4 ms·

Did you say this just to troll, or can you back up your statement with facts?

by op00to 3y ago

boomboomsubban 3y ago
As a starting place, Donald Trump is famous for it. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dozens-of-lawsuits-accuse-trump-of-not-paying-his-bills-reports-claim https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dozens-of-lawsuits-accuse-t...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ipnon 3y ago
The rule of law and civil courts specifically are much stronger in the US than PRC, although there are many ways that you can get screwed with contracts here too. A common saying is that every bankrupt contractor takes out another business.
- jdksmdbtbdnmsm 3y ago
  There is a big difference between law and "rule of law." In the US, attorneys and courts are far out of reach for unpaid contractors without wealth.
  - google234123 3y ago
    There are cheap lawyers. Small claims court is almost free
    - jdksmdbtbdnmsm 3y ago
      Small claims courts have limits often too low to justify the money and time and availability costs, which are all things that unpaid contractors without wealth do not have.
    - acdha 3y ago
      Small claims court has very low limits. Beyond that, it’s very easy for a large company to make a lawsuit cost more than it’s worth - you’re paying court costs up front, they’re going to litigate every single detail to say that you didn’t complete everything (both to lower the total and to prevent you from being able to do full time work for someone else), and delay things hoping you’ll give up or make some mistake. It’s not super common but every freelancer I know has a client from hell story. The abusive ones get pretty good at calibrating the amount they can screw someone out of while still being only marginally worth the cost and effort of suing.
uoaei 3y ago
Well for one thing, in the American system you have to bring a civil case against anyone who breaches contract, which in many cases is not worth the legal fees which means scammers know they can get away with screwing people over for just enough that they will get away with it.
- gopher_space 3y ago
  If you take out a loan instead of paying cash the bank now has a vested interest in your build and will keep an eye on contractors to an extent.
Consultant32452 3y ago
My anecdata is that I'm a contractor and customers regularly pay late, except in December. I have one customer who was 3 months late on payments at one point this year. Then in December they paid up for what they would normally have owed in January a month early to stick me with the tax bill. Every contractor I've ever talked to has similar stories and worse.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  I guess this is a fundamental different between accrual vs cash accounting. In accrual accounting, you would book the revenue when the service is provided and delaying/advancing a payment shouldn’t change the fiscal year it falls under. In Canada, most of the time you’re required to follow accrual accounting. I guess if you have the choice and expect routine delays to payments, cash accounting is the way to go.
  - borissk 3y ago
    And what if you do the work and never get payed? Sounds stupid to pay taxes over income one hasn't actually received.
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      You have allowances for doubtful accounts and/or bad debts. Also sounds stupid to game taxes by delaying/advancing payments.
- op00to 3y ago
  Do American customers pay later than Canadians? Mexican? Russians?
  - Consultant32452 3y ago
    I only work in the states, but I've had customers who were owned abroad. Basically the same behavior. I'll add one note I forgot in my OP. The bigger, richer customers are more notorious for paying late. I wouldn't say I avoid the fortune 500 type companies, but I don't go after them.
jdksmdbtbdnmsm 3y ago
>can you back up your statement with facts? Huh? My statement is the facts. What are you talking about?
- em-bee 3y ago
  ok, you are making a factual claim. what the commenter is really asking for is evidence to back up that claim.
Scoundreller 3y ago
It is a funny thing that I find in b2b vs. b2c. If I want to buy some component as a consumer, they’re going to take payment up-front or tell me to screw off if I ask for them to send first and get paid later. Meanwhile, receiving the product/service first and then net30 and such payment terms are common in North American business. I do wonder if business works the same way in other cultures or if they take the approach that consumers typically deal with.
- em-bee 3y ago
  i heard a story from chinese friends about subcontractors that the large companies in china that contract them even help them to get loans so the subcontractor can actually do their work until they will get paid, and then use the payment to pay back the loan. like payday loans at large scale.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    Selling your account receivables is a thing. Often called “factoring”. No idea how common or unusual it is for the customer to help arrange it for the supplier: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoring_(finance) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoring_(finance)
    - jdksmdbtbdnmsm 3y ago
      >Selling your account receivables is a thing. Huh? A thing? What is your point here?

