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> I don't need to bother some Torch expert to do it for me. This is, indeed, the core of our disagreement. You seem confident it would be a bother to others t

> I don't need to bother some Torch expert to do it for me. This is, indeed, the core of our disagreement. You seem confident it would be a bother to others to ask for help. I'm confident that there are many who would value the opportunity to collaborate with you. I feel sure that whatever analysis you're doing could benefit from the sounding board of a domain expert, and you'd both benefit from the exchange. EDIT: to clarify, being "famous" has nothing to do with it. Each of us has worth and we all would gain by working with others.

hobs 3y ago
That's a pretty big exception to the general case though if your argument is "you are a famous person and people would love to collab" - at 2am your time, exactly when you are motivated? And what if you are not a world famous programmer, what then? To me its like saying you shouldn't play solitaire because you are a world class poker player, and there's plenty of people who want to game with you. They are orthogonal concepts - just communicating with people can be more work than just reading on your own.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kreetx 3y ago
It's more of the scale you do your thing. For the quick and dirty thing, I'm going to write Torch model within the hours - where would I find a collaborator who is willing to start immediately within that time?
e12e 3y ago
At least the LLM is in the same time zone...
ativzzz 3y ago
You're right, but not always. Some people work differently than others and would rather headbutt against a wall on their own for hours than work with other people. In the long term, it is beneficial to have experts as your collaborators. From my experience though, true collaboration is unlocked once you have established a personal relationship with someone, which takes time and repeated effort. Until then, the collaboration is no better than searching the internet or asking chatGPT. Establishing relationships with people is hard and takes a lot of work, and frequently doesn't work out like you hope. ChatGPT is a close enough approximation for smaller tasks like the OP describes
- couchand 3y ago
  It's hard, and many of us (myself included) and not great at it. That makes it seem easier to reach for the simulacrum. But at what cost? Homo sapiens's superpower is social cooperation. My concern is that these systems will abet the existing social forces which seem to be causing unprecendented levels of isolation of adults, which will continue to drive smart people away from collaboration and towards solitude, at a level far beyond simple prefences would suggest. We already have enough trouble hearing each other through the noise, and understanding what each other has to say. I don't have the answers but I'm looking for them and I do hope other humans will, too.
  - ativzzz 3y ago
    I think people tend to cooperate only when there are tangible benefits such as: - survival - making money - sex - enjoyment via social interactions (like parties, hangouts, etc) It just so happens that for the majority of our civilization, to get those things, we've had to cooperate, but as we develop technology, our ability to get those things increases and our reliance on others decrease (though in a weird way it increases since technology is complexity so society becomes larger, more complex, and more inter-dependent) We are still in an unprecedented technological boom of computing so we are adjusting on the fly to it. Like the OP says, AI can greatly accelerate independent learning, but eventually that learning plateaus. Once it does, we have to go back to collaboration, but until we find that limit, I think it's human nature to push on.
    - mistrial9 3y ago
      no - predatory behavior in groups is completely missing from this list. To extend that ides, IMHO much of "business" and some government, falls into this category easily. This is true for all large language groups world wide, irrespective of politics details.
      - ativzzz 3y ago
        Those fall under making money and surival (and honestly sex and enjoyment as well)
politician 3y ago
Local inference of LLMs is essentially free. There doesn’t exist a sufficiently deep pool of experts of all knowledge spaces who are also willing to work for free, who can be trivially identified, contacted, and scheduled.
dash2 3y ago
The argument here seems to be that there is a free supply of software developers available for the taking. Software developers are quite well paid, which suggests this is not true.
ctoth 3y ago
Hi Couchand. I'm a mediocre programmer who uses GPT for a ton. Are you volunteering to answer my questions on all the obscure stuff I ask it? Because I don't really know anybody else who will. Anyway, my email is in my profile, write to me if this is something you're up for! Edit: Here's a list of the stuff I asked it over the weekend: - Discuss the pros and cons of using Standardized-audio-context instead of just relying on browser defaults. Consider build size and other issues. - How to get github actions to cache node_modules (not the npm cache built-in to the actions/setup-node action. - Howto get the current git hash in a GitHub action? - Rewrite a react class-based component in functional style - How to test that certain JSX elements were generated without directly-comparing React elements for my ANSI color to HTML parser? - Does it make more sense to keep a copy of the original text in an editor, or just hold on to something like a crc32 to mark a document dirty? - Can you set focus to a window you create with window.open? (You sure can!) - Rewrite the rollup.config.js for a library of mine to produce a separate rollup config per audio worklet bundle - Turn this tutorial for backing up a Mastodon instance into a script - Refactor a standalone class to split it in half so each class manages precisely one thing. - I have some code I'm writing for turn-by-turn directions. I have the data structures already, let's write code to narrate them. - What's with this weird type error around custom CSS properties with React?
- krainboltgreene 3y ago
  If only there was a website that allowed people to ask an absurd amount of questions, for free, and get people's insight within a semi-reasonable amount of time.
ParetoOptimal 3y ago
If the pytorch piece is for something low priority, its probably not worth reaching out to someone else.
madeofpalk 3y ago
I'm not going to ask a human - even a coworker - for every intellisense suggestion. Neither of us would get value from that exchange.

