13 ms·
I Found David Lynch's Lost 'Dune II' Script
- ekianjo 3y ago... And locked the article behind a paywall
- ur-whale 3y agohttps://archive.is/9pz3M https://archive.is/9pz3M
- austinjp 3y agohttps://archive.is/9pz3M https://archive.is/9pz3M
- Jenk 3y agohttps://archive.ph/9pz3M https://archive.ph/9pz3M
- looping8 3y agoCan some explain how it is possible that an official archive would have this document and never look at it? The missing script for a never-made movie should attract attention, but nobody cared until this one writer found it? Why?
- gopher_space 3y agoOfficial archives can mean a few boxes in the basement, and submissions aren't catalogued as thoroughly as you might be expecting. Do you know which authors have archives at your nearest state school? Is that info even on the internet?
- krisoft 3y ago> Official archives can mean a few boxes in the basement This is very apt description. In this case it sounds like they have 91 boxes (78 Document boxes, 13 cartons of research files) Not sure if they are in the basement but the record locations says: Aisle 9A -- Shelves 1-4 > and submissions aren't catalogued as thoroughly as you might be expecting That is also true in this case. By the sounds of it Frank Herbert boxed up all his papers and donated them to the library. Later on family donated more as they found more. There is a very high level inventory, such as “Container 7: Maps” Maps of what? Doesn’t say. How many? Doesn’t say. One has to go there physically to find out. There is also a “Flat file drawer tbd” containing a “Dune Atlas”. Which to be honest sounds very intriquing. And a “Small document box A-204” with “personal items” which is decidedly less so. Source: http://archives.fullerton.edu/repositories/5/resources/56 http://archives.fullerton.edu/repositories/5/resources/56
- acheron 3y ago> Official archives can mean a few boxes in the basement “Beware of the leopard”
- fuzz_junket 3y agoI'm doing a master's in library science and archives, currently working a couple of internships processing archives. The answer is archives are big, complex, and time-consuming. One collection I work with is 131 cubic feet of records including papers, floppy disks, and photographic film. It's unprocessed, meaning the archivists haven't had a chance to arrange and describe it, which isn't a wonder considering the size of the collection — and that's only one of many in the backlog. Even if a collection is processed, because of the volume of information in a given collection archivists typically don't typically describe every document. In a library you can catalogue every book, but that's not possible in an archive. And in an artist's papers, how can you know which document will be important to someone? How can you know what's artistically significant? The time it would take to research the background of every document (Was this script ever made? Is it interesting to anyone?) would be prohibitive. Add into the mix that archives are chronically underfunded and archivists underpaid. This is coming from the unpaid intern who was asked to process a $33,000 acquisition last year. Fun times.
- INTPenis 3y agoSpeaking of epic scifi, when are we getting a Hyperion movie? I'm just re-reading it now and it would make for an amazing movie with todays special effects. Or like a single season mini series.
- Krasnol 3y agoI hope we never get a movie, to be honest. I love the Hyperion books, but it would hurt me even more to see the depth butchered for a mediocre Hollywood audience in a cinema than it did with Dune. A mini-series would be nice, but I feel that an animated series would be even better.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- INTPenis 3y agoI often agree about the animated bit, for example I'd much rather see the Alastair Reynolds novels as an animated series. I just don't think any movie can do them justice. But personally I thought the new Dune movie was really good, I can't wait for the 2nd part.
- livueta 3y agoMacheneries of Empire is another one I feel would only work as anime, not just animated. A lot of things in that, like the description of Kujen's (literal) shadow as like a canvas of fluttering moths' wings (and a lot of other fashion-related descriptions), remind me a lot of Gankutsuou's visual effects.
- echelon_musk 3y agoI really enjoyed reading Hyperion. I bought it in a second hand book store before a flight back from NZ to Europe. However, the crude writing of this particular passage stayed with me: "Sissipriss Harris had been one of my first conquests as a satyr – and one of my most enthusiastic – a beautiful girl, long blond hair too soft to be real, a fresh-picked-peach complexion too virginal to dream of touching, a beauty too perfect to believe: precisely the sort that even the most timid male dreams of violating"
- pram 3y ago"Scytale's friends are laughing and wildly rolling marbles under their hands as they watch Scytale sing through eighteen mouths in eighteen heads strung together with flesh that is like a flabby hose. The heads are singing all over the pink room. One man opens his mouth and a swarm of tiny people stream out singing accompaniment to Scytale. Another man releases a floating dog which explodes in mid-air causing everyone to get small and lost in the fibers of the beautiful carpet." I thought the Giedi Prime scenes were pretty strange, but Lynch was apparently in a "hold my beer" mood.
