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How to get coworkers to stop giving me ChatGPT-generated suggestions?
- bdcravens 3y agoLove the irony that it's asked on a StackExchange site.
- __MatrixMan__ 3y agoBecause reading StackExchange is how ChatGPT got good?
- trickstra 3y agoOne day ChatGPT will start answering "Don't use ChatGPT" because it will be trained on these discussions.
- bdcravens 3y agoNo, my point is that StackExchange (primarily StackOverflow) has been a source for many to grab work product without actually doing the work. ChatGPT is only taking that to the next, more automated, level.
- throwaway888abc 3y agoYou can create counterpoint arguments with ChatGPT... Sht in / Sht out. Everybody happy. Years back during big outsourcing project, this never ending conversation (between human teams) were big part of it.
- bongodongobob 3y agoI'd say tell them to ask GPT why it won't work. It'll say something like "You're right, I've made a mistake...". This should illustrate that it can be helpful, but it's just aiming to please whether or not the solution is workable or sane.
- Paul-Craft 3y agoIndeed, ChatGPT will frequently backpedal if you even slightly hint that its answer may have been wrong: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2305.13160.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/2305.13160.pdf I have found that you can reduce that behavior if you prompt it correctly, though.
- stordoff 3y agoJust asking "Does that work?" can demonstrate this. Slightly contrived example (I've trimmed the ChatGPT output down - it gives some warnings about code readability and that it only has knowledge up to 2022 that might be useful if the code worked at all): > User: how can I pass two parameters to a hugo partial as positional parameters (without using a dict)? > ChatGPT: If you want to pass parameters as positional arguments without using a dictionary, you might need to work around this limitation. One approach is to use a custom data structure, such as a slice or an array, to emulate positional parameters. Here's an example: {{/* In your main template */}} {{ partial "yourPartial.html" "value1" "value2" }} {{/* In yourPartial.html */}} {{ $param1 := index . 0 }} {{ $param2 := index . 1 }} [ChatGPT has also suggested in other runs that the values can be accessed with {{ .Param1 }} and {{ .Param2 }}] > User: Does that work? > ChatGPT: I apologize for the confusion in my previous response. I made an error in the example provided. Hugo's templating system doesn't support passing parameters as positional arguments directly, and my previous example was incorrect.
- otabdeveloper4 3y agoHave you tried asking it if it works when it gives a correct response? :)
- krainboltgreene 3y agoIs this really your suggestion to someone dealing with a coworker making your work harder to do by gumming up the works with a bad tool? This is cult like behavior.
- alpaca128 3y ago
- verve_rat 3y agoYou can type shit here. It's ok, we all know what you meant anyway.
- AnimalMuppet 3y agoOr you can ask ChatGPT for the most insulting comment it can come up with. When they get upset, tell them ChatGPT generated it. Look surprised, like you just had the idea, and say that maybe ChatGPT-generated content in emails isn't actually a good idea.
- ryanklee 3y agoWhat matters is whether the suggestions are actually good, not where they came from.
- rideontime 3y agoThe issue here is that the artists are confident that the suggestions (which they don't themselves understand) are good because they came from ChatGPT.
- giancarlostoro 3y agoI would argue that if you cannot answer questions on something generated before suggesting it or handing it off, you absolutely should not be pushing for it. Do the research necessary to feel fully confident on a hand-off.
- Kim_Bruning 3y agoExactly! GPT can be a fantastic time saver, but it is unable to check itself. You absolutely need to do the research to check it and correct its output. It's like a power tool: potentially very powerful, but it'll make a huge mess if you let it run out of control.
- giancarlostoro 3y agoHell, if something doesn't make sense, ask it again for clarity. It does a reasonable job at that, but again, before you hand off a solution, make darn sure you understand it, because chances are high, whoever pitches a solution that sounds usable, is going to break ground and work it.
- morkalork 3y agoHonestly had the same experience with a junior developer yolo-ing some changes into a PR before even running it themselves to check that it works. It's just a waste of everyone's time and a lack of respect. That's what needs to be conveyed to the artist colleagues.
- ipaddr 3y agoStop asking and start using chatgpt directly
- omeid2 3y agoTell your coworkers to ask ChatGPT "why does this solution doesn't work? and what is wrong with it?" You will be surprised how often ChatGPT will correctly explain why or how the answer it has given you is utter nonsense. It is fascinating in a way.
- euniceee3 3y agoThis. Pay for GPT4 and just explain the situation that is happening and it will be happy to provide a counter to its own point.
- giancarlostoro 3y agoYou should be doing this regardless of where the suggestion comes from, just to make sure you all don't miss something obvious, this is literally what happens in troubleshooting / brainstorming sessions.
