4 ms·

If you can rigorously test your hypotheses in an experiment, it is a scientific field. If you can't, or won't, it is not a scientific field.

rapind 3y ago
There’s probably a grey area for social sciences like economics. I also tend to think there’s real nutritional science but it’s being drowned out by all the snake oil.
- zelse 3y ago
  Snake-oil and moralizing. Dietetics suffers from the same issue that mental health does: there's an underlying stigma that causes people to inflict a moral judgement on the ill; fat people - or so the old line of thinking goes - are immoral. A shocking number of people, including many doctors and scientists, view diabetes as a "fat people disease," and that diabetics are in effect being punished for their gluttony. This isn't always a conscious bias, but it has very negative effects. It reminds me of the studies they've done in Canada and the US about how natives (American Indians) die a lot of the time in the ER because they're immediately written off as alcoholics or drug-addicts, and so their complaints are evaluated through the lens of "this person just wants opiates."
Retric 3y ago
There have been tons of nutritional experiments which are extremely rigorous. Unfortunately, like most fields it’s the junk you read about because rigor is slow/difficult/expensive and therefore less common than BS. Just look at say fusion research and all it’s seriously flawed experiments.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- unsupp0rted 3y ago
  And tons of nutritional experiments demonstrating the exact opposite result, that are also “rigorous”. Sure, human biology is (hundreds of) orders of magnitude more complicated than say going to the moon. But at this point in 2024 we “know” a lot more about physics than we do about nutrition. And maybe that’s because physicists, when faced with contradictory data, keep digging until they figure out the basics once and for all.
  - edanm 3y ago
    That's just not true. We know a lot about the basics of nutrition. Actual nutrition scientists mostly agree on lots of different things. The problem is that the public doesn't want to hear it, so the media keeps running articles that make it simple like "nobody knows anything". Which is just plain false.
    - briHass 3y ago
      Care to list some of the basic tenants of nutrition that are widely agreed upon? About the only things I see as generally accepted are to eat a varied diet (whatever that means), keep total consumed caloric content near the amount expended, eat at least the RDA of micronutrients, and drink enough water to avoid overt dehydration.
      - unsupp0rted 3y ago
        And we're not even sure what the RDA should be, half the time.
      - Retric 3y ago
        At a practical level nutrition isn’t generally a problem, but that says more about the human body / food than the lack of scientific knowledge. There is a long list of things that cannot be synthesized by people and must be consumed. (Elements like Potassium as well as specific nutrients like Vitamin C and Thiamine being well known.) There’s a longer list of things than can be synthesized but should largely be consumed ex: Linoleic acid (LA), an omega-6 fatty acid, and α-linolenic acid (ALA), an omega-3 fatty acid, are considered essential fatty acids because they cannot be synthesized by humans. The long-chain omega-3 fatty acids, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), can be synthesized from ALA, but due to low conversion efficiency, it is recommended to consume foods rich in EPA and DHA. There’s also a lot of basic facts that get complicated when you dig into them. For example calories produced by burning foods isn’t 1:1 with the calories available to people. Cellulose for example burns but is effectively indigestible. One way to investigate this is to have some eat something and then burn their poop, followed by many studies that do so for various reasons. There’s also a lot of nutrition science that straddles the line with medicine. Thus there exists many specialized diets for various conditions etc.
firesteelrain 3y ago
It’s been said that iteratively developing a software based solution is like testing a hypothesis and seeing what works
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
YeGoblynQueenne 3y ago
Where did this definition come from? Did you just make it up? It excludes all of mathematics and most of astronomy, for example.
- harperlee 3y ago
  Well on some contexts maths is apart from science, see e.g. the STEM acronym :)
- dekhn 3y ago
  People generally consider, although this is not universally agreed, that math isn't science. To me the distinction matters, although it's fairly subtle. This is underscored by frequently cited articles, like: "The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences", in which math is treated as separate, but intimately related, to natural philosophy. I think you can do math without science, but you can't do science without math.

