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This sounds extraordinarily poorly handled by the RCMP. He could show that he purchased it from his own credit card and on Amazon, so that's pretty good evidenc
by mcv 3y ago
This sounds extraordinarily poorly handled by the RCMP. He could show that he purchased it from his own credit card and on Amazon, so that's pretty good evidence that he's the victim of fraud, not the perpetrator of it. Weird how extremely aggressive the RCMP is.
That this is allowed to exist in legal limbo is ridiculous. He should be able to demand rectification and damages. And the real problem here is of course Amazon for enabling such scams. They should be on the hook for this, not some unsuspecting customer. And the real fraudster should be easy to track down through Amazon if they've done their due diligence.
- wubrr 3y agoRCMP's main purpose is to serve as the enforcement arm of big corporate interests and politicians. Their secondary purpose is to serve themselves. Serving Canadians and upholding the law is like 30th on the list.
- andy99 3y agoYeah what I got from the story is how unprofessional the police were. Unless there's more too it, the whole thing sounds like it should be an administrative investigations where everyone involved is assumed to be a victim unless more evidence comes to light. But somehow they rushed to treat this guy like a criminal.
- BunsanSpace 3y agoHe's first nation/aboriginal.... It's racism.
- account-5 3y agoI can see incompetence on the police's part sure. What makes it racist?
- mnot 3y agoYou think that incompetence is evenly deployed no matter what the race of the accused?
- account-5 3y agoI don't think incompetence is something that can be deployed evenly or not. The article provides no information that I can see that makes it a racist cop targeting a minority. Or is it racist for any first nation/aboriginal person to be subject to a police investigation?
- asvitkine 3y agoTheoretically, incompetence can be unevenly deployed if you assign incompetent people more predominantly to specific regions or cases.
- account-5 3y agoSo theoretically the police chief is racistly deploying non-racist but known incompetent officers in the hopes their incompetence is going to adversely affect those specific regions or cases. That's leaving an awful lot to chance. I can think of more efficient and surefire ways to ensure those areas/cases are racially targeted, you could take Baltimore city as an example. But we're surely getting beyond any reasonable speculation of the information provided in the article?
- Eisenstein 3y agoI think they are saying not that it is some grand plan by racism at the highest level, but that it is people at the higher levels not caring about certain people and the justice they get. People hear 'racism' and they think of that speech in the 60s 'segregation now, segregation forever' and firehoses, but it can be much more insidious than someone hating a subsection of people. It can be systemic in the sense that some people are not afforded the things most of us take for granted, like the protection of law, or due process of law, or innocence until guilt is proven, because there j isn't a will do it at the levels that matter. Fictional example: a cop is a problem, he tends to be heavily aggressive in his actions but he is also stupid and unlikeable. People he works with complain and he pissed off some people in the district. District administrator decide it is easier to transfer him to bumfuck, where if there are any complaints they can ignore them because they have no political power or pull, rather than let him mess with people who have the ability to get the media or politicians involved. This isn't even a conscious decision -- people in bumfuck don't complain because they are used to shitty treatment and no recourse, so they don't bother, whereas people like you or I would treat it as a travesty and get worked up and make a huge stink. The fact that it works like this makes it easy and the admin doesn't have to worry about it any more. Wash hands, done deal.
- cbsmith 3y agoPolice incompetence has a way of being disproportionately common depending on your race. Knowing definitively that is what is happening here without a lot more context is difficult, but it's entirely possible this is textbook racism.
- account-5 3y agoBut as you say, based in the information provided that conclusion is speculative at best. The sensible conclusion based on the information provided is incompetence. I think hanlons razor is applicable here
- cbsmith 3y agoYes, I do not think one can draw conclusions. However, much as one might wish to apply Hanlon's razor, Occam's razor also applies, and from a lot of people's perspective it cuts towards racism.
- account-5 3y agoBut surely the fewest assumptions here points to incompetence? Or more kindly a lack of knowledge about the way the fraud was commited? Based on the information provided I'd side with belligerent incompetence. Based on the information would you conclude it was racist if the accused person was white? Would you conclude it was racist if the cop was also a first nation/aboriginal? I doubt it. What would your conclusion be then?
- michael1999 3y agoA little bit of column A, and a little bit of column B. Remote postings don't get star officers. And the RCMP has a famously ugly history with the natives of Western Canada. And some officers at a remote detachment might feel freer to act against some than others. What do you think the RCMP was even for?
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- jpollock 3y agoThe police in Canada have a long history of poor interactions with aboriginal peoples. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths#:~:text=The%20practice%20is%20known%20as,for%20having%20caused%20freezing%20deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths#:~:t.... Now called "Starlight Tours" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/25/darrell-night-who-exposed-canada-police-freezing-deaths-scandal-dies-at-56 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/25/darrell-night-... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/rcmp-investigate-two-freezing-deaths-1.227672 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/rcmp-investigate-two-freezing... 2017 death in custody https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/02/canada-rcmp-officers-charged-dale-culver-indigenous-death https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/02/canada-rcmp-of...