- krainboltgreene 3y agoThis is the third response I've seen like this. Is this some sort of training material? "What to say when people doubt the machine" pamphlet? "Just squeeze the stone harder" is bad advice for getting blood.
- omeid2 3y agoIf I understand correctly, you're not happy with the way ChatGPT can realise it's own mistake? or that it makes the mistake? I am not really sure, what is the problem exactly?
- Animats 3y agoWhat do the artists think of artwork generated with Stable Diffusion? If you use the ICantBelieveItsNotPhotography model, you can generate some great art.[1] Does your company still need that many artists? [1] https://civitai.com/models/28059/icbinp-i-cant-believe-its-not-photography https://civitai.com/models/28059/icbinp-i-cant-believe-its-n...
- sergiotapia 3y agoOfftopic: "Comments have been moved to chat; please do not continue the discussion here." What a shitty place that website has become, dang!
- furyofantares 3y agodang has nothing to do with it.
- bigmattystyles 3y agoI think they meant dang, the interjection or exclamation, not all mighty dang! Praise be.
- sergiotapia 3y agoCorrect! (dang please don't ban me!)
- esafak 3y agoI think it's a fundamentally flawed premise of the site: that answers ought to be self-contained and all else is noise. No debate, no commentary. That's why they reject opinion-based questions. But not all things in life are cut and dried. I get it, though; subjectivity makes it difficult to promote quality answers.
- andrewflnr 3y agoYeah, they pretty much explicitly disclaim those questions that don't have cut and dried answers. But I think that means they never should have dipped into topics like "workplace", which has vanishingly few cut and dried topics.
- aaronchall 3y agoOn these sites the idea is that answers belong in the top-level answer posts where they can be voted up and down for the purpose of sorting the competing ideas and forms of responses to the primary question post. Criticisms should remain in the comments until they are integrated and addressed in the answers, at which point they are obsolete and can be removed. Therefore chats belong elsewhere, and are helpfully moved into chat rooms, which you can click through to and read if you're interested.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y agoSeveral months ago, I received a report that I believed to be generated by an LLM, rather than original work. So I asked my coworkers on Slack about their expert opinion: do you believe this is original work or not? The only answer I received was from a guy who copy-pasted it into an "LLM detector" and uncritically copy-pasted the output for me. This response got several thumbs-up from management and mentors. Geez, if I'd wanted that kind of crap answer I could've obtained it myself, without asking "experts" for their human opinions.
- QuiDortDine 3y agoThis is the problem with getting people to understand that ChatGPT can't actually think: a lot of people also don't actually think as a matter of habit.
- bawolff 3y agoI mean, tbh that sounds more like the person was passively aggressively telling you that you should have been able to figure it out yourself.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y agoI feel fairly confident at detecting LLM output in the course of my work, but that doesn't mean that I should unilaterally make decisions based on my own opinion without asking other experts who are right there beside me at work. Is there something wrong with asking for a second opinion, when management has provided to us Slack channels to do exactly this?
- nescioquid 3y agoThis is also what it looks like when someone is avoiding being pinned down / responsible for a judgment or decision. What was requested was personal "expert" judgment, what was received was the unendorsed output of a tool which no one can hold accountable.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
- dyno12345 3y agoHow do you know you yourself aren't an AI, being trained on synthetic data?
- esafak 3y agoBecause I have no reason to. How do you know the earth isn't orbited by a flying teapot?
- gumballindie 3y agoThe ai types are yesterday’s flat earthers. Wouldnt be surprised if they believed there was a flying teapot orbiting … erm hovering … earth.
- dyno12345 3y agohow can you tell if I'm being facetious or not?
- esafak 3y agoI can't, but the priors and stakes on being facetious vs being an AI are quite different.
- reportgunner 3y agoNice try, I'm not telling you !
- ortusdux 3y agoSounds like a 7 red lines situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
- syndicatedjelly 3y agoAbsolutely fascinating read. I am really curious about his artist-colleagues who find ChatGPT to be a boon to their work. That does not strike me as intuitive.
- ChainOfFools 3y agoCan't speak for him, but I would guess that the answer is most working artists pay the rent churning out a stream of unfulfilling, uncreative, derivative works (so they can buy themselves time to do actual artist things) requested by the sort of customer who has no idea what their real motivations are for requesting an artist who can create, when what they actually want, is a craftsman who can make. Most buyers of "creative work" are perfectly happy to pay a premium for something that looks remarkably like something -else- that impressed them, even though this is orthogonal to the purpose of working with an artist. I don't blame (actual) creative artists for dumping this craftwork drudgery onto AI, but it's hard to say what long-term consequences of tapping an ever-dwindling reserve of unexploited prior creative art will be. Maybe the world will end up like one of these ancient cultures whose creative inventory crystallized a century or two into their development and remained the same for the next 500 years until they collapsed.
