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One-Pedal Driving Explained

34 points by senkora 3y ago

jpm_sd 3y ago
my Nissan Leaf supports this driving mode and I hate it. Brakes way too hard/abruptly.
- lagadu 3y ago
  Much like you don't always press the brake pedal all the way down when you want to slow down, don't release the accelerator pedal completely, only the necessary amount. You're 100% in control of how hard OPD braking is.
- nnevatie 3y ago
  In most EVs you can control the intensity of one-pedal breaking. I have it set to adaptive, which uses speed as one of its factors.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    > In most EVs you can control the intensity of one-pedal breaking. In all EVs you can control the intensity real time with your foot. I concede, though, that I have friends whose driving style is best described as "binary" and I imagine they wouldn't be big fans of one-pedal mode.
    - nnevatie 3y ago
      Yes, your foot is the ultimate the control. However, there are settings for the steepness of the maximum deceleration for the scenario where the foot is completely lifted.
- Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
  100% user error. If 0% throttle is maximum regen braking, and 20% throttle actually keeps you coasting, then...just try using 5-10% throttle. Your throttle is not a binary switch. Handle it with more finesse.
Yhippa 3y ago
I'm a big fan of this. Borrowed a Tesla Model Y and have test driven several EVs. It definitely takes some getting used to but I'm a convert now.
mmastrac 3y ago
I think it's interesting but I've also never had to brake quickly with it and I worry my brain would fail to jump back to the brake. I suspect it'll end up being more dangerous in the long run unless cars auto brake better.
- tw04 3y ago
  Been using it for about 3 years. Your brain honestly figures it out pretty quickly. One pedal ramps the longer your foot isn’t on the pedal like a slow roll so you always instinctively think to hit the brake pedal if you need to stop with any urgency.
- mitchell209 3y ago
  The Mach E has pretty mediocre
- mitchell209 3y ago
  It depends on the car I believe. My Mach E doesn't brake as hard as Teslas that I've driven and honestly I'm braking too late more often than I do with normal 2 pedal driving. Mentally it just adds a split second of hesitation because I can't judge as precisely how quickly my car will come to a full stop. The Teslas that I've driven are nice because they brake much harder, which I personally like.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  I've been doing it for a number of years, and haven't found that to be a problem. My brain doesn't consider one-pedal driving as equivalent with a hard stop, it's more about modulating my speed with high precision. If something jumps in front of me that necessitates emergency braking, I use the brake pedal like I always have.
- Youden 3y ago
  At least in my car, it's not a problem. You can use one-pedal driving most of the time but the regenerative brakes aren't nearly as strong as the mechanical brakes so the mechanical brakes are still used. If for example you're coming up on traffic lights and they turn yellow, you won't be able to stop quickly enough with the regenerative brakes but you will with the mechanical brakes. Through little things like this you quickly build muscle memory for the mechanical brakes.
macintux 3y ago
As a die-hard manual enthusiast, it’s hard to love one-pedal driving. With a manual, I can accelerate, maintain my speed, coast in neutral, brake, use my transmission to slow down, or modulate low speeds with the clutch partially engaged.
- rwbt 3y ago
  I find it to be the opposite. Re-gen braking is very close to engine braking in a manual transmission car (before the modern "rev hang" tuning to prevent people from stalling) - I love it. I still drive a manual transmission car, but don't mind the one-pedal if I were to switch to an EV.
  - Zak 3y ago
    It's my understanding rev hang is about emissions. https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a32958665/the-annoying-rev-hang-in-modern-manual-cars-is-there-for-a-reason/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a329586...
  - deleted 3y ago
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- lagadu 3y ago
  I feel the opposite: I feel that only people who aren't used to engine braking will not find OPD to be completely natural.
- tw04 3y ago
  One pedal feels a lot like transmission braking to be honest. If you want to modulate it you tap the throttle.
- buffington 3y ago
  I drove a six speed manual for 16 years and loved it, and almost always used engine braking. The regenerative braking the electric I drive now feels very similar, with maybe two exceptions. Where my manual would stall, my electric comes to a gentle stop. You also don't get the same sort of "neutral" feeling. You can get close, but it's not like shifting to neutral and taking both feet off the pedals and coasting. You have to simulate it with your foot and pedal position. It becomes second nature, but it is a difference. Aside from that, it's the same to me. My right foot can still come all the way off the pedal and apply more braking, just like it would if I were engine braking and needed more. I feel fully in control.
floren 3y ago
I'm a bit surprised to read that one-pedal driving actually saves energy; I've always assume that having once converted electricity to motion, it's far more efficient to just coast when you take your foot off the pedal than to convert it back to electricity. If I'm trying to drive my EV efficiently, I put it in D mode (behaves like a regular auto transmission, more or less, but regen on braking) and do my best to stay at the speed limit on uphill or level ground, coasting up a bit above the limit on downhills, and letting myself coast in to a red light instead of keeping my foot on the pedal until I'm close & then braking.
- lagadu 3y ago
  Coasting isn't braking. If you want to coast just don't completely release the accelerator pedal, only up until the point where you're no longer accelerating or braking.
  - amluto 3y ago
    Every one-pedal-driving car I’ve ever tried has nearly no dead zone between acceleration and braking.
    - lagadu 3y ago
      You don't need a dead zone. Just modulate the pedal to whatever level of acceleration you want. The car will either regen a little, use a little power or use next to no power if you're at the perfect inclination. Energy from going downhill (assuming it's steep enough to overcome drag and rolling resistance) can go into either of two places: increased speed or charging your battery. The only difference compared to an ICE is that you only get the first option when going downhill (or wasting it into heat via the brakes).
      - peeters 3y ago
        How fast does the regenerative braking start? When I drive in an ICE with two pedals, when driving in an area with hazards, kids, etc, I frequently will take my foot off of the gas and hover it over the brake so that I'm able to respond quickly. I can do this because taking my foot off the gas while maintaining speed doesn't make an abrupt impact if I'm maintaining speed in a flat area. I would still want to be able to respond equally quickly in an EV, but it seems like it would lurch quite a bit if I did the same in a one-pedal setup? I don't know that I'd want a full toggle in an inaccessible spot to be able to coast. Do any EVs have like a paddle to coast/disable regenerative braking?
