23 ms·

Cars suck, man

191 points by petargyurov 3y ago

wbobeirne 3y ago
With regards to the OPs note about headlights being too bright: Has anyone adjusted their headlight angles? I noticed oncoming traffic has occasionally been flashing their brights at me, and I suspect they think I left my brights on and are trying to tell me. I'd love to drop my headlight angle a degree or two but don't know if that's a daunting task on a modern car.
- ramraj07 3y ago
  There was a bestof Reddit post about some automotive expert who worked on designing headlights who put a large passage about why lights look brighter. I felt that it was just a large gaslighting exercise in the end lol.
- Abekkus 3y ago
  This can also be due to dirty/aged headlight covers dissipating your headlight beams wider than intended. You can get kits to clean them, but it’s a bit tricky
- ryukoposting 3y ago
  If you consider my 24 year old car "modern," then my modern car is easy. There's a screw on top of each headlight that will tilt them up and down. I thought I noticed people flashing their brights at me, but then I realized it's actually them hitting a small bump, thereby raising the angle of their LED headlights momentarily. I drive a somewhat low-sitting sedan, so SUV LED headlights do that a lot.
- kedikedi 3y ago
  Two things; modern HID or laser or LED headlights should have the auto adjustment, so just jump to the second paragraph if you have one of these. But halogens can be adjusted usually from inside. They tend to have adjustment buttons to compensate for load (situation might be different for US cars, I’ve seen this with EU cars). This could be easier place to get started. The manual adjustment is also very easy :) there are some screws on your headlight assembly that you need to rotate. It is different for different cars, though. So I’d suggest referring to YouTube for your own car’s adjustments.
- ed_balls 3y ago
  older cars had a knob to adjust them. With LEDs you usually have to open the hood and use a wrench or they can auto adjust. Service should do it for it.
- CogitoCogito 3y ago
  I do feel there’s a regulatory failure with headlight angles in the US. Owners of maladjusted headlights should get fix it tickets and it should be strictly enforced. If a car without high beams blinds you, something is wrong.
- kristjank 3y ago
  It seems like most are just broken out of the box. I have never encountered a Tesla on the road that did not blind me, regardless of whether it was behind or in front of me. Some manufacturers just get away with shitty light projection.
- apapapa 3y ago
  > Has anyone adjusted their headlight angles? My Mazda has a scroll wheel to adjust their angle
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didgeoridoo 3y ago
> Cars are getting too big; why are manufacturers pushing “crossovers” and SUVs on consumers and why are consumers buying them? I could write pages on this point alone. I’ve got 3 kids under 5. Car seats are absolutely enormous these days — it’s impossible to fit 3 across in even the largest “crossovers” (VW Atlas / KIA Telluride). I don’t want a big car (my dream car is something along the lines of the Audi A4 Allroad Saloon) but I also sometimes need to bring all my kids to the same place. Figure out a way to safely downsize car seats and I bet SUV purchases would drop 10% or more.
- jhbadger 3y ago
  Back in the day, there were station wagons for this exact use case, Larger than a sedan, but not the ridiculous tank-like SUVs of today.
  - FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
    You can still buy a Subaru Outback. The infotainment is horrendous (just give me knobs!), but otherwise it's supposed to be a dependable station wagon, at a reasonable price, without too many frills. The AWD does hurt gas mileage, but has advantages in snow and dirt, and basically means that it's as capable as an SUV in all but ground clearance.
  - kj4211cash 3y ago
    I bought a V60, one of the few remaining station wagons for sale in the US. And it is great for those with 1 or 2 kids, but, like the author implies, doesn't really work for those with 3 car seats. The only thing that has grown faster than the size of our cars is the size of our car seats.
- buro9 3y ago
  > Figure out a way to safely downsize car seats and I bet SUV purchases would drop 10% or more. Like an Estate / Station Wagon, a category of very capable cars that is being extinguished by the rise of SUV.
  - 3y ago
hnthrowaway0328 3y ago
Maybe just grab a second hand Toyato that can pretty much run indefinitely as long as it is maintained. That's my plan if my wife decides to ditch me :p
- beretguy 3y ago
  Unexpected ending.
  - hnthrowaway0328 3y ago
    Getting divorced is probably many men' fantasy :D
- at0mic22 3y ago
  I'm owning 2004 Toyota 120 as a hobby car. Fairy tales about old Toyota's being ultra reliable make me cry. On the bright side - they are fixable and manageable, but you cant avoid inevitable agening problems. Think I have invested as much as the buying price to repairs already
- stefs 3y ago
  Usually the problem is availability of spare parts.
  - LightBug1 3y ago
    Currently running a 2005 Toyota. No problem at all regarding spare parts so far. I class it as one of my best, unwittingly made decisions to keep that car considering what I've seen of new cars over the last 10 years.
hasty_pudding 3y ago
I had a ford van I drove for decades, then tried to buy a new car and holy shit the amount of electronic gadgets on all cars nowadays is insane. you cant just buy a simple car anymore.
api 3y ago
Makes me really happy with the Nissan Leaf I bought a few years ago. It’s a Nissan Versa with an electric motor and battery in it. That means most of the parts on the car are standard and the body is cheap to repair. Lots of higher end EVs have stupid high repair costs from minor accidents due to this not being the case. It has a dumb infotainment system that I just plug a phone into and use as a screen. All the car’s critical functions are physical buttons that are ergonomically placed. Acceleration and handling is fine. In fact it out accelerates most gas cars. It has one pedal driving. The adaptive cruise control and auto steer work great. If you are stuck in traffic it just guides you along leaving a selectable distance between you and the car ahead. Steering assist has never tried to kill me. 220 miles of range is more than enough for a city car and I can charge it at home for stupid cheap. (It’s like $8 to fill from zero off home power, about 1/4 to 1/6 the cost of fueling an efficient gas car.) It’s small and electric and is called a “Leaf” so it does nothing for one’s penis. But I am secure in that department. Literally the only sucky thing about it is its CHaDEMo fast charge port which is chonky and a fading standard. Makes it not great for road trips but we have an old gas second car for that. Make a model of this with a bit more range and NACS and Nissan would have the ultimate boring competent EV that I want. I like the car enough for its boring competence that I’ve looked into CCS or NACS conversion. Apparently it’s possible and there are people working on kits but I’d have to find someone to do the install since I don’t have time for such a project. PSA: anyone who knows high voltage electronics well could design and crowdfund a NACS to CHaDEMo dongle on Crowdsupply no problem. It would be non trivial though because it would have to be powered. But there are enough cars with that older standard to make millions on such a device. I’d spend as much as $1000 or a bit more for one.
- matthewowen 3y ago
  That’s great, but you have a second car to cover the things your primary car can’t do! That might make sense if you do a daily commute that makes the convenience and running costs of the smaller car worth it. In general I see a lot of snark about people driving (eg) trucks around that people assume they can’t possibly need. But the reality is that people buy their vehicles based on the most challenging routine thing they need their car to do. I mostly only have four people in my minivan, but the extra space is great for road trips or when the grandparents visit. A lot of people have trucks because they want the towing capacity a few times a year, or they want the space to haul dirty stuff. IDK, I find the dismissiveness of “must be compensating for something” a little tiresome and honestly kind of incurious.
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gumby 3y ago
I see kitchen appliances are in the shit pit of the author’s graph and I can definitely testify to that. We just bought a new dishwasher and several of the advertised features are only accessible if I connect it to the net and use an app. Since I won’t connect it to the net, I could have saved money by buying a model that didn’t advertise those features.
- pxmpxm 3y ago
  Household appliance in general - our new GE washer and dryer has wifi for use case uknown, but to pay for the BOM they removed the interior drum lights.
  - Loughla 3y ago
    The new washer/dryer all in one is absolutely confusing to me. So you can leave your clothes in one machine, and in two hours everything is washed and dried. But now I have to wait two hours for each load of laundry, versus 45 minutes and swap between machines. They have effectively more than doubled the time laundry takes. Who thought that was a good idea?
    - XorNot 3y ago
      Did you consider not buying a product which doesn't suit your use case? Did the market suddenly lose all single function devices?
      - Loughla 3y ago
        Why is it a trend to act as if you shouldn't have any opinions about something just because there are other things you can buy? I did not buy an all in one. I was just saying that they don't make sense to me. I'm allowed to have opinions. I'm a human.
        deleted 3y ago
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mberning 3y ago
On the “who’s to blame” front you can put banks at the top of the list. They are the ones that make it easy for people to “buy” these modern monstrosities. If people did not have access to wild financing options the cars they could afford to buy would be much more modest.
- acdha 3y ago
  I think about that watching all of these insecure guys struggling to park huge pickup trucks in a city, or simply stay within the painted lane markings. These pristine vehicles are clearly unused for their ostensible purpose and it seems unlikely that everyone is so rich that buying an $80k luxury model isn’t a financial concern, so I’m hoping that interest rates returning to normal levels will reverse that trend.
  - mberning 3y ago
    Big trucks are well into 6 figures now. And with the miracle of 100 month loans they have suddenly become accessible to people with a median income and a highly impoverished financial education.
    - acdha 3y ago
      Yeah, I have these eerie flashbacks to 2007, wondering how so many people were buying huge houses and reminding myself that it was all due to willingness to incur massive levels of debt. This time around it’s even worse since the assets depreciate rapidly and there’s much less resale value if the lifestyle accessory community moves on to something else: most of those extra expenses are things which subtract utility for the people who need to buy one.
- maxerickson 3y ago
  Aggressive financing makes the total cost go up.
SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
I like frame rate interpolation.
- petargyurov 3y ago
  OP here. Yes officer, this one right here. But in all seriousness, why? I would maybe find it tolerable if it was consistent, but most of my experience is that it ramps up to 48/60fps and back down to 24fps in a matter of seconds. It's jarring.
  - Adverblessly 3y ago
    (not GP) If it is at 24fps it is already stuttery on my 60hz monitor (not a TV and not smart!), so anything is better than constant, obvious stuttering (which I understand most people learn to ignore, but I can't). In my experience it either works perfectly or it is just the 24fps stutter, so having perfection 70% of the time and stuttering 30% of the time is better than stuttering 100% of the time. For my family who have smart TVs I've noticed 0 issues with the interpolation itself and it is always a smooth 60fps (which IMO is better than smooth 24fps), though they also have some ML sharpening enabled which sometimes has strange artifacts. FWIW I also can't play video games at <60fps and have trouble enjoying any fast paced action scene shot at 24hz (with the exception of anime, where at least every frame is carefully constructed and chosen to work at the intended framerate and isn't just a blurry mess)
  - SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
    Because I like 60 fps. On Samsungs I've seen it was consistent.
mlrtime 3y ago