- lsaferite 3y agoMy artist friend uses AI in their creative pipeline to jumpstart the vision in their head into something visual to start from. They then use that to either refine or recreate based on the visualization the AI provided.
- userbinator 3y agoAI has created a dichotomy --- those who are below-average in their skills will see it as an improvement, while those who are above average will see it as regression.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- sebcat 3y agoAssuming AI is at the level of average
- userbinator 3y agoIt naturally assumes the average of its training data.
- rsanek 3y agoI'm not sure this is necessarily the case, especially considering techniques like RLHF that can improve a model's performance.
- samtho 3y agoAI has created a new standard from which “average” is defined. Rather than a real life analog to a mathematic mean, it’s simply understood to be the level at which AI performs.
- ashu1461 3y agoIt is a tool, those who learn to use the tool will benefit more. average people will be average in using it, smart people have the potential to use it smartly.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
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- gumballindie 3y agoThe AI wave is proof that with the right marketing strategy you can convince masses of idiots that any lie is truth. The lie here being that chatgpt is intelligent and it produces useful complex output. Reddit is full of downvoted ai garbage. Experts in any field will tell you it produces nonsense. Yet these drones keep thinking it’s accurate.
- paxys 3y agoI had bought into the hype initially, but over the last few months the more I use ChatGPT for real work the more I realize that it is mostly coming from people who aren't actually using it themselves. They are instead hyping the idea of it that exists in their head.
- james_marks 3y agoI wonder if you’re missing guidelines on how materials should be prepared for your step of the process. I suspect “5 Why’s” would show that people making these poor suggestions are the symptom, not the problem itself.
- JamesBarney 3y agoI hate that the top voted answer is tattle to the boss. The poster and artists are both adults, and it is tagged communication. It seems like the first step should just be ignoring it or communicating the issue to them. Something like setup a meeting to go through a couple of examples of the flaws in extreme detail, that the solutions many times lack the context to come up with a great answer, you appreciate they're trying to help you figure out the solution with ChatGPT but it's not necessary because you also have access to ChatGPT and leverage it when you can.
- nemo 3y agoIt's not "tattle to the boss", it's using a manager as a resource to help a team work together more effectively. That's part of what they're paid for. If it was one person, a 1::1 could make sense, but they're getting swamped by teammates interrupting their work, it's not their job to deal with that and delegating it to the person whose job it is makes a lot of sense.
- JamesBarney 3y agoI guess different strokes. As an employee, before I escalate any issue I always try to do my best to fix it myself first (barring some efficiency gain like it's far easier for someone else to resolve). And as a manager I appreciate reports who do the same.
- nemo 3y agoAs a past manager (and getting ready to manage another team now), the last thing I'd want would be for anyone on my team to have to deal with being swamped by inane requests from another team and that's something I'd step in to help with even unasked. As an IC whose time has always been highly valuable my current manager and none of my past managers would ever have put up with a group of people from another team interrupting me and squandering my time like that and would have stepped in as well.
- gumballindie 3y ago> artists are both adults Are they? Adults usually employ critical thinking and his artist colleagues obviously dont. It’s not OP’s task to explain the flaws in openai’s product. Top reply is right - raise it with their manager. If the artists are unhappy they can contact openai’s customer support for details on why the product doesnt work as advertised.
- borissk 3y ago[flagged]
- rdiddly 3y agoWow the questioner and most of the top responses are overcomplicating this so much. The best response is the simple truth: "ChatGPT only says what's statistically likely in a given situation, which means it comes up with something plausible-sounding, but not necessarily true. Sometimes it suggests programming tricks that don't exist, for example." Put it in a text file for pasting repeatedly, and ignore any replies of protest.
- wraptile 3y agoThe whole forum is basically drama bait. Top questions are "how do I deal with employee who slept with my wife?", "Criticized for doing my job too well" etc. None of these questions are looking for answers but instead for validation or just a good ol' watercooler chat.
- inemesitaffia 3y agoImagine a company that bills hourly and you deliver in 1 hour instead of the budgeted 20
- n1c00o 3y agoJust do something else for 19h then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- inemesitaffia 3y agoExactly. But what if you push to the clients master (you actually have authority) before then because you don't know better.
