4 ms·

They could do both: tax internal consumption to discourage use and bulk up renewables and export more. Would help counter all the manufacturing jobs outsourced

They could do both: tax internal consumption to discourage use and bulk up renewables and export more. Would help counter all the manufacturing jobs outsourced elsewhere. But Americans (and many others) love income taxes (ie: work and value creation) instead of non-renewable energy taxes for some reason.

nomel 3y ago
In California, we're right around $1.20/gallon for fees and taxes. From what I've experienced, it helps keep the poor poor, and motivates the rich to buy luxury electric vehicles.
- pmontra 3y ago
  In Europe it's more like 1.7 Euro per liter. It's 3.75 liters to one US gallon if I'm not wrong.
  - throwaway5959 3y ago
    That’s more than double what people in the midwestern United States pay for gas, about a dollar more per gallon than CA. Makes it easy to see why economically it makes sense to keep your car longer and just keep burning gas in the Midwest.
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      For the uninitiated across the pond, California has one of if not the highest gas prices in the country; this is still cheap by international standards.
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      But the euro cars have double the mpg (half the l/100km), sooo, it’s really a wash on that front. (Ok, not quite that, but Portugal has the most efficient euro vehicles and uses 43% less fuel than average US vehicle: https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/market-snapshots/2019/market-snapshot-how-does-canada-rank-in-terms-vehicle-fuel-economy.html https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/ma... )
  - nomel 3y ago
    I would claim that this doesn't have the same effect on the poor, in Europe, since there's an alternative: public transportation. In many regions of America, including California, there's often no viable public transportation*. You still need to drive, and if you're poor, you usually have a less-than-efficient car, and you have long commutes because you can't afford to live close to the city. Again, this is all from experience. Large gas price changes always hurt my family the most. Now that I'm wealthy, I, along with the majority of people at work, have a luxury electric car, partly to avoid the high gas prices. I'm guessing the downvotes are in the "wealthy" category, and giggled, as I did, when they silently passed by gas stations these last few years. * As an example, where I am now, commute by car is 24 minutes. Commute by public transportation is 3 hours.
    - pmontra 3y ago
      Gas prices hit everything, not only private cars. Gas and diesel go up and down in price together so it's all the items traveling on trucks to supermarkets where the poors find increased prices. Before that, gas moves the machines used in agricolture and fishing ships. There are probably many other impacts but you should get the idea.
- dietr1ch 3y ago
  You'd think that rent and low wages is what keeps the poor poor. Gas in CA is cheap anyway.
  - nomel 3y ago
    I didn't mean to suggest it's one thing. Countries with expensive gas usually have public transportation, but that's mostly unusable here, and sprawl means affordable housing is far from the work, so there's a lot more required commuting for people who would, in Europe, be taking public transport. Gas is $4.80/gallos ($1.26/L) where I am, right now. That's not all that "cheap", even by European standards, when you consider average commute distance is around double (according to a quick search).
- anovikov 3y ago
  In Europe actual tax is like $7 per gallon and gas price, over $10 per gallon with people making about 1.5x less after tax. Fuel needs to be very pricey to discourage consumption and help move to renewables faster.

nomel 3y ago

In California, we're right around $1.20/gallon for fees and taxes. From what I've experienced, it helps keep the poor poor, and motivates the rich to buy luxury electric vehicles.

pmontra 3y ago
In Europe it's more like 1.7 Euro per liter. It's 3.75 liters to one US gallon if I'm not wrong.
- throwaway5959 3y ago
  That’s more than double what people in the midwestern United States pay for gas, about a dollar more per gallon than CA. Makes it easy to see why economically it makes sense to keep your car longer and just keep burning gas in the Midwest.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    For the uninitiated across the pond, California has one of if not the highest gas prices in the country; this is still cheap by international standards.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    But the euro cars have double the mpg (half the l/100km), sooo, it’s really a wash on that front. (Ok, not quite that, but Portugal has the most efficient euro vehicles and uses 43% less fuel than average US vehicle: https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/market-snapshots/2019/market-snapshot-how-does-canada-rank-in-terms-vehicle-fuel-economy.html https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/ma... )
- nomel 3y ago
  I would claim that this doesn't have the same effect on the poor, in Europe, since there's an alternative: public transportation. In many regions of America, including California, there's often no viable public transportation*. You still need to drive, and if you're poor, you usually have a less-than-efficient car, and you have long commutes because you can't afford to live close to the city. Again, this is all from experience. Large gas price changes always hurt my family the most. Now that I'm wealthy, I, along with the majority of people at work, have a luxury electric car, partly to avoid the high gas prices. I'm guessing the downvotes are in the "wealthy" category, and giggled, as I did, when they silently passed by gas stations these last few years. * As an example, where I am now, commute by car is 24 minutes. Commute by public transportation is 3 hours.
  - pmontra 3y ago
    Gas prices hit everything, not only private cars. Gas and diesel go up and down in price together so it's all the items traveling on trucks to supermarkets where the poors find increased prices. Before that, gas moves the machines used in agricolture and fishing ships. There are probably many other impacts but you should get the idea.
dietr1ch 3y ago
You'd think that rent and low wages is what keeps the poor poor. Gas in CA is cheap anyway.
- nomel 3y ago
  I didn't mean to suggest it's one thing. Countries with expensive gas usually have public transportation, but that's mostly unusable here, and sprawl means affordable housing is far from the work, so there's a lot more required commuting for people who would, in Europe, be taking public transport. Gas is $4.80/gallos ($1.26/L) where I am, right now. That's not all that "cheap", even by European standards, when you consider average commute distance is around double (according to a quick search).
anovikov 3y ago
In Europe actual tax is like $7 per gallon and gas price, over $10 per gallon with people making about 1.5x less after tax. Fuel needs to be very pricey to discourage consumption and help move to renewables faster.