"I am not car aficionado" This tells me that his level of understanding of the wide range of cars and features. Are their bad cars and bad UIs, yes. However, as someone who has been driving for 30 years, cars are better in every way now than they were before (From a driving, efficiency, reliability and safety perspective). The only thing that is arguably "worse" is self servicability. However this is a function of complexity that exists throughout all technology. Also, these features that everyone on HN complains about.. they are being added because the general population wants them. There are very few people who would buy a car without any screens, ui or infotainment. You wouldn't save any money because a lot of this tech is required for saftey and would be bespoke thus costing more.
- jspash 3y ago
  What gets me about newer cars is that they seem to be stolen at the same rate as they have always been (conjecture. i could be entirely mistaken). What with keyless entry, immobilizers and standard car alarms, I would expect them to be virtually theft-proof nowadays.
  - astura 3y ago
    Motor vehicle thefts look down to me https://www.statista.com/statistics/191216/reported-motor-vehicle-theft-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/191216/reported-motor-ve...
- cowpig 3y ago
  > cars are better in every way now than they were before The author listed a bunch of ways that they are not. Perhaps it would be more interesting to address those directly
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  > There are very few people who would buy a car without any screens, ui or infotainment. I really don't get this - just put a space in the dash where I can stick a phone that charges it and connects to the car audio. I have an old GM car with Carplay that all still works pretty well, but it's basically just a second screen for my phone and as such I barely use it.
bsenftner 3y ago
I saw this coming, and purchased a 2016 Subaru Forester as a durable car without any "smart features" and I am expecting to drive that until 2030, or until this "smart car" nonsense is over. Likewise, no smart devices at all; hell I write the software for smart devices and there is no f'ing way I'm letting anything non-local only be "smart" in my home. Our collective civilization is far to immature to not exploit smart devices against their user's benefit.
underdeserver 3y ago
> Cars are getting too big; why are manufacturers pushing “crossovers” and SUVs on consumers and why are consumers buying them? I could write pages on this point alone. I think this is partially a race to the bottom (or to the top, as it were). When you're driving your low-riding sedan in traffic, if the car in front of you is an SUV, you can't see beyond it. If most cars become SUVs, you can't see two cars ahead almost ever. That's a crappy feeling - I for one feel less safe, less able to predict if an emergency stop is going to happen - so I'd be unconsciously nudged into buying a taller car myself.
- CogitoCogito 3y ago
  I can’t really understand this sentiment. If you keep enough distance you’ll be able to stop in time regardless of what’s down the road. I personally feel safer in smaller cars.
  - underdeserver 3y ago
    Well, I don't know how it is where you drive, but here you have two options: you either stay just close enough that you can stop in an emergency, but no closer, and certainly not a "comfortable" distance; or you can get cut off every couple of seconds.
    - CogitoCogito 3y ago
      My experiences are driving mainly in California and New York. I definitely have not had the problems you’ve described and I wouldn’t consider drivers in either location to be very good in general. I’ve driven larger cars as well and they’ve never made me feel safer. Edit: The more I think about it, I’m actually kind of confused by your point. Even assuming what you say is true, how does driving a larger car avoid the problem of people cutting you off anyway? Is your “solution” to drive a larger car and tailgate or something?
      - gdilla 3y ago
        Larger vehicles suck to me, because you feel blinder than necessary. It's a larger car to park, it feels less agile to do a quick maneuver like dodging something on the road or squeezing by an idiot drifting into your lane. I like zipping past idiots and fitting through an opening if i get one.
rmbyrro 3y ago
I'm very grateful for the freedom,comfort, speed and safety that modern cars provide me with.
- stefs 3y ago
  The post argues that modern cars really are better than ever, the problem is enshittification from focusing on the wrong aspects, making the experience worse than it could be. Your modern car could be a lot better than it is, but it probably would hurt sales.
  - rmbyrro 3y ago
    I'll stick to being happy with it and I don't mind the downvotes, I'm very very grateful to the cars I've had and they're enough for me to be happy. I don't want to waste my time wishing how even better it could be. It's going to continue getting better and the rate of improvement is good for me. Perhaps other people are a lot more demanding?..
gambiting 3y ago
>>Actually, scratch that – have you used a “smart” TV in the past 5 years? – it’s awful. I have, but I guess the author hasn't. I've got a 2020 LG CX and it's smooth, works fast, has all the apps I need, including for streaming local media, and it has zero ads. I sort of lost interest after that point, if you can't make a reasonable point right at the start why even continue?
- ramraj07 3y ago
  LGs and Samsungs have become the premium brands with associated pricing and is not the ones that are made for the majority. Not to mention it’s not universal that they make good smart tvs either.
  - rcarmo 3y ago
    LG is well on the path to enshittification with ads, although Samsung is already way below water level there. Both do image fingerprinting and phone home your viewing habits (my LG is neutered, and I would still buy LG for the overall quality, but I don’t think I will ever again plug a TV onto my network directly).
    - hparadiz 3y ago
      Sony is the real premium brand among them. Their OLED series runs almost stock Android TV.
- akho 3y ago
  The article was written by a person who bought a 3D TV when they were available.
- Hamuko 3y ago
  My LG C1 definitely has ads, which show up as toast notifications when you open the TV. I think I once got an ad for Google Stadia for example. That being said, it seems to very rarely show them. I think I can count the number of times I see one in a year with my fingers. As for the smart TV side, I have no idea if there's ads there since I basically only ever use my Apple TV. https://www.reddit.com/r/LGOLED/comments/xzxhjr/how_do_i_deactivate_these_advertisement_popups/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LGOLED/comments/xzxhjr/how_do_i_dea...
Waterluvian 3y ago
Cars and driving has only become safer and more reliable while the cost hasn’t exactly gone flying up. To me it’s actually quite an incredible success story of regulation dancing in harmony with mass production and capitalism. I’ve also not experienced what the author is complaining about. I’m sure it exists but it’s not unavoidable, at the very least.
- kredd 3y ago
  Car death/injury rate is in 20 year high again but only in the US. I’m not 100% sure if the culture or the cars themselves are the main contributors to the statistic, but it’s not really getting better anymore.
  - Waterluvian 3y ago
    If I had to guess I’d say it’s because of smartphones.
    - kredd 3y ago
      Smartphones are a thing outside of US as well. Doesn’t track, given in EU/Japan and etc. traffic accidents haven’t increased in similar rates.
sriacha 3y ago
>Have you tried shopping for a TV in the past 5 years? Actually, scratch that – have you used a “smart” TV in the past 5 years? – it’s awful. Sure, displays are getting better, but manufacturers insist on cramming bloatware and spyware, embellished in the worst UI imaginable, running on a processor designed for a smartwatch. Anyone have recommendations for a "dumb" TV in 2024?
- kredd 3y ago
  Honestly, any smart TV connected to Apple TV is fine. You can skip the wifi enablement on your TV and will never think of the bloatware in your life. Been with that setup for 5+ years, have absolutely zero complaints about my “smart TV” for that reason.
  - rcarmo 3y ago
    Yup. My LG is stuck at the EULA “we reserve the right to watch what you watch” screen but works fine as a dumb monitor for my Apple TV, SHIELD and Xbox.
- MisterSandman 3y ago
  The only choice you have is a monitor, if the screen size you were looking for isn’t too big.
- Loughla 3y ago
  Sceptre baby. Cheap. Good picture. No stupid smart features.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  Here you go: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?id=pcat17071&qp=televisiontype_facet%3DTelevision%20Type~Non%20Smart&st=insignia+tv https://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?id=pcat17071&qp=... Best Buy search even has a filter for "Non-Smart" -- this is a whole thing. Insignia is their house brand. These are their 5 sizes.
- okanat 3y ago
  You can buy a public information display and reject to set up the smart parts. It doesn't force any connectivity. Samsung has QH and QM models for that.
meerita 3y ago
I love my car. I love driving it every weekend. Cars are my passion, sorry.
- bryancoxwell 3y ago
  Well, that’s fine too. There are plenty of things I enjoy watching on my TV, but the thing still absolutely sucks in ways it doesn’t need to.
bborud 3y ago
I am a car enthusiast and I agree. Cars just keep getting worse. Manufacturers try to cram too much functionality into the car at too low a price point. Even if you buy a car that costs more than most people's house, it is going to be full of technology that at some point will fail. You can't fix it yourself. And when you get it fixed, it invariably ends up costing some significant fraction of what the car is worth. Even if it is just a faulty rail for the seat. To top it off, silly regulations also contribute to making cars more distracting and annoying. I used to laugh at American cars for making those incessant ding-ding sounds when the door is open. But now European cars ding, and ping, and whine constantly because regulations require them to constantly bombard you with warnings and interruptions. As if that's actually going to make the car safer. There is something extremely relaxing about driving a vintage car from the 1970s. Sure, you have to learn how to coax the engine into life on cold days. And you actually have to learn how to modulate brakes and throttle. And learn how to fix the 4-5 things that break every couple of years. But that's a lot less bother than having a computer on wheels where every single problem could end up being so expensive it is cheaper to scrap the car and get a new one. Here's what I'd like: an electrical car modeled on the philosophy of the Fiat 500 or the Citroen 2CV. A minimalist car that is so simple anyone can afford it, and anyone can learn how to repair anything on it. A car with as few parts as possible and where every spare part is easily available. (Fiat 500 parts used to be available where you bought your groceries. That's not going to happen today, but if you could buy every single part online at a reasonable price, that would do). A car that comes with drawings for every part, for every electrical circuit. A car that can be modified and evolved to fit new needs. A car that can grow a cottage industry of companies that make upgraded parts, rebuild cars etc. The Fiat 500 and 2CV were important cars. Even more important than the VW Beetle. Because they provided mobility to much deeper demographics. Nobody really makes important cars anymore. Important cars change how society works. And I think the only way we can make cars tolerable again is to figure out a way to come up with a minimalist, open source, vehicle architecture that can satisfy the safety requirements. I think we have the technology to do that today.
- osigurdson 3y ago
  I really like the idea of the open source car but I think it might be too soon. Once battery cost and energy density reaches the asymptotic phase, perhaps we will see CARV.
gcanyon 3y ago
> I dread it every time I need to pair my phone to a car So it's too difficult to wirelessly connect your phone to your car? Something you do one time and then it magically works forever? I'll grant, it should be easier, but this is like saying there's too much paperwork to buy the car in the first place: sure, it would be nice to walk in, pick a car, and drive it away (hello, volkswagen sign and drive disclaimers) but it's a one time thing.
- k8sToGo 3y ago
  Not only that. You can also connect your car via USBC and then it is paired and will also work wirelessly.
nurettin 3y ago
Over the years I've adjusted my life such that I can live without owning a car. My place is at a walking distance from the office, I live near a hospital, there are multiple supermarkets apothecaries, schools, diners and pubs that I can easily walk to and back without encountering any dangers. I've saved on so many costs and that it is almost criminal at this point. Not having any traffic stress is an added bonus. I actually feel a guilty pleasure walking past cars stuck in traffic.
