4 ms·

The article tries to articulate the value add through attention to detail in manufacturing "so the bags survive 6 years of rough and tumble", but I'm not really

The article tries to articulate the value add through attention to detail in manufacturing "so the bags survive 6 years of rough and tumble", but I'm not really getting it. What am I missing? I had a $60-in-1995 northface backpack that lasted through hauling 5+ periods of textbooks every day, walking and biking to middle school and highschool. It worked fine, in fact my dad still uses it (30 years later) to hold and transport teaching materials for a college course he teaches. Lots of kids got by with a single basic $25 Jansport. Today, kids in the U.S. don't even tote many (or any) books, most of the content and schoolwork takes place on a lightweight Chromebook that stays in the classroom.

Doxin 3y ago
> I had a $60-in-1995 northface backpack that lasted through hauling 5+ periods of textbooks every day Mine did that, and has since been lying out in the rain in the back yard holding firewood. It's a decade+ later and the thing is still perfectly fine other than being a bit dirty. Bet a good wash would get it back to being perfectly usable as a backpack.
rascul 3y ago
> Lots of kids got by with a single basic $25 Jansport. Those zippers never lasted long for me.
hnbear 3y ago
My kids carry a ton of books, I'm a large guy and find their bags weigh a ton, it's awful for my kids. I have a 5'3 100' daughter and her bag weighs a significant portion of her own weight. And their Chromebooks are not the tiny svelte high end ones. They're the chunky cheap and heavy ones too. And they're Middleschool, so can't leave them in one classroom, they get toted around, and back to home for homework every day.
rokkitmensch 3y ago
Three cheers for the Jansport!
- alpple 3y ago
  I buy Jansport because the zippers never break.
  - tharkun__ 3y ago
    YKK zippers?
wraptile 3y ago
I enjoyed the article but like much of online content about Japan it comes off like obsessive fan service. Can you imagine carrying 1-2kg empty backpack with you every day? Just because something took long to make doesn't mean it's superior in production or quality or even perception. It's pretty, fashionable and the tradition is wholesome but that's where it ends. I got a free backpack with my new Thinkpad laptop recently. It's light, well designed, mass produced, easy to personalize - would take this over the 450$ school bags any time of the year.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  I can imagine because I did it. Many kids might learn out of Chromebooks in the US, but textbooks and copybooks continue to have value for many people, and don't depend on security patches or constant charging. For years I carried 6-7kg of books up and down steep hills for a mile each day, rain or shine. While I'm also a big fan of modern backpacks, purpose built ones designed to last have their own value.
- JohnBooty 3y ago
  I got a free backpack with my new Thinkpad laptop recently. It's light, well designed, mass produced, easy to personalize - would take this over the 450$ school bags any time of the year. Just to be clear: you're using your freebie bag to carry a laptop and not 6kg/13lb of schoolbooks, correct? Something tells me the answer is "yes" which kind of makes me wonder why you're mentioning it Do you also drive around in a compact car and think "man this is so much better than a school bus" and pat yourself on the back every time you see a school bus
  - wraptile 3y ago
    I'm confused how is that relevant what's being carried in it? in fact the flexible synthethic backpack molds much better to variable-sized objects you'd put in it rather than giant square leather bucket.
    - nephanth 3y ago
paxys 3y ago
The moment you add an aspect of culture and social pressure all economics goes out of the window. The bags cost $450 because it is the expectation that grandparents will buy an expensive school bag for their grandkids, that's it. Everything else ("it's handcrafted!", "it has 200 parts!", "it's durable") is reverse justification from there. It's the same as trying to figure out why a tiny piece of abundant rock costs thousands of dollars when sold as an "engagement ring".
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > Everything else ("it's handcrafted!", "it's durable!") is a reverse justification from there. Thanks for this, exactly. It's the same thing with designer bags. After the rise of "superfake" luxury bags that cost literally a tenth of the real thing, I remember reading some blogs trying to argue why people should buy authentic, basing it on BS "handcrafted quality!" reasons (the reason they were called "superfakes" in the first place is because the quality was basically as good as the original). Sure, some of the reasons were actually true (it does cost a lot more to pay workers in France compared to China), but any rationale besides "I want other people to know I spent a lot of money on a bag" is just post hoc rationalization.
  - selcuka 3y ago
    > Sure, some of the reasons were actually true (it does cost a lot more to pay workers in France compared to China) Even that, is not a problem that the consumer has to solve if the superfakes can attain the same quality using cheaper labour. In that case supporting local jobs could be a justification, not quality (again, assuming that the quality is the same).
