8 ms·

Grids are constantly adding capacity to keep up with demand. It's not going to go from 1% to 25% overnight.

javawizard 3y ago
Right. From OP's comment I get the sense that the real problem is that Calgary's grid is poorly managed and may not be well placed to add the necessary capacity. For other, better managed grids in the world, you're almost certainly right.
- tamaharbor 3y ago
  Better managed = more expensive. Are electric customers ready for that?
  - thomasmg 3y ago
    Better managed is not necessarily more expensive in the long run, specially when tanking into account secondary benefits such as improved economy because companies that care about stable grids build factories there. But yes, short term it is more expensive.
    - caseysoftware 3y ago
      It makes sense that we'd see temporary taxes, surcharges, and the like to upgrade the existing system. The question is: How long is "temporary"? In the US, a century is NOT out of the question for a "temporary" tax: > The Spanish-American War has been over for more than 100 years, and now so is the tax imposed in 1898 to help fund it. As of Tuesday, all phone companies selling long-distance phone service are legally required to eliminate the 3 percent federal excise tax on long-distance service, which had been established in 1898 as a luxury tax on wealthy Americans who owned telephones. Ref from 2006: https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/telecom-tax-imposed-in-1898-finally-ends/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/telecom-tax-imposed-...
  - slavik81 3y ago
    If think skilled management is expensive, just wait until you see what incompetence costs.
eldaisfish 3y ago
the HN crowd tends to be overzealous about the pace of change in several industries. Electricity here is a good example. No, the electric grid is not constantly adding power capacity. In fact, capacity expansions are planned on the timescale of decades. the previous comment is accurate - everyone switching to EVs even on a single, 80 home street can cause havoc for which we are unprepared.
- bushbaba 3y ago
  Unprepared but solvable problem.
- thebruce87m 3y ago
  The HN crowd is split across a lot of grids. Here are things my grid is doing: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_Link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_Link https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2023/oct/09/worlds-largest-offshore-windfarm-project-starts-powering-uk-grid https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2023/oct/09/worlds-larg...
  - marcosdumay 3y ago
    IMO, the helplessness of the US people when they talk about electricity distribution is hearth breaking. It's not even a "our society can't orchestrate this", but the opinion is usually "it's impossible for people to organize that way".
    - ikt 3y ago
      Weirdly makes me happier with how Australia is progressing, a real 'it could be worse' situation
  - AshamedCaptain 3y ago
    > it became operational on 1 October 2021 ... was first proposed in 2003 Hardly disagrees with the "timescale of decades" remark parent is making.
tedivm 3y ago
This entire thread started with a comment talking about how the grid hasn't been upgraded to keep up with demand. We've also all seen what happens in places like Texas during cold periods. Even beyond just demand, look at how California has a utility that regular burns down entire cities due to poor infrastructure and maintenance.
- tensor 3y ago
  The entire thread started with a comment claiming that the cold ruins everything and the province is mismanaged so that's that there is no solution. But that's not that, clearly there is a solution, and that's to start improving the grid and increase the use of EVs. When every house has a battery backup system and charging infrastructure, and they build more power generation capabilities, nuclear or green, then you will see a hugely more robust grid and cars that will actually work well in even the coldest months.
  - JeffSnazz 3y ago
    > that's to start improving the grid and increase the use of EVs. Notably, one of these needs to occur before the other.
    - tensor 3y ago
      They can happen at the same time. Especially with programs encouraging people to build their own solar. I did that and at least in the summer months cover 90% of my power usage. Winter is more of an issue but this doesn't need to be in a bunch of discrete ordered steps.
      - JeffSnazz 3y ago
        > They can happen at the same time. Ok, maybe I should have said "one of these depends on the other"
        Tagbert 3y ago
respondo2134 3y ago
the provincial government has halted new wind and solar projects for at least a period of time, while the federal government continues to clamp down on any attempts at new fossil fuel plants, hydro takes decades and nuclear is a non-starter. Your first sentence is categorically false here, when discussiong near-term demand increases.
kazinator 3y ago
Adding capacity to a grid is not like getting another rack of hard drives in server room.
delfinom 3y ago
That's not really true. US electrical consumption is down 30% since the 1980s. You can thank significant advancements in electronics and electrical equipment. Many capacity projects are simply to replace aging, no longer economical plants.
- quickthrowman 3y ago
  LED lighting and VFDs have reduced demand quite a bit, particularly the variable frequency drives since 50% of all electrical use is powering induction motors.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
somerandomqaguy 3y ago
Sorta. The Alberta Electric System Operator mentioned that there is an increased risk of power needs not being fully met in 2031 to 2039, in part because of some power plants being decommissioned near the start of 2030 and uncertainty if when their replacements come online (2036 to 2039) as well as uncertainty for of EV charging habits and rate of adoption. But also uncertainty but the major industries that consume a huge amount of power as well and how the power generation industry will react to demands imposed by that. That being said the key word, "Uncertainty." They're the first to admit that they really don't know. Too many factors to consider, and these are some pretty smart people that do this for a living writing these reports.

