6 ms·

Is This How Amazon Ends?

55 points by rokkitmensch 3y ago

ChrisArchitect 3y ago
Please fix the link: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/12/american-amazon-consumers-shein-temu/676339/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/12/ameri...
neonate 3y ago
https://archive.md/q5V17 https://archive.md/q5V17
local_crmdgeon 3y ago
Amazon doesn’t make money from the website, so no, this isnt how it ends. Maybe this is how the end of the beginning of Amazon looks
add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
Twitter and Reddit showed in 2023 that there's a size you can reach after which you can ramp up the enshittification past the point once thought possible and only a small number will leave. Amazon has sucked for a long time but it has runway to keep going, it will take a generation or longer for something as big as Amazon to "end."
- frognumber 3y ago
  Indeed. Friendster and Yahoo too. Not to mention Altavista. And Myspace. In the past 3 years, Amazon's brand went from gold to gutter trash. That's something which took 2+ decades to build up. User drain will follow. This would be a good time to build the next Amazon, if someone has a few $B to spare. Basically, just do the same thing Amazon did through 2020, only more quickly, cheaply, and efficiently the second time around without legacy code / contracts / employees / etc.
  - toasterlovin 3y ago
    The thing you’re missing is that the ecosystem of bad actors that has grown up with Amazon have already infested all the other online marketplaces. There is no going back to the before times.
    - frognumber 3y ago
      I think one mistake is trying to be a marketplace, rather than a reseller. If an Amazon replacement (A Inc) is shipping a 3M product, it should go directly from 3M to an A warehouse, and from there, to me. The supply chain should be trusted. I don't think A should try to be a marketplace where anyone can go in, and sell "3M" products which then get comingled. If a vendor wants to sell on A, someone from A should, at the very least, have a conversation with them, look up their corporate registration, etc., and make sure everything is legit. If there is a report of a scam, A should look into it every time. I think this is really where Amazon fell apart. Scammers should not get away with it. Right now, if I get scammed, those same scammers keep selling, even under the same name. Pricing should be set not to be the lowest-cost vendor, but the lowest-cost vendor _with reasonable support_, including and especially investigating scams. The reason to look into a scam isn't to support me, but to avoid needing to support the next thousand people, and the reputation harm that comes with that. Scams and other issues should not have costs externalized to the customer. That sets internal incentives right. Amazon did this adequately well pre-covid, and most online stores (which is not the same as marketplaces) don't have the same set of problems. Amazon has drifted from being a low-cost / high-service / good logistics competitor to Target, Walmart, etc. to being a high-cost competitor to eBay and Aliexpress.
  - okaram 3y ago
    Yeah, just do the same Mike Tyson did, but be faster, hit harder and be more aggressive :)
88913527 3y ago
It works because they have AWS. If the entirety of the business was only the consumer site, it's looking more and more like Wish with each passing day.
- missedthecue 3y ago
  What's an alternative to Amazon? eBay is worse. Walmart.com has the same problem with third party vendors. There are few other "buy anything" webstores. I also noticed during some Christmas shopping that buying from Amazon was actually cheaper than the actual brand sites themselves, in particular, adidas shoes and a sodastream were cheaper on Amazon than on sodastream and adidas dot com. Exact same products. I don't know why. Also, Wish takes 40 days to ship. Ebay and other sites take 4 days. If I order something from Amazon right now I'll literally have it in 4 hours. Doesn't matter for all purchases but it's so convenient.
  - nine_zeros 3y ago
    I have used Target and Costco shipping to great effect.
    - CharlesW 3y ago
      Retailers like B&H and Best Buy have worked great for me. Additionally, it’s become much easier to buy direct as Amazon’s quality as a retailer has degraded.
  - toasterlovin 3y ago
    It’s like the Churchill quip about democracy: Amazon is the worst online retailer, except for all the others.
  - xrd 3y ago
    I disagree. eBay isn't great, but the quality of goods feels higher than on Amazon. At least the brands are known to me and have a history. Amazon is now just a front for cheap junk from a revolving door of manufacturers who look to me like they are avoiding scrutiny.
