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I was chatting with a friend a long time ago about what, hypothetically, we thought we might find if we actually did encounter extraterrestrial technology from

by api 3y ago

I was chatting with a friend a long time ago about what, hypothetically, we thought we might find if we actually did encounter extraterrestrial technology from something millions or billions of years older than ourselves. My thought was: software defined matter. This would be matter structured down to nano-scales or even below into the realm of the subatomic such that its characteristics and behavior can be dialed in with a software update. There would be no such thing as a bill of materials. To manufacture something just get a bunch of this stuff and load the right firmware into it. It could also likely self-reconfigure dynamically, at least to some extent, though one might see some cases where certain forms become limiting in the same way that stem cell differentiation is not always reversible. The protomolecule from The Expanse is maybe the closest thing I've seen in fiction.

genman 3y ago
I think there are elements of this in many places but the focus is not explicitly on these details. It mainly revolves around some form of armor.
satori99 3y ago
Alastair Reynolds Revelation Space novels describe a near future where humanity has achieved a similar level of molecular tech they called `Quickmatter`. Entire cities are built with it, until a particularly nasty virus which makes no distinction between biological or molecular machines (or even software), becomes an existential problem. https://revelationspace.fandom.com/wiki/Quickmatter https://revelationspace.fandom.com/wiki/Quickmatter
- dekhn 3y ago
  BTW the latest Reynolds book set in that universe was just released: https://www.amazon.com/Machine-Vendetta-Prefect-Dreyfus-Emergencies-ebook/dp/B0BRJ692Y6 https://www.amazon.com/Machine-Vendetta-Prefect-Dreyfus-Emer... although IMHO nothing will ever beat Chasm City which is based around the alien nanoscale virus.
dekhn 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_Plenty_of_Room_at_the_Bottom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_Plenty_of_Room_at_th... and what Drexler wrote after. Note: feynman challenged engineers to make an engine 1/64th of inch (cubed) and it was done in 1960 using conventional microscale tooling of the time. Also, lithography was a much more profitable approach to nanoscale than tiny machines, at least so far.
devindotcom 3y ago
You might want to read "His Master's Voice" or "Roadside Picnic" by Stanislaw Lem. The first one especially concerns what you're talking about, and the second (basis for "Stalker") is a little more of a tangent on it. Same for "Solaris" honestly. Lem's perspective on cosmic unknowable intelligence was really unique.
- abecedarius 3y ago
  Roadside Picnic was by the Strugatsky brothers. (Lem wrote some other relevant things, yes -- maybe particularly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summa_Technologiae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summa_Technologiae which I haven't read.)
  - devindotcom 3y ago
    Of course you're right, my mistake. And it's sitting right here next to me... embarrassing. Anyhow, all worth reading.
- persnickety 3y ago
  Lem wrote about software-defined matter in a more humorous way in Observation on the Spot. It was an exploration of a society whose needs are automatically fulfilled.
loa_in_ 3y ago
Doctor Who episode Smile is about a human city of the future built autonomously before the colony arrived, including farming crops. It was made by self reconfiguring microscopic robots that themselves became the structures and were free to disassemble back into a cloud of a tiny flying units.
r3trohack3r 3y ago
Neil Greshenfeld of MIT's Center for Bits and Atoms was recently on the Lex Friedman podcast to talk about self-assembling robots, FabLabs, and the future of last mile manufacturing. It's very close to what you're talking about here. Breaking the material/tech of civilization down into a small number (double digits) of building blocks that can bootstrap a process of converting the building blocks into assemblers of assemblers for manufacturing. It is a fascinating listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDjOS0VHEr4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDjOS0VHEr4
PaulHoule 3y ago
Advanced space travel requires advanced manufacturing. I think of some of the old Doc Smith books like https://www.gutenberg.org/files/20857/20857-h/20857-h.htm https://www.gutenberg.org/files/20857/20857-h/20857-h.htm where some man gets shipwrecked on a planetoid with a beautiful woman and has to reconstruct technology from the foundation to repair his ship, or where the evil villain Blackie DuQuense stops on Earth to load up his spaceship with machine tools so he can build a bigger spaceship. I thought about how you would build solar sails from a carbonaceous chondrite asteroid (I’ve been telling it people it’s coal for so long…) and you would possibly have a chemical factory that makes syngas to make organic compounds, reduce metals and such. You could probably make storage tanks and pipes from indigenous materials (though unfortunately you might want to degas the whole asteroid before the metal line is up) but you are going to have to bring some parts from Earth. And if you have to wait to get parts the project is set back years. That is why Eric Drexler gave up on the idea of making this kind of space colony (see 1:36) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ1X3X_pZGY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ1X3X_pZGY with Gerard K O’Neil around the time that anime was made and got to thinking about nanotechnology with assemblers.
- AlotOfReading 3y ago
  I'm not convinced that "sufficiently advanced" technology as the grandparent comment posits requires the kind of industrial manufacturing base we (or our foreseeable descendants) will need. Think about how that other programmable matter, biology works. Organisms don't need big factories to turn basic environmental resources into sophisticated structures, only chemistry, cells, and "programming". There's nothing in principle stopping us from building similar systems for space exploration besides our own ignorance and primitive technology.
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    There was a paper that came out recently that said that at an oxygen level a little lower than the Earth you can still respire but you can’t start a fire, which blocks technology. One could posit some kind of “biotechnology” for instance which could be based on life as we know it or with something like the DNA-RNA-Amino Acid complex with different molecules (it is already possible to change the amino acids repitoire.). How you get there without fire is unclear but it looks like something we can do.
aoanla 3y ago
Adding to the replies which list SF examples of this idea: The Collapsium (Wil McCarthy) has a plot built on a combination of this idea and extrapolation of the consequences of the fringe theory that gravity is really due to high frequency quantum oscillations. (Almost everything in it's future is made of configurable quantum dot "pseudo-atoms" that can be reconfigured to states that don't exist in natural atoms.)

