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Bottled water has 'up to 100 times' more bits of plastic than previously feared
- 2024user 3y agoAnother source/discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38923811 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38923811
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- andrewstuart 3y agoIt amazes me that people drink plastic bottled water. I ensure my little boy uses only metal water bottles.
- xyzzy123 3y agoInterested to see if the findings are applicable to bottled juices, bottled sodas, pex piping, etc. Also canned goods (beers, foods) where there's a plastic liner in the can. If some of the contamination is "pre bottling" then the issue may be way more pervasive than just bottled water.
- timschmidt 3y agoAnything filtered is likely to contain small parts of the filter itself, which is almost always partially plastic.
- isilofi 3y ago"metal" is too unspecific. You usually want stainless steel, preferrably CrNiMo steel (V4A, 1.4401 or similar). Aluminium bottles are always coated with plastic in the factory, which flakes off and usually isn't really better than plastic-bottle-plastic, sometimes even worse (containing PTFE, BPA, ...). As soon as the coating is gone, aluminium will dissolve in the water, and aluminium salts are known to be "not good", in addition to the influence on taste. Same for copper, in addition to the hassle to keep copper clean. Steel bottles are better because proper kitchen-quality stainless steel (the one with Molybdenum in it, in addition to Chromium and Nickel) doesn't leech out into common drinks (including salty hot broth, which would stain CrNi steel) and doesn't need inner coating.
- a_imho 3y agoIs there anything against glass containers? I'm debating what to use for medium/long term storage (replacing the contents) and indeed I'm wary of metal coatings.
- askvictor 3y agoThe glass itself is inert. The seal for the lid often has plastic. Usually not too much of a concern unless you're dealing with acidic foods afaik
- isilofi 3y agoGlass is usually harmless, if you don't use lead or uranium glass. But breakage will lead to harmful shards, which is why many locations such as some schools or party places ban glass bottles. For storage, use glass bottles. The material of the seal is usually not a problem if there is no contact to the liquid and the seal doesn't crumble. When reusing bottles, make sure to only use fresh or at least good-looking caps. And sterilize things properly (taking into account what the seal is suitable for), because mold and bacteria are far more harmful than common metal or plastic contamination.
- mc32 3y agoI guess if they want to go whole hog, they can get cork seals.
- isilofi 3y agoCork is oak, which is carcinogenic (in different amounts in different parts of the plant). Of course for some things one doesn't usually care about that because drinks such as wine are also stored in carcinogenic oak barrels and contain carcinogenic ethanol among other harmful things, so it doesn't really matter. Also, corks promote microbiological contamination of various kinds, leading to e.g. the common failings in wine (there is actually a multitude of "cork" faults, not just one): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_fault https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_fault I'd prefer any metal or plastic to cork actually. Just because it is "natural" or "traditional" doesn't make it any good.
- latortuga 3y agoAre cans or canned food any better? It's all lined with plastic.
- Al-Khwarizmi 3y agoMy little boy drinks bottled water. First of all, at least where I live, tap water has chlorine. Which seems to carry some risks (see, e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12594192/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12594192/). Secondly, my building has copper and PVC pipes, which are also suspected of having some adverse health effects. Thirdly, where I live, sometimes (about once per month) tap water comes out brown. Authorities typically say that it's fine to drink, and I suppose they analyze it and it conforms to some official standard, but I'm not going to drink or give anyone brown water. And that also makes me think that maybe the days it doesn't look brown to me, it might be also somewhat brown, just maybe not brown enough for me to notice. Maybe I'm wrong and plastic from bottles is much worse than these things, but I don't think you should be so amazed that people can prefer bottled water. At the end of the day, it's a matter of picking your poison... with incomplete information.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- monadicmonad 3y agoI can 100% taste the plastic in any bottled water.
- hasty_pudding 3y agoI go to whole foods and fill up a 5 gallon jug of reverse osmosis water for cheaper than a single 8 oz bottle of water.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- whatamidoingyo 3y agoDon't know why you're downvoted. Same. It's $2. Lasts a good week.
- eviks 3y agocould be due to this? > the most commonly detected plastic was polyamide, a material commonly used in water filtration systems and "the most popular membrane material used in reverse osmosis
- instaclay 3y agoThat's what I was thinking. This makes me think my system is less safe than I thought. BUMMER!! This poster's cost drop on the $2/5Gal made me go down the cost analysis train on my own system. I setup my own robust RO system at home and filter my own water. It uses a 20gal tank so the output is very high when demanded (slow regen, lots of storage). We use about 1400gal of drinking water from this system a year between 5 people and 3 pets (I filter their water too), filter media needs replacing every year. (1400/5)*2 = $560/yr cost if purchased water from "Whole Foods" which I don't have access to. I also use the water in the winter for humidifier units, so that probably boosts my usage a lot. Filter replacement costs are ~$80 per year plus the RO membrane every 5yrs (80/5) 80+16 = $96 per year on media... let's just call it $100 to add margin for o-rings replacement or other tooling or random things. 560 - 100 = $460 savings over "Whole Foods"!! Neat! Not counting the convenience costs too. Original investment for the system: $580. Break-even in a bit over 1 year doesn't seem bad. Its been 4 years since I started doing this, so it seems like I am well ahead already. Input water cost is minimal, I pump ground water so there's no cost other than electricity. There are other costs to my water treatment system that I won't include in the "drinking water" category since that's whole home. I also treat for iron/arsenic, which was a 1.8k filter and costs ~$80 in reagents per year.