    - MichaelZuo 3y ago
      Or better yet something without any fake logos whatsoever that is even higher quality than the 'real' thing. e.g. Even Louis Vuitton for their most expensive bags doesn't use the absolute highest quality leather, so there's room for improvement.
  - 3y ago
addicted 3y ago
The article doesn’t try to do that at all. It just points out that these bags do need to last 6 years so they aren’t throwaway items. In fact, towards the end it points to how some schools are managing to achieve the same with $60 bags “ran-bags”. I think you’re reading too much into it if you think the article is trying to justify the cost. It’s trying to explain the cost, which is driven by the fact that these are hand made and have a ton of parts and also need to last many years.
ummonk 3y ago
The article seems to be aware of the fact that plastic backpacks can be durable too: "Some schools in Shimane prefecture have moved to city-provided lightweight nylon backpacks called ran-bags (yeah, don’t ask me how they name things in Japan). Unlike the randoseru, these cost a much more affordable 8,000 yen (57 USD), are lighter, and just as durable."
dmamills 3y ago
> What am I missing? Likely a disrespect for a living wage for a common craftsman, and a misunderstanding of what quality goods actually are. Certainly a lot of kids here survived on cheap $25 jansports, but did the people making them?
- kstrauser 3y ago
  It's not my moral duty to keep the makers of expensive bags employed. I mean, I do that anyway as a hobby, but I don't owe it to anyone.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 3y ago
    But maybe the Japanese value some of their traditions and want to keep them alive. There’s nothing wrong with that either.
    - kstrauser 3y ago
      No, there's nothing wrong with that at all! However, that works both ways. It's wrong to say someone is "disrespectful" and "misunderstanding quality goods" because they don't want to get their kid a $450 bag instead of a cheaper, still-durable one.
  - dmamills 3y ago
    Certainly not, and I don't mean to speak for you. But lets just say that I exist within the FANG dystopia where at any moment I can be wrangled into a meeting with a half dozen people, that if you actually consider the salaries, headcount, and time, racks up to hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars burned. For the takeaway that the modal should be fullscreen, or that we are dramatically adjusting our "design system", or whatever may have been so mission critical. Real tangible goods. But perhaps what I do is worth more, I mean, we are talkin' computers here! we are the true craftsmen!
- dimmke 3y ago
  Man I'm kind of a bag snob but even pricier brands that differentiate on quality and worker wages are not $400. I got a Tom Bihn Synapse backpack for around $200 in 2017 that I've traveled to many countries with and has been through I think way more than a kid going to elementary school. It's still going strong today. It was made in a US factory with workers being paid good wages. $400 is a luxury/captive audience/conspicuous consumption price point.
guessmyname 3y ago
Curious coincidence, I bought a randoseru (ランドセル) [1][2][3] early this morning and complained to my wife all the way to the store. She doesn’t want our children to look different at school. They are already different enough for being hāfu [4] and she doesn’t want to traumatize them even more. The bags are stiff and, in my eyes, quite ugly, and children are supposed to carry several books every day, good exercise but there are much better alternatives. Schools are just too bully to let anyone use a different style. As the saying goes → 出る杭は打たれる “The stake that sticks out will be driven down.” [1] https://tsuchiya-randoseru.jp https://tsuchiya-randoseru.jp [2] https://www.seiban.co.jp https://www.seiban.co.jp [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randoseru https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randoseru [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hāfu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hāfu
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- bradknowles 3y ago
  That saying is also known as "Tall Poppy Syndrome".
- JohnBooty 3y ago
  This may well be for the best. It's good to fight against bad traditions, but don't use your kids as the battlefield. Being forced by their parents to be "different" can really make a kids' life into hell.
- new299 3y ago
  They also break... ours lasted 2 years and then one of the rivets popped out. Generally I believe you are allowed to use a different bag, it's just... uncommon.
  - nephanth 3y ago
    Curiosity: do they have warranty (for how long?)? Does the manufacturer take them back and perform repairs?
jerlam 3y ago
I'll hazard a guess - Japan is a walking society, and these backpacks are being worn every day, laden with books, back and forth from home to school, or on buses or the subway. Americans generally get driven to school. The backpack is worn only between classes at school and then moved from car trunk to home, not worn during those times. I personally wore out a $100 Eddie Bauer backpack every other year or so during middle/high school. I walked to school every day for over a mile, rain or shine. The zippers would completely fail, or the shoulder straps would detach. Eddie Bauer had a lifetime warranty so they replaced the backpacks without question.