birdman3131 3y ago
As somebody who already develops leg cramps when driving more than an hour or so with no cruise this sounds absolutely horrible.
- nielsbot 3y ago
  How would this be worse? You can press a single pedal instead of switching between 2 pedals. Cruise control is still available in one pedal mode if you want to give your "gas foot" a... break.
  - peeters 3y ago
    I mean GP specifically mentioned "no cruise" and while I doubt that's common in EVs, to their point in an ICE you can take your foot off of the gas, do some stretches, give it a quick rest, and put it back on the pedal all before you would noticeably change speeds. In an EV with regenerative braking you'd be noticeably decelerating if you did the same. I think that's what they were reacting to; the idea of not being able to give your foot a rest. But again...your EV is probably going to have cruise.
  - deleted 3y ago
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- dharmab 3y ago
  ...are there any electric cars that _don't_ have cruise control?
  - birdman3131 3y ago
    Cruise fails when there is any sort of traffic. You can never match the flow right. Now with autopilot on newer cars as I understand it this is less of an issue but anything with standard cruise control is only gonna work on the interstate most of the time and often not well then.
    - eurleif 3y ago
jdeisenberg 3y ago
My EV has a “paddle” on the steering column that you can pull towards you to engage regenerative braking. I use the actual brake pedal maybe 20% of the time or if I need to do a quick stop to avoid hitting someone in front of me. I did like this sentence in the article: “Before stopping, take your foot off the gas and allow the vehicle to slow down naturally to a complete stop.” Off the gas?!
- kens 3y ago
  That's an interesting thing. I wonder if 30 years from now, cars will all be electric but the pedal will still be called the "gas" pedal. It will be one of those words that kids don't understand where it came from, like "dialing" a phone or the file save icon.
  - dwd 3y ago
    American/Canadian-only problem. Most of the rest of the Anglosphere call "gasoline" petrol, and you step on the accelerator. Gas in Australia actually refers to LPG.
deleted 3y ago
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georgecalm 3y ago
There's a great video from "Technology Connections" covering one-pedal driving here [1]. The gist of it is that one-pedal breaking doesn't have a great way to control the break lights, making it difficult for the cars behind you to recognize that you're slowing down, which can cause accidents. [1] https://youtu.be/U0YW7x9U5TQ?si=7XFO_ZHIwUjd-3Sm&t=195 https://youtu.be/U0YW7x9U5TQ?si=7XFO_ZHIwUjd-3Sm&t=195
- deleted 3y ago
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- rootusrootus 3y ago
  Wasn't his whole problem with one particular implementation of one-pedal driving, the Ioniq 5? As I recall, it was poorly implemented and had a relatively common use case that would allow you to stop without the brake lights ever coming on. This isn't really a problem that other EVs have had. The brake lights come on when you slow down, just as if you had used the brake pedal. It's mostly as easy as triggering at a certain amount of kW generated.
  - bdcravens 3y ago
    I can't speak for the state of the problem, but the Kia EV6 is a sibling to the Ioniq 5, and I would assume had/has the same issue.
  - HackeNewsFan234 3y ago
    > Wasn't his whole problem with one particular implementation of one-pedal driving, the Ioniq 5? Yes. I watched that Tech Connections video a while back. In that implementation, his car would slow down too quickly without brake lights. I think it would get down to something like 15 mph from 55 before they'd come on, yet the deceleration was at least as rapid as casual braking. I agree with the Tech Connections example; I have no comment on other EVs.
- eurleif 3y ago
  This is only a problem in some EVs. Teslas, for example, illuminate the brake lights correctly when regenerative braking is used. The pinned comment on the video also suggests Hyundai may have fixed this on their cars by now, although I don't know whether they followed through.
losvedir 3y ago
As a Tesla driver, I’m used to one pedal driving now, but I don’t love it. The thing I do most when driving is maintain the same speed, and doing that with one pedal driving is a little hard on my leg, since you have to keep the pedal at just the right angle. I’d prefer a “sailing” mode where one pedal accelerates, the other decelerates, and if you do neither then it just maintains your velocity. The Tesla already disconnects the pedal inputs from what’s happening since I have the setting turned on for it to maintain one-pedal deceleration when regen is low, by adding in brake. I’d like to continue heading in the drive by wire direction.
- chthonicdaemon 3y ago
  Doesn't it have cruise control?
  - thebruce87m 3y ago
    It has TACC and you can pretty much do what OP wants since accelerating and braking will override the setting.
- vel0city 3y ago
  > I’d prefer a “sailing” mode Cruise control? If I'm keeping the same speed for more than like 5ish minutes I usually just turn on cruise control. So many cars have adaptive cruise control, and it often works in traffic pretty well. Many cars even handle stop and go in adaptive cruise as well. Both of my cars even let you set it digitally from the steering wheel, so I can accurately change my speed without touching any pedals at all.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > I’d prefer a “sailing” mode where one pedal accelerates, the other decelerates, and if you do neither then it just maintains your velocity. Does any car work like that? It seems dangerous: It defaults to powering the wheels, even if the driver is doing nothing - even when the driver is incapacitated.
- m463 3y ago
  which one are you talking about? I think the newer teslas have three settings - one that coasts, one that has regen, and one with regen + brakes the last one makes driving the car sort of convenient around town, but it also feels kind of sluggish since when you let off it will bog down.
cpncrunch 3y ago
None of the benefits listed apply to the Chevy Bolt, as it uses regen up to 55kW when using the brake pedal. I would assume most modern EVs are the same.
peeters 3y ago
What was the impetus for manufacturers to design it this way I wonder? It seems to me like you could easily implement regenerative braking in the same way by having the brake pedal respond to light pressure with regenerative braking, and firm pressure with brake pads. Then you don't lose the ability to coast, nobody has to learn anything new, and you don't have to transition from pedal to pedal if you need to surpass the capability of the regenerative brake. Was there an engineering challenge? A safety concern? Do they think that using a single pedal has enough innate advantage that it overcomes the disadvantage of having to be learned? And if so, what's the innate advantage?
