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Most supplements are garbage. Since they don't actually work, most people would never know if you replaced their magnesium or calcium supplement with chalk. Som

Most supplements are garbage. Since they don't actually work, most people would never know if you replaced their magnesium or calcium supplement with chalk. Some supplements do work, but since they're not regulated, they're drowned out by nonsense and noise. OK, so you don't want to be a rube?...you do your research and then piece of shit fitness influencers tell you "ohh...that vitamin you bought form Walgreens or Costco didn't work?...of course not, you need to buy mine...it's CHELATED!!!!! thus is more BIOAVAILBLE...or some other random scientific work which is either incorrectly used or outright fraudulent. Half of my family spends a huge fortune on supplements, most of which are placebos. If you're young, you may not understand, but for us over 40, life starts to suck, physically. When you're young, your body is very fault-tolerant...have 6 beers and a cheeseburger for supper every day for a week?...nothing a few tums can't fix. Now that I'm over 40, I do everything right (daily exercise, eat healthy, get sleep, etc) and still feel like shit most of the day....same with most my age...thus we're desperate for anything that will make us feel better and not have any side effects that make things worse. Supplements are the dream and an age-old scam. Maybe punishing big retailers who tolerate fraud will not only reduce false claims, but make the public more aware that so called health experts online are ignorant, scammers, or both.