- maxglute 3y ago
  I'm guessing when you have a $450 back pack you're also taught to take care of it. A zipperless buckle/draw string bag with performance fabrics would probably be just as durable as these bags. And I'm not convinced these bags are provide buyitforlife value since a lot of videos show old bags getting repaired/restored which considering the materials and construction involved, probably cost as much as a new bag. The manufacturers has a section on leather care and maintenance when alternative is to throw a fabric bag in the wash.
- kasey_junk 3y ago
  My kid has been using the same $100 bag for his entire school career. He’s in 5th grade and walks to school over a mile 90% of the year. In a northern climate. That bag looks like it will last another 5-10 years. Frankly, his classmates have cheaper bags with similar outcomes so I doubt price is highly correlated with performance past a certain price point.
  - JohnBooty 3y ago
    When I was in school in the 80s-90s I pretty much nevvvverrrr saw kids reusing bags for multiple years. I think cheap bags were just crappier back then But even the Jansports seemed to get replaced. I think kids were just rougher on their bags back then. I remember my bags absolutely bulging with 4-5 big hardbound textbooks. Don't see that much any more.
GuB-42 3y ago
> Today, kids in the U.S. don't even tote many (or any) books, most of the content and schoolwork takes place on a lightweight Chromebook that stays in the classroom. Not in Japan, according to the article.
option 3y ago
"most of the content and schoolwork takes place on a lightweight Chromebook that stays in the classroom" - a disastrous mistake.
soultrees 3y ago
I’m with you on that. I’ve had a north face bag for almost 20 years (and it looks like it!) but it’s still strong as can be. The unfortunate thing is I was in the market for a new bag and went to the north face store of course and the only bag they had in the whole store was some shoestring style bag. Quite disappointing to see north face forget their roots.
selcuka 3y ago
> The article tries to articulate the value add through attention to detail in manufacturing "so the bags survive 6 years of rough and tumble" I don't think it does. The emphasis is on being a hand crafted item: > A randoseru can have up to 200 die cut parts and polyurethane back plates, and are mostly assembled by hand, making it an expensive item to produce. It even says that cheaper bags are even better: > Unlike the randoseru, these cost a much more affordable 8,000 yen (57 USD), are lighter, and just as durable.
Rudism 3y ago
> Today, kids in the U.S. don't even tote many (or any) books, most of the content and schoolwork takes place on a lightweight Chromebook that stays in the classroom. This may be a regional thing, because my kids have to lug heavier loads back and forth to school every day than I ever had to when I was a kid, and that's on top of their Chromebooks and sometimes an instrument for band. They also don't get lockers big enough to store anything substantial so they've got to carry everything all the time. We pretty much go through a new backpack each year for each kid because they get so worn down from having their capacity continuously stretched to the limit.
atoav 3y ago
Also, you add your kid to Club 450 USD-schoolbag. That can be good or bad, as the other kids in that club may or may not be assholes and your kid may or may not want to be in that club. Does your kid even want to be the kid with the 450 USD school bag? I came from a family that could easily have afforded the 450 USD school bag. But that would have been ridiculous to me. If you are rich and want to teach your kid to treat money so they can survive without inheritance, you definitely should do the opposite of buying them the 450 USD school bag. A lot about a good person is about valuing the right things the right amount. School bags are cool, but bad ones are not that much worse than 450 USD ones. As someone coming from one of the richer families in my schools I always was the guy using what was there. My brothers old bag, some rucksack that wasn't in use anymore, a shopping bag. I certainly never looked rich. If I wanted anything more I had to buy it using my own money, and that was slimmer than the money of some of my poorer peers. If I made my case well and long enough in front of my parents they would support what I was trying to get with a fraction of their money. And there was always birthdays/christmas. I was one of the few kids in school not playing the game of defining yourself via branded cloths and I had a convinced stand on that. Nobody that I truly cared about gave a damn about this anyways, quite the opposite: Many had respect for me not playing these games and having the convidence to do it. To My parents not just buying me every shit was one of the best educational things they ever did (and they did a lot of good). 450 USD is a lot of money for any bag, the only kind where this kind of money makes sense is specialized hiking gear (if you hike enough to justify the expense). But sometimes not spending 450 USD on a bag is the lesson you need to teach your kid.