- h1fra 3y agoIt bothers me that so many people drink bottled water in places where tap water is drinkable. But from time to time I'm reminded that even in those places sometimes bottled water is unavoidable. I have friends in Paris that can't drink tap water after they had led poisoning thanks to very old plumbing.
- rvnx 3y agoThis is a sentence you can say in places with nice water, but often the mineralization content is very different, the taste isn't really good, etc.
- hellweaver666 3y agoyou can get home filter systems (either manual jug style or plumbed in) that can deal with most of these problems.
- diggan 3y agoSeems like even those systems might be causing additional harm: > Ironically enough, the most commonly detected plastic was polyamide, a material commonly used in water filtration systems and "the most popular membrane material used in reverse osmosis … a common water purification method shared by all three brands [of water tested]," the team wrote in the paper.
- dopidopHN 3y agoI live in New Orleans. Our water is the Mississippi water. The Mississippi is also the open sewer of the Midwest. And our sewer and water board is incompetent and corrupt ( I love public infra. This one sucks ) As a result. I don’t drink that water directly and filter it. I think that will be more and more common. At least in the US.
- HenryBemis 3y agoWould some Brita (or any other related product) filter pitcher help at this, or it wouldn't catch some/most/all of the nasty stuff? (genuinely asking)
- Decabytes 3y agoI knew a girl in college that would only drink bottled water. She had convinced herself there was a taste difference. She wouldn't even drink tap water filtered from a brita filter
- greatpostman 3y agoThere’s a huge difference
- fullstop 3y agoNot where I live, but my local water supply has been tapped by Deer Park [1]. I still filter the drinking water, but my tap quality is fantastic. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deer_Park_Spring_Water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deer_Park_Spring_Water
- rvnx 3y agoShe was right, there is a big difference. Try Evian versus the waters sold by Coca-Cola (that are tap-water equivalent) and you can really feel it.
- 6d6b73 3y agoAll that plastic must have some taste, right?
- monktastic1 3y agoDifference from what? Even different municipalities have vastly different tastes from each other. (That said, it's never bothered me to drink tap water wherever I go, and acclimate quickly. I think the bottled water trend is insane.)
- ImHereToVote 3y agoAren't Brita filters gonna have the same problem as the nanoplastics discussed in this article? The article specifically says that the plastic isn't from the bottles themselves.
- xyst 3y ago
- falsandtru 3y ago> "Previous studies found the major chemical composition to be PET, which is expected since the bottle is made of PET," Yan told us. "Therefore, for a long time, we had the impression that the majority of plastic particles inside bottled water would be Polyethylene terephthalate (PET) particles of a few hundred nanometers in size." > "That was incorrect," Yan said. > Ironically enough, the most commonly detected plastic was polyamide, a material commonly used in water filtration systems and "the most popular membrane material used in reverse osmosis … a common water purification method shared by all three brands [of water tested]," the team wrote in the paper. Too different from the title. And the other comments seem to have been written without reading the text.
- everdrive 3y agoThis is unfortunate news given that I have a plastic water filter on my house.
- kylebenzle 3y agoPlastic seems like an odd choice to use to drink/eat from and even stranger to filter your water. The Berkey uses a carbon filter and ceramic filters have been used for centuries. I e filtered my water through either for the last 20 years. It has always boggled my mind that people use plastic to drink out of and filter their water. Can I ask, why do you choose to use plastic rather than ceramic/carbon filter?
- Workaccount2 3y agoBerkey doesn't have NSF/ANSI cert. They claim its because it's not thorough enough and too expensive. But you can make up whatever reason you want to avoid standardized third party testing.
- everdrive 3y agoIt came with the house and I didn't think much of it. We have a well and get significant sand, iron, and a few other things without the filter. I'll probably be upgrade to carbon asap.
- crtified 3y agoI assume the same principle of microplastic contamination applies to some degree, not only to bottled water itself, but also to many other food and drink products where a primary ingredient is that kind of commercial plastic-filtered water. For example, most packaged beverages (soft drinks, alcoholic drinks, etc), and certain packaged or jarred food items.
- BuckYeah 3y agoI read these articles and the comments and wonder how many people who are concerned with these things also drink alcohol or drive dangerously or consume unhealthy food. All of which will affect their lives way worse than particles of plastic.
- kylebenzle 3y agoExactly. Why be a vegetarian, or watch your weight if your also going to drink occasionally? Why avoid heroin if your going to overeat once in awhile.
