6 ms·

I do this for a living. Setting up a small operation and doing the physical actions of designing, manufacturing and selling the toasters is the easy, fun and o

I do this for a living. Setting up a small operation and doing the physical actions of designing, manufacturing and selling the toasters is the easy, fun and obvious part. I figure what your looking for, advice wise, is what's not obvious. A few things you'll need: -Product liability insurance, this isn't isn't easy or inexpensive to get. You need to have a lot of the below in place to get it. - UL certification (or equivalent) this can be between $10-60k in total, you need this for anything that plugs into AC mains, anything that has a heater, a safety function, etc. - FCC EMC/EMI testing, you need this if you do any intentional transmitting, have anything with digital electronics, etc. This is also pretty expensive. Then you need to iterate the design until you meet the above. I'm sure I'm missing some things

c_o_n_v_e_x 3y ago
>I'm sure I'm missing some things Manufacturing tooling and test jigs A quality management system Support and RMA systems PLM software although you could probably get away with excel for a while > UL certification / FCC A lot of other certs if you want to sell into overseas markets... Luckily the US market is pretty big
jongjong 3y ago
Everything is regulated these days and it usually costs a fortune and helps nobody except incumbents. Makes everything feel rigged and makes me not want to participate in the economy. I wish we could go back to a time when everyone takes their own risks and has to do their own research. Manufacturers could optionally pay some standards company to add some safety label to it to help boost customer confidence but it should not be compulsory. We're all going to die eventually and this obsession with safety is unhealthy and probably kills more people than it protects (e.g. due to the mental distress they cause and false peace of mind which dumbs down consumers and makes them feel like they don't need to do their own research... Not to mention the social harms caused by the passive 'trust the experts' mindset).
- iancmceachern 3y ago
  I dont know. They killed hundreds building the Brooklyn Bridge, the hoover dam. So many horror stories of things like that xray shield sizer or lawn darts, or laundry mangles, etc. That world wasn't better for anyone but the robber barrons.
- KerrAvon 3y ago
  you need to read up on the history of those regulations. Hint: chesterton’s fence
- zztop44 3y ago
  I love that regulations kill people through both excessive mental distress and false peace of mind. That’s wonderful.
  - jongjong 3y ago
    Regulations are anti-competitive as they prevent people from successfully bootstrapping their startups and becoming entrepreneurs. It forces ambitious people without capital to be wage slaves which causes substantial mental distress. False peace of mind harms people because it makes people assume that all products on the shelves are safe by default which isn't always the case and drives harmful behaviors on a massive scale. Take the adoption of Glyphosate for example. Had people not been reassured by the government that it was 100% safe, many people would not have used it. Consumers outsourcing trust to the government instead of the individuals who produce the goods is harmful because it creates an environment which gives untrustworthy people a competitive edge and a certain degree of protection from liability. It shifts some responsibility away from producers who understand the product best and towards government agencies whose interest is to help large private companies maintain market dominance.
    - danielbln 3y ago
      Someone drank the libertarian cool aid. I'll take my toasters certified and regulated, they might not be 100% safe, but they sure as hell will be safer than what most garage entrepreneurs will cobble together. Details matter, standards matter, and regulation is a way to enforce those.
frozenport 3y ago
Does the toaster on Amazon have these? If not they are extra.
- floren 3y ago
  When too many OOOOLOOO brand toasters start fires, they just close their Amazon profile and create a new one selling FOLGARP brand toasters. You can't have quite that level of untouchability as a US manufacturer, so you have to do it right.
  - throwup238 3y ago
    FOLGARP is the best. Three out of four of the couples I gifted those toasters are now deceased and will never demand a gift from me ever again. The fire investigators just call it an “act of god.” Unfortunately the fourth only burned their house down and now we have to tolerate an insufferable GoFundMe campaign because their CA fire insurance only covers gender reveal parties. Bezos ruins everything.
    - M_bara 3y ago
      Yeah, these fr*cking toasters are out to get humans. Ask colonel Saul
      - DanHulton 3y ago
        I did, but he just keeps trying to cut the corners off all my paper.
        monkeycantype 3y ago
        I really like this comment, and am now trawling DanHulton.com for more
        martypitt 3y ago
        I went hunting on DanHulton.com for some more gold. I was fascinated by the "I Paid The Most" site, and was disappointed it wasn't a real thing (anymore). @DanHulton - tell us all the tale.
brudgers 3y ago
I'm sure I'm missing some things Sufficient capital is the big thing that turns everything else into a technical detail. I mean UL certification is only a problem when the venture is under-capitalized.
- iancmceachern 3y ago
  Very true. Most of these things can be contracted for, there are people like me that do these things. But it's not cheap. It's become somewhat of a litmus test for me. If potential clients are are surprised by the time, cost and effort if these things, it's usually a sign they're not a well thought out venture, and therefore not a great client.
  - Maxion 3y ago
    > It's become somewhat of a litmus test for me. If potential clients are are surprised by the time, cost and effort if these things, it's usually a sign they're not a well thought out venture, and therefore not a great client. This is a pretty good litmus test also for consulting. The amount of companies out there who think they can get an entire mobile app integrated to an existing companies infrastructure (that itself comprises of random SaaS apps from small companies with no APIs) for the equivalent of 2 months of work by one developer is quite astounding.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
      Lots of [fairly inexperienced] developers feed the perception. I don’t know how many times I’ve given someone an honest, thoughtful estimate, and had them come to me, saying “I found this whiz kid, who a gamer friend recommended, who will do it all in a week, as a PWA!” Eight months later, I’m usually asking “So… how’d that work out for you?” We are a few days away from submitting an app I’ve been developing for about a year and a half (but the project has been under way for over three years). The reason that I took it on, was because a [non-technical] friend of mine had created a nonprofit, and was soliciting bids for development of the tech. He didn’t have a particularly detailed plan, but his original idea would have required a massive development effort. The “studios” he was talking to, told him that they would have a fully-functional MVP, in three months. The only person he talked to, that I respected, was a relatively older chap, who basically said "It will be at least six months, and six figures, but come back, when you have a better idea of what you want." -- "We do what we do, not because it is easy, but because we thought it would be easy." - The Programmer's Credo
coffeebeqn 3y ago
> Setting up a small operation and doing the physical actions of designing, manufacturing and selling the toasters is the easy, fun and obvious part. Sure if you’ve spent a decade plus designing and crafting electronics and metal cases. If not - you’ll probably get stuck there
- iancmceachern 3y ago
  There are lots of people you can hire to do those things. Like me. Also, there are services like protocase for the enclosures. They specialize in making semi custom and custom enclosures, they even have design templates that you can download, modify, and then order. It's far easier than it was 20 years ago.