- annexrichmond 3y agoI'm not looking forward to having to argue with a coworker that thinks MongoDB is web scale because ChatGPT told them so. It will be a hell of a lot more annoying than[1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs&t=3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs&t=3s
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- tstrimple 3y agoIt would be more helpful for yourself and your colleagues if you didn’t base technology opinions on 13 year old memes.
- LegitShady 3y agogenerate images through stable diffusion and then ask the artists why they can't just do that.
- koonsolo 3y agoThis kind of problem is not entirely new. In the past this was "I read on the internet that ...". In the end the problem is that the artists don't seem to trust the developer. My basic response would be "If ChatGPT knows, let it write and commit the code. If it can't do that, then let me do my job."
- PeterStuer 3y agoThe right approach IMHO is to educate those coworkers on the benefits and weaknesses of ChatGPT. This can only be handled effectively systemic, not on a case by case basis. Btw, this is not a new problem. Even before LLM's widespread popularity, the same problem occurred with those coworkers quickly Googling an answer they do not understand and submitting that as a suggestion.
- pharmakom 3y agoDrives me mad when people just fling ChatGPT responses over the wall and expect me to do the quality control. If that’s all you bring to the table… well, I can use ChatGPT myself and we can save on head count.
- scotty79 3y ago> I then have to take the time to explain why ChatGPT's proposed solution wouldn't work, Asking ChatGPT to provide explanation for why the ChatGPT provided solution wouldn't work is an obvious course of action. What's postulated by ChatGPT without understanding can be dismissed by ChatGPT without understanding.
- corobo 3y ago"Oh wow I've not really used this AI stuff yet, it's really good at making art!" Wait for self preservation to tidy up the loose ends
- prionic6 3y ago[flagged]
- otabdeveloper4 3y ago[flagged]
- whywhywhywhy 3y agoCopy the suggestion into chatgpt and ask it to give a polite decline that you're able to ask CGPT yourself if you wanted a response from it. Then just copy and paste it back to them without even reading it. Although I sympathize and I'm seeing this exact behavior in my own workplace and it's only going to get a lot worse.
- hm-nah 3y agoI’ve been thinking about the future of this type of “AI fatigue”. Microsoft 365 Copilot has embedded this feature in Outlook, Teams, Word, etc. I’m concerned that people’s desire and ability to read content from coworkers will significantly decrease, because…why spend my life reading something that “Bob” didn’t even write? I’m not the only one thinking about this. M365 Copilot even has a “Make it sound like me” button…
- didntcheck 3y agoI still facepalm everytime someone excitedly demonstrates how they used ChatGPT to turn a nice concise message into a wall of PR fluff, as if that's some victory. I get that for some types of writing this is unfortunately beneficial, but for routine transactional emails (especially with internal colleagues), I think 90% of people would much prefer brevity and plain language If I ever spend a long time composing an email, it's usually because I'm trying to make it as short and clear to read as possible. What's that old quote, "forgive me for the length of this letter; I don't have the time to make it short"?
- practice9 3y agoBut you can distill a wall of PR fluff to a concise message with ChatGPT... The problem is the average user thinks "long text = good" and their bosses often agree.
- jaaaisudjdn 3y ago[dead]
- JohnFen 3y agoReading the relies here has made me feel lucky in my workplace. Most people here tried using ChatGPT for a while, but the vast majority stopped using it entirely, so this never happens here. I didn't realize how fortunate I am!
- nonbirithm 3y agoI think this is the main problem that will increasingly come into focus. OpenAI has one of the fastest-growing software releases in history. It's kind of insane how after a year this is already starting to alter people's communication styles. Technologists will have to start asking "why do people still insist on doing this", even with all the discussion about incorrect information coming up. Well, because they wanted to, they could, and nobody has told them "no" yet. I hope the consequences of such a large-scale software rollout are considered next time. If you have to stop and stay "we should educate people about the misuses of this," then some proportion of the population won't be educated or reject being educated outright and do what they want. In my view, the only thing preventing people from throwing around ChatGPT suggestions in inappropriate contexts is... not giving them ChatGPT. To remain naive to the possibilities lest they get excited and unwittingly unleash them on everyone, regardless of true their intentions - as had been the status quo up until a few years ago. Draconian legislation outlawing GPUs or LLMs are more divisive a solution than the general public just not being aware of the possibilities of LLMs. I know this is unrealistic, however. "Time for people to embrace the tech and move on" has become a thought-terminating cliche. As a programmer, I'm lost as to what to say or do about this. I've seen accusations and suspicion of HN commentators giving ChatGPT responses. Accusing someone of using ChatGPT here has become something more nuanced than an insult, but still sows discord. If it's coming to this, I think it is worth examining for what purpose we build the things we do.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]