Doxin 3y ago

> I had a $60-in-1995 northface backpack that lasted through hauling 5+ periods of textbooks every day Mine did that, and has since been lying out in the rain in the back yard holding firewood. It's a decade+ later and the thing is still perfectly fine other than being a bit dirty. Bet a good wash would get it back to being perfectly usable as a backpack.

rascul 3y ago

> Lots of kids got by with a single basic $25 Jansport. Those zippers never lasted long for me.

hnbear 3y ago

My kids carry a ton of books, I'm a large guy and find their bags weigh a ton, it's awful for my kids. I have a 5'3 100' daughter and her bag weighs a significant portion of her own weight. And their Chromebooks are not the tiny svelte high end ones. They're the chunky cheap and heavy ones too. And they're Middleschool, so can't leave them in one classroom, they get toted around, and back to home for homework every day.

rokkitmensch 3y ago

Three cheers for the Jansport!

alpple 3y ago
I buy Jansport because the zippers never break.
- tharkun__ 3y ago
  YKK zippers?

wraptile 3y ago

I enjoyed the article but like much of online content about Japan it comes off like obsessive fan service. Can you imagine carrying 1-2kg empty backpack with you every day? Just because something took long to make doesn't mean it's superior in production or quality or even perception. It's pretty, fashionable and the tradition is wholesome but that's where it ends. I got a free backpack with my new Thinkpad laptop recently. It's light, well designed, mass produced, easy to personalize - would take this over the 450$ school bags any time of the year.

anigbrowl 3y ago
I can imagine because I did it. Many kids might learn out of Chromebooks in the US, but textbooks and copybooks continue to have value for many people, and don't depend on security patches or constant charging. For years I carried 6-7kg of books up and down steep hills for a mile each day, rain or shine. While I'm also a big fan of modern backpacks, purpose built ones designed to last have their own value.
JohnBooty 3y ago
I got a free backpack with my new Thinkpad laptop recently. It's light, well designed, mass produced, easy to personalize - would take this over the 450$ school bags any time of the year. Just to be clear: you're using your freebie bag to carry a laptop and not 6kg/13lb of schoolbooks, correct? Something tells me the answer is "yes" which kind of makes me wonder why you're mentioning it Do you also drive around in a compact car and think "man this is so much better than a school bus" and pat yourself on the back every time you see a school bus
- wraptile 3y ago
  I'm confused how is that relevant what's being carried in it? in fact the flexible synthethic backpack molds much better to variable-sized objects you'd put in it rather than giant square leather bucket.
  - nephanth 3y ago

paxys 3y ago

The moment you add an aspect of culture and social pressure all economics goes out of the window. The bags cost $450 because it is the expectation that grandparents will buy an expensive school bag for their grandkids, that's it. Everything else ("it's handcrafted!", "it has 200 parts!", "it's durable") is reverse justification from there. It's the same as trying to figure out why a tiny piece of abundant rock costs thousands of dollars when sold as an "engagement ring".

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
> Everything else ("it's handcrafted!", "it's durable!") is a reverse justification from there. Thanks for this, exactly. It's the same thing with designer bags. After the rise of "superfake" luxury bags that cost literally a tenth of the real thing, I remember reading some blogs trying to argue why people should buy authentic, basing it on BS "handcrafted quality!" reasons (the reason they were called "superfakes" in the first place is because the quality was basically as good as the original). Sure, some of the reasons were actually true (it does cost a lot more to pay workers in France compared to China), but any rationale besides "I want other people to know I spent a lot of money on a bag" is just post hoc rationalization.
- selcuka 3y ago
  > Sure, some of the reasons were actually true (it does cost a lot more to pay workers in France compared to China) Even that, is not a problem that the consumer has to solve if the superfakes can attain the same quality using cheaper labour. In that case supporting local jobs could be a justification, not quality (again, assuming that the quality is the same).
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    Or better yet something without any fake logos whatsoever that is even higher quality than the 'real' thing. e.g. Even Louis Vuitton for their most expensive bags doesn't use the absolute highest quality leather, so there's room for improvement.
- 3y ago

addicted 3y ago

The article doesn’t try to do that at all. It just points out that these bags do need to last 6 years so they aren’t throwaway items. In fact, towards the end it points to how some schools are managing to achieve the same with $60 bags “ran-bags”. I think you’re reading too much into it if you think the article is trying to justify the cost. It’s trying to explain the cost, which is driven by the fact that these are hand made and have a ton of parts and also need to last many years.