- m463 3y ago
  Some cars do exactly that (put regen on the brake pedal). And they have lots of unexpected behavior and non-linear brake feel. Regeneration level is different depending on battery charge and temperature, and it is easier to adapt to this on the accelerator pedal. Blending between regeneration and brakes is just about impossible to get right - it will be non-linear and make you worse at braking.
  - jessriedel 3y ago
    > And they have lots of unexpected behavior and non-linear brake feel. Upthread there are several examples of brake lights not going on when people expect, or the regen braking being hard to get to feel right. All new systems are going to be buggy or whatever for a while, varying from model to model. I just haven't heard why putting regen on the brake pedal is uniquely difficult. > and it is easier to adapt to this on the accelerator pedal....Blending between regeneration and brakes is just about impossible to get right - it will be non-linear and make you worse at braking. Why?
    - m463 3y ago
      I had a car that did this. Light brake pedal action would sometimes brake MORE than expected. Sometimes it would brake LESS than expected. This doesn't help with the millisecond response you need with your brakes to stop where you want with the force you want.
wolverine876 3y ago
Why not use it when driving downhill (as the OP says)? It seems like you'd gain more regenerative braking energy. Does the energy exceed the battery capacity? Is it hard to choose the right amount of pedal pressure to maintain appropriate speed?
- Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
  I don't know why someone would recommend not using regen braking going downhill. That's the absolute BEST time to use it! It's literally free energy! There's a hill I drive down any time I go downtown. I'll gain 1-2% of my battery back every time I go down it. > Does the energy exceed the battery capacity? When that happens, you just don't get any braking and you have to use the foot brake. > Is it hard to choose the right amount of pedal pressure to maintain appropriate speed? Can be. The accelerator can be pretty sensitive while going downhill. Just use cruise control, as it'll modulate the regen braking as necessary to maintain a constant speed while going downhill.
bdcravens 3y ago
I tried one-pedal in my EV6 for a few months, but found it fairly tedious with the aggressive braking. The EV6 does give you four levels of sensitivity if you want less than one-pedal, but I ended up switching to auto mode, where it dynamically adjusts the braking level and regen based on vehicles ahead of you.
ubbr 3y ago
Automotive engineer here. What the article and many posts here miss: one pedal driving is just another user interface mode to capture the driver’s intent. The system itself always recuperates energy instead of braking, if possible. If no intent to decelerate is given, sailing is more energy efficient than recuperating.
- alex_young 3y ago
  It sure beats three pedals though right? If you wanted to completely optimize you would introduce some kind of regen break pedal which allows you to stop using regen only and then switch to your backup break pedal when you have too short a stopping distance. Ux is pretty bad I imagine.
  - lini 3y ago
    Some EVs use paddles behind the steering wheel to control recuperation. You can switch between several levels or use max regen while you hold one of the paddles. It gives a lot of control without touching the brake pedal.
    - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
      I wouldn't want that kind of interface. I'd worry about it retraining my mind to think "Braking = pulling this paddle", and then one day I'll need to make an emergency stop, and I'll pull the paddle instead of hitting the foot brake and ram into whatever I wanted to avoid because the regen braking was insufficient. I suppose the system could be designed to detect a user suddenly putting a death grip on the paddle brake and apply the foot brake automatically.
gnicholas 3y ago
> However, there are three conditions where it’s not safe to operate the one-pedal driving mode: When driving on slippery roads, such as ice, slush, or snow. During a downhill drive. If you fill your car with heavy baggage or cargo. I use one-pedal driving downhill all the time. I typically take my foot off the accelerator and hover it more over the brake pedal. Is there a reason this would be unsafe?
- stonogo 3y ago
  The regenerative braking in the latter two cases may not be strong enough to stop the car. If you hit the brake pedals it engages the old-fashioned brake calipers and stops the car like it's 1935.
  - timw4mail 3y ago
    They didn't have disc brakes in 1935.
    - stonogo 3y ago
      Yes, they did.
- rawrawrawrr 3y ago
  If you're planning on using the brake pedal, then that's not one pedal driving.
PeterStuer 3y ago
I used one-switch-driving most of the time in my non-electric BMW 5. The cruise control up-down switch (+/-10km clicks, +/=1km nudges) on the steering wheel was very convenient to operate. The acceleration very smooth, as was the regenetative braking deceleration. I consistently had better fuel economy that way than other drivers with the same model. Everything has to allign though for this to feel great. I have tried it with other cars, and it never felt as good.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  How did you have regenerative braking on a non-electric BMW 5?
  - traceroute66 3y ago
    > How did you have regenerative braking on a non-electric BMW 5? Just because the EV-brigade gave it a fancy name doesn't mean they invented it. ;-) The non-electric synonym to regenerative braking is the combined effects of engine braking and/or tyre friction. I frequently use it myself, for example when I'm approaching a known reduction in speed limit and its safe to do so (in the context of traffic distance behind me) I will disable the cruise control and let the car slow itself down in a relatively short distance. After a short while you can do that sufficiently accurately so you reach the exact speed limit by the time you reach the sign post. EV's basically do the same thing. The "regenerative" part is a bit overhyped IMHO it won't magically recharge your battery, maybe add 5–10% over the course of hours if you're lucky with the electron gods. The laws of physics still apply in an EV, unfortunatley. Yes you might try to argue that EV regenerative braking slows you down faster. But the more aggressive nature is a double-edged sword ... aggressive slowing down with close following traffic, for example, is a recipe for easily avoidable disaster.
    - gnicholas 3y ago
      Interesting; I thought the term referred to the fact that electricity is being generated in the process. This appears to be the DOE's definition also. [1] I'd be curious to see how it was used before this, like you say! 1: https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/how-regenerative-brakes-work https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/how-regenerative-brakes-w...
noman-land 3y ago
