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There is another angle here besides the immediate impact (pun intended) of getting hit by a big truck. I'm nearly 60, but I can remember what it was like learn

There is another angle here besides the immediate impact (pun intended) of getting hit by a big truck. I'm nearly 60, but I can remember what it was like learning to drive back in 1980. Before SUVs and huge pickup trucks became common, and before tinting windows to near opacity became a thing, it was possible to see road conditions three cars ahead -- you simply looked through the windows of the car or cars in front of you. I found it unnerving to drive behind a delivery truck because all I could see of the road was the back of the truck, so I'd change lanes so I could have more advanced notice of what was ahead of me. These days that is mostly over: windows are too opaque, and very often that is moot because the vehicle immediately before me is well above my Corolla's vantage point.

aidenn0 3y ago
Non-trucks attempting a right-turn-on-red next to trucks are also more likely to hit a pedestrian, though if they are driving in a sane manner, it's unlikely to be fatal. I cannot see a pedestrian over the hood of a truck stopped just short of the crosswalk until my bumper is already well into the crosswalk.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  Not nearly as bad as hitting someone, but it's also annoying when a person is honking behind me and I'm thinking "Dude, I can't turn right until the light turns green because I can't see oncoming traffic since the truck/SUV in the left lane pulled forward.".
  - Zancarius 3y ago
    Oh, I've been honked a few times in the past few months right after pulling up to a light just after it turned red and the cross traffic has a green light. It's like... "you really expect me to pull out INTO traffic because you're so impatient?!" The first time it happened the person kept hitting their horn until they saw the cross traffic. Amazing.
stefan_ 3y ago
Streets haven't gotten wider since then either. Maybe less of a problem in the US where everything is planned around humongous fire trucks, but in the EU if you had a street that could easily accommodate two moving lanes with parking on either side, that has basically narrowed down to one moving lane. Also reminds me of all the regulation around car lights - you literally specified the beam pattern light intensity color and what not, but you couldn't be bothered to narrowly restrict the height off the ground? Great, now everyone in a sedan is being blinded by all sorts of SUVs and trucks. Utter failure.
- Jayakumark 3y ago
  To add to it, they should put a limit on Lumens on Headlight something like not to exceed 2000 lumens, Also its temperature should be 3000k range like old cars but new ones are like 8000k. yesterday night - saw a light that must be atleast 20000 lumens its like watching sun, cant see anything for a few seconds.
  - _puk 3y ago
    They (The RAC[0]) are actually pushing for regulation here in the UK along those lines. There seems to be quite a push from the public to do something, so maybe it'll change one day.. "According to the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, between the ages of 15 and 65, the time it takes to recover from glare increases from one to nine seconds. At 60 miles an hour, that’s 250 yards in nine seconds. Baroness Hayter said: "The Group’s first interaction with Ministers led them to say: No problem here, no evidence of deaths or serious injuries. Since then, the public have reached out to tell us they disagree, and that many are stopping driving at night, with eight out of 10 drivers surveyed wanting action to reduce glare. "We know other countries share our concern, with drivers demanding action. The Government needs to heed our call for action and be on the side of road safety." 0: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/drivers-demand-government-action-to-reduce-glare-from-car-headlights/ https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/drivers-deman...
- Zancarius 3y ago
  > Great, now everyone in a sedan is being blinded by all sorts of SUVs and trucks. Utter failure. I drive a truck and live in a mountainous area. Trust me, it's not just sedans. Nearly everyone drives around with their brights on and it seems they no longer bother to turn them down when approaching traffic (automatic dimming features don't work well up here). Consequently, night time driving is dangerous. I don't know what their advertised beam pattern is, but it's like driving passed spotlights aimed at your eyes while on the road when you're on the outside lane. FWIW mine are halogens (2014). Plenty bright (and aim-able—for towing), but they're useless when you're temporarily blinded by super bright LEDs.
wharvle 3y ago
Windows and front/back windshields are way smaller now, too. It's like we're all driving around looking out of tank-viewport-slits. (I'm sure there are exceptions in some models—I drove a buddy's Jeep-truck the other day and the unusually-good-by-modern-standards visibility nearly turned me into a Jeep guy on the spot—but that's the trend)
- hwillis 3y ago
  Hmm. I'm not sure how true that is, but that might be a perception thing because hoods have gotten longer and windshields have gotten more slanted. Being farther from the front of the car/windshield makes your view angle smaller even if the height of the window hasn't changed. Surprisingly, sloped windows are more of a safety thing than a fuel efficiency or aerodynamics thing. If the windshield is too sloped, it acts like a wedge that throws air up above the car and causes a ton of turbulence. It's more important that the airflow stays stuck to the top surface of the car, and a steeper windshield helps with that.
  - wharvle 3y ago
    OK, the glass may or may not be smaller on the windshield and rear (I haven't measured, and yeah, a greater slant could be the mechanism, not less glass) but the viewable area is smaller. Side windows are 100% for-sure smaller, because all the structures around them have gotten much thicker.
- mturmon 3y ago
