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It's not better for anyone except delusional people. It was created for ADM terminals whose keyboards lacked the keys vim users use to navigate in modal editing

It's not better for anyone except delusional people. It was created for ADM terminals whose keyboards lacked the keys vim users use to navigate in modal editing, and there's no reason for it anymore.

newlisp 3y ago
Vim's modal editing allows for wider key space and better ergonomics. Both are good to have for programming IMO.
necrotic_comp 3y ago
That's awfully harsh. People's brains work in different ways, and for some people separating movement from editing makes a lot of sense.
cmrdporcupine 3y ago
It is what it is, I wouldn't deny it to anybody. But I really wish the subsection of the geek population that runs around with the Vim religion denigrating everything else would just STFU. I've been Unixing for 30 years. If I was going to join that cult, I would have done it a long time ago. Modal is not superior, it's just something else.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  I don't think your denigrating people is going to help anything.
  - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
    I'm not the denigrator, you're probably mistaking me for the other commenter, "shrimp_emoji"
drbaba 3y ago
> terminals whose keyboards lacked the keys vim users use to navigate in modal editing, and there's no reason for it anymore. Vim keybindings really are more comfortable if you struggle with RSI. I’ve had such issues despite having used Caps Lock as Ctrl for years, and despite pressing it with my ring finger instead of pinkie. In my case, I have big hands and often have to work from small laptop keyboards for my job, which likely makes it worse. The 3 times I’ve tried to go all-in on Emacs keybindings, I’ve after 1-2 months developed pain in my left forearm that then took months to heal. I developed some similar pains when I tried to use Sublime Text keybindings as well, but it was worse with Emacs. I blame this on excessive chording. Except these excursions into other keybinding sets, I’ve used mainly Vim keybindings for nearly two decades now. I never had arm pains using Vim or Evil. All this is to say: “There is no reason for it anymore” is too dismissive. The original reason Bill Joy wrote Vi the way he did was those constraints, but it has benefits today for other reasons.
allarm 3y ago
Every single time in emacs/vim posts there’s a guy who knows better than me what is better for me, without even knowing me and my reasoning. There is a lot of reasons people use modal editing, but we didn’t realize that all of them don’t exist anymore because shrimp_emoji thinks so. Oh boy.
- ParetoOptimal 3y ago
  There are a lot of things people can potentially teach others, but typically it's a good idea to show some curiosity and learn about the use-cases of others before making sweeping statements :)

It's not better for anyone except delusional people. It was created for ADM terminals whose keyboards lacked the keys vim users use to navigate in modal editing, and there's no reason for it anymore.

newlisp 3y ago

Vim's modal editing allows for wider key space and better ergonomics. Both are good to have for programming IMO.

necrotic_comp 3y ago

That's awfully harsh. People's brains work in different ways, and for some people separating movement from editing makes a lot of sense.

cmrdporcupine 3y ago

It is what it is, I wouldn't deny it to anybody. But I really wish the subsection of the geek population that runs around with the Vim religion denigrating everything else would just STFU. I've been Unixing for 30 years. If I was going to join that cult, I would have done it a long time ago. Modal is not superior, it's just something else.

robertlagrant 3y ago
I don't think your denigrating people is going to help anything.
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  I'm not the denigrator, you're probably mistaking me for the other commenter, "shrimp_emoji"

drbaba 3y ago

> terminals whose keyboards lacked the keys vim users use to navigate in modal editing, and there's no reason for it anymore. Vim keybindings really are more comfortable if you struggle with RSI. I’ve had such issues despite having used Caps Lock as Ctrl for years, and despite pressing it with my ring finger instead of pinkie. In my case, I have big hands and often have to work from small laptop keyboards for my job, which likely makes it worse. The 3 times I’ve tried to go all-in on Emacs keybindings, I’ve after 1-2 months developed pain in my left forearm that then took months to heal. I developed some similar pains when I tried to use Sublime Text keybindings as well, but it was worse with Emacs. I blame this on excessive chording. Except these excursions into other keybinding sets, I’ve used mainly Vim keybindings for nearly two decades now. I never had arm pains using Vim or Evil. All this is to say: “There is no reason for it anymore” is too dismissive. The original reason Bill Joy wrote Vi the way he did was those constraints, but it has benefits today for other reasons.

allarm 3y ago

Every single time in emacs/vim posts there’s a guy who knows better than me what is better for me, without even knowing me and my reasoning. There is a lot of reasons people use modal editing, but we didn’t realize that all of them don’t exist anymore because shrimp_emoji thinks so. Oh boy.

ParetoOptimal 3y ago
There are a lot of things people can potentially teach others, but typically it's a good idea to show some curiosity and learn about the use-cases of others before making sweeping statements :)