- kibwen 3y ago
  Seconded. My partner and I got rid of our cars years ago. The other day I overheard someone at work talking about their monthly lease for their two cars, and the lease alone (to say nothing of gas, repairs, insurance) was more than our rent. Cars are a money bonfire, and it's worth moving to even the most expensive city if it lets you get away with not owning them.
skepticATX 3y ago
I drive a compact sedan in an area known for its love of trucks. Even 5 years ago, it felt fine. Now I am noticing more and more that driving the sedan feels flat out dangerous. There are more huge trucks and SUVs on the road. They impede my view of the road, and will also clearly demolish my car in an accident. I swore off large vehicles when I first started driving, but it is to the point where I’m having to consider getting one for my next vehicle just to feel safe on the road. Something needs to change.
- bdcravens 3y ago
  I can't imagine things changing unfortunately. The best thing you can do is get the smallest SUV you feel comfortable with. That said, I'm in Houston, where trucks rule (by your username I assume you're in Austin). I'm less worried about whether the vehicle is a truck or not, and more about driver behavior. Stupid, impatient driving is the real danger. Driving defensively is your best strategy. I used to be an impatient driver; these days I more or less stick to driving with adaptive cruise control and just chill and keep my eyes out for the idiots (which includes being disciplined about handling my phone while driving)
- helij 3y ago
  This is my biggest issue as well. I love small cars and would love to have them again but you just can't see anything out of them due to every car around you being three times the size and two times higher. Can't see anything.
lettergram 3y ago
Part of the issues are all the regulations. Personally I’d like to buy a cheap car, nothing auto, no wireless over-the-air updates, etc That said, governments (like the US) regulate cars. I can’t buy a car without seat belts, they’re required to have emission reducing stuff, they have to monitor (and fake lol) their emissions. Now the government trying to force manufacturers to have remote stop capabilities, etc. It’s illegal to have basic, cheap, cars. Not saying the regulations are bad one way or another tbh. I do enjoy the lack of smog, but I do wonder how much of “reducing emissions” and all these other regulations was more about building a moat for manufacturers.
- kibwen 3y ago
  Seatbelts and catalytic converters aren't the reasons cars are shit these days. Furthermore, the government isn't the reason that cars have replaced all their tactile controls with shite touchscreens, advertising telemetry, and subscription seatwarmers; private industry did that. Get rid of the government regulations? Great, you have completely failed to address the private industry incentives that brought us here, so now you have gone from a shitty unrepairable touchscreen car with seatbelts to a shitty unrepairable touchscreen car with no seatbelts, thus missing the point entirely.
  - lettergram 3y ago
    Except if there’s a market for cheap cars, other manufacturers/ startups can’t enter due to regulations. Deregulation enables higher competition, reducing costs to consumers & increases options. The reason we have shitty touch screens is because the government regulates competitors from entering.
    - XorNot 3y ago
      Ah yes, the crippling costs of checks notes "installing seatbelts". That's definitely the problem.
      - lettergram 3y ago
LVB 3y ago
To the subjective complaints I’ll add heavy window tinting, specifically on windshields and front side windows. I don’t know if it is actually more common or I’m imagining that, but I really don’t like it as a pedestrian or fellow driver. Hand signals and eye contact play a role in the cooperative dance at intersections, and if I can’t see you then things are more dangerous. I err on the side of safety. Probably every other day I’ll be waiting to cross a road (usually on foot, but it can apply in car, too) and some dark tinted car will be paused, probably yielding to me, maybe, but who knows? Maybe they’re waving me on, maybe they’re glancing at their phone. So I just wait and wait, and eventually they’ll go. I do wonder if these folks understand no one can see them.
xyzelement 3y ago
Alas a set of rehashed points that don’t resonate. // Hiding critical/often-used buttons behind touchscreens for the sake of minimalism (and cost?) I see this one written of often but I don’t see it on my 2 year old Toyota or cars I’ve borrowed/rented. I literally never had to access the touch screen for a critical function. Assuming this problem does exist on some cars, it seems easy to avoid as I’ve avoided it without trying. // On that note, poor physical layout in general (genuinely thinking that you can rate cars’ on a “hazard-light-button-placement index”) I’ve definitely experienced the moment in a rental/borrowed vehicle where it took me a bit of scanning around the dashboard to find the blinkers button. But this seems to just be variance across manufacturers. Eg my Toyota is consistent with Toyotas that came before it even if that’s different than some other manufacturer’s internal consistency. Is the author really struggling to find the blinkers on a vehicle he’s already familiar with? // Cars are getting too big; why are manufacturers pushing “crossovers” and SUVs on consumers and why are consumers buying them? I could write pages on this point alone. One thing here is that this is a single man who can’t relate to the needs and desires of other types of customers. I loved small cars as a single man and love my mid size SUV as a dad of two and on certain occasions wish it was bigger. Cars are getting bigger because through marvel of technology that has become economical to manufacture and operate. Eg my SUV gets nearly 40 mpg whereas a few decades ago that was economy car territory.
- ghusto 3y ago
  > Cars are getting bigger because through marvel of technology that has become economical to manufacture and operate Cars are getting bigger because they can be made bigger? Did anyone ask; "would you _like_ a bigger car?"? Putting aside everything else, I don't appreciate these massive things taking up so much space that often we have to sacrifice an entire extra parking space in a row so that we can park safely.
  - xyzelement 3y ago
    // Did anyone ask; "would you _like_ a bigger car?"? No, this is a real problem :( I wanted to buy a Corolla but the dealer tickle tortured me until I gave in and said “fine I’ll buy the Highlander” I still shudder to think about it every time I easily fit my wife, kids and the stuff into the car for a road trip. Kidding aside “do you want this?” is a question the market asks of consumer. Bigger cars still cost more to buy and run than compacts. People are willing to pay more because clearly enough of us want these bigger cars.
osigurdson 3y ago
>> manufacturers pushing “crossovers” and SUVs on consumers This might have something to do with the fact that this is what people want. It is still possible to buy a small car.
motohagiography 3y ago
Who buys the data cars collect today and where can one get a sample of it?
- rsaxvc 3y ago
  I'd guess insurance companies. Who used to get it from oil change places. https://abc7news.com/car-insurance-auto-mileage-odometer/13300491/ https://abc7news.com/car-insurance-auto-mileage-odometer/133...
gcanyon 3y ago
Arguing on the flip side of this is the fact that the new Prius is faster from 0-60 than the muscle car Burt Reynolds drove in Smokey and the Bandit, has an equivalent top end, and: - gets something like 3x the mileage - has air conditioning - has a ridiculously better sound system - has anti-lock brakes - has traction control - has far superior crumple zones/crash protection - has air bags - is far more reliable (even when the Trans Am was new) - has 2x(?) the expected lifespan - has adaptive cruise control - probably a lot of other things I'm not thinking of
- bdcravens 3y ago
  Most cars are faster than that Trans Am, even cars that aren't super efficient. It's common to think of "fast" cars from an era with a sense of nostalgia, but objectively, they're pedestrian by comparison with your random modern sedan. I think the point of the article isn't to compare with cars from 50 years ago, as many of the points you made here have been the case for years. Cars got so good, that manufacturers had to start pushing to get more revenue and continue to sell cars, even though modern cars can last 15-20 years pretty reliably.
  - gcanyon 3y ago
    Yep, I just picked the Prius because I posted stats about it <somewhere, maybe HN?> a few months back and got railed because "the Trans Am is cooler, man!" so I had the stats handy. So your point is that the author's proposed enshitification has been recent and brief? I'll happily concede that cars getting larger and heavier is a blight, but that's been going on (in the U.S.) for at least twenty years, while many of the other points the author makes (and which I am dubious of) are just in the past 5 years or so. As one example, I'll happily take the pain of pairing over bluetooth over having to plug in to USB any day, and let's not even start comparing that to e.g. the cassette-simulator connectors of thirty years ago. :-)
    - bdcravens 3y ago
      It has been a process, and I don't know that it's an obvious line. Bluetooth is great, but cars dating back to 2012 had it. Funny enough, most cars with CarPlay aren't yet wireless, requiring USB connections. If there's anything I'd point to as an obvious tipping point, I'd say it's switches and knobs that have been converted to touch controls. (for example, on my EV6, I have to use a touch control to toggle between radio controls and climate controls on the strip where you'd normally see them)
osigurdson 3y ago
I've never owned a car with CarPlay but that seems like it would be far better than auto manufacturer proprietary / snowflake UIs that I have on my cars.
clearcoat 3y ago
I haven't owned a car in the past decade, but the last car I did own was an Audi S5 and I thought it was pretty nearly perfect. Manual transmission, naturally aspirated V8, 4 wheel drive, but also all the electronic toys like lane sensors and physical buttons that were designed to give satisfying tactile feedback. Also just a beautiful car inside and out. I thought this was some kind of a high water mark for car design. You can't get a manual transmission anymore, they replaced the V8 with a V6 turbo, added weird lines all over the car that ruined the aesthetic. The new models are better on paper but feel twitchy and nervous to me. I haven't seen the latest ones, but I would not be surprised if they'd made everything touch-screen controlled as the trend in the industry has been. But anyway, c'est la vie, it was the end of an era and life moves on. We'd be better off with fewer cars, and with people thinking of them more like washing machines and focusing their attention elsewhere.
akho 3y ago
I do not understand this. Just don't buy things you don't like? I'm happy with my current printer, and they've only improved in my experience (auto-discovered network printers are an order of magnitude better than the wires-and-drivers bullshit, and that's pretty much the only change I see over the past 20 years or so). My LG TV is fine. Can't really speak about cars (the '12 Toyota I own is not really representative), but the new ones I see are driveable, and I don't see a trend (outside of Chinese brands and EVs that think they're an iPad, which are separate topics).
bob1029 3y ago
These days when I see the word "consumer" I go to a dark place very quickly. If you were to play a word association game with me and brought this one up, you'd probably find the resulting term would run aground of HN comment policies. I stopped buying things for fun a long time ago. The act of shopping for most things has become a stressful experience for me. I can feel the contempt for my existence in the design of many products.
xnx 3y ago
Agreeing with the article. Car software sucks, but hardware is great. Cars have more horsepower, are more fuel efficient, are more reliable, and are most importantly much safer ( to their passengers at least) than they've ever been. Take one minute to watch "1959 Chevrolet Bel Air vs. 2009 Chevrolet Malibu IIHS crash test" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C_r5UJrxcck https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C_r5UJrxcck
XorNot 3y ago
I don't know what's going on with people complaining that "oh my kitchen appliance has to connect to the internet". Like...you knew that when you bought it? You weren't forced to buy it. Dumb appliances exist, I have them. They're the cheaper models, and they work just fine.
