5 ms·

Literally, yes. On the NHS, they will exhaust cheaper solutions that have a fair probability of working before trying more expensive ones. Age, long term progno

Literally, yes. On the NHS, they will exhaust cheaper solutions that have a fair probability of working before trying more expensive ones. Age, long term prognosis, whether they have dependents, and some other factors are also considered.

Traubenfuchs 3y ago
> dependants You mean ones life is valued more if one has children?
- teamonkey 3y ago
  If you have young children that depend on you, yes.
  - copperx 3y ago
    Do they look up records? Is this ethical? Does this also happen in the US or other countries?
    - teamonkey 3y ago
      It’s the UK, they have the medical history. They also ask the patient about their situation. And I made it sound mechanical, but AI has not taken over all decisions like this yet. I believe it’s a discussion between a team of doctors where they are considering the humanity and ethics of the situation as well as the cost. Like, what would be the impact on the child/dependent if the parent was to die, do they have another parent or family members they can live with, can they fend for themselves, etc.
- dekhn 3y ago
  There's an entire subfield dedicated to calculating life values for making difficult decisions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_life I don't recall seeing having children as a variable in that valuation, it's typically more about how many years of work you continue to do, cast back into current dollars ("present value lifetime earnings", see https://escholarship.org/content/qt82d0550k/qt82d0550k.pdf?t=li5h7t https://escholarship.org/content/qt82d0550k/qt82d0550k.pdf?t...) and normalized for base rates.
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  I mean, yeah. Of course it is.
  - copperx 3y ago
    No, I wouldn't say a life with dependents has more value. However, I do think it should be prioritized over those without dependents. But that has nothing to do with inherent value.
    - BobaFloutist 3y ago
      But I'm not talking about inherent value, I'm talking about the calculations that go into health care. The life of a person raising children should absolutely be valued higher than that of one who isn't. And I want to be clear, I don't have children, and I don't plan to, so this isn't selfishly motivated, it's just common sense to me.
  - Traubenfuchs 3y ago
    More children mean a bigger climate footprint. Also, some children will be net negative on the tax and societal side (violent criminals that will never be gainfully employed). So it's not black and white. And I at least pay more taxes than a family of 3, assuming all of them are, for example, "just" store clerks. So, what I want to say is, assuming we follow this value of life calculation, I am more valuable than this whole family of three.
    - BobaFloutist 3y ago
      Ok, but the children already exist. Do you think if their parents are allowed to die they will become less of a tax burden? This isn't an argument about whether or not we should incentivize couples to have children (we absolutely should, in my opinion), but whether parents of young children should be prioritized for life saving treatment. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think the additional value of not leaving children parentless is worth including in the calculation.
    - Slamidan 3y ago

Traubenfuchs 3y ago

> dependants You mean ones life is valued more if one has children?

teamonkey 3y ago
If you have young children that depend on you, yes.
- copperx 3y ago
  Do they look up records? Is this ethical? Does this also happen in the US or other countries?
  - teamonkey 3y ago
    It’s the UK, they have the medical history. They also ask the patient about their situation. And I made it sound mechanical, but AI has not taken over all decisions like this yet. I believe it’s a discussion between a team of doctors where they are considering the humanity and ethics of the situation as well as the cost. Like, what would be the impact on the child/dependent if the parent was to die, do they have another parent or family members they can live with, can they fend for themselves, etc.
dekhn 3y ago
There's an entire subfield dedicated to calculating life values for making difficult decisions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_life I don't recall seeing having children as a variable in that valuation, it's typically more about how many years of work you continue to do, cast back into current dollars ("present value lifetime earnings", see https://escholarship.org/content/qt82d0550k/qt82d0550k.pdf?t=li5h7t https://escholarship.org/content/qt82d0550k/qt82d0550k.pdf?t...) and normalized for base rates.
BobaFloutist 3y ago
I mean, yeah. Of course it is.
- copperx 3y ago
  No, I wouldn't say a life with dependents has more value. However, I do think it should be prioritized over those without dependents. But that has nothing to do with inherent value.
  - BobaFloutist 3y ago
    But I'm not talking about inherent value, I'm talking about the calculations that go into health care. The life of a person raising children should absolutely be valued higher than that of one who isn't. And I want to be clear, I don't have children, and I don't plan to, so this isn't selfishly motivated, it's just common sense to me.
- Traubenfuchs 3y ago
  More children mean a bigger climate footprint. Also, some children will be net negative on the tax and societal side (violent criminals that will never be gainfully employed). So it's not black and white. And I at least pay more taxes than a family of 3, assuming all of them are, for example, "just" store clerks. So, what I want to say is, assuming we follow this value of life calculation, I am more valuable than this whole family of three.
  - BobaFloutist 3y ago
    Ok, but the children already exist. Do you think if their parents are allowed to die they will become less of a tax burden? This isn't an argument about whether or not we should incentivize couples to have children (we absolutely should, in my opinion), but whether parents of young children should be prioritized for life saving treatment. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think the additional value of not leaving children parentless is worth including in the calculation.
  - Slamidan 3y ago