  Yes. As you may know, recent safety regulations prompted by rollover incidents have meant that the "A" and "C" pillars connecting the body to the roof have been made wider. [See the first 2 paragraphs of the "Design" section of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_(car) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_(car) ] It seems like there's a second-order effect here on visibility that may not have been really appreciated.
  - epage 3y ago
    With my previous car, I never remember having visibility issues. I then got a 2013. The pillars aie ierfect pedestian blockerr, especially when making turns. I don't see how me doing better in a roll over is better than me running someone over.
burnerburnson 3y ago
I regularly pass people on the right and then cut them off getting back into the left lane just so that I don't have to be stuck behind someone I can't see around. The tinted front/rear windows really piss me off because they make my drive more dangerous for very little reason. I'd make them illegal if it were up to me.
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  >I'd make them illegal if it were up to me. They mostly are (at least the front windshield is), it's just not really enforced.
- el_benhameen 3y ago
  Tinted front windshields are illegal in California, among other states, fwiw. The law just isn’t enforced, just like modded exhaust, and residential speed limits … and passing on the right.
  - Stratoscope 3y ago
    It's perfectly legal in California to safely pass on the right on a multilane highway and in some other situations. What is illegal is using anything other than a normal traffic lane to do this, such as the shoulder. Of course this does not excuse GP's practice where "I regularly pass people on the right and then cut them off getting back into the left lane..." Unless I misunderstood GP's comment, that sounds like reckless driving. Source: CVC 21754. The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only under the following conditions: (c) Upon any highway outside of a business or residence district with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width and clearly marked for two or more lines of moving traffic in the direction of travel. CVC 21755. (a) The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass another vehicle upon the right only under conditions permitting that movement in safety. In no event shall that movement be made by driving off the paved or main-traveled portion of the roadway. [other subsections omitted here, see below for full text] https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2022/code-veh/division-11/chapter-3/article-3/section-21754/ https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2022/code-veh/divisi... https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2022/code-veh/division-11/chapter-3/article-3/section-21755/ https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2022/code-veh/divisi...
Symbiote 3y ago
It's even more noticeable cycling. An adult on a bicycle has their head just above roof level of an ordinary car, which is excellent as it gives a view of cars coming the other way. I go through the area where all the really rich people live, and it's easy to see over their sports cars, luxury sedans etc. Continuing through the wannabe-rich area, my view is then blocked by SUVs and similar. (Whether this is important depends mostly on how well separated car and bicycle traffic is.)
gardenhedge 3y ago
Just stay well enough back from the car in front of you and you'll be fine..
mbostleman 3y ago
I think that's more of a function of the relative difference between the sizes of your vehicle and the other vehicle, not the absolute size of the other vehicle. The relative size is a big factor in why mixing bikes with cars is so deadly. The other one, of course, is relative speed. Years ago I got my CDL and there was a multiple choice question to the effect of what is the safest speed to drive. Three of the answers were all relative to the speed limit and the correct answer was relative to other traffic: the safest speed is the speed of the cars around you, or zero relative speed.
cyckl 3y ago
This is one of the reasons I daily drive a 1990 BMW 325i—the visibility is just unparalleled.
- porkbeer 3y ago
  Same with most 90s cars. My old honda is practically a greenhouse, and was ctitisized for its c pillar at the time.
- okdood64 3y ago
  Even with the increase visibility, I'm sure you'd be much safer in a 2020 BMW 3-series. Heck even a 2010.
  - AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
    [dead]
  - jewayne 3y ago
    The occupants of the vehicle would be safer, but what if your main worry is hitting pedestrians during in-city driving? If that was my worry, I would greatly prefer the 1990 model.
Shocka1 3y ago
I've noticed this too and this is why I leave at least 5 car lengths in front of me, sometimes even more. I can see around the vehicle in front of me no problem, and can absorb the energy for those rush hour random stops. It seems like 9 out of 10 people follow with less than 3 car lengths, even at 60 to 80mph. This leaves no room for error and anecdotally I've seen it bite people many times. The 5+ car length strategy has served me extremely well in many years of a 2 hour commute. I can't remember once where I had to panic brake due to being surprised by a random 70mph to 0mph stop, and I can only assume that I'm helping drivers behind me get to their destination safely as well due to absorbing that slinky effect. The only con is people jump in front of me here and there, but that doesn't bother me one bit.
- bombcar 3y ago
  People way overplay the “everyone will cut in front of you” if you leave five or more spaces - it really will only happen in literal stop-and-go traffic where you are going five miles per hour anyway.
  - fennecbutt 3y ago
    I love the "people will pull in front of you" that people make. That's what the road is for! On a multi lane road of course people can pull in front of you, that's how driving works. All people gotta do is drop back a little so there's a proper gap again. People get so hot under the collar, chill pill my dudes. Obv not directed at OP, only at the people that make that argument.