I've always felt that brake lights should be somehow encoded with the actual rate of deceleration not just the binary on/off of the brake application. It would make it much easier to gauge from a long distance how urgently people ahead of you are braking.
- PuffinBlue 3y ago
  They are, at least on my car and many other here in Europe. Brake past a certain threshold of deceleration, and the brakes lights flash rapidly, indicating to motorists behind that rapid deceleration is occurring. I’m not sure what the threshold is.
  - bdsa 3y ago
    In my experience the threshold is high enough that it only helps you distinguish between "incredibly sudden but non-emergency stop" and "full-on emergency stop"
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    What kind of vehicles do you see this on? I have only rarely seen this, perhaps because it's not common in the US, or perhaps because emergency braking isn't all that common. But if there's going to be a different kind of light behavior, I'd think they'd want to have it triggered commonly enough that people would know what it means. Otherwise they might be confused the first time they encounter it.
netsharc 3y ago
At the moment, 7 instances of the word "break", all misspellings of the word "brake" (including "breaking"/"braking") And 152 instances of "brak"(e/ing), at least that's a better ratio than reddit.
MagicMoonlight 3y ago
I don’t want the car to randomly slam the brakes on for me
- Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
  If your car is randomly slamming the brakes, your car is broken.
jeffreportmill1 3y ago
I have a theory that one-pedal driving also improves traffic conditions by reducing the over correction inherent to two pedals. In traffic we hit the accelerator when space opens up in front of us, then switch quickly to brakes when the brake lights in front go on. The switch lessens our ability for fine control and it's exacerbated by the inertia of deceleration, so we almost always over correct. This has a cumulative effect in following cars. One pedal driving allows us fine motor control without a drastic switch. The regenerative braking also encourages us to not over-brake (you grow to love the idea that you are recapturing energy and avoiding wear on the pads).
- boznz 3y ago
  Regen also means cruise control works as it should, so no speeding tickets when you are going down a steep hill (and where the police aways seem to sit)
  - Fezzik 3y ago
    Don’t most modern cars, even ICE cars, both slow-down-to and speed-up-to the speed designated by cruise control? I know my Subaru does, and my old Audi did, and both of the two Ford Escapes I drive for work do.
    - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
      My wife's 2015 Honda CRV will allow the car to exceed the cruise control's set speed by up to 5 mph before the CVT raises the engine speed to apply engine braking. In my 2016 Subaru BRZ (manual transmission), cruise control would never apply brakes, so if the hill was steep enough that engine breaking was slowing the car, then it could potentially exceed the cruise speed. But it would need a nearly 10% grade to do that in 6th gear at 60 mph.
- neuralRiot 3y ago
  > reducing the over correction inherent to two pedals. Leaving space in fronto of you and trying to keep a constant speed also reduces this effect, this is ironically most used in 3-pedal driving as otherwise you’ll need to go into first gear when hitting a complete stop.
JR1427 3y ago
Brake lights are not only about showing deceleration, but also intention. If I tap the brake and it doesn't really change my speed, it still signals to those behind that I was (for whatever reason) think about slowing down, which is useful information. So I think brake lights should come on when deceleration is greater than a certain value, OR when the brake pedal is pushed.
- JimmyAustin 3y ago
  That is exactly how one-pedal driving in a Tesla works!
korse 3y ago
It is kind of funny seeing an article on 'one pedal driving'... This has been the control scheme for electric skateboards for years. These EVs are really just large skateboards with over-complicated steering and all the privacy invading tech you could ever dream of.
m3047 3y ago
I learned to drive mechanical transmissions, and in fact my pickup truck is the first vehicle I've ever owned with an automatic transmission. I also ride motorcycles. "One pedal" or "compression" braking is a given; the control you have over how strong it is is the gear you're in, which also sets available torque for acceleration (and inversely impacts efficiency, because an ICE is a big air pump). I routinely downshift the automatic transmission going downhill on twisty roads or in parking lots, and it definitely provides compression braking when your foot comes off of the accelerator, without touching the brake. I taught my adult spouse to drive and one of the ways I tempered hesitancy was to have her shift the automatic transmission to a lower gear (but not so low she'd over rev the engine driving the speed limit). I was less concerned with fuel efficiency or whether she sounded like a hot rodder than I was with providing her positive control over speed. I'd say it worked. Mostly now she only downshifts going down hill or in parking lots.
- Projectiboga 3y ago
  I use my brakes sparingly myself. I think many forget there is something between pushing the gas and hitting the brake, and that is foot off both, especially on highways you can really control your speed with wind resistance. I also like to downshift on steep grades when going downhill, and I downshift when traffic gets backed up common on NYC highways.
jdeibele 3y ago
I've been driving a Chevrolet Bolt EUV since mine was delivered in April, 2023. For the first six weeks, I avoided One-Pedal Driving since I thought it might impair me driving a regular car. I switched to using OPD and I can't imagine going back. When I was younger, I drove only manual transmission cars and liked the feeling of being integrated with the car that shifting gears gave me. In the US, that's left hand on the wheel, right hand on the gear knob, left foot on the clutch, and right foot on the gas or brake. At the time, I believed that only people using a manual were "drivers", everybody else was a "steerer". OPD only uses one foot and one or two hands on the wheel but for me, the feeling is somewhat similar to the manual as the car reacts quickly to my right foot. I use adaptive cruise control a lot, even on city streets. My ICE cars would not let me set cruise control below 25MPH but the Bolt lets me set it at anything I want. That (presumably) gets me around the issue of not being able to coast - on cruise control, the car will coast when it wants, accelerates when it wants, use re-gen when it wants.
matt-attack 3y ago
The concept of one pedal driving should be entirely divorced from the concept of regen. It’s purely a UI choice. One could just as easily (ok it’d be slightly harder) design a system that behaves just like a traditional ICE vehicle while still regenerating the exact same amount of energy. Any argument for one pedal driving should be centered solely in the UI benefits (less foot movement, etc.) rather than even mentioning regen.