- porkbeer 3y ago
  Except all newer car appliances phone home like it or not now. There is no choice,
- BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
  They do exist, for now, but many (and more every year) of the top appliances are going connected. And sometimes it starts by being optional until one day it isn't anymore. There's a reason why it's basically impossible to find a non-smart television today. The thing is that manufacturers don't just have online models and dumb models. They have models where extremely useful practical features are only included on the ones that also require being online, because that's how they get you. And the market drifts because people want those extra useful features. My dishwasher has a salt reservoir (exceptionally uncommon in the US) for water softening without GI-damaging rinse aids, a fully enclosed housing with leak sensors to trap and alert internal leaks, inline water heating instead of an oven heater in the bottom so plastics can go anywhere without melting, and so on. None of those features are internet-mediated. It just happens that those extra features I really enjoy are on a machine that _also_ wants to be on the internet, and they press the issue by making the internet the only way to see what step the machine is in its cycle because the better drying and so on are only available with hidden-top controls (honestly fuck top controls on dishwashers, seriously). Thankfully setting that up is optional for now, but one day it probably will not be.
mglz 3y ago
One car maker that doesn't seem too terrible so far with this is Renault. I drive a Zoe and looked at an electic Twingo and those cars are basic but in a nice way. You get physical buttons, a small screen you can run AndroidAuto/CarPlay on and no "smartass" features. There is a companion app that tells you the state of charge and that's it. I also did a GDPR request to Renault and either they are lying or they don't collect any telemetry. The drivetrain components are all simple parts and fixable in most repair shops. The battery and motor are another thing of course (needs a trained electrician), but that's probably inherent to EVs. Never had any software issues or updates preventing me from driving. Regarding the points in the article: * Critical cuttons are all there * Buttons are located where you'd expect and can be operated without looking * Lights are bright AF, sorry oncoming traffic :( * Basic tires and lots of standard Clio parts all over * App with a subscription you can ignore without major loss of functionality (remote heating) * All smartphones i plugged in via USB work * Paintwork: Everybody seems to get the white Zoe, good luck finding your car in a parking lot. Interior is black and white recycled plastic. Still, highly recommended and fun vehicles :)
jmyeet 3y ago
I agree with all this, particularly about the interface. Nobody wants to drive an iPad. But let's talk about why. There's a spot on the chart marked "The moment execs decide they need to increase revenue". The poster child for this attitude was the BMW seat warmer subscription [1] Another striking example was Macbooks. The 2011-2012 Macbook Air was an unbelievably good piece of hardware. It didn't make too many compromises for thinness (unlike the 12" Macbook that came later, thank you Johnny Ive for that). It had a useful amount of performance (again, unlike the 12" Macbook). And the kicker was the price. $1300 or so for a 13" MBA was unbelievably good value. This was previously the top end of the "ultrabook" market. Competitors couldn't produce hardware that competed with the Macbook Air on price. The problem for Apple was it was too cheap. Average Selling Price ("ASP") went down. Johnny Ive no longer had Steve Jobs to tell him "no" too, which didn't help. So we got the much-ridiculed and almost completely useless Touch Bar, coupled with one of the worst laptop keyboards ever designed (allegedly to cut 0.5mm from the thickness). Why? To raise the ASP. That was literally the only reason. So with cars and laptops and pretty much every other product you look at if you look deeply enough you see that the company's interests don't match the consumer's interests. The idea that "free markets" will create products consumer wants is a lie. Cars you could once repair a lot of things yourself. Now there are computer systems you need to interface with. Not all of these are bad of course like some improve fuel efficiency, for example. But they are locked down so you can't repair them even if you wanted to. This is an opportunity for even more revenue. If it wasn't for Google Maps you would absolutely have to pay for a subscription for maps. But the biggest problem with cars is how necessary they are, deliberately so. We've built our entire infrastructure to create car dependence and that makes life worse for everyone, whether you like driving or not. \ [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/7/23863258/bmw-cancel-heated-seat-subscription-microtransaction https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/7/23863258/bmw-cancel-heated...
jacknews 3y ago
"I know I sound like a luddite here" There are plenty of articles explaining luddism, that it wasn't against technology, but against the way the tech was being used to shift profits from workers to owners. IMHO we need a neo-Luddite, or neo-Amish movement; technology, and economics, markets, etc, should serve society, not the other way around.
asylteltine 3y ago
Cars do suck. Get a motorcycle! Cars can’t even compare in coolness, speed, fun, and value.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
esarbe 3y ago
I miss real knobs and sliders to control my car. These touch screen displays in cars. I want to have my eyes on the road.
intrasight 3y ago
I just bought a used Volvo 2016 XC70 - the last year it was made. I bought it to replace a 2004. I honestly think it's the finest form factor of car. This new one doesn't have much in the wave digital integration. It does have a back up camera - which I'll probably appreciate. But no touchscreen. The vehicle only has 40k miles. With luck and good maintenance, it could be the last car I ever own.
zdw 3y ago
> I miss my 2005 Toyota Corolla This begs the question, why did you get rid of that? I bought Toyota Matrix new in 2006, still driving it. From what I can tell, keeping it running is still more environmentally friendly than replacing it with a new car, even if that car is electric/hybrid. Has no smart anything. Hardly ever breaks. Probably good for another 150k miles, and at this rate it'll be another decade or two by then and all the current car garbage will be worked out or legislated around.
goodluckchuck 3y ago
> why are manufacturers pushing “crossovers” and SUVs on consumers and why are consumers buying them? They’re pushing crossovers because they can sell them for a higher margin. A taller vehicle looks like you’re getting more for your money. Of course, they don’t actually cost that much more to make. People buy them because that’s what’s on the lot and that’s what’s trendy… and the manufacturers create the trends to increase profits. The market is rational, but no one said it was very smart.
dml2135 3y ago
I’m a 30-something who lives in the big city so I haven’t had a car since the 2003 Volvo S60 I had in high school. I always said I’d probably get a car when I could get an electric one in middle age, and it looks like that day may be coming up in the next few years, but I’ll be damned if I’m ever going to buy something with a touch screen and mics that are tracking my every move. For anyone more in touch with the current car market than I am, is there even a single option for a full electric, or even a plug-in hybrid, without a touch screen and internet connection? I do not give a single fuck about infotainment systems, I’ll gladly plug my phone into an aux cable and call it a day.
- lawgimenez 3y ago
  My 2006 car stereo has been dead for several years, my current infotainment is a JBL portable speaker via Bluetooth.
- Dracophoenix 3y ago
  One recent car that is closest to fitting your description is the 2023 Audi E-tron.
VincentEvans 3y ago
Pfft. I like my car.
BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
> That weird glossy pastel paintwork that’s so popular all of a sudden I believe the technical term is "putty-lookin' ass whip". https://www.blackbirdspyplane.com/p/why-do-new-cars-look-like-this https://www.blackbirdspyplane.com/p/why-do-new-cars-look-lik...
neilk 3y ago
I’ve noticed many posters using Doctorow’s term “enshittification” here. In the interest of preserving a useful word for a few more years - I don’t think it fully applies. Enshittification is about how _platforms_ die, in the ultimate phase using monopoly power to extract rents from increasingly frustrated users. As bad as car touch screens are, is this rent-seeking? You could argue that subscriptions to “features” in your car are getting closer to Doctorow’s concept. But cars aren’t platforms. I am not locked into my VW purchase because all the other drivers are using VWs.
peanut-walrus 3y ago
Headlights are too bright in the US because US has ridiculous regulations when it comes to car headlights. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/blinded-light-american-headlight-safety-lags-years-countries-rcna82666 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/blinded-light-american-... Come drive a BMW with laser headlights in Europe, you will be illuminated(!), it's absolutely amazing what modern headlights can do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_XEQ8n-R5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_XEQ8n-R5M
TheCapeGreek 3y ago
>why are manufacturers pushing “crossovers” and SUVs on consumers and why are consumers buying them? I wonder this about crossovers because every time I look into one, I reach the conclusion that it's a bigger car with somehow not much extra space on the inside for how much bigger it is.
SergeAx 3y ago
I don't get this hassle with smart TVs. I just don't connect mine to the Internet and that's basically it. I mirror of my desktop PC display there and use it with wireless keyboard with integrated touchpad. Movies, games (with gamepad), YouTube.
Turing_Machine 3y ago
Not specifically mentioned, but a problem nonetheless: They all look like ass. Worse, they all look like the same ass. At first glance, it's hard to tell if a modern vehicle is a Porsche, a family econobox, or a work vehicle for the dude who picks up the dog feces in your yard. It would be different if this was because they were all pretty, but they're not. They're all hideously ugly.
amai 3y ago
Not all is lost, yet. Have a look at the Carice TC2: https://newatlas.com/automotive/carice-tc2-electric-car/ https://newatlas.com/automotive/carice-tc2-electric-car/
cannabis_sam 3y ago
Cars are indisputably garage, and a detriment to society. A pitiful stopgap, that has unfortunately been embraced by troglodytes.. jill the psychopath who believes in this salvation
amai 3y ago
A big part of features is also due to regulations like from the EU The advanced safety features which will become mandatory in all vehicles are: - intelligent speed assistance - alcohol interlock installation facilitation (i.e. a standardised interface facilitating aftermarket alcohol interlock devices being fitted in vehicles); - driver drowsiness and attention warning; - advanced driver distraction warning; - emergency stop signal; - reversing detection; - accident data recorder. Read more at: https://trans.info/the-european-parliament-agreed-on-new-safety-requirements-for-vehicles-here-are-the-details-127789 https://trans.info/the-european-parliament-agreed-on-new-saf...
mnming 3y ago
I get why people hate new things in car as they often don't improve driving experience. But smart tv? I think they genuinely improved my experience. I can pretty much watch any show anytime using my phone as the controller now, I don't see how it's possible with old TV?
- hiisukun 3y ago
  For a lot of people, they replaced a 10 or 20 year old TV with a "smart" one. Then just a few years later, it didn't work properly -- apps not updated, UI slow or broken, logins failed, etc. The TV was essentially fine, but the "smart" component had aged very poorly and made the whole thing less than satisfying. You're talking about the great and convenient parts, but for many generations of smart tv those only last a short while.
t0bia_s 3y ago
"Cars are getting too big; why are manufacturers pushing “crossovers” and SUVs on consumers and why are consumers buying them? I could write pages on this point alone." Because when you talk about safety, concerns about environment steps a side. Basic argument that greenwashing is another level of marketing for consumers.
londons_explore 3y ago
If you don't like modern cars, you can still buy an old one. You can even spend the money you saved on paying someone to properly refurbish it too.

