7 ms·

I disagree. The sustainable alternative is to get an EV for 98% of the time and rent a purpose-built vehicle for the edge cases whether those edge cases are for

by ttfkam 3y ago

I disagree. The sustainable alternative is to get an EV for 98% of the time and rent a purpose-built vehicle for the edge cases whether those edge cases are for long distance, towing, or hauling. Let the rental companies keep and maintain the gas cars.

bonestamp2 3y ago
I agree, but most people don't want to think that way. Plugin hybrids are a great answer for those people, but they're not buying those either. I mean, roughly 90% of car trips in the US are under 30 miles roundtrip. Therefore, nearly every PHEV is designed to handle 30 miles of fully electric driving. That means they are an EV 90% of the time for the average consumer. The problem is, most consumers don't understand this so when they see that a PHEV only has 30 miles of range they think that's absurd when most of the time it's actually more than enough. Of course there are outliers and people who they wouldn't be right for, but we're just talking about most people.
- ProjectArcturis 3y ago
  I would love to drive a PHEV, but the math just doesn't work out. They're $10-$20k more than the ICE equivalent. At best I'm going to save like $1000 a year on gas.
  - bonestamp2 3y ago
    You're right about the math. I don't blame you for making the decision based on the cost difference, but not everyone makes a car buying decision that way so it's important to point out the other benefits for the folks who are willing to pay more for those other benefits.
brtkdotse 3y ago
Every time I suggest “just rent a ICE for the edge case trips” people look at me like I’ve just kicked their dog
- winrid 3y ago
  It does decrease the amount of trips you take, to be fair. It doesn't have to, but it does. Also, renting is a pain. I used to rent 6-10 times a year and about 50% of the time you'd get what you asked for, or had to run to an airport for better selection. I'd ask for a subcompact and they'd give me a van, vice versa...
- _fizz_buzz_ 3y ago
  Seriously, I am very surprised how resistant people are to it. When I was younger my dad had a big car and all year he would drive it by himself to work, but we ”needed” this big car once a year to go on family vacation and then filled that car to the brim for this one trip. It would have made so much more sense to just have a small commuter car for his daily commute and then just rent a gigantic car once a year for the family trip that could actually hold all our stuff.
- llbeansandrice 3y ago
  With the monetary and opportunity cost of renting (hassle, unpredictability, risk) it makes sense very very quickly to just own an ICE car for the predictable edge cases. Have you rented a car recently? It’s a nightmare half the time. In engineering I’d call that a high risk single point of failure.
  - fsh 3y ago
    There is no fundamental reason for car rental to be that awful. App-based free floating rental cars (think e-scooters, but with actual cars) are ubiquitous in large German cities and work extremely well. There are usually several free cars within a 5 minute walking distance, and booking one takes less than 30s. You can even pre-book a car the day before, and the company will bring it close to your home (if necessary), and reserve it for you. The classical rental car experience (AVIS and co.) is comically bad in comparison.
    - 8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
      Avis was fine the 1 and only time I used it. Car was ready waiting for me in the parking lot. Just hop in they said. Keys inside. Quick check at the gate and that's it
Jasp3r 3y ago
"Just alter your lifestyle to match the kind of car I want you to buy"
2rsf 3y ago
I agree and more or less live this way, but it doesn't work for everyone or everywhere. In order to be able to easily and cost efficiently rent a car you need the right infrastructure.

by ttfkam 3y ago

bonestamp2 3y ago

I agree, but most people don't want to think that way. Plugin hybrids are a great answer for those people, but they're not buying those either. I mean, roughly 90% of car trips in the US are under 30 miles roundtrip. Therefore, nearly every PHEV is designed to handle 30 miles of fully electric driving. That means they are an EV 90% of the time for the average consumer. The problem is, most consumers don't understand this so when they see that a PHEV only has 30 miles of range they think that's absurd when most of the time it's actually more than enough. Of course there are outliers and people who they wouldn't be right for, but we're just talking about most people.

ProjectArcturis 3y ago
I would love to drive a PHEV, but the math just doesn't work out. They're $10-$20k more than the ICE equivalent. At best I'm going to save like $1000 a year on gas.
- bonestamp2 3y ago
  You're right about the math. I don't blame you for making the decision based on the cost difference, but not everyone makes a car buying decision that way so it's important to point out the other benefits for the folks who are willing to pay more for those other benefits.

brtkdotse 3y ago

Every time I suggest “just rent a ICE for the edge case trips” people look at me like I’ve just kicked their dog

winrid 3y ago
It does decrease the amount of trips you take, to be fair. It doesn't have to, but it does. Also, renting is a pain. I used to rent 6-10 times a year and about 50% of the time you'd get what you asked for, or had to run to an airport for better selection. I'd ask for a subcompact and they'd give me a van, vice versa...
_fizz_buzz_ 3y ago
Seriously, I am very surprised how resistant people are to it. When I was younger my dad had a big car and all year he would drive it by himself to work, but we ”needed” this big car once a year to go on family vacation and then filled that car to the brim for this one trip. It would have made so much more sense to just have a small commuter car for his daily commute and then just rent a gigantic car once a year for the family trip that could actually hold all our stuff.
llbeansandrice 3y ago
With the monetary and opportunity cost of renting (hassle, unpredictability, risk) it makes sense very very quickly to just own an ICE car for the predictable edge cases. Have you rented a car recently? It’s a nightmare half the time. In engineering I’d call that a high risk single point of failure.
- fsh 3y ago
  There is no fundamental reason for car rental to be that awful. App-based free floating rental cars (think e-scooters, but with actual cars) are ubiquitous in large German cities and work extremely well. There are usually several free cars within a 5 minute walking distance, and booking one takes less than 30s. You can even pre-book a car the day before, and the company will bring it close to your home (if necessary), and reserve it for you. The classical rental car experience (AVIS and co.) is comically bad in comparison.
  - 8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
    Avis was fine the 1 and only time I used it. Car was ready waiting for me in the parking lot. Just hop in they said. Keys inside. Quick check at the gate and that's it

Jasp3r 3y ago

"Just alter your lifestyle to match the kind of car I want you to buy"

2rsf 3y ago

I agree and more or less live this way, but it doesn't work for everyone or everywhere. In order to be able to easily and cost efficiently rent a car you need the right infrastructure.