34 points by senkora 3y ago

jpm_sd 3y ago

my Nissan Leaf supports this driving mode and I hate it. Brakes way too hard/abruptly.

lagadu 3y ago
Much like you don't always press the brake pedal all the way down when you want to slow down, don't release the accelerator pedal completely, only the necessary amount. You're 100% in control of how hard OPD braking is.
nnevatie 3y ago
In most EVs you can control the intensity of one-pedal breaking. I have it set to adaptive, which uses speed as one of its factors.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  > In most EVs you can control the intensity of one-pedal breaking. In all EVs you can control the intensity real time with your foot. I concede, though, that I have friends whose driving style is best described as "binary" and I imagine they wouldn't be big fans of one-pedal mode.
  - nnevatie 3y ago
    Yes, your foot is the ultimate the control. However, there are settings for the steepness of the maximum deceleration for the scenario where the foot is completely lifted.
Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
100% user error. If 0% throttle is maximum regen braking, and 20% throttle actually keeps you coasting, then...just try using 5-10% throttle. Your throttle is not a binary switch. Handle it with more finesse.

Yhippa 3y ago

I'm a big fan of this. Borrowed a Tesla Model Y and have test driven several EVs. It definitely takes some getting used to but I'm a convert now.

mmastrac 3y ago

I think it's interesting but I've also never had to brake quickly with it and I worry my brain would fail to jump back to the brake. I suspect it'll end up being more dangerous in the long run unless cars auto brake better.

tw04 3y ago
Been using it for about 3 years. Your brain honestly figures it out pretty quickly. One pedal ramps the longer your foot isn’t on the pedal like a slow roll so you always instinctively think to hit the brake pedal if you need to stop with any urgency.
mitchell209 3y ago
The Mach E has pretty mediocre
mitchell209 3y ago
It depends on the car I believe. My Mach E doesn't brake as hard as Teslas that I've driven and honestly I'm braking too late more often than I do with normal 2 pedal driving. Mentally it just adds a split second of hesitation because I can't judge as precisely how quickly my car will come to a full stop. The Teslas that I've driven are nice because they brake much harder, which I personally like.
rootusrootus 3y ago
I've been doing it for a number of years, and haven't found that to be a problem. My brain doesn't consider one-pedal driving as equivalent with a hard stop, it's more about modulating my speed with high precision. If something jumps in front of me that necessitates emergency braking, I use the brake pedal like I always have.
Youden 3y ago
At least in my car, it's not a problem. You can use one-pedal driving most of the time but the regenerative brakes aren't nearly as strong as the mechanical brakes so the mechanical brakes are still used. If for example you're coming up on traffic lights and they turn yellow, you won't be able to stop quickly enough with the regenerative brakes but you will with the mechanical brakes. Through little things like this you quickly build muscle memory for the mechanical brakes.

macintux 3y ago

As a die-hard manual enthusiast, it’s hard to love one-pedal driving. With a manual, I can accelerate, maintain my speed, coast in neutral, brake, use my transmission to slow down, or modulate low speeds with the clutch partially engaged.

rwbt 3y ago
I find it to be the opposite. Re-gen braking is very close to engine braking in a manual transmission car (before the modern "rev hang" tuning to prevent people from stalling) - I love it. I still drive a manual transmission car, but don't mind the one-pedal if I were to switch to an EV.
- Zak 3y ago
  It's my understanding rev hang is about emissions. https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a32958665/the-annoying-rev-hang-in-modern-manual-cars-is-there-for-a-reason/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a329586...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
lagadu 3y ago
I feel the opposite: I feel that only people who aren't used to engine braking will not find OPD to be completely natural.
tw04 3y ago
One pedal feels a lot like transmission braking to be honest. If you want to modulate it you tap the throttle.
buffington 3y ago
I drove a six speed manual for 16 years and loved it, and almost always used engine braking. The regenerative braking the electric I drive now feels very similar, with maybe two exceptions. Where my manual would stall, my electric comes to a gentle stop. You also don't get the same sort of "neutral" feeling. You can get close, but it's not like shifting to neutral and taking both feet off the pedals and coasting. You have to simulate it with your foot and pedal position. It becomes second nature, but it is a difference. Aside from that, it's the same to me. My right foot can still come all the way off the pedal and apply more braking, just like it would if I were engine braking and needed more. I feel fully in control.

floren 3y ago

I'm a bit surprised to read that one-pedal driving actually saves energy; I've always assume that having once converted electricity to motion, it's far more efficient to just coast when you take your foot off the pedal than to convert it back to electricity. If I'm trying to drive my EV efficiently, I put it in D mode (behaves like a regular auto transmission, more or less, but regen on braking) and do my best to stay at the speed limit on uphill or level ground, coasting up a bit above the limit on downhills, and letting myself coast in to a red light instead of keeping my foot on the pedal until I'm close & then braking.

lagadu 3y ago
Coasting isn't braking. If you want to coast just don't completely release the accelerator pedal, only up until the point where you're no longer accelerating or braking.
- amluto 3y ago
  Every one-pedal-driving car I’ve ever tried has nearly no dead zone between acceleration and braking.
  - lagadu 3y ago
    You don't need a dead zone. Just modulate the pedal to whatever level of acceleration you want. The car will either regen a little, use a little power or use next to no power if you're at the perfect inclination. Energy from going downhill (assuming it's steep enough to overcome drag and rolling resistance) can go into either of two places: increased speed or charging your battery. The only difference compared to an ICE is that you only get the first option when going downhill (or wasting it into heat via the brakes).
    - peeters 3y ago
      How fast does the regenerative braking start? When I drive in an ICE with two pedals, when driving in an area with hazards, kids, etc, I frequently will take my foot off of the gas and hover it over the brake so that I'm able to respond quickly. I can do this because taking my foot off the gas while maintaining speed doesn't make an abrupt impact if I'm maintaining speed in a flat area. I would still want to be able to respond equally quickly in an EV, but it seems like it would lurch quite a bit if I did the same in a one-pedal setup? I don't know that I'd want a full toggle in an inaccessible spot to be able to coast. Do any EVs have like a paddle to coast/disable regenerative braking?