191 points by petargyurov 3y ago

With regards to the OPs note about headlights being too bright: Has anyone adjusted their headlight angles? I noticed oncoming traffic has occasionally been flashing their brights at me, and I suspect they think I left my brights on and are trying to tell me. I'd love to drop my headlight angle a degree or two but don't know if that's a daunting task on a modern car.

ramraj07 3y ago
There was a bestof Reddit post about some automotive expert who worked on designing headlights who put a large passage about why lights look brighter. I felt that it was just a large gaslighting exercise in the end lol.
Abekkus 3y ago
This can also be due to dirty/aged headlight covers dissipating your headlight beams wider than intended. You can get kits to clean them, but it’s a bit tricky
ryukoposting 3y ago
If you consider my 24 year old car "modern," then my modern car is easy. There's a screw on top of each headlight that will tilt them up and down. I thought I noticed people flashing their brights at me, but then I realized it's actually them hitting a small bump, thereby raising the angle of their LED headlights momentarily. I drive a somewhat low-sitting sedan, so SUV LED headlights do that a lot.
kedikedi 3y ago
Two things; modern HID or laser or LED headlights should have the auto adjustment, so just jump to the second paragraph if you have one of these. But halogens can be adjusted usually from inside. They tend to have adjustment buttons to compensate for load (situation might be different for US cars, I’ve seen this with EU cars). This could be easier place to get started. The manual adjustment is also very easy :) there are some screws on your headlight assembly that you need to rotate. It is different for different cars, though. So I’d suggest referring to YouTube for your own car’s adjustments.
ed_balls 3y ago
older cars had a knob to adjust them. With LEDs you usually have to open the hood and use a wrench or they can auto adjust. Service should do it for it.
CogitoCogito 3y ago
I do feel there’s a regulatory failure with headlight angles in the US. Owners of maladjusted headlights should get fix it tickets and it should be strictly enforced. If a car without high beams blinds you, something is wrong.
kristjank 3y ago
It seems like most are just broken out of the box. I have never encountered a Tesla on the road that did not blind me, regardless of whether it was behind or in front of me. Some manufacturers just get away with shitty light projection.
apapapa 3y ago
> Has anyone adjusted their headlight angles? My Mazda has a scroll wheel to adjust their angle

deleted 3y ago

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didgeoridoo 3y ago

> Cars are getting too big; why are manufacturers pushing “crossovers” and SUVs on consumers and why are consumers buying them? I could write pages on this point alone. I’ve got 3 kids under 5. Car seats are absolutely enormous these days — it’s impossible to fit 3 across in even the largest “crossovers” (VW Atlas / KIA Telluride). I don’t want a big car (my dream car is something along the lines of the Audi A4 Allroad Saloon) but I also sometimes need to bring all my kids to the same place. Figure out a way to safely downsize car seats and I bet SUV purchases would drop 10% or more.

jhbadger 3y ago
Back in the day, there were station wagons for this exact use case, Larger than a sedan, but not the ridiculous tank-like SUVs of today.
- FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
  You can still buy a Subaru Outback. The infotainment is horrendous (just give me knobs!), but otherwise it's supposed to be a dependable station wagon, at a reasonable price, without too many frills. The AWD does hurt gas mileage, but has advantages in snow and dirt, and basically means that it's as capable as an SUV in all but ground clearance.
- kj4211cash 3y ago
  I bought a V60, one of the few remaining station wagons for sale in the US. And it is great for those with 1 or 2 kids, but, like the author implies, doesn't really work for those with 3 car seats. The only thing that has grown faster than the size of our cars is the size of our car seats.
buro9 3y ago
> Figure out a way to safely downsize car seats and I bet SUV purchases would drop 10% or more. Like an Estate / Station Wagon, a category of very capable cars that is being extinguished by the rise of SUV.
- 3y ago

hnthrowaway0328 3y ago

Maybe just grab a second hand Toyato that can pretty much run indefinitely as long as it is maintained. That's my plan if my wife decides to ditch me :p

beretguy 3y ago
Unexpected ending.
- hnthrowaway0328 3y ago
  Getting divorced is probably many men' fantasy :D
at0mic22 3y ago
I'm owning 2004 Toyota 120 as a hobby car. Fairy tales about old Toyota's being ultra reliable make me cry. On the bright side - they are fixable and manageable, but you cant avoid inevitable agening problems. Think I have invested as much as the buying price to repairs already
stefs 3y ago
Usually the problem is availability of spare parts.
- LightBug1 3y ago
  Currently running a 2005 Toyota. No problem at all regarding spare parts so far. I class it as one of my best, unwittingly made decisions to keep that car considering what I've seen of new cars over the last 10 years.

hasty_pudding 3y ago

I had a ford van I drove for decades, then tried to buy a new car and holy shit the amount of electronic gadgets on all cars nowadays is insane. you cant just buy a simple car anymore.

api 3y ago

Makes me really happy with the Nissan Leaf I bought a few years ago. It’s a Nissan Versa with an electric motor and battery in it. That means most of the parts on the car are standard and the body is cheap to repair. Lots of higher end EVs have stupid high repair costs from minor accidents due to this not being the case. It has a dumb infotainment system that I just plug a phone into and use as a screen. All the car’s critical functions are physical buttons that are ergonomically placed. Acceleration and handling is fine. In fact it out accelerates most gas cars. It has one pedal driving. The adaptive cruise control and auto steer work great. If you are stuck in traffic it just guides you along leaving a selectable distance between you and the car ahead. Steering assist has never tried to kill me. 220 miles of range is more than enough for a city car and I can charge it at home for stupid cheap. (It’s like $8 to fill from zero off home power, about 1/4 to 1/6 the cost of fueling an efficient gas car.) It’s small and electric and is called a “Leaf” so it does nothing for one’s penis. But I am secure in that department. Literally the only sucky thing about it is its CHaDEMo fast charge port which is chonky and a fading standard. Makes it not great for road trips but we have an old gas second car for that. Make a model of this with a bit more range and NACS and Nissan would have the ultimate boring competent EV that I want. I like the car enough for its boring competence that I’ve looked into CCS or NACS conversion. Apparently it’s possible and there are people working on kits but I’d have to find someone to do the install since I don’t have time for such a project. PSA: anyone who knows high voltage electronics well could design and crowdfund a NACS to CHaDEMo dongle on Crowdsupply no problem. It would be non trivial though because it would have to be powered. But there are enough cars with that older standard to make millions on such a device. I’d spend as much as $1000 or a bit more for one.

matthewowen 3y ago
That’s great, but you have a second car to cover the things your primary car can’t do! That might make sense if you do a daily commute that makes the convenience and running costs of the smaller car worth it. In general I see a lot of snark about people driving (eg) trucks around that people assume they can’t possibly need. But the reality is that people buy their vehicles based on the most challenging routine thing they need their car to do. I mostly only have four people in my minivan, but the extra space is great for road trips or when the grandparents visit. A lot of people have trucks because they want the towing capacity a few times a year, or they want the space to haul dirty stuff. IDK, I find the dismissiveness of “must be compensating for something” a little tiresome and honestly kind of incurious.

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gumby 3y ago

I see kitchen appliances are in the shit pit of the author’s graph and I can definitely testify to that. We just bought a new dishwasher and several of the advertised features are only accessible if I connect it to the net and use an app. Since I won’t connect it to the net, I could have saved money by buying a model that didn’t advertise those features.

pxmpxm 3y ago
Household appliance in general - our new GE washer and dryer has wifi for use case uknown, but to pay for the BOM they removed the interior drum lights.
- Loughla 3y ago
  The new washer/dryer all in one is absolutely confusing to me. So you can leave your clothes in one machine, and in two hours everything is washed and dried. But now I have to wait two hours for each load of laundry, versus 45 minutes and swap between machines. They have effectively more than doubled the time laundry takes. Who thought that was a good idea?
  - XorNot 3y ago
    Did you consider not buying a product which doesn't suit your use case? Did the market suddenly lose all single function devices?
    - Loughla 3y ago
      Why is it a trend to act as if you shouldn't have any opinions about something just because there are other things you can buy? I did not buy an all in one. I was just saying that they don't make sense to me. I'm allowed to have opinions. I'm a human.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]

mberning 3y ago

On the “who’s to blame” front you can put banks at the top of the list. They are the ones that make it easy for people to “buy” these modern monstrosities. If people did not have access to wild financing options the cars they could afford to buy would be much more modest.

acdha 3y ago
I think about that watching all of these insecure guys struggling to park huge pickup trucks in a city, or simply stay within the painted lane markings. These pristine vehicles are clearly unused for their ostensible purpose and it seems unlikely that everyone is so rich that buying an $80k luxury model isn’t a financial concern, so I’m hoping that interest rates returning to normal levels will reverse that trend.
- mberning 3y ago
  Big trucks are well into 6 figures now. And with the miracle of 100 month loans they have suddenly become accessible to people with a median income and a highly impoverished financial education.
  - acdha 3y ago
    Yeah, I have these eerie flashbacks to 2007, wondering how so many people were buying huge houses and reminding myself that it was all due to willingness to incur massive levels of debt. This time around it’s even worse since the assets depreciate rapidly and there’s much less resale value if the lifestyle accessory community moves on to something else: most of those extra expenses are things which subtract utility for the people who need to buy one.
maxerickson 3y ago
Aggressive financing makes the total cost go up.