ummonk 3y ago

The article seems to be aware of the fact that plastic backpacks can be durable too: "Some schools in Shimane prefecture have moved to city-provided lightweight nylon backpacks called ran-bags (yeah, don’t ask me how they name things in Japan). Unlike the randoseru, these cost a much more affordable 8,000 yen (57 USD), are lighter, and just as durable."

dmamills 3y ago

> What am I missing? Likely a disrespect for a living wage for a common craftsman, and a misunderstanding of what quality goods actually are. Certainly a lot of kids here survived on cheap $25 jansports, but did the people making them?

kstrauser 3y ago
It's not my moral duty to keep the makers of expensive bags employed. I mean, I do that anyway as a hobby, but I don't owe it to anyone.
- 2muchcoffeeman 3y ago
  But maybe the Japanese value some of their traditions and want to keep them alive. There’s nothing wrong with that either.
  - kstrauser 3y ago
    No, there's nothing wrong with that at all! However, that works both ways. It's wrong to say someone is "disrespectful" and "misunderstanding quality goods" because they don't want to get their kid a $450 bag instead of a cheaper, still-durable one.
- dmamills 3y ago
  Certainly not, and I don't mean to speak for you. But lets just say that I exist within the FANG dystopia where at any moment I can be wrangled into a meeting with a half dozen people, that if you actually consider the salaries, headcount, and time, racks up to hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars burned. For the takeaway that the modal should be fullscreen, or that we are dramatically adjusting our "design system", or whatever may have been so mission critical. Real tangible goods. But perhaps what I do is worth more, I mean, we are talkin' computers here! we are the true craftsmen!
dimmke 3y ago
Man I'm kind of a bag snob but even pricier brands that differentiate on quality and worker wages are not $400. I got a Tom Bihn Synapse backpack for around $200 in 2017 that I've traveled to many countries with and has been through I think way more than a kid going to elementary school. It's still going strong today. It was made in a US factory with workers being paid good wages. $400 is a luxury/captive audience/conspicuous consumption price point.

guessmyname 3y ago

Curious coincidence, I bought a randoseru (ランドセル) [1][2][3] early this morning and complained to my wife all the way to the store. She doesn’t want our children to look different at school. They are already different enough for being hāfu [4] and she doesn’t want to traumatize them even more. The bags are stiff and, in my eyes, quite ugly, and children are supposed to carry several books every day, good exercise but there are much better alternatives. Schools are just too bully to let anyone use a different style. As the saying goes → 出る杭は打たれる “The stake that sticks out will be driven down.” [1] https://tsuchiya-randoseru.jp https://tsuchiya-randoseru.jp [2] https://www.seiban.co.jp https://www.seiban.co.jp [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randoseru https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randoseru [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hāfu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hāfu

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bradknowles 3y ago
That saying is also known as "Tall Poppy Syndrome".
JohnBooty 3y ago
This may well be for the best. It's good to fight against bad traditions, but don't use your kids as the battlefield. Being forced by their parents to be "different" can really make a kids' life into hell.
new299 3y ago
They also break... ours lasted 2 years and then one of the rivets popped out. Generally I believe you are allowed to use a different bag, it's just... uncommon.
- nephanth 3y ago
  Curiosity: do they have warranty (for how long?)? Does the manufacturer take them back and perform repairs?

jerlam 3y ago

I'll hazard a guess - Japan is a walking society, and these backpacks are being worn every day, laden with books, back and forth from home to school, or on buses or the subway. Americans generally get driven to school. The backpack is worn only between classes at school and then moved from car trunk to home, not worn during those times. I personally wore out a $100 Eddie Bauer backpack every other year or so during middle/high school. I walked to school every day for over a mile, rain or shine. The zippers would completely fail, or the shoulder straps would detach. Eddie Bauer had a lifetime warranty so they replaced the backpacks without question.