grzm 3y ago
Original post: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/12/american-amazon-consumers-shein-temu/676339/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/12/ameri...
silisili 3y ago
I get the idea, but don't consider Temu or Wish exactly competitors. Having tried both, both seem to have a problem with misrepresentation - showing something that leads you to believe the product is much better or especially larger than it really is. I'm not saying that doesn't occur on Amazon, but hasn't in my shopping experiences. Temu and Wish may have completely fine items, also, but the one experience I had with each soured me from trying again.
tracer4201 3y ago
Amazon is less of a storefront and more of a logistics business. If Temu or anyone else seriously offered competition to take Amazon’s sales, I imagine they’d just pivot to offering Temu delivery. Amazons core model is to try a million different things and see what sticks. That’s why they’re horrible at some things, and “ok” at others. They never really double down and deliver a truly amazing experience. The UI is so so. There are ads everywhere. Their electronic devices are pretty third rate toys to give to your 8 year old instead of a more expensive iPad. Even Prime Video mostly looks like shit compared to Netflix, though they do end up copying their interface.
4death4 3y ago
I have largely curtailed my Amazon shopping because of all the cheap crap. I now only buy something on Amazon if I know exactly which product I intend to buy. I don't think Amazon is existentially threatened. I still prefer Amazon's reliable shipping. But a niche has definitely opened up where having good taste makers can be a powerful product differentiator. If someone managed to combine Wire Cutter reviews with Amazon's reliable shipping, that would be a powerful product.
- Remnant44 3y ago
  Surprisingly, this is one of the value propositions of Costco! Of course, the first thing they're known for is letting you buy comically huge volumes of everyday items. But one of the reasons that they actually have a cult following is that their corporate buyers are actually incredibly good at finding interesting items and offering them at a good price. Browsing Costco essentially becomes a curated tour of what's new in the land of food, gadgets, etc. All backed by an extremely consumer friendly set of policies allowing returns etc, which minimizes your risk.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Costco is amazing but their ecomm experience leaves a bit to be desired.
    - pkulak 3y ago
      How can anything be worse than their in-store experience?
      - Larrikin 3y ago
        What is actually bad about their in store experience? I don't see how it could improved other than their awful push for self check out, but that's affecting all retailers.
        mhdhn 3y ago
qgin 3y ago
It takes 2-3 weeks to get products from Temu. It takes 1-2 days to get products from Amazon.
- anonymouswacker 3y ago
  Amazon has a 30 day return policy. Temu has a 90 day return policy. And Temu is generally cheaper.
  - reaperman 3y ago
    Temu’s return window also starts from day of delivery.
up2isomorphism 3y ago
"Over time, though, Amazon’s Americanness has begun to slip" - This is laughable. How much "americanness" can it be really, if the production of these things are since long time go from overseas, particularly China? If there are anything "american" in this process, it is actually Amazon's fast shipping and returning policy that somewhat differentiates. So that "slip" already happened decades ago and has nothing to do with Amazon really.
esel2k 3y ago
I am from Switzerland and we had for years a home-grown competitor called galaxus/digitec which basically did the same as amazon just much better without the cheap crap. And it is flourishing. It has fast shipping, easy return, amazing UI and competitive prices. They even included statistics on return and warranty they gathered. To me when I started buying stuff at amazon and then a package comes 3 weeks later from china (looking like aliexpress) I was so pissed. Only if I truly know what I buy and it’s the cheapest I buy on Amazon, else no. It could be its end and a good way for a healthy competition to come in.
pkulak 3y ago
Am I the only one for whom Amazon is working great? I order home supplies, some electronics like flash drives, just built a whole PC, etc.
MagicMoonlight 3y ago
I can’t really trust it anymore. If you don’t know what you want with outside information, you’ll be defrauded. Other retailers are not that far off on shipping so it’s only really price that’s letting them keep my custom.