SomeoneFromCA 3y ago

I like frame rate interpolation.

petargyurov 3y ago
OP here. Yes officer, this one right here. But in all seriousness, why? I would maybe find it tolerable if it was consistent, but most of my experience is that it ramps up to 48/60fps and back down to 24fps in a matter of seconds. It's jarring.
- Adverblessly 3y ago
  (not GP) If it is at 24fps it is already stuttery on my 60hz monitor (not a TV and not smart!), so anything is better than constant, obvious stuttering (which I understand most people learn to ignore, but I can't). In my experience it either works perfectly or it is just the 24fps stutter, so having perfection 70% of the time and stuttering 30% of the time is better than stuttering 100% of the time. For my family who have smart TVs I've noticed 0 issues with the interpolation itself and it is always a smooth 60fps (which IMO is better than smooth 24fps), though they also have some ML sharpening enabled which sometimes has strange artifacts. FWIW I also can't play video games at <60fps and have trouble enjoying any fast paced action scene shot at 24hz (with the exception of anime, where at least every frame is carefully constructed and chosen to work at the intended framerate and isn't just a blurry mess)
- SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
  Because I like 60 fps. On Samsungs I've seen it was consistent.

mlrtime 3y ago

"I am not car aficionado" This tells me that his level of understanding of the wide range of cars and features. Are their bad cars and bad UIs, yes. However, as someone who has been driving for 30 years, cars are better in every way now than they were before (From a driving, efficiency, reliability and safety perspective). The only thing that is arguably "worse" is self servicability. However this is a function of complexity that exists throughout all technology. Also, these features that everyone on HN complains about.. they are being added because the general population wants them. There are very few people who would buy a car without any screens, ui or infotainment. You wouldn't save any money because a lot of this tech is required for saftey and would be bespoke thus costing more.

jspash 3y ago
What gets me about newer cars is that they seem to be stolen at the same rate as they have always been (conjecture. i could be entirely mistaken). What with keyless entry, immobilizers and standard car alarms, I would expect them to be virtually theft-proof nowadays.
- astura 3y ago
  Motor vehicle thefts look down to me https://www.statista.com/statistics/191216/reported-motor-vehicle-theft-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/191216/reported-motor-ve...
cowpig 3y ago
> cars are better in every way now than they were before The author listed a bunch of ways that they are not. Perhaps it would be more interesting to address those directly
hotpotamus 3y ago
> There are very few people who would buy a car without any screens, ui or infotainment. I really don't get this - just put a space in the dash where I can stick a phone that charges it and connects to the car audio. I have an old GM car with Carplay that all still works pretty well, but it's basically just a second screen for my phone and as such I barely use it.

bsenftner 3y ago

I saw this coming, and purchased a 2016 Subaru Forester as a durable car without any "smart features" and I am expecting to drive that until 2030, or until this "smart car" nonsense is over. Likewise, no smart devices at all; hell I write the software for smart devices and there is no f'ing way I'm letting anything non-local only be "smart" in my home. Our collective civilization is far to immature to not exploit smart devices against their user's benefit.

underdeserver 3y ago

> Cars are getting too big; why are manufacturers pushing “crossovers” and SUVs on consumers and why are consumers buying them? I could write pages on this point alone. I think this is partially a race to the bottom (or to the top, as it were). When you're driving your low-riding sedan in traffic, if the car in front of you is an SUV, you can't see beyond it. If most cars become SUVs, you can't see two cars ahead almost ever. That's a crappy feeling - I for one feel less safe, less able to predict if an emergency stop is going to happen - so I'd be unconsciously nudged into buying a taller car myself.

CogitoCogito 3y ago
I can’t really understand this sentiment. If you keep enough distance you’ll be able to stop in time regardless of what’s down the road. I personally feel safer in smaller cars.
- underdeserver 3y ago
  Well, I don't know how it is where you drive, but here you have two options: you either stay just close enough that you can stop in an emergency, but no closer, and certainly not a "comfortable" distance; or you can get cut off every couple of seconds.
  - CogitoCogito 3y ago
    My experiences are driving mainly in California and New York. I definitely have not had the problems you’ve described and I wouldn’t consider drivers in either location to be very good in general. I’ve driven larger cars as well and they’ve never made me feel safer. Edit: The more I think about it, I’m actually kind of confused by your point. Even assuming what you say is true, how does driving a larger car avoid the problem of people cutting you off anyway? Is your “solution” to drive a larger car and tailgate or something?
    - gdilla 3y ago
      Larger vehicles suck to me, because you feel blinder than necessary. It's a larger car to park, it feels less agile to do a quick maneuver like dodging something on the road or squeezing by an idiot drifting into your lane. I like zipping past idiots and fitting through an opening if i get one.

rmbyrro 3y ago

I'm very grateful for the freedom,comfort, speed and safety that modern cars provide me with.

stefs 3y ago
The post argues that modern cars really are better than ever, the problem is enshittification from focusing on the wrong aspects, making the experience worse than it could be. Your modern car could be a lot better than it is, but it probably would hurt sales.
- rmbyrro 3y ago
  I'll stick to being happy with it and I don't mind the downvotes, I'm very very grateful to the cars I've had and they're enough for me to be happy. I don't want to waste my time wishing how even better it could be. It's going to continue getting better and the rate of improvement is good for me. Perhaps other people are a lot more demanding?..

gambiting 3y ago

>>Actually, scratch that – have you used a “smart” TV in the past 5 years? – it’s awful. I have, but I guess the author hasn't. I've got a 2020 LG CX and it's smooth, works fast, has all the apps I need, including for streaming local media, and it has zero ads. I sort of lost interest after that point, if you can't make a reasonable point right at the start why even continue?

ramraj07 3y ago
LGs and Samsungs have become the premium brands with associated pricing and is not the ones that are made for the majority. Not to mention it’s not universal that they make good smart tvs either.
- rcarmo 3y ago
  LG is well on the path to enshittification with ads, although Samsung is already way below water level there. Both do image fingerprinting and phone home your viewing habits (my LG is neutered, and I would still buy LG for the overall quality, but I don’t think I will ever again plug a TV onto my network directly).
  - hparadiz 3y ago
    Sony is the real premium brand among them. Their OLED series runs almost stock Android TV.
akho 3y ago
The article was written by a person who bought a 3D TV when they were available.
Hamuko 3y ago
My LG C1 definitely has ads, which show up as toast notifications when you open the TV. I think I once got an ad for Google Stadia for example. That being said, it seems to very rarely show them. I think I can count the number of times I see one in a year with my fingers. As for the smart TV side, I have no idea if there's ads there since I basically only ever use my Apple TV. https://www.reddit.com/r/LGOLED/comments/xzxhjr/how_do_i_deactivate_these_advertisement_popups/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LGOLED/comments/xzxhjr/how_do_i_dea...

Waterluvian 3y ago

Cars and driving has only become safer and more reliable while the cost hasn’t exactly gone flying up. To me it’s actually quite an incredible success story of regulation dancing in harmony with mass production and capitalism. I’ve also not experienced what the author is complaining about. I’m sure it exists but it’s not unavoidable, at the very least.

kredd 3y ago
Car death/injury rate is in 20 year high again but only in the US. I’m not 100% sure if the culture or the cars themselves are the main contributors to the statistic, but it’s not really getting better anymore.
- Waterluvian 3y ago
  If I had to guess I’d say it’s because of smartphones.
  - kredd 3y ago
    Smartphones are a thing outside of US as well. Doesn’t track, given in EU/Japan and etc. traffic accidents haven’t increased in similar rates.

sriacha 3y ago

>Have you tried shopping for a TV in the past 5 years? Actually, scratch that – have you used a “smart” TV in the past 5 years? – it’s awful. Sure, displays are getting better, but manufacturers insist on cramming bloatware and spyware, embellished in the worst UI imaginable, running on a processor designed for a smartwatch. Anyone have recommendations for a "dumb" TV in 2024?

kredd 3y ago
Honestly, any smart TV connected to Apple TV is fine. You can skip the wifi enablement on your TV and will never think of the bloatware in your life. Been with that setup for 5+ years, have absolutely zero complaints about my “smart TV” for that reason.
- rcarmo 3y ago
  Yup. My LG is stuck at the EULA “we reserve the right to watch what you watch” screen but works fine as a dumb monitor for my Apple TV, SHIELD and Xbox.
MisterSandman 3y ago
The only choice you have is a monitor, if the screen size you were looking for isn’t too big.
Loughla 3y ago
Sceptre baby. Cheap. Good picture. No stupid smart features.
crazygringo 3y ago
Here you go: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?id=pcat17071&qp=televisiontype_facet%3DTelevision%20Type~Non%20Smart&st=insignia+tv https://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?id=pcat17071&qp=... Best Buy search even has a filter for "Non-Smart" -- this is a whole thing. Insignia is their house brand. These are their 5 sizes.
okanat 3y ago
You can buy a public information display and reject to set up the smart parts. It doesn't force any connectivity. Samsung has QH and QM models for that.

meerita 3y ago

I love my car. I love driving it every weekend. Cars are my passion, sorry.

bryancoxwell 3y ago
Well, that’s fine too. There are plenty of things I enjoy watching on my TV, but the thing still absolutely sucks in ways it doesn’t need to.

bborud 3y ago

I am a car enthusiast and I agree. Cars just keep getting worse. Manufacturers try to cram too much functionality into the car at too low a price point. Even if you buy a car that costs more than most people's house, it is going to be full of technology that at some point will fail. You can't fix it yourself. And when you get it fixed, it invariably ends up costing some significant fraction of what the car is worth. Even if it is just a faulty rail for the seat. To top it off, silly regulations also contribute to making cars more distracting and annoying. I used to laugh at American cars for making those incessant ding-ding sounds when the door is open. But now European cars ding, and ping, and whine constantly because regulations require them to constantly bombard you with warnings and interruptions. As if that's actually going to make the car safer. There is something extremely relaxing about driving a vintage car from the 1970s. Sure, you have to learn how to coax the engine into life on cold days. And you actually have to learn how to modulate brakes and throttle. And learn how to fix the 4-5 things that break every couple of years. But that's a lot less bother than having a computer on wheels where every single problem could end up being so expensive it is cheaper to scrap the car and get a new one. Here's what I'd like: an electrical car modeled on the philosophy of the Fiat 500 or the Citroen 2CV. A minimalist car that is so simple anyone can afford it, and anyone can learn how to repair anything on it. A car with as few parts as possible and where every spare part is easily available. (Fiat 500 parts used to be available where you bought your groceries. That's not going to happen today, but if you could buy every single part online at a reasonable price, that would do). A car that comes with drawings for every part, for every electrical circuit. A car that can be modified and evolved to fit new needs. A car that can grow a cottage industry of companies that make upgraded parts, rebuild cars etc. The Fiat 500 and 2CV were important cars. Even more important than the VW Beetle. Because they provided mobility to much deeper demographics. Nobody really makes important cars anymore. Important cars change how society works. And I think the only way we can make cars tolerable again is to figure out a way to come up with a minimalist, open source, vehicle architecture that can satisfy the safety requirements. I think we have the technology to do that today.

osigurdson 3y ago
I really like the idea of the open source car but I think it might be too soon. Once battery cost and energy density reaches the asymptotic phase, perhaps we will see CARV.

gcanyon 3y ago

> I dread it every time I need to pair my phone to a car So it's too difficult to wirelessly connect your phone to your car? Something you do one time and then it magically works forever? I'll grant, it should be easier, but this is like saying there's too much paperwork to buy the car in the first place: sure, it would be nice to walk in, pick a car, and drive it away (hello, volkswagen sign and drive disclaimers) but it's a one time thing.

k8sToGo 3y ago
Not only that. You can also connect your car via USBC and then it is paired and will also work wirelessly.

nurettin 3y ago

Over the years I've adjusted my life such that I can live without owning a car. My place is at a walking distance from the office, I live near a hospital, there are multiple supermarkets apothecaries, schools, diners and pubs that I can easily walk to and back without encountering any dangers. I've saved on so many costs and that it is almost criminal at this point. Not having any traffic stress is an added bonus. I actually feel a guilty pleasure walking past cars stuck in traffic.