- AllegedAlec 3y agoGlad this film wasn't made. It would've been less accurate to Herbert's vision than Starship Troopers was to Heinlein's.
- gylterud 3y agoIs a film only worth making if it stays accurate to the author’s vision? The books exist and can still be read after films are made. The movie must stand on its own merits. If the filmmakers have their own vision that might make a better film. Of course, there is no guarantee the film will be good, no matter what…
- fragmede 3y agoIt should at least be related. World War Z bears little resemblance to the book, to the point that basically the only thing they have in common use the name and the fact that they both have zombies in them.
- nickelcitymario 3y agoWorld Word Z the book wouldn’t make sense as a movie. It could work as a mini-series though, with each chapter treated as its own episode.
- eszed 3y agoNot to derail the thread, but I thought WWZ was such a missed (both artistic and commercial) opportunity, by not following the structure of the book. They could have made a whole anthology of stand-alone films, each detailing a different element of the world / apocalypse. There was more than enough material for an entire franchise, they just needed to aim a little lower with each film. The movie we got was _blah_, but does have one of the most visceral moments I've seen in any zombie flick: the bit where Brad Pitt stands on the edge of the roof, counting down the seconds until he'll know whether he's been infected or not.
- transfire 3y agoI hope one day, with the help of AI, someone will make this movie.
- AtlasBarfed 3y agoI can't wait for an AI cobbled from the crushing grey mediocrity of mass media films to produce distinctive artistically novel products. Will that be before or after AI can drive me through Taco Bell?
- transfire 3y agoYeah I keep expecting AI drive-thru any day now.
- scyzoryk_xyz 3y agoI work with screenwriters on early stage film development in production capacity and this is sort of like looking at someone’s MVP prototype git commits or meeting notes. You can glean a lot about what was going on at some point in time, but I wouldn’t project ideas that this was anything more than random quick notes. Directors, screenwriters, producers generate a huge output in the process.
- keiferski 3y agoA few decades from now, I think Lynch's Dune will be looked upon more favorably than the recent films. They simply have more character and vastly more interesting set design, whereas the recent ones are visually indistinguishable from most other sci-fi films made at the same time.
- lproven 3y agoAgreed. One of the few uses of ever-improving "AI" bot generation of characters, faces, blending images, etc. I can imagine is the ability for fans to remix films and TV. For example... * to edit together the original BBC TV Hitch hikers' Guide to the Galaxy with the better SFX of the otherwise poor film. * to create extra episodes or installments of beloved serials where the text exists but the actors are dead * Or, in this instance, to mix Lynch's visuals and characters with Villeneuve's less scenery-chewing version which sticks closer to the text. One could even imagine editing Villeneuve's Arrival to stick closer to the text of Ted Chiang's sublime "the Story of your Life", where the way the aliens write is pivotal to the story but the screenwriters didn't understand.
- adastra22 3y agoIt’s already being used to upscale Star Trek and Babylon 5. In 10-15 years, hopefully we can just input this script as a prompt, and get a full film in the style of David Lynch.
- low_tech_love 3y agoIf we keep on praising uninteresting, soulless movies like Villeneuve’s Dune while shooting down more artistic (but weirder) views such as Lynch’s one, then I think we might end up with the opposite: human crews making films based GPT’s scripts. The same thing happened with Society of the Snow: a technically beautiful movie with nothing to say other than being more “faithful” and using native actors. All that is appreciated but Alive was a flawed but much more exciting telling of the story.
- 3y ago
- effed3 3y agoProbably the -value- of F.Herbert Dune is high enough to survive a film transposition, givin an higher-than-mean Director (in theory), and in pratice all those read and love Herbert work will see his message and meanings behind a movie.. Lynch Dune is not bad seen today but the director is not 'fit' for SciFi IMHO, Villeneuve, decades after, seems mode inside the genre and capable to manage the matter and the modern SFX, it's Dune seems more close to the essential minimal trascendent adn vastness spirit of FH Dune. All IMHO.
- decafninja 3y agoAs a huge Dune fan, I’ve honestly tried giving Lynch’s Dune movie a fair shot multiple times. But everything just totally falls apart for me with the weirding modules.
- chuckadams 3y agoThe milkable cat duct-taped to a rat didn’t help either, though that was mercifully just one scene.
