5 ms·

I live in a city that has some of these going through it, and I can say that my opinions changed dramatically after moving here, with respect to this idea. Our

I live in a city that has some of these going through it, and I can say that my opinions changed dramatically after moving here, with respect to this idea. Our real estate agent, in hindsight, had employed numerous subtle tactics to discourage us from taking serious interest in homes that were within a quarter mile or so of these lines, although I was completely oblivious to what they were doing at the time. What I did not appreciate, but they did, is that these rails can bring an absolutely astonishing amount of noise into a town, and behind that a long trail of associated social ills. There is a gradual sifting of residents within a certain distance of these trains, based on who is either loud themselves and thus doesn't mind, or else must tolerate the amount of noise these things make. Our town is old enough that some of the 'nicer' neighborhoods predate the introduction of the rails, so there isn't a strong confounding signal of 'bad' neighborhood correlation at work here. In at least one case there was a house we pushed past our agent's scheduling machinations to see for ourselves, and would likely have closed on had we not happened to visit at just the right time, when a multi-engined repositioning train (which we had no idea was a very common guest on what we thought was a mild mannered commuter rail line) came through. Though unseen and multiple blocks away, it still shook the floorboards as it passed.

Varriount 3y ago
What kinds of noise do the trains produce? Do you think there are any ways to lessen it, and/or have any been implemented? (I'm thinking something like sound barriers).
- ChainOfFools 3y ago
  Not a rail expert, not even a casual spectator. But my unstudied impression is that the noise that penetrates the most is the ultra-low frequency rumble that comes from the diesel side of the drivetrain, with a secondary source being steel on steel squealing of bogeys around bends at the minimal range of their tolerance. But the latter doesn't have the penetrating power of the former, not by a long shot, so to eliminate that I'm not sure if barrier would really have much of an effect. A lot of these in-town runs actually do have some sort of barrier already. Instead powertrain would have to somehow switch entirely to battery while moving through sound propagating areas, and I'm assuming (maybe generously) that this is not already being done for some thorny technical reason and not just due to systemic inertia and complacency.
  - nox101 3y ago
    Japan puts tall fences around highways. I've assumed that's for the noise but never checked. Example: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.webcartop.jp%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2023%2F02%2FO-uchi_Highway-Wall-_002.jpg&tbnid=JgTz9BFT4JUlNM&vet=12ahUKEwiRz8mNp96DAxX1OkQIHZ0GC4YQMygOegQIARBu..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.webcartop.jp%2F2023%2F02%2F1056708%2F&docid=OEkURSrdu6S8dM&w=1500&h=1000&q=%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E3%81%AE%E9%AB%98%E9%80%9F%E9%81%93%E8%B7%AF%E3%81%AE%E5%A3%81&ved=2ahUKEwiRz8mNp96DAxX1OkQIHZ0GC4YQMygOegQIARBu https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.webca...
    - geraldwhen 3y ago
      Many states have those. If not barriers, then large trees.
  - twelvechairs 3y ago
    Or just use electrified trains in the first place, like most of the modern world
    - lmpdev 3y ago
      Electric doesn't eliminate cornering and braking noises unfortunately, which I find as more pronounced open problems
      - katbyte 3y ago
        That noise is far easier to mitigate with sound barriers
  - adrianN 3y ago
    If you want especially quiet operations you can put rubber wheels on trains too.
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    I'm probably missing something, but why would an electric train need a battery? What would the battery be used for?
- cityofdelusion 3y ago
  I’ve lived near tracks a couple times and the loudest by far is the horn from at-grade crossings. If you are a heavy sleeper and a few blocks away it might not matter, but if you are nearby it is incredibly loud.
  - CoffeeOnWrite 3y ago
    For what it’s worth, I lived 50 yards from an at-grade freight track in the city, where from 10pm-7am the trains did not blow their horns, relying on the crossing protective lights and gates only, and that worked for me. Charming train horns during the day (yes they occasionally interrupted me when speaking during video meetings, but it was quaint and no big deal), peace and quiet at night. Great neighborhood, quite desirable, and I would be happy to live there again in the future. Not sure the safety track record, but if it’s favorable, perhaps this kind of program could be expanded. https://www.sanjoseca.gov/your-government/departments-offices/transportation/transit/union-pacific-warm-springs-corridor-quiet-zone https://www.sanjoseca.gov/your-government/departments-office...
