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The Miele Dialog: cook a fish in ice without melting the ice
- Qelmo 3y agoI hate pages like this. It literaly doesn't tell you how they do it. But i lost interest at the price tag of 9600
- mckn1ght 3y agoYeah, I too was annoyed that they don’t talk about the how at all. It’s a really long page, about 3x longer than it needs to be. My guess is infrared, but I was hoping someone more knowledgeable could chime in.
- mrguyorama 3y agoThe worst part is that it is 3x longer than it needs to be because every claim they make is repeated, nearly identically and without further elaboration, at least 3 times. It's like watching the same exact commercial 3 times
- mytailorisrich 3y agoNot too many possibilities. Perhaps constructive inyerferences in microwaves so that the power, and thus heating, is precisely focused within a specific volumetric location. Oven beamforming. Or another highly directive radiation source, again to target a specific location.
- throw310822 3y agoThe question is more... ok, target a specific location where? Does it actually know where the different food items are on the tray, where is their center and where is their surface, and how each should be cooked separately?
- mytailorisrich 3y agoMarketing material always makes it extra fancy but it's quite possible that the actual manual says that you must make sure that what you want to heat is at the centre because that's where the energy will be focused.
- throw310822 3y agoAlso possible, though I got the impression that it was actually directing energy to specific places. And I was already fantasizing about microwave oven with CT-scanner :)
- ImPostingOnHN 3y agoPerhaps it is effectively radar that cooks stuff, and which can thus theoretically beamform and read directional reflections to detect where the food is. Because it is mostly-enclosed, it can theoretically additionally detect how much energy isn't going back into the closed loop, and thus went into the food. Disclaimer: I am not a radiologist.
- alfalfasprout 3y ago$9k isn't too bad for a high end oven tbh.
- nathancahill 3y agoYeah, they're going to sell some many of these if the marketing is somewhat close to reality. Instant buy for anyone outfitting a high-end home.
- webstrand 3y ago9600 might be worth it, but the fact that it's tied to the internet and an app, I have no interest.
- tptacek 3y agoIf it works well, the price will plummet over the next 10 years.
- gwern 3y agohttps://reviewed.usatoday.com/ovens/features/we-tried-an-oven-that-cooks-by-listening-to-your-food-and-its-amazing-miele-dialog https://reviewed.usatoday.com/ovens/features/we-tried-an-ove... is a much better writeup. It seems to be a directional microwave, where it monitors how much microwave gets reflected back as a proxy for how much is being absorbed by the food in each spot, so it can ramp up/down the power as necessary to deliver the requested amount of energy. Pretty neat.
- yetanotherloser 3y agothat has some weird parallels with modern military radar. Also, I didn't want one when I read their marketing page, but now I'm intrigued.
- evilduck 3y agoIt ought to, microwave ovens have roots to obsolete military radar too.
- JaggedJax 3y agoReading their copy and looking at the photos I was pretty sure it was microwave based since that was the only thing that fit with it heating "evenly throughout," the bland colors, and lack of any burning or charring. Given this, I wonder how the flavor will turn out in these dishes. Traditionally microwaving fish and steak aren't the tastiest ways to prepare them, but maybe the improved control solves that problem somewhat?
- jfengel 3y agoMicrowaving is bad for steak, since steak really benefits from a browned exterior. It's actually an OK way to prepare many fish, though. Many fish have a delicate flavor that would be overwhelmed by browning, and also a delicate texture that would fall apart in most applications that would brown them. Poaching is a common way to gently raise the temperature of such fish until just cooked through, and you can emulate that in a microwave. Put them in a glass pan, add some water and flavorings (herbs, lemon, etc), and nuke until cooked through. That's applied mostly to smaller, whiter fish, and to salmon. The bigger and redder fish like tuna, shark, etc. are more likely to be cooked the way steak is -- often not just rare, but raw in the center. Anyway... I dunno if a $10,000 fancy microwave would be worth it as a glorified fish poacher.
- wkdneidbwf 3y agothis revolutionary microwave will cook a fish in ice while simultaneously draining your wallet to completion.
- blovescoffee 3y agoI love cooking and science. I cannot figure out why anyone would want to cook a salmon in ice? even if it's possible, what's the actual value?
- nsxwolf 3y agoWondering the same thing. Is this a culinary technique, or just a way to show off some novel directed energy cooking technology?
- lifestyleguru 3y agoShowing off to other rich obnoxious people.
- FpUser 3y agoThis, except "obnoxious". Nice uninformed person could still fall for it
- lifestyleguru 3y agoThey have no interest to befriend nice non rich people.
- drewcoo 3y agoWhich presumably sells more ovens!
- bombcar 3y agoA surprisingly large number of these high end ovens are sold into houses where they are literally never used. I'm talking touring a ten year old house and I open the oven and the original manual is still taped to the grill. At least in this case it might be shown off as a party trick.