birdman3131 3y ago

As somebody who already develops leg cramps when driving more than an hour or so with no cruise this sounds absolutely horrible.

nielsbot 3y ago
How would this be worse? You can press a single pedal instead of switching between 2 pedals. Cruise control is still available in one pedal mode if you want to give your "gas foot" a... break.
- peeters 3y ago
  I mean GP specifically mentioned "no cruise" and while I doubt that's common in EVs, to their point in an ICE you can take your foot off of the gas, do some stretches, give it a quick rest, and put it back on the pedal all before you would noticeably change speeds. In an EV with regenerative braking you'd be noticeably decelerating if you did the same. I think that's what they were reacting to; the idea of not being able to give your foot a rest. But again...your EV is probably going to have cruise.
- deleted 3y ago
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dharmab 3y ago
...are there any electric cars that _don't_ have cruise control?
- birdman3131 3y ago
  Cruise fails when there is any sort of traffic. You can never match the flow right. Now with autopilot on newer cars as I understand it this is less of an issue but anything with standard cruise control is only gonna work on the interstate most of the time and often not well then.
  - eurleif 3y ago

jdeisenberg 3y ago

My EV has a “paddle” on the steering column that you can pull towards you to engage regenerative braking. I use the actual brake pedal maybe 20% of the time or if I need to do a quick stop to avoid hitting someone in front of me. I did like this sentence in the article: “Before stopping, take your foot off the gas and allow the vehicle to slow down naturally to a complete stop.” Off the gas?!

kens 3y ago
That's an interesting thing. I wonder if 30 years from now, cars will all be electric but the pedal will still be called the "gas" pedal. It will be one of those words that kids don't understand where it came from, like "dialing" a phone or the file save icon.
- dwd 3y ago
  American/Canadian-only problem. Most of the rest of the Anglosphere call "gasoline" petrol, and you step on the accelerator. Gas in Australia actually refers to LPG.

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georgecalm 3y ago

There's a great video from "Technology Connections" covering one-pedal driving here [1]. The gist of it is that one-pedal breaking doesn't have a great way to control the break lights, making it difficult for the cars behind you to recognize that you're slowing down, which can cause accidents. [1] https://youtu.be/U0YW7x9U5TQ?si=7XFO_ZHIwUjd-3Sm&t=195 https://youtu.be/U0YW7x9U5TQ?si=7XFO_ZHIwUjd-3Sm&t=195

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rootusrootus 3y ago
Wasn't his whole problem with one particular implementation of one-pedal driving, the Ioniq 5? As I recall, it was poorly implemented and had a relatively common use case that would allow you to stop without the brake lights ever coming on. This isn't really a problem that other EVs have had. The brake lights come on when you slow down, just as if you had used the brake pedal. It's mostly as easy as triggering at a certain amount of kW generated.
- bdcravens 3y ago
  I can't speak for the state of the problem, but the Kia EV6 is a sibling to the Ioniq 5, and I would assume had/has the same issue.
- HackeNewsFan234 3y ago
  > Wasn't his whole problem with one particular implementation of one-pedal driving, the Ioniq 5? Yes. I watched that Tech Connections video a while back. In that implementation, his car would slow down too quickly without brake lights. I think it would get down to something like 15 mph from 55 before they'd come on, yet the deceleration was at least as rapid as casual braking. I agree with the Tech Connections example; I have no comment on other EVs.
eurleif 3y ago
This is only a problem in some EVs. Teslas, for example, illuminate the brake lights correctly when regenerative braking is used. The pinned comment on the video also suggests Hyundai may have fixed this on their cars by now, although I don't know whether they followed through.

losvedir 3y ago

As a Tesla driver, I’m used to one pedal driving now, but I don’t love it. The thing I do most when driving is maintain the same speed, and doing that with one pedal driving is a little hard on my leg, since you have to keep the pedal at just the right angle. I’d prefer a “sailing” mode where one pedal accelerates, the other decelerates, and if you do neither then it just maintains your velocity. The Tesla already disconnects the pedal inputs from what’s happening since I have the setting turned on for it to maintain one-pedal deceleration when regen is low, by adding in brake. I’d like to continue heading in the drive by wire direction.

chthonicdaemon 3y ago
Doesn't it have cruise control?
- thebruce87m 3y ago
  It has TACC and you can pretty much do what OP wants since accelerating and braking will override the setting.
vel0city 3y ago
> I’d prefer a “sailing” mode Cruise control? If I'm keeping the same speed for more than like 5ish minutes I usually just turn on cruise control. So many cars have adaptive cruise control, and it often works in traffic pretty well. Many cars even handle stop and go in adaptive cruise as well. Both of my cars even let you set it digitally from the steering wheel, so I can accurately change my speed without touching any pedals at all.
wolverine876 3y ago
> I’d prefer a “sailing” mode where one pedal accelerates, the other decelerates, and if you do neither then it just maintains your velocity. Does any car work like that? It seems dangerous: It defaults to powering the wheels, even if the driver is doing nothing - even when the driver is incapacitated.
m463 3y ago
which one are you talking about? I think the newer teslas have three settings - one that coasts, one that has regen, and one with regen + brakes the last one makes driving the car sort of convenient around town, but it also feels kind of sluggish since when you let off it will bog down.

cpncrunch 3y ago

None of the benefits listed apply to the Chevy Bolt, as it uses regen up to 55kW when using the brake pedal. I would assume most modern EVs are the same.

peeters 3y ago

What was the impetus for manufacturers to design it this way I wonder? It seems to me like you could easily implement regenerative braking in the same way by having the brake pedal respond to light pressure with regenerative braking, and firm pressure with brake pads. Then you don't lose the ability to coast, nobody has to learn anything new, and you don't have to transition from pedal to pedal if you need to surpass the capability of the regenerative brake. Was there an engineering challenge? A safety concern? Do they think that using a single pedal has enough innate advantage that it overcomes the disadvantage of having to be learned? And if so, what's the innate advantage?