- mc32 3y agoThe problem is people don't know how to quantify the risk, including myself. However there a number of people who panic! And the panicky people have loud voices. They treat everything like DDT or asbestos. That's not to say that caution is not warranted. It is, but take it easy, the frogs aren't turning gay and people are living longer, so long as they don't get hooked on addictive drugs, including tobacco, alcohol, MJ, amphetamines, etc.
- latentcall 3y ago> All of which will affect their lives way worse than particles of plastic. Okay, are you saying we shouldn’t care whatsoever if we ingest PLASTIC (!!!) because beer and McDonalds exist? People shouldn’t care? I don’t drink, I don’t eat fast food. I don’t “drive dangerously” and I sure as hell am going to do everything in my power to make sure I am not eating or drinking plastic. Same goes for my wife and kids.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- josefresco 3y agoMy town banned single-use plastic water bottles. Now stores sell water in cans, does that water also contain plastic particles? It sounds like it doesn't matter: "Ironically enough, the most commonly detected plastic was polyamide, a material commonly used in water filtration systems and "the most popular membrane material used in reverse osmosis … a common water purification method shared by all three brands [of water tested]," the team wrote in the paper."
- ijhuygft776 3y agoI think cans are coated with a chemical unfortunately > Virtually all metal cans used for food and beverage products are lined on the inside with a coating that uses BPA as a starting material.
- DoingIsLearning 3y ago> the most commonly detected plastic was polyamide, a material commonly used in water filtration systems and "the most popular membrane material used in reverse osmosis … a common water purification method shared by all three brands [of water tested] Is this inevitable with a polyamide membrane RO system or is this wear and tear with insuficient maintenance/ part replacement?
- pyaamb 3y agoAre there good reasons why Distillation + Re-Added Electrolytes method isn't used more?
- endo_bunker 3y agoCost
- bilsbie 3y agoI haven’t been able to find a good distiller. Everything on Amazon looks to be rebrands of the same product which I tried. It seems once the water is boiling inside it’s vigorous enough to kick particles out with the steam. (And it’s hard to refill without occasionally spilling on the cord which ultimately killed mine)
- bilsbie 3y agoI’m still trying to figure out why I can’t buy a drip coffee maker that’s not plastic. Hot water and an acidic beverage running through plastic every morning. Doesn’t seem good.
- jmnicolas 3y agoLook for a Chemex or a V60 (the non plstic one). But it will involve a bit of labor.
- ijhuygft776 3y agowhy use a drip coffee make when you could be making some good coffee for about the same price using something like Bialetti Moka Express Espresso Maker?
- darajava 3y agoyou can. i use a metal funnel and unbleached coffee filters
- menotyou 3y agoBecause of the we did not like the taste of our tab water and we were concerned with plastic in the water when buying bottled water, we bought a reverse osmosis filter for home. We added a mineral filter to the system so we get some minerals as well (only to improve the taste). I still quite a fan of this even when I drink water from plastic bottles when I am on the road. Cost wise I found it evens out per bottle when compared to buy cheap bottled water from e.g. Aldi. However, it is not necessary to carry water bottles anymore which already is quite an improvement and well worth the money.
- ijhuygft776 3y agoDon't Aldi's water bottles have chlorine like city water does?
- TylerE 3y agoThe article has bad news for ya then... > the most commonly detected plastic was polyamide, a material commonly used in water filtration systems and "the most popular membrane material used in reverse osmosis
- soramimo 3y agoUgh, I also have a reverse Osmosis system and this is the first time hearing about this. Anyone here knows is there is research suggesting that these filters may have adverse health effects?
- morpheos137 3y agoThe blind group think and hand waving around this topic always astounds me. Plastics used in water bottles are not water soluable. Is there ANY hard evidence of harm to human health from ingesting minute quantities plastic dust vs any other kinds of dust? Most plastics are chemically and biologically inert. That is why they don't break down in nature. Where is the evidence that they react in the body to cause harm? A water bottle is not your vinyl shower curtain. It is made of PET or maybe PE. Neither are biologically active. Polyamide ( nylon ) in water filters is non toxic. You could probably eat a teaspoon of fine nylon powder a day suspended in water for years with no health effects because it would just pass through the body without reacting, mainly excreted with feces. Your intestines are not going to absorb insoluble plastics into your blood. The quantities found in water bottles are far, far, less than a teaspoon. Is there any study that purports to find a significant quantity of polyamide or PET or PE in blood??? It really seems there is a media generated mass hysteria around safe plastics. Not all plastics are the same. Plastics used for food or drink application are typically PROVEN safe from decades of study. What are we all worried about then?
- jmnicolas 3y agoAs long as you can't definitively prove it's harmless, I'd rather avoid the stuff if at all possible. For example there was a time when publicity recommending cigarettes to pregnant women was a thing.
- rldjbpin 3y agohaving grown up with in-house water filteration for drinking, from simple uv or charcoal filtering to 14+ stage filteration shebang, it is sad to hear that the source of microplastics might be from the RO process. i wonder if it is more of an issue for large-scale filteration or even for the ones used at homes. anyways, for our generation and the next microplastics are here to stay (just check the search results here https://hn.algolia.com/?q=microplastics https://hn.algolia.com/?q=microplastics)