aidenn0 3y ago

Non-trucks attempting a right-turn-on-red next to trucks are also more likely to hit a pedestrian, though if they are driving in a sane manner, it's unlikely to be fatal. I cannot see a pedestrian over the hood of a truck stopped just short of the crosswalk until my bumper is already well into the crosswalk.

anonymouskimmer 3y ago
Not nearly as bad as hitting someone, but it's also annoying when a person is honking behind me and I'm thinking "Dude, I can't turn right until the light turns green because I can't see oncoming traffic since the truck/SUV in the left lane pulled forward.".
- Zancarius 3y ago
  Oh, I've been honked a few times in the past few months right after pulling up to a light just after it turned red and the cross traffic has a green light. It's like... "you really expect me to pull out INTO traffic because you're so impatient?!" The first time it happened the person kept hitting their horn until they saw the cross traffic. Amazing.

stefan_ 3y ago

Streets haven't gotten wider since then either. Maybe less of a problem in the US where everything is planned around humongous fire trucks, but in the EU if you had a street that could easily accommodate two moving lanes with parking on either side, that has basically narrowed down to one moving lane. Also reminds me of all the regulation around car lights - you literally specified the beam pattern light intensity color and what not, but you couldn't be bothered to narrowly restrict the height off the ground? Great, now everyone in a sedan is being blinded by all sorts of SUVs and trucks. Utter failure.

Jayakumark 3y ago
To add to it, they should put a limit on Lumens on Headlight something like not to exceed 2000 lumens, Also its temperature should be 3000k range like old cars but new ones are like 8000k. yesterday night - saw a light that must be atleast 20000 lumens its like watching sun, cant see anything for a few seconds.
- _puk 3y ago
  They (The RAC[0]) are actually pushing for regulation here in the UK along those lines. There seems to be quite a push from the public to do something, so maybe it'll change one day.. "According to the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, between the ages of 15 and 65, the time it takes to recover from glare increases from one to nine seconds. At 60 miles an hour, that’s 250 yards in nine seconds. Baroness Hayter said: "The Group’s first interaction with Ministers led them to say: No problem here, no evidence of deaths or serious injuries. Since then, the public have reached out to tell us they disagree, and that many are stopping driving at night, with eight out of 10 drivers surveyed wanting action to reduce glare. "We know other countries share our concern, with drivers demanding action. The Government needs to heed our call for action and be on the side of road safety." 0: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/drivers-demand-government-action-to-reduce-glare-from-car-headlights/ https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/drivers-deman...
Zancarius 3y ago
> Great, now everyone in a sedan is being blinded by all sorts of SUVs and trucks. Utter failure. I drive a truck and live in a mountainous area. Trust me, it's not just sedans. Nearly everyone drives around with their brights on and it seems they no longer bother to turn them down when approaching traffic (automatic dimming features don't work well up here). Consequently, night time driving is dangerous. I don't know what their advertised beam pattern is, but it's like driving passed spotlights aimed at your eyes while on the road when you're on the outside lane. FWIW mine are halogens (2014). Plenty bright (and aim-able—for towing), but they're useless when you're temporarily blinded by super bright LEDs.

wharvle 3y ago

Windows and front/back windshields are way smaller now, too. It's like we're all driving around looking out of tank-viewport-slits. (I'm sure there are exceptions in some models—I drove a buddy's Jeep-truck the other day and the unusually-good-by-modern-standards visibility nearly turned me into a Jeep guy on the spot—but that's the trend)

hwillis 3y ago
Hmm. I'm not sure how true that is, but that might be a perception thing because hoods have gotten longer and windshields have gotten more slanted. Being farther from the front of the car/windshield makes your view angle smaller even if the height of the window hasn't changed. Surprisingly, sloped windows are more of a safety thing than a fuel efficiency or aerodynamics thing. If the windshield is too sloped, it acts like a wedge that throws air up above the car and causes a ton of turbulence. It's more important that the airflow stays stuck to the top surface of the car, and a steeper windshield helps with that.
- wharvle 3y ago
  OK, the glass may or may not be smaller on the windshield and rear (I haven't measured, and yeah, a greater slant could be the mechanism, not less glass) but the viewable area is smaller. Side windows are 100% for-sure smaller, because all the structures around them have gotten much thicker.
mturmon 3y ago
Yes. As you may know, recent safety regulations prompted by rollover incidents have meant that the "A" and "C" pillars connecting the body to the roof have been made wider. [See the first 2 paragraphs of the "Design" section of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_(car) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_(car) ] It seems like there's a second-order effect here on visibility that may not have been really appreciated.
- epage 3y ago
  With my previous car, I never remember having visibility issues. I then got a 2013. The pillars aie ierfect pedestian blockerr, especially when making turns. I don't see how me doing better in a roll over is better than me running someone over.

burnerburnson 3y ago

I regularly pass people on the right and then cut them off getting back into the left lane just so that I don't have to be stuck behind someone I can't see around. The tinted front/rear windows really piss me off because they make my drive more dangerous for very little reason. I'd make them illegal if it were up to me.