Did you say this just to troll, or can you back up your statement with facts?

by op00to 3y ago

Did you say this just to troll, or can you back up your statement with facts?

As a starting place, Donald Trump is famous for it. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dozens-of-lawsuits-accuse-trump-of-not-paying-his-bills-reports-claim https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dozens-of-lawsuits-accuse-t...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ipnon 3y ago

The rule of law and civil courts specifically are much stronger in the US than PRC, although there are many ways that you can get screwed with contracts here too. A common saying is that every bankrupt contractor takes out another business.

jdksmdbtbdnmsm 3y ago
There is a big difference between law and "rule of law." In the US, attorneys and courts are far out of reach for unpaid contractors without wealth.
- google234123 3y ago
  There are cheap lawyers. Small claims court is almost free
  - jdksmdbtbdnmsm 3y ago
    Small claims courts have limits often too low to justify the money and time and availability costs, which are all things that unpaid contractors without wealth do not have.
  - acdha 3y ago
    Small claims court has very low limits. Beyond that, it’s very easy for a large company to make a lawsuit cost more than it’s worth - you’re paying court costs up front, they’re going to litigate every single detail to say that you didn’t complete everything (both to lower the total and to prevent you from being able to do full time work for someone else), and delay things hoping you’ll give up or make some mistake. It’s not super common but every freelancer I know has a client from hell story. The abusive ones get pretty good at calibrating the amount they can screw someone out of while still being only marginally worth the cost and effort of suing.

uoaei 3y ago

Well for one thing, in the American system you have to bring a civil case against anyone who breaches contract, which in many cases is not worth the legal fees which means scammers know they can get away with screwing people over for just enough that they will get away with it.

gopher_space 3y ago
If you take out a loan instead of paying cash the bank now has a vested interest in your build and will keep an eye on contractors to an extent.

Consultant32452 3y ago

My anecdata is that I'm a contractor and customers regularly pay late, except in December. I have one customer who was 3 months late on payments at one point this year. Then in December they paid up for what they would normally have owed in January a month early to stick me with the tax bill. Every contractor I've ever talked to has similar stories and worse.

Scoundreller 3y ago
I guess this is a fundamental different between accrual vs cash accounting. In accrual accounting, you would book the revenue when the service is provided and delaying/advancing a payment shouldn’t change the fiscal year it falls under. In Canada, most of the time you’re required to follow accrual accounting. I guess if you have the choice and expect routine delays to payments, cash accounting is the way to go.
- borissk 3y ago
  And what if you do the work and never get payed? Sounds stupid to pay taxes over income one hasn't actually received.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    You have allowances for doubtful accounts and/or bad debts. Also sounds stupid to game taxes by delaying/advancing payments.
op00to 3y ago
Do American customers pay later than Canadians? Mexican? Russians?
- Consultant32452 3y ago
  I only work in the states, but I've had customers who were owned abroad. Basically the same behavior. I'll add one note I forgot in my OP. The bigger, richer customers are more notorious for paying late. I wouldn't say I avoid the fortune 500 type companies, but I don't go after them.

jdksmdbtbdnmsm 3y ago

>can you back up your statement with facts? Huh? My statement is the facts. What are you talking about?

em-bee 3y ago
ok, you are making a factual claim. what the commenter is really asking for is evidence to back up that claim.

Scoundreller 3y ago

It is a funny thing that I find in b2b vs. b2c. If I want to buy some component as a consumer, they’re going to take payment up-front or tell me to screw off if I ask for them to send first and get paid later. Meanwhile, receiving the product/service first and then net30 and such payment terms are common in North American business. I do wonder if business works the same way in other cultures or if they take the approach that consumers typically deal with.

em-bee 3y ago
i heard a story from chinese friends about subcontractors that the large companies in china that contract them even help them to get loans so the subcontractor can actually do their work until they will get paid, and then use the payment to pay back the loan. like payday loans at large scale.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  Selling your account receivables is a thing. Often called “factoring”. No idea how common or unusual it is for the customer to help arrange it for the supplier: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoring_(finance) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoring_(finance)
  - jdksmdbtbdnmsm 3y ago
    >Selling your account receivables is a thing. Huh? A thing? What is your point here?