55 points by rokkitmensch 3y ago

Please fix the link: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/12/american-amazon-consumers-shein-temu/676339/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/12/ameri...

neonate 3y ago

https://archive.md/q5V17 https://archive.md/q5V17

local_crmdgeon 3y ago

Amazon doesn’t make money from the website, so no, this isnt how it ends. Maybe this is how the end of the beginning of Amazon looks

add-sub-mul-div 3y ago

Twitter and Reddit showed in 2023 that there's a size you can reach after which you can ramp up the enshittification past the point once thought possible and only a small number will leave. Amazon has sucked for a long time but it has runway to keep going, it will take a generation or longer for something as big as Amazon to "end."

frognumber 3y ago
Indeed. Friendster and Yahoo too. Not to mention Altavista. And Myspace. In the past 3 years, Amazon's brand went from gold to gutter trash. That's something which took 2+ decades to build up. User drain will follow. This would be a good time to build the next Amazon, if someone has a few $B to spare. Basically, just do the same thing Amazon did through 2020, only more quickly, cheaply, and efficiently the second time around without legacy code / contracts / employees / etc.
- toasterlovin 3y ago
  The thing you’re missing is that the ecosystem of bad actors that has grown up with Amazon have already infested all the other online marketplaces. There is no going back to the before times.
  - frognumber 3y ago
    I think one mistake is trying to be a marketplace, rather than a reseller. If an Amazon replacement (A Inc) is shipping a 3M product, it should go directly from 3M to an A warehouse, and from there, to me. The supply chain should be trusted. I don't think A should try to be a marketplace where anyone can go in, and sell "3M" products which then get comingled. If a vendor wants to sell on A, someone from A should, at the very least, have a conversation with them, look up their corporate registration, etc., and make sure everything is legit. If there is a report of a scam, A should look into it every time. I think this is really where Amazon fell apart. Scammers should not get away with it. Right now, if I get scammed, those same scammers keep selling, even under the same name. Pricing should be set not to be the lowest-cost vendor, but the lowest-cost vendor _with reasonable support_, including and especially investigating scams. The reason to look into a scam isn't to support me, but to avoid needing to support the next thousand people, and the reputation harm that comes with that. Scams and other issues should not have costs externalized to the customer. That sets internal incentives right. Amazon did this adequately well pre-covid, and most online stores (which is not the same as marketplaces) don't have the same set of problems. Amazon has drifted from being a low-cost / high-service / good logistics competitor to Target, Walmart, etc. to being a high-cost competitor to eBay and Aliexpress.
- okaram 3y ago
  Yeah, just do the same Mike Tyson did, but be faster, hit harder and be more aggressive :)

88913527 3y ago

It works because they have AWS. If the entirety of the business was only the consumer site, it's looking more and more like Wish with each passing day.

missedthecue 3y ago
What's an alternative to Amazon? eBay is worse. Walmart.com has the same problem with third party vendors. There are few other "buy anything" webstores. I also noticed during some Christmas shopping that buying from Amazon was actually cheaper than the actual brand sites themselves, in particular, adidas shoes and a sodastream were cheaper on Amazon than on sodastream and adidas dot com. Exact same products. I don't know why. Also, Wish takes 40 days to ship. Ebay and other sites take 4 days. If I order something from Amazon right now I'll literally have it in 4 hours. Doesn't matter for all purchases but it's so convenient.
- nine_zeros 3y ago
  I have used Target and Costco shipping to great effect.
  - CharlesW 3y ago
    Retailers like B&H and Best Buy have worked great for me. Additionally, it’s become much easier to buy direct as Amazon’s quality as a retailer has degraded.
- toasterlovin 3y ago
  It’s like the Churchill quip about democracy: Amazon is the worst online retailer, except for all the others.
- xrd 3y ago
  I disagree. eBay isn't great, but the quality of goods feels higher than on Amazon. At least the brands are known to me and have a history. Amazon is now just a front for cheap junk from a revolving door of manufacturers who look to me like they are avoiding scrutiny.