ta988 3y ago
If you replace the Calcium with chalk you would still have a source of calcium so it wouldn't be that bad :D
- achanda358 3y ago
  With different bioavailability
- dehrmann 3y ago
  It's better than that. According to Wikipedia > Chalk is typically almost pure calcite, CaCO3, with just 2% to 4% of other minerals The supplement I just looked up uses Calcium Carbonate. That could just be purified chalk and be in compliance with the FDA. In fact, it probably is just that.
  - beambot 3y ago
    Animals eat naturally-occurring chalk (and other substances) to regulate key minerals. It's called geophagia.
    - dehrmann 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_lick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_lick
    - FredPret 3y ago
      > geophagia Animals are eating the world
Wowfunhappy 3y ago
> Most supplements are garbage. Since they don't actually work, most people would never know if you replaced their magnesium or calcium supplement with chalk. Whether or not that's true, if you replaced someone's magnesium supplement with viagra, you could seriously hurt them. >> FDA confirmed through laboratory analyses that the [...] products, purchased on www.amazon.com, contained [...] the active ingredients in the FDA-approved prescription drugs Viagra and Cialis, respectively, used to treat erectile dysfunction (ED). These undeclared ingredients may interact with nitrates found in some prescription drugs, such as nitroglycerin, and may lower blood pressure to dangerous levels.
- epmaybe 3y ago
  holy crap, that’s insane. You don’t just accidentally add sildenafil or tadalafil to your supplements. Unless the FDA is misidentifying compounds present in the herbs in these supplements, which seems unlikely but I’m no pharmacology expert.
  - tonyarkles 3y ago
    Yeah, I don't think "accidentally" is something that happened here. What's the best way to make your "all-natural Viagra" actually work? Make it with real Viagra.
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      I’d be surprised if the buyers were expecting any different. With the amount of mislabelled product out there in circulation (and presumably a general lack of harm), does it still make sense to require a prescription?
      - tonyarkles 3y ago
        I'm personally pretty torn on that. On the one hand I agree with you, especially from a harm-reduction perspective (e.g. people who are on blood pressure medication ordering "natural" Viagra because Viagra's contra-indicated with the medication they're on, not realizing that they're getting something that could cause a very bad situation). On the other hand, requiring a prescription does mean that a physician can ask that question ("are you on blood pressure medication?") and counsel the patient to look at different options instead. I mean, even though 50% of these are intentional overdoses... the other 50% probably didn't know they were doing something that was going to destroy their liver: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK441917/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK441917/
exegete 3y ago
>Now that I'm over 40, I do everything right (daily exercise, eat healthy, get sleep, etc) and still feel like shit most of the day....same with most my age... I’m nearing 40. Are you sure it’s normal to feel terrible most of the day when eating right, exercising, and getting enough sleep? This doesn’t sound normal to me.
- thechao 3y ago
  I'm 45, walk, weight lift, eat well, sleep well, and feel better than I ever have. My dad says he didn't start to "feel" his age until 80: it may just be genetics?
- laweijfmvo 3y ago
  Could be genetics, could be low T, could be depression, could be some other uncovered issue. Should probably discuss this with their doctor.
- 1920musicman 3y ago
  It's not normal. None of my over 40 friends have the same experience. And in general, I doubt that turning 40 is a clear biological threshold regardless of one's lifestyle, diet, fitness level, etc.
- sigmoid10 3y ago
  Yeah, there's something else going on. If you don't have permanent damage from some injury or disease, you shouldn't feel like 60+ if you barely hit 40. Maybe it's related to low testosterone, but even for that 40 is early.
- jml78 3y ago
  I am an inactive, 45 year old software developer. Can I overdo things and feel like shit? Yeah but mostly I feel great. My knees are kind messed up but that is from running 500 miles every summer during middle school and high school. So no, being in your 40s shouldn’t mean feeling like shit. As to the topic at hand, I use two supplements in addition to prescription blood pressure medications. I take my blood pressure 3 times daily. I can see in the cold hard numbers if I forget to take them.
malfist 3y ago
It's funny you mention chelation. The most common method (cheapest) of chelating some metal is with EDTA, which is such a strong bond that it makes it completely bio-unavailable. In fact, if your body was somehow able to break the bond and absorb the metal ion, EDTA would happily go along and find some other metal in your body to bind to. You literally take EDTA for lead poisoning, but it'll happily take calcium, copper and iron out of your body while doing it, it doesn't give a damn.
hammock 3y ago
> most people would never know if you replaced their magnesium or calcium supplement with chalk. Minerals and vitamins come from USP, which is tested and regulated and everyone in the industry gets the same quality (regardless of what they claim). It is what they say it is, if it’s USP. Where is gets sketchy quickly is all the other stuff, like plant extracts etc
- nick__m 3y ago
  USP is an old compendium, it is not an organization! it means United States Pharmacopeia, there is an organization that manages the trademark but they do not produce pharmaceutical, nor do they enforce quality, the enforcement is delegated to the FDA.
phkahler 3y ago
I cured my asthma with magnesium and iodine ssupplements. While I agree with you that there are false claims out there, I have data to show stuff worked for me. YMMV of course.
justinator 3y ago
same with most my age...thus we're desperate for anything that will make us feel better and not have any side effects that make things worse. The issue is that a chronic mistreatment of your body (similar to what you describe). The solution is a chronic loving of your body. Best time to start was 20 years ago. Second best time is today. I wish you luck and I can tell you: it doesn't have to be the way you describe, but it WILL take patience and a life-long commitment. And yeah: forget supplements. Focus on good food.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
MarCylinder 3y ago
Chelated supplements are, generally, more bioavailable than their oxidized counterparts because they are bound to nutrients for which you have transporters. Like amino acids, for instance. Supplements are absolutely regulated. To say otherwise is just ignorant of the law. Those regulations are not well enforced. That is the fault of the US justice department and Congress. The FDA is under-equipped in the way of funding to enforce regulations. And they're dependent on the justice department to actually follow through on enforcement. The justice department is only really interested in enforcement action where harm has occurred. Amazon can do better, but why are we exclusively placing the onus on them to enforce federal law? Why is the FDA not going after the brands making and selling this shit?
hammock 3y ago
> Most supplements are garbage… > My family spends a huge fortune on supplements, most of which are placebos Unless you are just using “most” as a weasel word to hedge the chance that you might be wrong, using “most” would imply that you are aware of some supplements that aren’t frauds. Can you share them?
dec0dedab0de 3y ago
Have you considered that your expectations of supplements not working have caused a reverse placebo effect? I don’t take many supplements but they all work for their intended purpose. creatine for muscle recovery and making me a tiny bit stronger ZMA (zinc, magnesium, b6). for deeper sleep and overcoming multiday hangovers melatonin for vivid dreams and waking up feeling more refreshed. b12/d3 for energy i don’t take them all every day, but they have consistently noticeable effects and have improved my quality of life. i also just use the store brands from major retailers, and have low expectations. More importantly when I was in my late thirties I also thought feeling shitty was just part of getting older, but it turned out I had cancer. talk to a doctor.