c_o_n_v_e_x 3y ago

>I'm sure I'm missing some things Manufacturing tooling and test jigs A quality management system Support and RMA systems PLM software although you could probably get away with excel for a while > UL certification / FCC A lot of other certs if you want to sell into overseas markets... Luckily the US market is pretty big

jongjong 3y ago

Everything is regulated these days and it usually costs a fortune and helps nobody except incumbents. Makes everything feel rigged and makes me not want to participate in the economy. I wish we could go back to a time when everyone takes their own risks and has to do their own research. Manufacturers could optionally pay some standards company to add some safety label to it to help boost customer confidence but it should not be compulsory. We're all going to die eventually and this obsession with safety is unhealthy and probably kills more people than it protects (e.g. due to the mental distress they cause and false peace of mind which dumbs down consumers and makes them feel like they don't need to do their own research... Not to mention the social harms caused by the passive 'trust the experts' mindset).

iancmceachern 3y ago
I dont know. They killed hundreds building the Brooklyn Bridge, the hoover dam. So many horror stories of things like that xray shield sizer or lawn darts, or laundry mangles, etc. That world wasn't better for anyone but the robber barrons.
KerrAvon 3y ago
you need to read up on the history of those regulations. Hint: chesterton’s fence
zztop44 3y ago
I love that regulations kill people through both excessive mental distress and false peace of mind. That’s wonderful.
- jongjong 3y ago
  Regulations are anti-competitive as they prevent people from successfully bootstrapping their startups and becoming entrepreneurs. It forces ambitious people without capital to be wage slaves which causes substantial mental distress. False peace of mind harms people because it makes people assume that all products on the shelves are safe by default which isn't always the case and drives harmful behaviors on a massive scale. Take the adoption of Glyphosate for example. Had people not been reassured by the government that it was 100% safe, many people would not have used it. Consumers outsourcing trust to the government instead of the individuals who produce the goods is harmful because it creates an environment which gives untrustworthy people a competitive edge and a certain degree of protection from liability. It shifts some responsibility away from producers who understand the product best and towards government agencies whose interest is to help large private companies maintain market dominance.
  - danielbln 3y ago
    Someone drank the libertarian cool aid. I'll take my toasters certified and regulated, they might not be 100% safe, but they sure as hell will be safer than what most garage entrepreneurs will cobble together. Details matter, standards matter, and regulation is a way to enforce those.