Right. From OP's comment I get the sense that the real problem is that Calgary's grid is poorly managed and may not be well placed to add the necessary capacity. For other, better managed grids in the world, you're almost certainly right.

tamaharbor 3y ago
Better managed = more expensive. Are electric customers ready for that?
- thomasmg 3y ago
  Better managed is not necessarily more expensive in the long run, specially when tanking into account secondary benefits such as improved economy because companies that care about stable grids build factories there. But yes, short term it is more expensive.
  - caseysoftware 3y ago
    It makes sense that we'd see temporary taxes, surcharges, and the like to upgrade the existing system. The question is: How long is "temporary"? In the US, a century is NOT out of the question for a "temporary" tax: > The Spanish-American War has been over for more than 100 years, and now so is the tax imposed in 1898 to help fund it. As of Tuesday, all phone companies selling long-distance phone service are legally required to eliminate the 3 percent federal excise tax on long-distance service, which had been established in 1898 as a luxury tax on wealthy Americans who owned telephones. Ref from 2006: https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/telecom-tax-imposed-in-1898-finally-ends/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/telecom-tax-imposed-...
- slavik81 3y ago
  If think skilled management is expensive, just wait until you see what incompetence costs.

eldaisfish 3y ago

the HN crowd tends to be overzealous about the pace of change in several industries. Electricity here is a good example. No, the electric grid is not constantly adding power capacity. In fact, capacity expansions are planned on the timescale of decades. the previous comment is accurate - everyone switching to EVs even on a single, 80 home street can cause havoc for which we are unprepared.

bushbaba 3y ago
Unprepared but solvable problem.
thebruce87m 3y ago
The HN crowd is split across a lot of grids. Here are things my grid is doing: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_Link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_Link https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2023/oct/09/worlds-largest-offshore-windfarm-project-starts-powering-uk-grid https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2023/oct/09/worlds-larg...
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  IMO, the helplessness of the US people when they talk about electricity distribution is hearth breaking. It's not even a "our society can't orchestrate this", but the opinion is usually "it's impossible for people to organize that way".
  - ikt 3y ago
    Weirdly makes me happier with how Australia is progressing, a real 'it could be worse' situation
- AshamedCaptain 3y ago
  > it became operational on 1 October 2021 ... was first proposed in 2003 Hardly disagrees with the "timescale of decades" remark parent is making.

tedivm 3y ago

This entire thread started with a comment talking about how the grid hasn't been upgraded to keep up with demand. We've also all seen what happens in places like Texas during cold periods. Even beyond just demand, look at how California has a utility that regular burns down entire cities due to poor infrastructure and maintenance.

tensor 3y ago
The entire thread started with a comment claiming that the cold ruins everything and the province is mismanaged so that's that there is no solution. But that's not that, clearly there is a solution, and that's to start improving the grid and increase the use of EVs. When every house has a battery backup system and charging infrastructure, and they build more power generation capabilities, nuclear or green, then you will see a hugely more robust grid and cars that will actually work well in even the coldest months.
- JeffSnazz 3y ago
  > that's to start improving the grid and increase the use of EVs. Notably, one of these needs to occur before the other.
  - tensor 3y ago
    They can happen at the same time. Especially with programs encouraging people to build their own solar. I did that and at least in the summer months cover 90% of my power usage. Winter is more of an issue but this doesn't need to be in a bunch of discrete ordered steps.
    - JeffSnazz 3y ago
      > They can happen at the same time. Ok, maybe I should have said "one of these depends on the other"
      - Tagbert 3y ago

respondo2134 3y ago

the provincial government has halted new wind and solar projects for at least a period of time, while the federal government continues to clamp down on any attempts at new fossil fuel plants, hydro takes decades and nuclear is a non-starter. Your first sentence is categorically false here, when discussiong near-term demand increases.

kazinator 3y ago

Adding capacity to a grid is not like getting another rack of hard drives in server room.

delfinom 3y ago

That's not really true. US electrical consumption is down 30% since the 1980s. You can thank significant advancements in electronics and electrical equipment. Many capacity projects are simply to replace aging, no longer economical plants.

quickthrowman 3y ago
LED lighting and VFDs have reduced demand quite a bit, particularly the variable frequency drives since 50% of all electrical use is powering induction motors.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

somerandomqaguy 3y ago

Sorta. The Alberta Electric System Operator mentioned that there is an increased risk of power needs not being fully met in 2031 to 2039, in part because of some power plants being decommissioned near the start of 2030 and uncertainty if when their replacements come online (2036 to 2039) as well as uncertainty for of EV charging habits and rate of adoption. But also uncertainty but the major industries that consume a huge amount of power as well and how the power generation industry will react to demands imposed by that. That being said the key word, "Uncertainty." They're the first to admit that they really don't know. Too many factors to consider, and these are some pretty smart people that do this for a living writing these reports.