- Andrew_nenakhov 3y agoI, for one, prefer Lynch's Dune to Villeneuve's. I was very hyped for the latter and left the theater disappointed. You see, Villeneuve's Dune has a great cast, insanely great cinematography and sets, but it is also very sterile, devoid of life and has very unimaginative directing. Some scenes were direct adaptations from the book, like Gom Jabbar scene, Shadout Mapes scene, and were very confusing for people who didn't read the book. (why does that sand woman shout when Jessica says a certain word?). Paul's awakening is very bland, too. His mentats were useless. De Vries was just a sad freak who stood nearby and then died. Hawat was in three scenes where he had any lines, and in two of which he counted expenses, and offered his resignation in the third. If I didn't read the book I'd assume he's some kind of accountant. On the other hand, Lynch's Dune also has a great cast, great music, great sets, and it also has the all-important dream-like mystic feel to it, which is completely absent in the new adaptation. Sure, it has a lot of script problems, which mostly boil down to far too short runtime, as moviegoers in 1984 weren't ready for 2 part movies, so it had to cram the second part of the book in the final 20 minutes or so. Had it been two movies, it would have been much better. One big improvement in Villeneuve's adaptation is Momoa's Idaho, who basically saved the movie for me. Lynch's Idaho was very bland and died far too easily and non-consequentally. Other than his scenes, if I ever want to see some scene from Dune on Youtube, it'll be Lynch's (except "the Guild doesn't take your orders", if you know what I mean).
- ekianjo 3y agoSame here, it felt very dull and bland. I'm not sure why people get excited over the big latest movies like that, just because it's a new version of Dune. In 10 years nobody will remember it.
- jareklupinski 3y agoas someone who struggled to get through the book as a kid and never saw Lynch's version, I really liked the new Dune as a spectacle, and I filled in some of the more confusing parts from plot summaries after i came home, but ultimately it did place Dune back on my "to read" list :) (and Lynch's Dune on my "to watch" after i read the book)
- Apocryphon 3y ago
- einpoklum 3y agoOne of the reasons Lynch's Dune is so (more) memorable than Villeneuve's version is the audio, due to Brian Eno generally, and Toto who scored the soundtrack. It was inspiring, majestic, spiritual. The newer film does not reach such heights, and depths, IMHO. PS - I watched the extended cut with the tacky animation at the beginning, which was probably quite a good thing to have as a prelude if you hadn't read the book before. I had read the book before though. Learn more about the scoring of the soundtrack and hear some tunes at: https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/the-unlikely-story-of-totos-soundtrack-for-david-lynchs-infamous-dune-adaptation/ https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/the-unlikely-story-of-totos-s...
- einpoklum 3y agoI would say the best - or at least most imaginative and presumptuous - version of Dune is the one we didn't actually get: The version by Alejandro Jodorowsky, in the 1970s. It was a grandiose project involving many artists and themes which went on to inspire, or feature in, films and comics and sculpture for years later (including, among other things, Alien). There was a documentary about it several years back, here's the trailer for that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0cJNR8HEw0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0cJNR8HEw0
- rainbowzootsuit 3y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-mLVVJkH7I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-mLVVJkH7I Audio interview with Frank Herbert on the origins of Dune (1965)
- mmaunder 3y agoThe first line saying that Lynch’s Dune is a “misbegotten botch job” is based on the authors definition of success in art which is box office returns. And yet here we are discussing a film that turns 40 this year. And there the Wired author is selling ads on the back of David’s work and disabling my back button to grab mailing list signups. To gain an understanding of David’s approach to art, which is deeply inspired by Robert Henri’s book “The Art Spirit”, it’s worth watching The Art Life (2016). David is a believer in the artist alone in the room with an infinite supply of coffee and cigarettes, creating new ideas with pure creative freedom and the removal of societal pressures. There’s no doubt that his art and all art and creativity is derived from experience and experiencing the art of others. But the point is that for original art to flourish, there comes a time for the artist to seclude themselves and create without market pressures, the influence of popular culture and daily distractions. Us devs can learn much from him. So I think Lynch’s Dune is spectacular in its originality and bold creativity. And I think looking to box office returns as a measure of success misses the long term value of that kind of originality.
- broscillator 3y ago> is based on the authors definition of success in art which is box office returns. It's probably also based on Lynch's comments about Dune being pretty much his only regret in life.
- deng 3y agoExactly this. Lynch would be the first to say that his "Dune" is a failure. The movie is pretty much incomprehensible if you don't know the book. Famously, the first cut was 5 hours long, and he never had a plan how to get the runtime down. I mean, just watch the prologue with the woman talking for 90+ seconds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqvSJp-6qT4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqvSJp-6qT4 and tell me with a straight face that someone not knowing the book would be able to understand this. It's pure desperation. Don't get me wrong: it's beautifully shot, especially with the in&out-fading of the face, but it does not work to convey the setting of the story. It's simply too much information. Quite famously, and also in this case, he refuses to even discuss it because this is a place in time he would rather not go to. It must have been traumatic for him. But this failure was a blessing in disguise, as he did this little movie "Blue Velvet" afterwards, and the rest is history. Lynch would not be where he is today without this failure. After "Elephant Man", he was destined to be the next Lucas, but instead, he pretty much defined a new genre.