rapind 3y ago

There’s probably a grey area for social sciences like economics. I also tend to think there’s real nutritional science but it’s being drowned out by all the snake oil.

zelse 3y ago
Snake-oil and moralizing. Dietetics suffers from the same issue that mental health does: there's an underlying stigma that causes people to inflict a moral judgement on the ill; fat people - or so the old line of thinking goes - are immoral. A shocking number of people, including many doctors and scientists, view diabetes as a "fat people disease," and that diabetics are in effect being punished for their gluttony. This isn't always a conscious bias, but it has very negative effects. It reminds me of the studies they've done in Canada and the US about how natives (American Indians) die a lot of the time in the ER because they're immediately written off as alcoholics or drug-addicts, and so their complaints are evaluated through the lens of "this person just wants opiates."

Retric 3y ago

There have been tons of nutritional experiments which are extremely rigorous. Unfortunately, like most fields it’s the junk you read about because rigor is slow/difficult/expensive and therefore less common than BS. Just look at say fusion research and all it’s seriously flawed experiments.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
unsupp0rted 3y ago
And tons of nutritional experiments demonstrating the exact opposite result, that are also “rigorous”. Sure, human biology is (hundreds of) orders of magnitude more complicated than say going to the moon. But at this point in 2024 we “know” a lot more about physics than we do about nutrition. And maybe that’s because physicists, when faced with contradictory data, keep digging until they figure out the basics once and for all.
- edanm 3y ago
  That's just not true. We know a lot about the basics of nutrition. Actual nutrition scientists mostly agree on lots of different things. The problem is that the public doesn't want to hear it, so the media keeps running articles that make it simple like "nobody knows anything". Which is just plain false.
  - briHass 3y ago
    Care to list some of the basic tenants of nutrition that are widely agreed upon? About the only things I see as generally accepted are to eat a varied diet (whatever that means), keep total consumed caloric content near the amount expended, eat at least the RDA of micronutrients, and drink enough water to avoid overt dehydration.
    - unsupp0rted 3y ago
      And we're not even sure what the RDA should be, half the time.
    - Retric 3y ago
      At a practical level nutrition isn’t generally a problem, but that says more about the human body / food than the lack of scientific knowledge. There is a long list of things that cannot be synthesized by people and must be consumed. (Elements like Potassium as well as specific nutrients like Vitamin C and Thiamine being well known.) There’s a longer list of things than can be synthesized but should largely be consumed ex: Linoleic acid (LA), an omega-6 fatty acid, and α-linolenic acid (ALA), an omega-3 fatty acid, are considered essential fatty acids because they cannot be synthesized by humans. The long-chain omega-3 fatty acids, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), can be synthesized from ALA, but due to low conversion efficiency, it is recommended to consume foods rich in EPA and DHA. There’s also a lot of basic facts that get complicated when you dig into them. For example calories produced by burning foods isn’t 1:1 with the calories available to people. Cellulose for example burns but is effectively indigestible. One way to investigate this is to have some eat something and then burn their poop, followed by many studies that do so for various reasons. There’s also a lot of nutrition science that straddles the line with medicine. Thus there exists many specialized diets for various conditions etc.

firesteelrain 3y ago

It’s been said that iteratively developing a software based solution is like testing a hypothesis and seeing what works

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

YeGoblynQueenne 3y ago

Where did this definition come from? Did you just make it up? It excludes all of mathematics and most of astronomy, for example.

harperlee 3y ago
Well on some contexts maths is apart from science, see e.g. the STEM acronym :)
dekhn 3y ago
People generally consider, although this is not universally agreed, that math isn't science. To me the distinction matters, although it's fairly subtle. This is underscored by frequently cited articles, like: "The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences", in which math is treated as separate, but intimately related, to natural philosophy. I think you can do math without science, but you can't do science without math.