frozenport 3y ago

Does the toaster on Amazon have these? If not they are extra.

floren 3y ago
When too many OOOOLOOO brand toasters start fires, they just close their Amazon profile and create a new one selling FOLGARP brand toasters. You can't have quite that level of untouchability as a US manufacturer, so you have to do it right.
- throwup238 3y ago
  FOLGARP is the best. Three out of four of the couples I gifted those toasters are now deceased and will never demand a gift from me ever again. The fire investigators just call it an “act of god.” Unfortunately the fourth only burned their house down and now we have to tolerate an insufferable GoFundMe campaign because their CA fire insurance only covers gender reveal parties. Bezos ruins everything.
  - M_bara 3y ago
    Yeah, these fr*cking toasters are out to get humans. Ask colonel Saul
    - DanHulton 3y ago
      I did, but he just keeps trying to cut the corners off all my paper.
      - monkeycantype 3y ago
        I really like this comment, and am now trawling DanHulton.com for more
        martypitt 3y ago
        I went hunting on DanHulton.com for some more gold. I was fascinated by the "I Paid The Most" site, and was disappointed it wasn't a real thing (anymore). @DanHulton - tell us all the tale.

brudgers 3y ago

I'm sure I'm missing some things Sufficient capital is the big thing that turns everything else into a technical detail. I mean UL certification is only a problem when the venture is under-capitalized.

iancmceachern 3y ago
Very true. Most of these things can be contracted for, there are people like me that do these things. But it's not cheap. It's become somewhat of a litmus test for me. If potential clients are are surprised by the time, cost and effort if these things, it's usually a sign they're not a well thought out venture, and therefore not a great client.
- Maxion 3y ago
  > It's become somewhat of a litmus test for me. If potential clients are are surprised by the time, cost and effort if these things, it's usually a sign they're not a well thought out venture, and therefore not a great client. This is a pretty good litmus test also for consulting. The amount of companies out there who think they can get an entire mobile app integrated to an existing companies infrastructure (that itself comprises of random SaaS apps from small companies with no APIs) for the equivalent of 2 months of work by one developer is quite astounding.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
    Lots of [fairly inexperienced] developers feed the perception. I don’t know how many times I’ve given someone an honest, thoughtful estimate, and had them come to me, saying “I found this whiz kid, who a gamer friend recommended, who will do it all in a week, as a PWA!” Eight months later, I’m usually asking “So… how’d that work out for you?” We are a few days away from submitting an app I’ve been developing for about a year and a half (but the project has been under way for over three years). The reason that I took it on, was because a [non-technical] friend of mine had created a nonprofit, and was soliciting bids for development of the tech. He didn’t have a particularly detailed plan, but his original idea would have required a massive development effort. The “studios” he was talking to, told him that they would have a fully-functional MVP, in three months. The only person he talked to, that I respected, was a relatively older chap, who basically said "It will be at least six months, and six figures, but come back, when you have a better idea of what you want." -- "We do what we do, not because it is easy, but because we thought it would be easy." - The Programmer's Credo

coffeebeqn 3y ago

> Setting up a small operation and doing the physical actions of designing, manufacturing and selling the toasters is the easy, fun and obvious part. Sure if you’ve spent a decade plus designing and crafting electronics and metal cases. If not - you’ll probably get stuck there

iancmceachern 3y ago
There are lots of people you can hire to do those things. Like me. Also, there are services like protocase for the enclosures. They specialize in making semi custom and custom enclosures, they even have design templates that you can download, modify, and then order. It's far easier than it was 20 years ago.