kibwen 3y ago
Seconded. My partner and I got rid of our cars years ago. The other day I overheard someone at work talking about their monthly lease for their two cars, and the lease alone (to say nothing of gas, repairs, insurance) was more than our rent. Cars are a money bonfire, and it's worth moving to even the most expensive city if it lets you get away with not owning them.

skepticATX 3y ago

I drive a compact sedan in an area known for its love of trucks. Even 5 years ago, it felt fine. Now I am noticing more and more that driving the sedan feels flat out dangerous. There are more huge trucks and SUVs on the road. They impede my view of the road, and will also clearly demolish my car in an accident. I swore off large vehicles when I first started driving, but it is to the point where I’m having to consider getting one for my next vehicle just to feel safe on the road. Something needs to change.

bdcravens 3y ago
I can't imagine things changing unfortunately. The best thing you can do is get the smallest SUV you feel comfortable with. That said, I'm in Houston, where trucks rule (by your username I assume you're in Austin). I'm less worried about whether the vehicle is a truck or not, and more about driver behavior. Stupid, impatient driving is the real danger. Driving defensively is your best strategy. I used to be an impatient driver; these days I more or less stick to driving with adaptive cruise control and just chill and keep my eyes out for the idiots (which includes being disciplined about handling my phone while driving)
helij 3y ago
This is my biggest issue as well. I love small cars and would love to have them again but you just can't see anything out of them due to every car around you being three times the size and two times higher. Can't see anything.

lettergram 3y ago

Part of the issues are all the regulations. Personally I’d like to buy a cheap car, nothing auto, no wireless over-the-air updates, etc That said, governments (like the US) regulate cars. I can’t buy a car without seat belts, they’re required to have emission reducing stuff, they have to monitor (and fake lol) their emissions. Now the government trying to force manufacturers to have remote stop capabilities, etc. It’s illegal to have basic, cheap, cars. Not saying the regulations are bad one way or another tbh. I do enjoy the lack of smog, but I do wonder how much of “reducing emissions” and all these other regulations was more about building a moat for manufacturers.

kibwen 3y ago
Seatbelts and catalytic converters aren't the reasons cars are shit these days. Furthermore, the government isn't the reason that cars have replaced all their tactile controls with shite touchscreens, advertising telemetry, and subscription seatwarmers; private industry did that. Get rid of the government regulations? Great, you have completely failed to address the private industry incentives that brought us here, so now you have gone from a shitty unrepairable touchscreen car with seatbelts to a shitty unrepairable touchscreen car with no seatbelts, thus missing the point entirely.
- lettergram 3y ago
  Except if there’s a market for cheap cars, other manufacturers/ startups can’t enter due to regulations. Deregulation enables higher competition, reducing costs to consumers & increases options. The reason we have shitty touch screens is because the government regulates competitors from entering.
  - XorNot 3y ago
    Ah yes, the crippling costs of checks notes "installing seatbelts". That's definitely the problem.
    - lettergram 3y ago

LVB 3y ago

To the subjective complaints I’ll add heavy window tinting, specifically on windshields and front side windows. I don’t know if it is actually more common or I’m imagining that, but I really don’t like it as a pedestrian or fellow driver. Hand signals and eye contact play a role in the cooperative dance at intersections, and if I can’t see you then things are more dangerous. I err on the side of safety. Probably every other day I’ll be waiting to cross a road (usually on foot, but it can apply in car, too) and some dark tinted car will be paused, probably yielding to me, maybe, but who knows? Maybe they’re waving me on, maybe they’re glancing at their phone. So I just wait and wait, and eventually they’ll go. I do wonder if these folks understand no one can see them.

xyzelement 3y ago

Alas a set of rehashed points that don’t resonate. // Hiding critical/often-used buttons behind touchscreens for the sake of minimalism (and cost?) I see this one written of often but I don’t see it on my 2 year old Toyota or cars I’ve borrowed/rented. I literally never had to access the touch screen for a critical function. Assuming this problem does exist on some cars, it seems easy to avoid as I’ve avoided it without trying. // On that note, poor physical layout in general (genuinely thinking that you can rate cars’ on a “hazard-light-button-placement index”) I’ve definitely experienced the moment in a rental/borrowed vehicle where it took me a bit of scanning around the dashboard to find the blinkers button. But this seems to just be variance across manufacturers. Eg my Toyota is consistent with Toyotas that came before it even if that’s different than some other manufacturer’s internal consistency. Is the author really struggling to find the blinkers on a vehicle he’s already familiar with? // Cars are getting too big; why are manufacturers pushing “crossovers” and SUVs on consumers and why are consumers buying them? I could write pages on this point alone. One thing here is that this is a single man who can’t relate to the needs and desires of other types of customers. I loved small cars as a single man and love my mid size SUV as a dad of two and on certain occasions wish it was bigger. Cars are getting bigger because through marvel of technology that has become economical to manufacture and operate. Eg my SUV gets nearly 40 mpg whereas a few decades ago that was economy car territory.

ghusto 3y ago
> Cars are getting bigger because through marvel of technology that has become economical to manufacture and operate Cars are getting bigger because they can be made bigger? Did anyone ask; "would you _like_ a bigger car?"? Putting aside everything else, I don't appreciate these massive things taking up so much space that often we have to sacrifice an entire extra parking space in a row so that we can park safely.
- xyzelement 3y ago
  // Did anyone ask; "would you _like_ a bigger car?"? No, this is a real problem :( I wanted to buy a Corolla but the dealer tickle tortured me until I gave in and said “fine I’ll buy the Highlander” I still shudder to think about it every time I easily fit my wife, kids and the stuff into the car for a road trip. Kidding aside “do you want this?” is a question the market asks of consumer. Bigger cars still cost more to buy and run than compacts. People are willing to pay more because clearly enough of us want these bigger cars.

osigurdson 3y ago

>> manufacturers pushing “crossovers” and SUVs on consumers This might have something to do with the fact that this is what people want. It is still possible to buy a small car.

motohagiography 3y ago

Who buys the data cars collect today and where can one get a sample of it?

rsaxvc 3y ago
I'd guess insurance companies. Who used to get it from oil change places. https://abc7news.com/car-insurance-auto-mileage-odometer/13300491/ https://abc7news.com/car-insurance-auto-mileage-odometer/133...

gcanyon 3y ago

Arguing on the flip side of this is the fact that the new Prius is faster from 0-60 than the muscle car Burt Reynolds drove in Smokey and the Bandit, has an equivalent top end, and: - gets something like 3x the mileage - has air conditioning - has a ridiculously better sound system - has anti-lock brakes - has traction control - has far superior crumple zones/crash protection - has air bags - is far more reliable (even when the Trans Am was new) - has 2x(?) the expected lifespan - has adaptive cruise control - probably a lot of other things I'm not thinking of

bdcravens 3y ago
Most cars are faster than that Trans Am, even cars that aren't super efficient. It's common to think of "fast" cars from an era with a sense of nostalgia, but objectively, they're pedestrian by comparison with your random modern sedan. I think the point of the article isn't to compare with cars from 50 years ago, as many of the points you made here have been the case for years. Cars got so good, that manufacturers had to start pushing to get more revenue and continue to sell cars, even though modern cars can last 15-20 years pretty reliably.
- gcanyon 3y ago
  Yep, I just picked the Prius because I posted stats about it <somewhere, maybe HN?> a few months back and got railed because "the Trans Am is cooler, man!" so I had the stats handy. So your point is that the author's proposed enshitification has been recent and brief? I'll happily concede that cars getting larger and heavier is a blight, but that's been going on (in the U.S.) for at least twenty years, while many of the other points the author makes (and which I am dubious of) are just in the past 5 years or so. As one example, I'll happily take the pain of pairing over bluetooth over having to plug in to USB any day, and let's not even start comparing that to e.g. the cassette-simulator connectors of thirty years ago. :-)
  - bdcravens 3y ago
    It has been a process, and I don't know that it's an obvious line. Bluetooth is great, but cars dating back to 2012 had it. Funny enough, most cars with CarPlay aren't yet wireless, requiring USB connections. If there's anything I'd point to as an obvious tipping point, I'd say it's switches and knobs that have been converted to touch controls. (for example, on my EV6, I have to use a touch control to toggle between radio controls and climate controls on the strip where you'd normally see them)

osigurdson 3y ago

I've never owned a car with CarPlay but that seems like it would be far better than auto manufacturer proprietary / snowflake UIs that I have on my cars.

clearcoat 3y ago

I haven't owned a car in the past decade, but the last car I did own was an Audi S5 and I thought it was pretty nearly perfect. Manual transmission, naturally aspirated V8, 4 wheel drive, but also all the electronic toys like lane sensors and physical buttons that were designed to give satisfying tactile feedback. Also just a beautiful car inside and out. I thought this was some kind of a high water mark for car design. You can't get a manual transmission anymore, they replaced the V8 with a V6 turbo, added weird lines all over the car that ruined the aesthetic. The new models are better on paper but feel twitchy and nervous to me. I haven't seen the latest ones, but I would not be surprised if they'd made everything touch-screen controlled as the trend in the industry has been. But anyway, c'est la vie, it was the end of an era and life moves on. We'd be better off with fewer cars, and with people thinking of them more like washing machines and focusing their attention elsewhere.

akho 3y ago

I do not understand this. Just don't buy things you don't like? I'm happy with my current printer, and they've only improved in my experience (auto-discovered network printers are an order of magnitude better than the wires-and-drivers bullshit, and that's pretty much the only change I see over the past 20 years or so). My LG TV is fine. Can't really speak about cars (the '12 Toyota I own is not really representative), but the new ones I see are driveable, and I don't see a trend (outside of Chinese brands and EVs that think they're an iPad, which are separate topics).

bob1029 3y ago

These days when I see the word "consumer" I go to a dark place very quickly. If you were to play a word association game with me and brought this one up, you'd probably find the resulting term would run aground of HN comment policies. I stopped buying things for fun a long time ago. The act of shopping for most things has become a stressful experience for me. I can feel the contempt for my existence in the design of many products.

xnx 3y ago

Agreeing with the article. Car software sucks, but hardware is great. Cars have more horsepower, are more fuel efficient, are more reliable, and are most importantly much safer ( to their passengers at least) than they've ever been. Take one minute to watch "1959 Chevrolet Bel Air vs. 2009 Chevrolet Malibu IIHS crash test" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C_r5UJrxcck https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C_r5UJrxcck

XorNot 3y ago

I don't know what's going on with people complaining that "oh my kitchen appliance has to connect to the internet". Like...you knew that when you bought it? You weren't forced to buy it. Dumb appliances exist, I have them. They're the cheaper models, and they work just fine.