- mikrotikker 3y ago
  I live about 150m from a line that goes over a bridge. Twice a day 4pm and 4am. It is not often the night train wakes me, often I wait to hear the click clacks before thinking it might be an earthquake. The day train usually slows since coming the other way it is approaching a pedestrian crossing. I kinda love it because when it speeds up again you can hear it's giant turbo spooling... Sounds so good. The rumbling also sounds kinda cool, sometimes it'll shake the house, I thought about setting up an accelerometer on and Arduino to swee what output I'd see. Often however I think I hear the train but it's just the sea. Or I can hardly hear the train for the noise of the sea.
hedora 3y ago
I grew up half a block from a freight train line, and you could hear it, but it wasn’t really an issue. Trains have gotten a lot louder in the US recently due to lack of rail maintenance. (Concretely, the transbay BART tube is screeches was above osha safety limits inside the car these days, but was quiet when new. The problem is that you need to grind rails to have a rounded top or they screech (and wear out train wheels), but BART doesn’t bother. Anyway, noise pollution has a real impact on health, but so does particulate carbon and benzene from freeways. Before moving near a major road, find out what sort of PM 2.5 is typical, and check to see if everything is coated in black dust. If so, and you can afford some other place, move there instead.
- throwaway2037 3y ago
  > The problem is that you need to grind rails to have a rounded top or they screech (and wear out train wheels), but BART doesn’t bother. I just Googled for <<does bart grind tracks and wheels?>> Plenty of hits indicating that, yes, BART does grind tracks and wheels. > was quiet when new Do you mean in 1974 it was quiet? I tried to Google for any evidence of this and I can find nothing.
  - Groxx 3y ago
    "does not screech horribly" isn't particularly noteworthy, to be fair
  - mikrotikker 3y ago
    I got a friend who did the first grind ever in NZ a few years back, they borrowed the grinder locos from Aussie. Every train driver he talked to commented how amazingly better the rails were after grinding.
gepardi 3y ago
How many cities are split by a massive interstate highway? That noise is constant.
lmpdev 3y ago
Not all locomotives are equal, electric is much quieter than diesel Both older DC and newer AC trains are effectively silent when coasting on a straight The main sources of noise are cornering and braking. I live in a rare city that has narrow gauge for all of our rail, and am less than 200m from the busiest corridor in our state I regret chosing an apartment on a tight bend (narrow gauge's bends are especially loud) But if I were to live 500m away parallel to the track (as in, still 200m away from the track) the mostly AC electric trains going by every few minutes would be largely inaudible (<40dB) My main point is tracks aren't loud, tight corners and areas around stops can be loud I fear city planners aren't testing their decisions closely enough, though
- nradov 3y ago
  On some urban rail lines, the main source of noise is the horn which they blow at every intersection.
  - laszlojamf 3y ago
    Also, as a friend noticed when he bought a ver nice apartment next to the railroad is that they have to (at least in Sweden) maintain the tracks once a month. They do this by going very slowly with a special train that basically runs with the brakes on throwing sparks all over with all the noise you can imagine. And since it's going to slowly, they have to do it when there are the fewest number of other trains running, i.e. at three in the morning.
sendomatic 3y ago
I live in a small town and the loudest sounds besides the train itself is the extremely loud horn it blows before every crossing. Apparently nobody wants to pay for automatic booms at the road crossings so it legally has to use the horn that blasts through the area.
- Workaccount2 3y ago
  We have booms and the horns still legally have to blast the entire neighborhood at 12am...or 4am.
echelon 3y ago
I live next to an intermodal train yard. Literally outside my windows [1]. I love the noise and the trains. You get used to the sounds, and it becomes comforting. Like a loud rain on a rooftop. I feel strange when it's quiet. There are some homes by Georgia Tech that are literally feet from the tracks [2], and I think those are awesome. I also hope these trains don't derail frequently like the ones in Hulsey Yard do. [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVX0KMTa8ZA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVX0KMTa8ZA [2] https://www.redfin.com/GA/Atlanta/576-Marietta-St-NW-30313/home/25540192 https://www.redfin.com/GA/Atlanta/576-Marietta-St-NW-30313/h...
PeterStuer 3y ago
I've always found rail noises subjectively much less stressing than car noise. A well maintained line and fleet would also not have that much screeching.