m463 3y ago
Some cars do exactly that (put regen on the brake pedal). And they have lots of unexpected behavior and non-linear brake feel. Regeneration level is different depending on battery charge and temperature, and it is easier to adapt to this on the accelerator pedal. Blending between regeneration and brakes is just about impossible to get right - it will be non-linear and make you worse at braking.
- jessriedel 3y ago
  > And they have lots of unexpected behavior and non-linear brake feel. Upthread there are several examples of brake lights not going on when people expect, or the regen braking being hard to get to feel right. All new systems are going to be buggy or whatever for a while, varying from model to model. I just haven't heard why putting regen on the brake pedal is uniquely difficult. > and it is easier to adapt to this on the accelerator pedal....Blending between regeneration and brakes is just about impossible to get right - it will be non-linear and make you worse at braking. Why?
  - m463 3y ago
    I had a car that did this. Light brake pedal action would sometimes brake MORE than expected. Sometimes it would brake LESS than expected. This doesn't help with the millisecond response you need with your brakes to stop where you want with the force you want.

wolverine876 3y ago

Why not use it when driving downhill (as the OP says)? It seems like you'd gain more regenerative braking energy. Does the energy exceed the battery capacity? Is it hard to choose the right amount of pedal pressure to maintain appropriate speed?

Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
I don't know why someone would recommend not using regen braking going downhill. That's the absolute BEST time to use it! It's literally free energy! There's a hill I drive down any time I go downtown. I'll gain 1-2% of my battery back every time I go down it. > Does the energy exceed the battery capacity? When that happens, you just don't get any braking and you have to use the foot brake. > Is it hard to choose the right amount of pedal pressure to maintain appropriate speed? Can be. The accelerator can be pretty sensitive while going downhill. Just use cruise control, as it'll modulate the regen braking as necessary to maintain a constant speed while going downhill.

bdcravens 3y ago

I tried one-pedal in my EV6 for a few months, but found it fairly tedious with the aggressive braking. The EV6 does give you four levels of sensitivity if you want less than one-pedal, but I ended up switching to auto mode, where it dynamically adjusts the braking level and regen based on vehicles ahead of you.

ubbr 3y ago

Automotive engineer here. What the article and many posts here miss: one pedal driving is just another user interface mode to capture the driver’s intent. The system itself always recuperates energy instead of braking, if possible. If no intent to decelerate is given, sailing is more energy efficient than recuperating.

alex_young 3y ago
It sure beats three pedals though right? If you wanted to completely optimize you would introduce some kind of regen break pedal which allows you to stop using regen only and then switch to your backup break pedal when you have too short a stopping distance. Ux is pretty bad I imagine.
- lini 3y ago
  Some EVs use paddles behind the steering wheel to control recuperation. You can switch between several levels or use max regen while you hold one of the paddles. It gives a lot of control without touching the brake pedal.
  - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
    I wouldn't want that kind of interface. I'd worry about it retraining my mind to think "Braking = pulling this paddle", and then one day I'll need to make an emergency stop, and I'll pull the paddle instead of hitting the foot brake and ram into whatever I wanted to avoid because the regen braking was insufficient. I suppose the system could be designed to detect a user suddenly putting a death grip on the paddle brake and apply the foot brake automatically.

gnicholas 3y ago

> However, there are three conditions where it’s not safe to operate the one-pedal driving mode: When driving on slippery roads, such as ice, slush, or snow. During a downhill drive. If you fill your car with heavy baggage or cargo. I use one-pedal driving downhill all the time. I typically take my foot off the accelerator and hover it more over the brake pedal. Is there a reason this would be unsafe?

stonogo 3y ago
The regenerative braking in the latter two cases may not be strong enough to stop the car. If you hit the brake pedals it engages the old-fashioned brake calipers and stops the car like it's 1935.
- timw4mail 3y ago
  They didn't have disc brakes in 1935.
  - stonogo 3y ago
    Yes, they did.
rawrawrawrr 3y ago
If you're planning on using the brake pedal, then that's not one pedal driving.

PeterStuer 3y ago

I used one-switch-driving most of the time in my non-electric BMW 5. The cruise control up-down switch (+/-10km clicks, +/=1km nudges) on the steering wheel was very convenient to operate. The acceleration very smooth, as was the regenetative braking deceleration. I consistently had better fuel economy that way than other drivers with the same model. Everything has to allign though for this to feel great. I have tried it with other cars, and it never felt as good.

gnicholas 3y ago
How did you have regenerative braking on a non-electric BMW 5?
- traceroute66 3y ago
  > How did you have regenerative braking on a non-electric BMW 5? Just because the EV-brigade gave it a fancy name doesn't mean they invented it. ;-) The non-electric synonym to regenerative braking is the combined effects of engine braking and/or tyre friction. I frequently use it myself, for example when I'm approaching a known reduction in speed limit and its safe to do so (in the context of traffic distance behind me) I will disable the cruise control and let the car slow itself down in a relatively short distance. After a short while you can do that sufficiently accurately so you reach the exact speed limit by the time you reach the sign post. EV's basically do the same thing. The "regenerative" part is a bit overhyped IMHO it won't magically recharge your battery, maybe add 5–10% over the course of hours if you're lucky with the electron gods. The laws of physics still apply in an EV, unfortunatley. Yes you might try to argue that EV regenerative braking slows you down faster. But the more aggressive nature is a double-edged sword ... aggressive slowing down with close following traffic, for example, is a recipe for easily avoidable disaster.
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    Interesting; I thought the term referred to the fact that electricity is being generated in the process. This appears to be the DOE's definition also. [1] I'd be curious to see how it was used before this, like you say! 1: https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/how-regenerative-brakes-work https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/how-regenerative-brakes-w...

noman-land 3y ago

I've always felt that brake lights should be somehow encoded with the actual rate of deceleration not just the binary on/off of the brake application. It would make it much easier to gauge from a long distance how urgently people ahead of you are braking.