BobaFloutist 3y ago
>I'd make them illegal if it were up to me. They mostly are (at least the front windshield is), it's just not really enforced.
el_benhameen 3y ago
Tinted front windshields are illegal in California, among other states, fwiw. The law just isn’t enforced, just like modded exhaust, and residential speed limits … and passing on the right.
- Stratoscope 3y ago
  It's perfectly legal in California to safely pass on the right on a multilane highway and in some other situations. What is illegal is using anything other than a normal traffic lane to do this, such as the shoulder. Of course this does not excuse GP's practice where "I regularly pass people on the right and then cut them off getting back into the left lane..." Unless I misunderstood GP's comment, that sounds like reckless driving. Source: CVC 21754. The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only under the following conditions: (c) Upon any highway outside of a business or residence district with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width and clearly marked for two or more lines of moving traffic in the direction of travel. CVC 21755. (a) The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass another vehicle upon the right only under conditions permitting that movement in safety. In no event shall that movement be made by driving off the paved or main-traveled portion of the roadway. [other subsections omitted here, see below for full text] https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2022/code-veh/division-11/chapter-3/article-3/section-21754/ https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2022/code-veh/divisi... https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2022/code-veh/division-11/chapter-3/article-3/section-21755/ https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2022/code-veh/divisi...

Symbiote 3y ago

It's even more noticeable cycling. An adult on a bicycle has their head just above roof level of an ordinary car, which is excellent as it gives a view of cars coming the other way. I go through the area where all the really rich people live, and it's easy to see over their sports cars, luxury sedans etc. Continuing through the wannabe-rich area, my view is then blocked by SUVs and similar. (Whether this is important depends mostly on how well separated car and bicycle traffic is.)

gardenhedge 3y ago

Just stay well enough back from the car in front of you and you'll be fine..

mbostleman 3y ago

I think that's more of a function of the relative difference between the sizes of your vehicle and the other vehicle, not the absolute size of the other vehicle. The relative size is a big factor in why mixing bikes with cars is so deadly. The other one, of course, is relative speed. Years ago I got my CDL and there was a multiple choice question to the effect of what is the safest speed to drive. Three of the answers were all relative to the speed limit and the correct answer was relative to other traffic: the safest speed is the speed of the cars around you, or zero relative speed.

cyckl 3y ago

This is one of the reasons I daily drive a 1990 BMW 325i—the visibility is just unparalleled.

porkbeer 3y ago
Same with most 90s cars. My old honda is practically a greenhouse, and was ctitisized for its c pillar at the time.
okdood64 3y ago
Even with the increase visibility, I'm sure you'd be much safer in a 2020 BMW 3-series. Heck even a 2010.
- AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
  [dead]
- jewayne 3y ago
  The occupants of the vehicle would be safer, but what if your main worry is hitting pedestrians during in-city driving? If that was my worry, I would greatly prefer the 1990 model.

Shocka1 3y ago

I've noticed this too and this is why I leave at least 5 car lengths in front of me, sometimes even more. I can see around the vehicle in front of me no problem, and can absorb the energy for those rush hour random stops. It seems like 9 out of 10 people follow with less than 3 car lengths, even at 60 to 80mph. This leaves no room for error and anecdotally I've seen it bite people many times. The 5+ car length strategy has served me extremely well in many years of a 2 hour commute. I can't remember once where I had to panic brake due to being surprised by a random 70mph to 0mph stop, and I can only assume that I'm helping drivers behind me get to their destination safely as well due to absorbing that slinky effect. The only con is people jump in front of me here and there, but that doesn't bother me one bit.

bombcar 3y ago
People way overplay the “everyone will cut in front of you” if you leave five or more spaces - it really will only happen in literal stop-and-go traffic where you are going five miles per hour anyway.
- fennecbutt 3y ago
  I love the "people will pull in front of you" that people make. That's what the road is for! On a multi lane road of course people can pull in front of you, that's how driving works. All people gotta do is drop back a little so there's a proper gap again. People get so hot under the collar, chill pill my dudes. Obv not directed at OP, only at the people that make that argument.