- account-5 3y agoI'm not denying any of that. But those examples don't make this particular interaction racist.
- RobRivera 3y agoPlausible deniability? Baffling
- walrus01 3y agoThe RCMP in Canada has a long and well documented history of racism against indigenous people.
- southernplaces7 3y agoIm possibly as far removed a personality type as you could find from your typical woke crowd of fanatics who see racism behind every shadow, but truly, you'd have to be blind to miss the RCMP's seemingly endemic indifference to seriously investigating crimes in the native canadian community. Even right up until the present day, the RCMP has shown a glaring, almost shocking level of seemingly willfull ineptitude when their investigative resources are applied to any major sequence of crimes involving ntive canadians (what in canada are often called aboriginals). The list of persistent RCMP fuckups is long and storied, but just for one crucial example, I suggest your read about the "highway of tears".
- vdaea 3y agoThis argument sounds ridiculous/unhinged to the average person.
- krapp 3y agoThe average person isn't aware of how endemic racism and abuse of indigenous people by the police and government is in the US and Canada. It's obviously not certain that racism was a factor in this case, but the assumption is anything but ridiculous or unhinged. If you aren't white, malice always has to be a factor to consider in any interaction with the American or Canadian government.
- michael1999 3y agoStated that bluntly, yeah. But not outlandish one you add some Canadian context. The RCMP is a national service, and the kinds of officers posted to a remote reserve like Duncan's First Nation might not be the best of the best. They are paying their dues in a para-military organization, with no union (unlike most cops). They are over-scheduled, and likely far from their homes. An adversarial relationship between the members of an RCMP detachment and local band is sadly common.
- homero 3y agoThey want an arrest, rarely do police care who it is
- cbsmith 3y ago> Unless there's more too it, There is definitely more to it. We're hearing the story from one side, and there are many good reasons why the parties on the other side wouldn't share all of their context. Honestly, as I was reading it, I was thinking that it was both conceivable this was a gross miscarriage of justice and an outright failing of the police forces, it's also entirely possible that the guy is as guilty as sin and they're just having trouble putting a case together (which is common when dealing with online fraud). Keep in mind the police forces might arrest someone, but it's the prosecutors that make the decision about whether to bring charges. The prosecutors could have vacated the charge entirely, but chose not to. There's a lot of possible explanations for why they didn't, but that part of it isn't the RCMP's responsibility.
- droopyEyelids 3y agoIt's possible in the same way it's possible to win the lottery. If he is guilty, why did the order fulfillment from Amazon register the delivery from Walmart?
- cbsmith 3y agoWalmart was the recipient of the fraudulent transactions. Amazon was used to obfuscate. The difference between triangular fraud and straight fraud is mostly whether the recipient is in on it.
- bparsons 3y agoThe RCMP, particularly in small towns are very bad at these types of investigations. The truly shocking thing is that they followed up on it at all.
- BobaFloutist 3y agoI never really thought about it, but, looking them up it looks like they're basically the equivalent of the FBI(+ATF), but also sometimes are contracted for local policing by towns too small to maintain their own department? Is that accurate?
- morkalork 3y agoYes, and more. They are federal police like FBI. They used to do intelligence work (like the CIA?) until the 80s where after some scandals, a new security agency was created to take over for that responsibility. Then there's some provinces that use them like the equivalent of state troopers and local small town police. It's a mess and a ball of conflicts of interest.
- cbsmith 3y agoThe FBI also does intelligence work. What's different is that in Canada the RCMP take in local policing responsibilities where there's no local resources to do so themselves.
- morkalork 3y agoHow would you classify CSIS which is the successor to what the RCMP was doing?
- wlonkly 3y agoCSIS is more analogous to the CIA. It's an intelligence service, not a police service. But the US have a lot of specialized police agencies -- the RCMP is also the DEA, the Secret Service, the US Marshals... probably many more I'm forgetting or don't even know about.
- actionfromafar 3y agoAs a foreigner, the only I have ever heard or seen of the RCMP is how courteous they are, with their red jackets, on fictional TV shows and movies, and how agressive they seem on the news.
- chromatin 3y ago> As a foreigner, the only I have ever heard or seen of the RCMP is how courteous they are, with their red jackets, on fictional TV shows and movies, and how agressive they seem on the news. Canada has cultivated this image [of niceness] when in reality, their jack-booted state enforcers are just like every other country's.
- yieldcrv 3y agoStarlight tours represent Canadian police, this article isn’t about RCMP but the lack of accountability doesn’t make a difference https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths
- pixelcloud 3y agoIn terms of the RCMP and their aggressive behaviour. It makes perfect sense. First Nations people have not been treated well by the RCMP or LE for a very long time in Canada... This still persists to this day, systematic discrimination and all that stuff.