by api 3y ago

genman 3y ago

I think there are elements of this in many places but the focus is not explicitly on these details. It mainly revolves around some form of armor.

satori99 3y ago

Alastair Reynolds Revelation Space novels describe a near future where humanity has achieved a similar level of molecular tech they called `Quickmatter`. Entire cities are built with it, until a particularly nasty virus which makes no distinction between biological or molecular machines (or even software), becomes an existential problem. https://revelationspace.fandom.com/wiki/Quickmatter https://revelationspace.fandom.com/wiki/Quickmatter

dekhn 3y ago
BTW the latest Reynolds book set in that universe was just released: https://www.amazon.com/Machine-Vendetta-Prefect-Dreyfus-Emergencies-ebook/dp/B0BRJ692Y6 https://www.amazon.com/Machine-Vendetta-Prefect-Dreyfus-Emer... although IMHO nothing will ever beat Chasm City which is based around the alien nanoscale virus.

dekhn 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_Plenty_of_Room_at_the_Bottom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_Plenty_of_Room_at_th... and what Drexler wrote after. Note: feynman challenged engineers to make an engine 1/64th of inch (cubed) and it was done in 1960 using conventional microscale tooling of the time. Also, lithography was a much more profitable approach to nanoscale than tiny machines, at least so far.

devindotcom 3y ago

You might want to read "His Master's Voice" or "Roadside Picnic" by Stanislaw Lem. The first one especially concerns what you're talking about, and the second (basis for "Stalker") is a little more of a tangent on it. Same for "Solaris" honestly. Lem's perspective on cosmic unknowable intelligence was really unique.

abecedarius 3y ago
Roadside Picnic was by the Strugatsky brothers. (Lem wrote some other relevant things, yes -- maybe particularly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summa_Technologiae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summa_Technologiae which I haven't read.)
- devindotcom 3y ago
  Of course you're right, my mistake. And it's sitting right here next to me... embarrassing. Anyhow, all worth reading.
persnickety 3y ago
Lem wrote about software-defined matter in a more humorous way in Observation on the Spot. It was an exploration of a society whose needs are automatically fulfilled.

loa_in_ 3y ago

Doctor Who episode Smile is about a human city of the future built autonomously before the colony arrived, including farming crops. It was made by self reconfiguring microscopic robots that themselves became the structures and were free to disassemble back into a cloud of a tiny flying units.

r3trohack3r 3y ago

Neil Greshenfeld of MIT's Center for Bits and Atoms was recently on the Lex Friedman podcast to talk about self-assembling robots, FabLabs, and the future of last mile manufacturing. It's very close to what you're talking about here. Breaking the material/tech of civilization down into a small number (double digits) of building blocks that can bootstrap a process of converting the building blocks into assemblers of assemblers for manufacturing. It is a fascinating listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDjOS0VHEr4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDjOS0VHEr4

PaulHoule 3y ago

Advanced space travel requires advanced manufacturing. I think of some of the old Doc Smith books like https://www.gutenberg.org/files/20857/20857-h/20857-h.htm https://www.gutenberg.org/files/20857/20857-h/20857-h.htm where some man gets shipwrecked on a planetoid with a beautiful woman and has to reconstruct technology from the foundation to repair his ship, or where the evil villain Blackie DuQuense stops on Earth to load up his spaceship with machine tools so he can build a bigger spaceship. I thought about how you would build solar sails from a carbonaceous chondrite asteroid (I’ve been telling it people it’s coal for so long…) and you would possibly have a chemical factory that makes syngas to make organic compounds, reduce metals and such. You could probably make storage tanks and pipes from indigenous materials (though unfortunately you might want to degas the whole asteroid before the metal line is up) but you are going to have to bring some parts from Earth. And if you have to wait to get parts the project is set back years. That is why Eric Drexler gave up on the idea of making this kind of space colony (see 1:36) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ1X3X_pZGY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ1X3X_pZGY with Gerard K O’Neil around the time that anime was made and got to thinking about nanotechnology with assemblers.

AlotOfReading 3y ago
I'm not convinced that "sufficiently advanced" technology as the grandparent comment posits requires the kind of industrial manufacturing base we (or our foreseeable descendants) will need. Think about how that other programmable matter, biology works. Organisms don't need big factories to turn basic environmental resources into sophisticated structures, only chemistry, cells, and "programming". There's nothing in principle stopping us from building similar systems for space exploration besides our own ignorance and primitive technology.
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  There was a paper that came out recently that said that at an oxygen level a little lower than the Earth you can still respire but you can’t start a fire, which blocks technology. One could posit some kind of “biotechnology” for instance which could be based on life as we know it or with something like the DNA-RNA-Amino Acid complex with different molecules (it is already possible to change the amino acids repitoire.). How you get there without fire is unclear but it looks like something we can do.

aoanla 3y ago

Adding to the replies which list SF examples of this idea: The Collapsium (Wil McCarthy) has a plot built on a combination of this idea and extrapolation of the consequences of the fringe theory that gravity is really due to high frequency quantum oscillations. (Almost everything in it's future is made of configurable quantum dot "pseudo-atoms" that can be reconfigured to states that don't exist in natural atoms.)