ta988 3y ago

If you replace the Calcium with chalk you would still have a source of calcium so it wouldn't be that bad :D

achanda358 3y ago
With different bioavailability
dehrmann 3y ago
It's better than that. According to Wikipedia > Chalk is typically almost pure calcite, CaCO3, with just 2% to 4% of other minerals The supplement I just looked up uses Calcium Carbonate. That could just be purified chalk and be in compliance with the FDA. In fact, it probably is just that.
- beambot 3y ago
  Animals eat naturally-occurring chalk (and other substances) to regulate key minerals. It's called geophagia.
  - dehrmann 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_lick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_lick
  - FredPret 3y ago
    > geophagia Animals are eating the world

Wowfunhappy 3y ago

> Most supplements are garbage. Since they don't actually work, most people would never know if you replaced their magnesium or calcium supplement with chalk. Whether or not that's true, if you replaced someone's magnesium supplement with viagra, you could seriously hurt them. >> FDA confirmed through laboratory analyses that the [...] products, purchased on www.amazon.com, contained [...] the active ingredients in the FDA-approved prescription drugs Viagra and Cialis, respectively, used to treat erectile dysfunction (ED). These undeclared ingredients may interact with nitrates found in some prescription drugs, such as nitroglycerin, and may lower blood pressure to dangerous levels.

epmaybe 3y ago
holy crap, that’s insane. You don’t just accidentally add sildenafil or tadalafil to your supplements. Unless the FDA is misidentifying compounds present in the herbs in these supplements, which seems unlikely but I’m no pharmacology expert.
- tonyarkles 3y ago
  Yeah, I don't think "accidentally" is something that happened here. What's the best way to make your "all-natural Viagra" actually work? Make it with real Viagra.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    I’d be surprised if the buyers were expecting any different. With the amount of mislabelled product out there in circulation (and presumably a general lack of harm), does it still make sense to require a prescription?
    - tonyarkles 3y ago
      I'm personally pretty torn on that. On the one hand I agree with you, especially from a harm-reduction perspective (e.g. people who are on blood pressure medication ordering "natural" Viagra because Viagra's contra-indicated with the medication they're on, not realizing that they're getting something that could cause a very bad situation). On the other hand, requiring a prescription does mean that a physician can ask that question ("are you on blood pressure medication?") and counsel the patient to look at different options instead. I mean, even though 50% of these are intentional overdoses... the other 50% probably didn't know they were doing something that was going to destroy their liver: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK441917/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK441917/

exegete 3y ago

>Now that I'm over 40, I do everything right (daily exercise, eat healthy, get sleep, etc) and still feel like shit most of the day....same with most my age... I’m nearing 40. Are you sure it’s normal to feel terrible most of the day when eating right, exercising, and getting enough sleep? This doesn’t sound normal to me.

