is damaged, it has negative value Citation needed
    • Libcat99 3y ago
      > Citation needed https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/24/24049848/no-car-company-has-taken-up-teslas-offer-to-license-fsd https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/24/24049848/no-car-company-h...
      • chii 3y ago
        that's not a citation. It's an article, written without scientific peer review, that is an opinion of the author.
        • DiscourseFan 3y ago
          I didn't realize we needed academic journals to evaluate brand image
        • Rebelgecko 3y ago
          What are you actually asking for?
        • iancmceachern 3y ago
          How about this? https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-ruined-tesla-technology-ford-gm-car-companies-evs-2023-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-ruined-tesla-techn...
    • latexr 3y ago
      https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-fsd-autopilot-crashes-investigations/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-fsd-autopilot-crashes-... > We've decided to consolidate all of these stories into one place, because, speaking frankly, if we gave every FSD- or Autopilot-related incident its own post, we'd have to rename our publication from MotorTrend to TeslaFSDAutopilotCrashTrend.
• happytiger 3y ago
  The issue is very simple here, but it has nothing to do with technology. The automotive road code is actually a very complicated thing, developed over long period of time. For example, here in California, the Caltrans organization has very large manuals about how to build things, and it’s really shaped by a whole lot of lawsuits that have happened over a very long period of time. These legal and regulatory frameworks and case examples have some nebulous risk when it comes to a product like FSD and need time to adapt to the self driving liability and legal landscape. One of the major things that’s holding up full self driving from a licensing perspective is this risk, with second movers waiting for the risk of this regulatory environment to unwind so that they don’t end up prematurely selecting a technology that hits a dead end or hitching themselves to a wagon that limits their options if things don’t go well. It’s a lot slower than people realize, with the friends that I have that do this as a specialty looking at 2040 as a target, for example in one case, or 2035 with another. These are PEs. The people that that I know that are involved in these cases, as professional engineers, really, don’t see the legal and regulatory framework catching up with the technology for some time. This is often the case. The paperwork don’t catch up right away. ;) So you can imagine that the idea of locking yourself into one companies’ntechnology, and hitching your investors cash to the risk profile of Tesla in particular, which is fairly high, is not real attractive when you’re still waiting to see how things turn out with the larger regulatory framework. And that’s why you’re not gonna see a lot of people jumping in until market pressures make it so difficult that they have to, because the incentives push for them to delay as long as possible before making a commitment to see how things are headed.
  • __m 3y ago
    > the legal and regulatory framework catching up with the technology for some time Is that true though? What legal framework do you have in mind? Immunity? That’s never going to happen.
    • happytiger 3y ago
      No. It’s the great big book of how roads are built. It’s the roads that aren’t ready for electric cars. It’s those rules that need to catch up.
• pylua 3y ago
  Does the license say that Tesla will be liable for issues and accidents caused if deemed to be faulty?
  • latexr 3y ago
    Even if the license said that, would you trust Musk to honour that and not try to come up with excuses why the issue wasn’t with Tesla’s system, but something caused by the other car maker or driver?
    • pylua 3y ago
      I wouldn’t trust any company for that, musk or not. I would expect a court case. I could see companies being nervous about this.
    • foofie 3y ago
      > Even if the license said that, would you trust Musk to honour that (...) Based on the news, Elon Musk isn't even to be trusted to pay rent, severance packages, or even salaries.
• guidedlight 3y ago
  Once I see Tesla’s FSD able to replace humans in chaotic environments like Vietnamese cities, let me know. Until then it is only a gimmick.
  • fragmede 3y ago
    A gimmick means they're doing it just for the attention, but even if it can't handle the challenging scenario of the Vietnam urban traffic environment, the fact that it is able to navigate traffic in the US means it's currently useful for the people that live there. if it's being used, it doesn't seem like it's just for the attention.
• albert180 3y ago
  I wonder why no one wants to license a L2 ADAS when everyone else already has moved on to L3 systems? It's a mystery