Varriount 3y ago

What kinds of noise do the trains produce? Do you think there are any ways to lessen it, and/or have any been implemented? (I'm thinking something like sound barriers).

ChainOfFools 3y ago
Not a rail expert, not even a casual spectator. But my unstudied impression is that the noise that penetrates the most is the ultra-low frequency rumble that comes from the diesel side of the drivetrain, with a secondary source being steel on steel squealing of bogeys around bends at the minimal range of their tolerance. But the latter doesn't have the penetrating power of the former, not by a long shot, so to eliminate that I'm not sure if barrier would really have much of an effect. A lot of these in-town runs actually do have some sort of barrier already. Instead powertrain would have to somehow switch entirely to battery while moving through sound propagating areas, and I'm assuming (maybe generously) that this is not already being done for some thorny technical reason and not just due to systemic inertia and complacency.
- nox101 3y ago
  Japan puts tall fences around highways. I've assumed that's for the noise but never checked. Example: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.webcartop.jp%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2023%2F02%2FO-uchi_Highway-Wall-_002.jpg&tbnid=JgTz9BFT4JUlNM&vet=12ahUKEwiRz8mNp96DAxX1OkQIHZ0GC4YQMygOegQIARBu..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.webcartop.jp%2F2023%2F02%2F1056708%2F&docid=OEkURSrdu6S8dM&w=1500&h=1000&q=%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E3%81%AE%E9%AB%98%E9%80%9F%E9%81%93%E8%B7%AF%E3%81%AE%E5%A3%81&ved=2ahUKEwiRz8mNp96DAxX1OkQIHZ0GC4YQMygOegQIARBu https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.webca...
  - geraldwhen 3y ago
    Many states have those. If not barriers, then large trees.
- twelvechairs 3y ago
  Or just use electrified trains in the first place, like most of the modern world
  - lmpdev 3y ago
    Electric doesn't eliminate cornering and braking noises unfortunately, which I find as more pronounced open problems
    - katbyte 3y ago
      That noise is far easier to mitigate with sound barriers
- adrianN 3y ago
  If you want especially quiet operations you can put rubber wheels on trains too.
- lelanthran 3y ago
  I'm probably missing something, but why would an electric train need a battery? What would the battery be used for?
cityofdelusion 3y ago
I’ve lived near tracks a couple times and the loudest by far is the horn from at-grade crossings. If you are a heavy sleeper and a few blocks away it might not matter, but if you are nearby it is incredibly loud.
- CoffeeOnWrite 3y ago
  For what it’s worth, I lived 50 yards from an at-grade freight track in the city, where from 10pm-7am the trains did not blow their horns, relying on the crossing protective lights and gates only, and that worked for me. Charming train horns during the day (yes they occasionally interrupted me when speaking during video meetings, but it was quaint and no big deal), peace and quiet at night. Great neighborhood, quite desirable, and I would be happy to live there again in the future. Not sure the safety track record, but if it’s favorable, perhaps this kind of program could be expanded. https://www.sanjoseca.gov/your-government/departments-offices/transportation/transit/union-pacific-warm-springs-corridor-quiet-zone https://www.sanjoseca.gov/your-government/departments-office...
mikrotikker 3y ago
I live about 150m from a line that goes over a bridge. Twice a day 4pm and 4am. It is not often the night train wakes me, often I wait to hear the click clacks before thinking it might be an earthquake. The day train usually slows since coming the other way it is approaching a pedestrian crossing. I kinda love it because when it speeds up again you can hear it's giant turbo spooling... Sounds so good. The rumbling also sounds kinda cool, sometimes it'll shake the house, I thought about setting up an accelerometer on and Arduino to swee what output I'd see. Often however I think I hear the train but it's just the sea. Or I can hardly hear the train for the noise of the sea.