porkbeer 3y ago
Except all newer car appliances phone home like it or not now. There is no choice,
BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
They do exist, for now, but many (and more every year) of the top appliances are going connected. And sometimes it starts by being optional until one day it isn't anymore. There's a reason why it's basically impossible to find a non-smart television today. The thing is that manufacturers don't just have online models and dumb models. They have models where extremely useful practical features are only included on the ones that also require being online, because that's how they get you. And the market drifts because people want those extra useful features. My dishwasher has a salt reservoir (exceptionally uncommon in the US) for water softening without GI-damaging rinse aids, a fully enclosed housing with leak sensors to trap and alert internal leaks, inline water heating instead of an oven heater in the bottom so plastics can go anywhere without melting, and so on. None of those features are internet-mediated. It just happens that those extra features I really enjoy are on a machine that _also_ wants to be on the internet, and they press the issue by making the internet the only way to see what step the machine is in its cycle because the better drying and so on are only available with hidden-top controls (honestly fuck top controls on dishwashers, seriously). Thankfully setting that up is optional for now, but one day it probably will not be.

mglz 3y ago

One car maker that doesn't seem too terrible so far with this is Renault. I drive a Zoe and looked at an electic Twingo and those cars are basic but in a nice way. You get physical buttons, a small screen you can run AndroidAuto/CarPlay on and no "smartass" features. There is a companion app that tells you the state of charge and that's it. I also did a GDPR request to Renault and either they are lying or they don't collect any telemetry. The drivetrain components are all simple parts and fixable in most repair shops. The battery and motor are another thing of course (needs a trained electrician), but that's probably inherent to EVs. Never had any software issues or updates preventing me from driving. Regarding the points in the article: * Critical cuttons are all there * Buttons are located where you'd expect and can be operated without looking * Lights are bright AF, sorry oncoming traffic :( * Basic tires and lots of standard Clio parts all over * App with a subscription you can ignore without major loss of functionality (remote heating) * All smartphones i plugged in via USB work * Paintwork: Everybody seems to get the white Zoe, good luck finding your car in a parking lot. Interior is black and white recycled plastic. Still, highly recommended and fun vehicles :)

jmyeet 3y ago

I agree with all this, particularly about the interface. Nobody wants to drive an iPad. But let's talk about why. There's a spot on the chart marked "The moment execs decide they need to increase revenue". The poster child for this attitude was the BMW seat warmer subscription [1] Another striking example was Macbooks. The 2011-2012 Macbook Air was an unbelievably good piece of hardware. It didn't make too many compromises for thinness (unlike the 12" Macbook that came later, thank you Johnny Ive for that). It had a useful amount of performance (again, unlike the 12" Macbook). And the kicker was the price. $1300 or so for a 13" MBA was unbelievably good value. This was previously the top end of the "ultrabook" market. Competitors couldn't produce hardware that competed with the Macbook Air on price. The problem for Apple was it was too cheap. Average Selling Price ("ASP") went down. Johnny Ive no longer had Steve Jobs to tell him "no" too, which didn't help. So we got the much-ridiculed and almost completely useless Touch Bar, coupled with one of the worst laptop keyboards ever designed (allegedly to cut 0.5mm from the thickness). Why? To raise the ASP. That was literally the only reason. So with cars and laptops and pretty much every other product you look at if you look deeply enough you see that the company's interests don't match the consumer's interests. The idea that "free markets" will create products consumer wants is a lie. Cars you could once repair a lot of things yourself. Now there are computer systems you need to interface with. Not all of these are bad of course like some improve fuel efficiency, for example. But they are locked down so you can't repair them even if you wanted to. This is an opportunity for even more revenue. If it wasn't for Google Maps you would absolutely have to pay for a subscription for maps. But the biggest problem with cars is how necessary they are, deliberately so. We've built our entire infrastructure to create car dependence and that makes life worse for everyone, whether you like driving or not. \ [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/7/23863258/bmw-cancel-heated-seat-subscription-microtransaction https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/7/23863258/bmw-cancel-heated...

jacknews 3y ago

"I know I sound like a luddite here" There are plenty of articles explaining luddism, that it wasn't against technology, but against the way the tech was being used to shift profits from workers to owners. IMHO we need a neo-Luddite, or neo-Amish movement; technology, and economics, markets, etc, should serve society, not the other way around.

asylteltine 3y ago

Cars do suck. Get a motorcycle! Cars can’t even compare in coolness, speed, fun, and value.

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esarbe 3y ago

I miss real knobs and sliders to control my car. These touch screen displays in cars. I want to have my eyes on the road.

intrasight 3y ago

I just bought a used Volvo 2016 XC70 - the last year it was made. I bought it to replace a 2004. I honestly think it's the finest form factor of car. This new one doesn't have much in the wave digital integration. It does have a back up camera - which I'll probably appreciate. But no touchscreen. The vehicle only has 40k miles. With luck and good maintenance, it could be the last car I ever own.

zdw 3y ago

> I miss my 2005 Toyota Corolla This begs the question, why did you get rid of that? I bought Toyota Matrix new in 2006, still driving it. From what I can tell, keeping it running is still more environmentally friendly than replacing it with a new car, even if that car is electric/hybrid. Has no smart anything. Hardly ever breaks. Probably good for another 150k miles, and at this rate it'll be another decade or two by then and all the current car garbage will be worked out or legislated around.

goodluckchuck 3y ago

> why are manufacturers pushing “crossovers” and SUVs on consumers and why are consumers buying them? They’re pushing crossovers because they can sell them for a higher margin. A taller vehicle looks like you’re getting more for your money. Of course, they don’t actually cost that much more to make. People buy them because that’s what’s on the lot and that’s what’s trendy… and the manufacturers create the trends to increase profits. The market is rational, but no one said it was very smart.

dml2135 3y ago

I’m a 30-something who lives in the big city so I haven’t had a car since the 2003 Volvo S60 I had in high school. I always said I’d probably get a car when I could get an electric one in middle age, and it looks like that day may be coming up in the next few years, but I’ll be damned if I’m ever going to buy something with a touch screen and mics that are tracking my every move. For anyone more in touch with the current car market than I am, is there even a single option for a full electric, or even a plug-in hybrid, without a touch screen and internet connection? I do not give a single fuck about infotainment systems, I’ll gladly plug my phone into an aux cable and call it a day.

lawgimenez 3y ago
My 2006 car stereo has been dead for several years, my current infotainment is a JBL portable speaker via Bluetooth.
Dracophoenix 3y ago
One recent car that is closest to fitting your description is the 2023 Audi E-tron.

VincentEvans 3y ago

Pfft. I like my car.

BugsJustFindMe 3y ago

> That weird glossy pastel paintwork that’s so popular all of a sudden I believe the technical term is "putty-lookin' ass whip". https://www.blackbirdspyplane.com/p/why-do-new-cars-look-like-this https://www.blackbirdspyplane.com/p/why-do-new-cars-look-lik...

neilk 3y ago

I’ve noticed many posters using Doctorow’s term “enshittification” here. In the interest of preserving a useful word for a few more years - I don’t think it fully applies. Enshittification is about how _platforms_ die, in the ultimate phase using monopoly power to extract rents from increasingly frustrated users. As bad as car touch screens are, is this rent-seeking? You could argue that subscriptions to “features” in your car are getting closer to Doctorow’s concept. But cars aren’t platforms. I am not locked into my VW purchase because all the other drivers are using VWs.

peanut-walrus 3y ago

Headlights are too bright in the US because US has ridiculous regulations when it comes to car headlights. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/blinded-light-american-headlight-safety-lags-years-countries-rcna82666 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/blinded-light-american-... Come drive a BMW with laser headlights in Europe, you will be illuminated(!), it's absolutely amazing what modern headlights can do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_XEQ8n-R5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_XEQ8n-R5M

TheCapeGreek 3y ago

>why are manufacturers pushing “crossovers” and SUVs on consumers and why are consumers buying them? I wonder this about crossovers because every time I look into one, I reach the conclusion that it's a bigger car with somehow not much extra space on the inside for how much bigger it is.

SergeAx 3y ago

I don't get this hassle with smart TVs. I just don't connect mine to the Internet and that's basically it. I mirror of my desktop PC display there and use it with wireless keyboard with integrated touchpad. Movies, games (with gamepad), YouTube.

Turing_Machine 3y ago

Not specifically mentioned, but a problem nonetheless: They all look like ass. Worse, they all look like the same ass. At first glance, it's hard to tell if a modern vehicle is a Porsche, a family econobox, or a work vehicle for the dude who picks up the dog feces in your yard. It would be different if this was because they were all pretty, but they're not. They're all hideously ugly.

amai 3y ago

Not all is lost, yet. Have a look at the Carice TC2: https://newatlas.com/automotive/carice-tc2-electric-car/ https://newatlas.com/automotive/carice-tc2-electric-car/

cannabis_sam 3y ago

Cars are indisputably garage, and a detriment to society. A pitiful stopgap, that has unfortunately been embraced by troglodytes.. jill the psychopath who believes in this salvation

amai 3y ago

A big part of features is also due to regulations like from the EU The advanced safety features which will become mandatory in all vehicles are: - intelligent speed assistance - alcohol interlock installation facilitation (i.e. a standardised interface facilitating aftermarket alcohol interlock devices being fitted in vehicles); - driver drowsiness and attention warning; - advanced driver distraction warning; - emergency stop signal; - reversing detection; - accident data recorder. Read more at: https://trans.info/the-european-parliament-agreed-on-new-safety-requirements-for-vehicles-here-are-the-details-127789 https://trans.info/the-european-parliament-agreed-on-new-saf...

mnming 3y ago

I get why people hate new things in car as they often don't improve driving experience. But smart tv? I think they genuinely improved my experience. I can pretty much watch any show anytime using my phone as the controller now, I don't see how it's possible with old TV?

hiisukun 3y ago
For a lot of people, they replaced a 10 or 20 year old TV with a "smart" one. Then just a few years later, it didn't work properly -- apps not updated, UI slow or broken, logins failed, etc. The TV was essentially fine, but the "smart" component had aged very poorly and made the whole thing less than satisfying. You're talking about the great and convenient parts, but for many generations of smart tv those only last a short while.

t0bia_s 3y ago

"Cars are getting too big; why are manufacturers pushing “crossovers” and SUVs on consumers and why are consumers buying them? I could write pages on this point alone." Because when you talk about safety, concerns about environment steps a side. Basic argument that greenwashing is another level of marketing for consumers.

londons_explore 3y ago

If you don't like modern cars, you can still buy an old one. You can even spend the money you saved on paying someone to properly refurbish it too.