- lifestyleguru 3y ago
- blackbear_ 3y agoOh, I thought this was one of those fancy consulting interview questions with a twist.
- dingnuts 3y agoI'm a fan of Miele but isn't this just an ad? Couldn't the HN post be a link to something interesting about the technology instead of an advertisement?
- hammock 3y agoMiele's new Dialog oven is technically a combi microwave/convection/steam oven (similar to what Starbucks heats up your food in), but uses longer wavelength radiation than a standard microwave. Longer wavelengths can penetrate food more deeply. It's called RF solid state cooking. It uses radio frequency as a heat source. It allows for much higher precision (compared to traditional speed cooking methods that combine microwave technology and traditional oven elements) due to the RF signals providing a feedback loop. They respond back and help the oven understand and target specific zones within the cooking cavity. Hence the name: “Dialog” By regulating the oven’s heat in one place, you can cook the fish while the ice stays frozen. Another such example is making cooked and raw salmon at the same time, by focusing the oven’s action at specific areas of the salmon
- resolutebat 3y agoOk, that's the marketing spiel, but how does this differ from a regular microwave?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- londons_explore 3y agoI suspect it uses phased array antennas to: * Direct microwaves at different parts of the food differently. That way you can cook some stuff lots while leaving other parts cold. * Detect which parts of the food are cooked - by watching the absorption of microwaves across a broad range of frequencies, you should be able to detect chemical reactions that happen at certain temperatures - eg. ice turning to water, or raw egg becoming cooked egg. Combine these two things, and you can cook food far 'better' - and get all of your meat to the perfect temperature while overcooking none.
- londons_explore 3y agoNotably, I don't think you need phased array antennas to do this. A few bits of spinning metal to scatter microwaves in random directions could instead be controlled by servos and lots of maths to send microwaves in very specific directions. And as long as you make sure you have feedback, you can realtime adjust the microwave power every few microseconds to do all the same things.
- lifestyleguru 3y ago...and that's why you're not getting payrise this year. Rich people want cooked fish in ice.
- dangoodmanUT 3y agoWas waiting for it to have AI Thank god no AI
- gumballindie 3y agoThe new corpo mantra is: "put ai in it and make it lame".
- rpmisms 3y agoI wonder if you could replace a sous vide bag with this...
- atentaten 3y agoThe strangeness of cooking a fish in ice made me think of another strange thing people do with fish -- Ying Yang Fish: https://www.odditycentral.com/foods/yin-and-yang-fish-a-controversial-dish-thats-both-dead-and-alive.html https://www.odditycentral.com/foods/yin-and-yang-fish-a-cont...
- jahnu 3y agoTruly disturbing! > First, the scales of the live fish were carefully removed without hurting it; That’s a bold claim
- arsome 3y agoThe GE Trivection oven again? Really?
- expazl 3y agoThank god, finaly! I was getting so annoyed at my ice melting when cooking fish and the beeswax melting when cooking tenderloin. Why didn't anyone think of this before? /S When you have a product you think is cool but you don't yet have a sales pitch. Wait until you figure out your sales pitch to release it. This might be a great oven, but the material just makes it seem like a really random gimmick that no one needs outside of filming TikToks about how random it is.
- cpr 3y agoSo it's like the DEW weapons that can cook half a car in the twin towers parking lot and leave the other half perfectly intact...
- joshspankit 3y ago> The new M Chef cooking method utilises energy in form of Gourmet Units. The appliance maintains a constant dialog with the ingredients to cook dishes in their entirety, until achieving the desired result. (emphasis mine) Personally I’d take this paragraph out of the marketing altogether. Making up your own units sounds suspicious, and making up ones that are generic + high concept sounds even more suspicious. The rest of the marketing tells me they might have a product that’s truly new and interesting. Those (presumably real, and we’ll find out when the public can test it) pictures are excitingly wild.
- xerox13ster 3y agoThe thing that made me more suspicious than that did was the fact that all the pictures comparing results were at an angle with the Miele result farther away and angled so you couldn't see it. the one head-on picture of the results was of a white fish that looked suspiciously like sashimi. I'm dubious to say the least. Why not show the clear delineation between cooked and uncooked salmon straight on instead of canted like that?
- joshspankit 3y agoGreat point
- dang 3y agoOriginal URL was https://www.miele.com/brand/en/revolutionary-excellence-38683.htm https://www.miele.com/brand/en/revolutionary-excellence-3868.... Readers may want to look at both.
- cushychicken 3y agoThat is very, very cool. The headline fish cooking example is really impressive. I didn't think the neatest thing I saw on HN today would be an oven!
- fomine3 3y agoWhy is it flagged?
- pronouncedjerry 3y agoApril Fools'?