grzm 3y ago

Original post: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/12/american-amazon-consumers-shein-temu/676339/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/12/ameri...

silisili 3y ago

I get the idea, but don't consider Temu or Wish exactly competitors. Having tried both, both seem to have a problem with misrepresentation - showing something that leads you to believe the product is much better or especially larger than it really is. I'm not saying that doesn't occur on Amazon, but hasn't in my shopping experiences. Temu and Wish may have completely fine items, also, but the one experience I had with each soured me from trying again.

tracer4201 3y ago

Amazon is less of a storefront and more of a logistics business. If Temu or anyone else seriously offered competition to take Amazon’s sales, I imagine they’d just pivot to offering Temu delivery. Amazons core model is to try a million different things and see what sticks. That’s why they’re horrible at some things, and “ok” at others. They never really double down and deliver a truly amazing experience. The UI is so so. There are ads everywhere. Their electronic devices are pretty third rate toys to give to your 8 year old instead of a more expensive iPad. Even Prime Video mostly looks like shit compared to Netflix, though they do end up copying their interface.

4death4 3y ago

I have largely curtailed my Amazon shopping because of all the cheap crap. I now only buy something on Amazon if I know exactly which product I intend to buy. I don't think Amazon is existentially threatened. I still prefer Amazon's reliable shipping. But a niche has definitely opened up where having good taste makers can be a powerful product differentiator. If someone managed to combine Wire Cutter reviews with Amazon's reliable shipping, that would be a powerful product.

Remnant44 3y ago
Surprisingly, this is one of the value propositions of Costco! Of course, the first thing they're known for is letting you buy comically huge volumes of everyday items. But one of the reasons that they actually have a cult following is that their corporate buyers are actually incredibly good at finding interesting items and offering them at a good price. Browsing Costco essentially becomes a curated tour of what's new in the land of food, gadgets, etc. All backed by an extremely consumer friendly set of policies allowing returns etc, which minimizes your risk.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Costco is amazing but their ecomm experience leaves a bit to be desired.
  - pkulak 3y ago
    How can anything be worse than their in-store experience?
    - Larrikin 3y ago
      What is actually bad about their in store experience? I don't see how it could improved other than their awful push for self check out, but that's affecting all retailers.
      - mhdhn 3y ago

qgin 3y ago

It takes 2-3 weeks to get products from Temu. It takes 1-2 days to get products from Amazon.

anonymouswacker 3y ago
Amazon has a 30 day return policy. Temu has a 90 day return policy. And Temu is generally cheaper.
- reaperman 3y ago
  Temu’s return window also starts from day of delivery.

up2isomorphism 3y ago

"Over time, though, Amazon’s Americanness has begun to slip" - This is laughable. How much "americanness" can it be really, if the production of these things are since long time go from overseas, particularly China? If there are anything "american" in this process, it is actually Amazon's fast shipping and returning policy that somewhat differentiates. So that "slip" already happened decades ago and has nothing to do with Amazon really.

esel2k 3y ago

I am from Switzerland and we had for years a home-grown competitor called galaxus/digitec which basically did the same as amazon just much better without the cheap crap. And it is flourishing. It has fast shipping, easy return, amazing UI and competitive prices. They even included statistics on return and warranty they gathered. To me when I started buying stuff at amazon and then a package comes 3 weeks later from china (looking like aliexpress) I was so pissed. Only if I truly know what I buy and it’s the cheapest I buy on Amazon, else no. It could be its end and a good way for a healthy competition to come in.

pkulak 3y ago

Am I the only one for whom Amazon is working great? I order home supplies, some electronics like flash drives, just built a whole PC, etc.

MagicMoonlight 3y ago

I can’t really trust it anymore. If you don’t know what you want with outside information, you’ll be defrauded. Other retailers are not that far off on shipping so it’s only really price that’s letting them keep my custom.