thechao 3y ago
I'm 45, walk, weight lift, eat well, sleep well, and feel better than I ever have. My dad says he didn't start to "feel" his age until 80: it may just be genetics?
laweijfmvo 3y ago
Could be genetics, could be low T, could be depression, could be some other uncovered issue. Should probably discuss this with their doctor.
1920musicman 3y ago
It's not normal. None of my over 40 friends have the same experience. And in general, I doubt that turning 40 is a clear biological threshold regardless of one's lifestyle, diet, fitness level, etc.
sigmoid10 3y ago
Yeah, there's something else going on. If you don't have permanent damage from some injury or disease, you shouldn't feel like 60+ if you barely hit 40. Maybe it's related to low testosterone, but even for that 40 is early.
jml78 3y ago
I am an inactive, 45 year old software developer. Can I overdo things and feel like shit? Yeah but mostly I feel great. My knees are kind messed up but that is from running 500 miles every summer during middle school and high school. So no, being in your 40s shouldn’t mean feeling like shit. As to the topic at hand, I use two supplements in addition to prescription blood pressure medications. I take my blood pressure 3 times daily. I can see in the cold hard numbers if I forget to take them.

malfist 3y ago

It's funny you mention chelation. The most common method (cheapest) of chelating some metal is with EDTA, which is such a strong bond that it makes it completely bio-unavailable. In fact, if your body was somehow able to break the bond and absorb the metal ion, EDTA would happily go along and find some other metal in your body to bind to. You literally take EDTA for lead poisoning, but it'll happily take calcium, copper and iron out of your body while doing it, it doesn't give a damn.

hammock 3y ago

> most people would never know if you replaced their magnesium or calcium supplement with chalk. Minerals and vitamins come from USP, which is tested and regulated and everyone in the industry gets the same quality (regardless of what they claim). It is what they say it is, if it’s USP. Where is gets sketchy quickly is all the other stuff, like plant extracts etc

nick__m 3y ago
USP is an old compendium, it is not an organization! it means United States Pharmacopeia, there is an organization that manages the trademark but they do not produce pharmaceutical, nor do they enforce quality, the enforcement is delegated to the FDA.

phkahler 3y ago

I cured my asthma with magnesium and iodine ssupplements. While I agree with you that there are false claims out there, I have data to show stuff worked for me. YMMV of course.

justinator 3y ago

same with most my age...thus we're desperate for anything that will make us feel better and not have any side effects that make things worse. The issue is that a chronic mistreatment of your body (similar to what you describe). The solution is a chronic loving of your body. Best time to start was 20 years ago. Second best time is today. I wish you luck and I can tell you: it doesn't have to be the way you describe, but it WILL take patience and a life-long commitment. And yeah: forget supplements. Focus on good food.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

MarCylinder 3y ago

Chelated supplements are, generally, more bioavailable than their oxidized counterparts because they are bound to nutrients for which you have transporters. Like amino acids, for instance. Supplements are absolutely regulated. To say otherwise is just ignorant of the law. Those regulations are not well enforced. That is the fault of the US justice department and Congress. The FDA is under-equipped in the way of funding to enforce regulations. And they're dependent on the justice department to actually follow through on enforcement. The justice department is only really interested in enforcement action where harm has occurred. Amazon can do better, but why are we exclusively placing the onus on them to enforce federal law? Why is the FDA not going after the brands making and selling this shit?

hammock 3y ago

> Most supplements are garbage… > My family spends a huge fortune on supplements, most of which are placebos Unless you are just using “most” as a weasel word to hedge the chance that you might be wrong, using “most” would imply that you are aware of some supplements that aren’t frauds. Can you share them?

dec0dedab0de 3y ago

Have you considered that your expectations of supplements not working have caused a reverse placebo effect? I don’t take many supplements but they all work for their intended purpose. creatine for muscle recovery and making me a tiny bit stronger ZMA (zinc, magnesium, b6). for deeper sleep and overcoming multiday hangovers melatonin for vivid dreams and waking up feeling more refreshed. b12/d3 for energy i don’t take them all every day, but they have consistently noticeable effects and have improved my quality of life. i also just use the store brands from major retailers, and have low expectations. More importantly when I was in my late thirties I also thought feeling shitty was just part of getting older, but it turned out I had cancer. talk to a doctor.