hobs 3y ago

That's a pretty big exception to the general case though if your argument is "you are a famous person and people would love to collab" - at 2am your time, exactly when you are motivated? And what if you are not a world famous programmer, what then? To me its like saying you shouldn't play solitaire because you are a world class poker player, and there's plenty of people who want to game with you. They are orthogonal concepts - just communicating with people can be more work than just reading on your own.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

kreetx 3y ago

It's more of the scale you do your thing. For the quick and dirty thing, I'm going to write Torch model within the hours - where would I find a collaborator who is willing to start immediately within that time?

e12e 3y ago

At least the LLM is in the same time zone...

ativzzz 3y ago

You're right, but not always. Some people work differently than others and would rather headbutt against a wall on their own for hours than work with other people. In the long term, it is beneficial to have experts as your collaborators. From my experience though, true collaboration is unlocked once you have established a personal relationship with someone, which takes time and repeated effort. Until then, the collaboration is no better than searching the internet or asking chatGPT. Establishing relationships with people is hard and takes a lot of work, and frequently doesn't work out like you hope. ChatGPT is a close enough approximation for smaller tasks like the OP describes

couchand 3y ago
It's hard, and many of us (myself included) and not great at it. That makes it seem easier to reach for the simulacrum. But at what cost? Homo sapiens's superpower is social cooperation. My concern is that these systems will abet the existing social forces which seem to be causing unprecendented levels of isolation of adults, which will continue to drive smart people away from collaboration and towards solitude, at a level far beyond simple prefences would suggest. We already have enough trouble hearing each other through the noise, and understanding what each other has to say. I don't have the answers but I'm looking for them and I do hope other humans will, too.
- ativzzz 3y ago
  I think people tend to cooperate only when there are tangible benefits such as: - survival - making money - sex - enjoyment via social interactions (like parties, hangouts, etc) It just so happens that for the majority of our civilization, to get those things, we've had to cooperate, but as we develop technology, our ability to get those things increases and our reliance on others decrease (though in a weird way it increases since technology is complexity so society becomes larger, more complex, and more inter-dependent) We are still in an unprecedented technological boom of computing so we are adjusting on the fly to it. Like the OP says, AI can greatly accelerate independent learning, but eventually that learning plateaus. Once it does, we have to go back to collaboration, but until we find that limit, I think it's human nature to push on.
  - mistrial9 3y ago
    no - predatory behavior in groups is completely missing from this list. To extend that ides, IMHO much of "business" and some government, falls into this category easily. This is true for all large language groups world wide, irrespective of politics details.
    - ativzzz 3y ago
      Those fall under making money and surival (and honestly sex and enjoyment as well)

politician 3y ago

Local inference of LLMs is essentially free. There doesn’t exist a sufficiently deep pool of experts of all knowledge spaces who are also willing to work for free, who can be trivially identified, contacted, and scheduled.

dash2 3y ago

The argument here seems to be that there is a free supply of software developers available for the taking. Software developers are quite well paid, which suggests this is not true.

ctoth 3y ago

Hi Couchand. I'm a mediocre programmer who uses GPT for a ton. Are you volunteering to answer my questions on all the obscure stuff I ask it? Because I don't really know anybody else who will. Anyway, my email is in my profile, write to me if this is something you're up for! Edit: Here's a list of the stuff I asked it over the weekend: - Discuss the pros and cons of using Standardized-audio-context instead of just relying on browser defaults. Consider build size and other issues. - How to get github actions to cache node_modules (not the npm cache built-in to the actions/setup-node action. - Howto get the current git hash in a GitHub action? - Rewrite a react class-based component in functional style - How to test that certain JSX elements were generated without directly-comparing React elements for my ANSI color to HTML parser? - Does it make more sense to keep a copy of the original text in an editor, or just hold on to something like a crc32 to mark a document dirty? - Can you set focus to a window you create with window.open? (You sure can!) - Rewrite the rollup.config.js for a library of mine to produce a separate rollup config per audio worklet bundle - Turn this tutorial for backing up a Mastodon instance into a script - Refactor a standalone class to split it in half so each class manages precisely one thing. - I have some code I'm writing for turn-by-turn directions. I have the data structures already, let's write code to narrate them. - What's with this weird type error around custom CSS properties with React?

krainboltgreene 3y ago
If only there was a website that allowed people to ask an absurd amount of questions, for free, and get people's insight within a semi-reasonable amount of time.

ParetoOptimal 3y ago

If the pytorch piece is for something low priority, its probably not worth reaching out to someone else.

madeofpalk 3y ago

I'm not going to ask a human - even a coworker - for every intellisense suggestion. Neither of us would get value from that exchange.