- Duanemclemore 3y agoLynch makes the mistake of liking Paul too much. He didn't think about his overall arc through the series. For all Villeneuve's many faults as a director and the way he handled the source material he's left it open that Chalamet's Paul could be both a "hero" and a monster on his way to redemption far easier than McLachlan's. The idea for example that the "Nuremberg-esque" scenes to come are a callback to the one from Dune 1 is exciting.
- ncr100 3y agoI would honestly like to see McLaughlin go full monster. He's a good actor and he doesn't have to be nice, so it would be wonderful. Actors are amazing, in my view coming from my uptight software engineer persona.
- Duanemclemore 3y agoI think he has the range. No one ever asked him for it. Maybe at that age he wasn't studied enough to, but the time a sequel came out, maybe. I do think the fault there is with Lynch not McLaughlin.
- fullshark 3y agoI believe in Twin Peaks: The Return, he plays an evil doppelganger of Agent Cooper. Haven't seen it though.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y agoYes. He also plays at least two other roles in that, a common Lynch trope.
- asciimov 3y agoI’m surprised that the Sci-fi Channels Dune Miniseries from 2000 hasn’t been mentioned yet. While not a pretty as Villeneuve’s Dune, it does have its own visual charm and is able to tell more story in its 4.5 hour run time. Plus 3 years later they did a Children of Dune miniseries that also covers Messiah’s story. For me Villeneuve was Part one story drags along taking forever to get to the point. Then there is this 2.5 year wait to get a part 2 release; during which I read the first 3 FH Books, waited 18 months and read the other 3 books.
- Hasu 3y agoAgreed. I love the weirdness of the Lynch film, but it's not a great Dune adaptation. The SciFi miniseries has the lowest production quality (desert scenes shot in real deserts are a lot better looking than desert scenes shot on a very low budget soundstage), but it's the most faithful adaptation, covers the first three books, and still has its own weird Dune charm. Villeneuve's Dune is sterile and devoid of charm or personality. I love Dune, and I was bored to tears watching that movie.
- bitzun 3y agoThe parts I found the most insufferable about Villeneuve's Dune are two pieces of dialogue towards the end: At one point, Chalamet says "You good?" like an American teenager, and Jessica has some other similar exclamation I can't remember that feels completely out of place, like "This is crazy!". No idea how those made it into the movie.
- golemotron 3y agoTIL David Lynch films with scripts.
- simonebrunozzi 3y agohttps://archive.is/hHmgY https://archive.is/hHmgY
- shrubble 3y agoDune: The Alternative Edition Redux at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faHQA_0d9Mo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faHQA_0d9Mo is a fan's "fanedit" of Lynch's original Dune movie, about 2h50m I think. I found it enjoyable to watch. "Dune Remix is as close to Lynch's vision as possible. Its authors even followed the original script and all the scenes are in this version now reassembled in the correct chronological order and originally intended. It is true that not all the scenes could be found because probably Dino de Laurentis didn't even let them film, but much of what is in the cut, according to Spicediver, was enough to restore the film practically in its entirety according to what was written and planned by Lynch decades ago, following the script from scene to scene as faithfully as possible."
- Animats 3y agoDune, the story of a society who botched the AI alignment problem. Mostly because a dictator with too much power delegated it to a badly aligned AI. So, what lesson do they take from this? That having a god-emperor with too much power is a bad idea? Nah. That computers are a bad idea. Then they have to breed biological computers to do the job of a flight management system. Then, despite having the ability to do that kind of bioengineering, they can't even crank out "spice" synthetically.
- atleastoptimal 3y agoPost AGI sci Fi is more interesting if singularity is deliberately nerfed. Imagine 300 pages of "We optimizing. Dyson spheres. Hive mind"
- Tao3300 3y agoI don't remember any of that in Dune. Is that extended universe or something?
- ottaborra 3y agoRead the Butlerian Crusade
- MrVandemar 3y agoReading Dune was the first time I read the word 'jihad'. I read that that Villeneuve's film omits the word entirely. On that basis I will not watch the film. The word is such a strong one, it has resonance and implies history and culture and power and fury and an unstoppable force. It was a huge part of the original culture of the book, and for me was a window into religion and cultures outside of those I'd previously known. Apparently using the word 'jihad' is verboten for some reason, and it's not even obscurity.