hedora 3y ago

I grew up half a block from a freight train line, and you could hear it, but it wasn’t really an issue. Trains have gotten a lot louder in the US recently due to lack of rail maintenance. (Concretely, the transbay BART tube is screeches was above osha safety limits inside the car these days, but was quiet when new. The problem is that you need to grind rails to have a rounded top or they screech (and wear out train wheels), but BART doesn’t bother. Anyway, noise pollution has a real impact on health, but so does particulate carbon and benzene from freeways. Before moving near a major road, find out what sort of PM 2.5 is typical, and check to see if everything is coated in black dust. If so, and you can afford some other place, move there instead.

throwaway2037 3y ago
> The problem is that you need to grind rails to have a rounded top or they screech (and wear out train wheels), but BART doesn’t bother. I just Googled for <<does bart grind tracks and wheels?>> Plenty of hits indicating that, yes, BART does grind tracks and wheels. > was quiet when new Do you mean in 1974 it was quiet? I tried to Google for any evidence of this and I can find nothing.
- Groxx 3y ago
  "does not screech horribly" isn't particularly noteworthy, to be fair
- mikrotikker 3y ago
  I got a friend who did the first grind ever in NZ a few years back, they borrowed the grinder locos from Aussie. Every train driver he talked to commented how amazingly better the rails were after grinding.

gepardi 3y ago

How many cities are split by a massive interstate highway? That noise is constant.

lmpdev 3y ago

Not all locomotives are equal, electric is much quieter than diesel Both older DC and newer AC trains are effectively silent when coasting on a straight The main sources of noise are cornering and braking. I live in a rare city that has narrow gauge for all of our rail, and am less than 200m from the busiest corridor in our state I regret chosing an apartment on a tight bend (narrow gauge's bends are especially loud) But if I were to live 500m away parallel to the track (as in, still 200m away from the track) the mostly AC electric trains going by every few minutes would be largely inaudible (<40dB) My main point is tracks aren't loud, tight corners and areas around stops can be loud I fear city planners aren't testing their decisions closely enough, though

nradov 3y ago
On some urban rail lines, the main source of noise is the horn which they blow at every intersection.
- laszlojamf 3y ago
  Also, as a friend noticed when he bought a ver nice apartment next to the railroad is that they have to (at least in Sweden) maintain the tracks once a month. They do this by going very slowly with a special train that basically runs with the brakes on throwing sparks all over with all the noise you can imagine. And since it's going to slowly, they have to do it when there are the fewest number of other trains running, i.e. at three in the morning.

sendomatic 3y ago

I live in a small town and the loudest sounds besides the train itself is the extremely loud horn it blows before every crossing. Apparently nobody wants to pay for automatic booms at the road crossings so it legally has to use the horn that blasts through the area.

Workaccount2 3y ago
We have booms and the horns still legally have to blast the entire neighborhood at 12am...or 4am.

echelon 3y ago

I live next to an intermodal train yard. Literally outside my windows [1]. I love the noise and the trains. You get used to the sounds, and it becomes comforting. Like a loud rain on a rooftop. I feel strange when it's quiet. There are some homes by Georgia Tech that are literally feet from the tracks [2], and I think those are awesome. I also hope these trains don't derail frequently like the ones in Hulsey Yard do. [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVX0KMTa8ZA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVX0KMTa8ZA [2] https://www.redfin.com/GA/Atlanta/576-Marietta-St-NW-30313/home/25540192 https://www.redfin.com/GA/Atlanta/576-Marietta-St-NW-30313/h...

PeterStuer 3y ago

I've always found rail noises subjectively much less stressing than car noise. A well maintained line and fleet would also not have that much screeching.