PuffinBlue 3y ago
They are, at least on my car and many other here in Europe. Brake past a certain threshold of deceleration, and the brakes lights flash rapidly, indicating to motorists behind that rapid deceleration is occurring. I’m not sure what the threshold is.
- bdsa 3y ago
  In my experience the threshold is high enough that it only helps you distinguish between "incredibly sudden but non-emergency stop" and "full-on emergency stop"
- gnicholas 3y ago
  What kind of vehicles do you see this on? I have only rarely seen this, perhaps because it's not common in the US, or perhaps because emergency braking isn't all that common. But if there's going to be a different kind of light behavior, I'd think they'd want to have it triggered commonly enough that people would know what it means. Otherwise they might be confused the first time they encounter it.

netsharc 3y ago

At the moment, 7 instances of the word "break", all misspellings of the word "brake" (including "breaking"/"braking") And 152 instances of "brak"(e/ing), at least that's a better ratio than reddit.

MagicMoonlight 3y ago

I don’t want the car to randomly slam the brakes on for me

Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
If your car is randomly slamming the brakes, your car is broken.

jeffreportmill1 3y ago

I have a theory that one-pedal driving also improves traffic conditions by reducing the over correction inherent to two pedals. In traffic we hit the accelerator when space opens up in front of us, then switch quickly to brakes when the brake lights in front go on. The switch lessens our ability for fine control and it's exacerbated by the inertia of deceleration, so we almost always over correct. This has a cumulative effect in following cars. One pedal driving allows us fine motor control without a drastic switch. The regenerative braking also encourages us to not over-brake (you grow to love the idea that you are recapturing energy and avoiding wear on the pads).

boznz 3y ago
Regen also means cruise control works as it should, so no speeding tickets when you are going down a steep hill (and where the police aways seem to sit)
- Fezzik 3y ago
  Don’t most modern cars, even ICE cars, both slow-down-to and speed-up-to the speed designated by cruise control? I know my Subaru does, and my old Audi did, and both of the two Ford Escapes I drive for work do.
  - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
    My wife's 2015 Honda CRV will allow the car to exceed the cruise control's set speed by up to 5 mph before the CVT raises the engine speed to apply engine braking. In my 2016 Subaru BRZ (manual transmission), cruise control would never apply brakes, so if the hill was steep enough that engine breaking was slowing the car, then it could potentially exceed the cruise speed. But it would need a nearly 10% grade to do that in 6th gear at 60 mph.
neuralRiot 3y ago
> reducing the over correction inherent to two pedals. Leaving space in fronto of you and trying to keep a constant speed also reduces this effect, this is ironically most used in 3-pedal driving as otherwise you’ll need to go into first gear when hitting a complete stop.

JR1427 3y ago

Brake lights are not only about showing deceleration, but also intention. If I tap the brake and it doesn't really change my speed, it still signals to those behind that I was (for whatever reason) think about slowing down, which is useful information. So I think brake lights should come on when deceleration is greater than a certain value, OR when the brake pedal is pushed.

JimmyAustin 3y ago
That is exactly how one-pedal driving in a Tesla works!

korse 3y ago

It is kind of funny seeing an article on 'one pedal driving'... This has been the control scheme for electric skateboards for years. These EVs are really just large skateboards with over-complicated steering and all the privacy invading tech you could ever dream of.

m3047 3y ago

I learned to drive mechanical transmissions, and in fact my pickup truck is the first vehicle I've ever owned with an automatic transmission. I also ride motorcycles. "One pedal" or "compression" braking is a given; the control you have over how strong it is is the gear you're in, which also sets available torque for acceleration (and inversely impacts efficiency, because an ICE is a big air pump). I routinely downshift the automatic transmission going downhill on twisty roads or in parking lots, and it definitely provides compression braking when your foot comes off of the accelerator, without touching the brake. I taught my adult spouse to drive and one of the ways I tempered hesitancy was to have her shift the automatic transmission to a lower gear (but not so low she'd over rev the engine driving the speed limit). I was less concerned with fuel efficiency or whether she sounded like a hot rodder than I was with providing her positive control over speed. I'd say it worked. Mostly now she only downshifts going down hill or in parking lots.

Projectiboga 3y ago
I use my brakes sparingly myself. I think many forget there is something between pushing the gas and hitting the brake, and that is foot off both, especially on highways you can really control your speed with wind resistance. I also like to downshift on steep grades when going downhill, and I downshift when traffic gets backed up common on NYC highways.

jdeibele 3y ago

I've been driving a Chevrolet Bolt EUV since mine was delivered in April, 2023. For the first six weeks, I avoided One-Pedal Driving since I thought it might impair me driving a regular car. I switched to using OPD and I can't imagine going back. When I was younger, I drove only manual transmission cars and liked the feeling of being integrated with the car that shifting gears gave me. In the US, that's left hand on the wheel, right hand on the gear knob, left foot on the clutch, and right foot on the gas or brake. At the time, I believed that only people using a manual were "drivers", everybody else was a "steerer". OPD only uses one foot and one or two hands on the wheel but for me, the feeling is somewhat similar to the manual as the car reacts quickly to my right foot. I use adaptive cruise control a lot, even on city streets. My ICE cars would not let me set cruise control below 25MPH but the Bolt lets me set it at anything I want. That (presumably) gets me around the issue of not being able to coast - on cruise control, the car will coast when it wants, accelerates when it wants, use re-gen when it wants.

matt-attack 3y ago

The concept of one pedal driving should be entirely divorced from the concept of regen. It’s purely a UI choice. One could just as easily (ok it’d be slightly harder) design a system that behaves just like a traditional ICE vehicle while still regenerating the exact same amount of energy. Any argument for one pedal driving should be centered solely in the UI benefits (less foot movement, etc.) rather than even mentioning regen.