maxglute 3y ago
I'm guessing when you have a $450 back pack you're also taught to take care of it. A zipperless buckle/draw string bag with performance fabrics would probably be just as durable as these bags. And I'm not convinced these bags are provide buyitforlife value since a lot of videos show old bags getting repaired/restored which considering the materials and construction involved, probably cost as much as a new bag. The manufacturers has a section on leather care and maintenance when alternative is to throw a fabric bag in the wash.
kasey_junk 3y ago
My kid has been using the same $100 bag for his entire school career. He’s in 5th grade and walks to school over a mile 90% of the year. In a northern climate. That bag looks like it will last another 5-10 years. Frankly, his classmates have cheaper bags with similar outcomes so I doubt price is highly correlated with performance past a certain price point.
- JohnBooty 3y ago
  When I was in school in the 80s-90s I pretty much nevvvverrrr saw kids reusing bags for multiple years. I think cheap bags were just crappier back then But even the Jansports seemed to get replaced. I think kids were just rougher on their bags back then. I remember my bags absolutely bulging with 4-5 big hardbound textbooks. Don't see that much any more.

GuB-42 3y ago

> Today, kids in the U.S. don't even tote many (or any) books, most of the content and schoolwork takes place on a lightweight Chromebook that stays in the classroom. Not in Japan, according to the article.

option 3y ago

"most of the content and schoolwork takes place on a lightweight Chromebook that stays in the classroom" - a disastrous mistake.

soultrees 3y ago

I’m with you on that. I’ve had a north face bag for almost 20 years (and it looks like it!) but it’s still strong as can be. The unfortunate thing is I was in the market for a new bag and went to the north face store of course and the only bag they had in the whole store was some shoestring style bag. Quite disappointing to see north face forget their roots.

selcuka 3y ago

> The article tries to articulate the value add through attention to detail in manufacturing "so the bags survive 6 years of rough and tumble" I don't think it does. The emphasis is on being a hand crafted item: > A randoseru can have up to 200 die cut parts and polyurethane back plates, and are mostly assembled by hand, making it an expensive item to produce. It even says that cheaper bags are even better: > Unlike the randoseru, these cost a much more affordable 8,000 yen (57 USD), are lighter, and just as durable.

Rudism 3y ago

> Today, kids in the U.S. don't even tote many (or any) books, most of the content and schoolwork takes place on a lightweight Chromebook that stays in the classroom. This may be a regional thing, because my kids have to lug heavier loads back and forth to school every day than I ever had to when I was a kid, and that's on top of their Chromebooks and sometimes an instrument for band. They also don't get lockers big enough to store anything substantial so they've got to carry everything all the time. We pretty much go through a new backpack each year for each kid because they get so worn down from having their capacity continuously stretched to the limit.

atoav 3y ago

Also, you add your kid to Club 450 USD-schoolbag. That can be good or bad, as the other kids in that club may or may not be assholes and your kid may or may not want to be in that club. Does your kid even want to be the kid with the 450 USD school bag? I came from a family that could easily have afforded the 450 USD school bag. But that would have been ridiculous to me. If you are rich and want to teach your kid to treat money so they can survive without inheritance, you definitely should do the opposite of buying them the 450 USD school bag. A lot about a good person is about valuing the right things the right amount. School bags are cool, but bad ones are not that much worse than 450 USD ones. As someone coming from one of the richer families in my schools I always was the guy using what was there. My brothers old bag, some rucksack that wasn't in use anymore, a shopping bag. I certainly never looked rich. If I wanted anything more I had to buy it using my own money, and that was slimmer than the money of some of my poorer peers. If I made my case well and long enough in front of my parents they would support what I was trying to get with a fraction of their money. And there was always birthdays/christmas. I was one of the few kids in school not playing the game of defining yourself via branded cloths and I had a convinced stand on that. Nobody that I truly cared about gave a damn about this anyways, quite the opposite: Many had respect for me not playing these games and having the convidence to do it. To My parents not just buying me every shit was one of the best educational things they ever did (and they did a lot of good). 450 USD is a lot of money for any bag, the only kind where this kind of money makes sense is specialized hiking gear (if you hike enough to justify the expense). But sometimes not spending 450 USD on a bag is the lesson you need to teach your kid.