6 ms·

Do I need to get out the soldering iron again? (2018)

145 points by cwillu 3y ago

dang 3y ago
Discussed at the time: Do I really need to get out the soldering-iron again? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18640136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18640136 - Dec 2018 (417 comments)
cweagans 3y ago
> I DO NOT HAVE TO PAY A TAX TO APPLE TO LISTEN TO MY MUSIC The author paid a significant tax, as documented in their blog post: they had to try several devices and eventually *build custom hardware* to do something so simple. Yes, it’s fun. Yes, it gets the job done. No, I don’t want to do that when I just wanna listen to music. The apple tax is more than just easy access to music played through marginally higher quality DACs. It’s also a cost that I’m happy to pay to never have to do something like what the author of this article did. My time is significantly more valuable to me than ideological objections to working technology.
- slim 3y ago
  you don't even have a decent web browser on your iphone and even with all your apple tax money you can't do nothing about it
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - skydhash 3y ago
    It does everything I want. So much that I’m using the desktop version too.
    - zeta0134 3y ago
      My iPad is simply not capable of running uBlock Origin. Until this changes, switching my main mobile device to an iPhone is a complete non-option. I absolutely must be able to run software I choose, full stop.
      - cweagans 3y ago
        I choose software that runs on the devices that I don’t have to mess around with. There are plenty of options that do work across the Apple ecosystem. ublock is not the only option, nor is it necessarily the best one. The extremely minor inconvenience of finding a different adblocker is one time pain. Attempting to curate the “perfect” computing environment is pain that just doesn’t go away. I ran many different distros. I ran LFS as my daily driver for several years. I played with all of the desktop environments. What did it get me? Nothing. There is no practical value in sinking the time into that. It’s fun, sure. But I don’t get paid to have fun. My business doesn’t run on fun.
        zeta0134 3y ago
        The irritating thing is that the software I want to run works perfectly fine on my mac mini. That's in the Apple ecosystem and yet respects enough of my freedoms to not be a problem. But the iOS devices are entirely locked down. The ad blocker thing one tiny example; what I actually want to run is Real(tm) Firefox and its rich extension ecosystem. There are dozens of little accessibility enhancements I run on top of just the content blocker. The iOS versions of Firefox are heavily gimped, aren't allowed to run the Gecko rendering engine (purely because Apple said so) and can't do the things I need. My iPad basically doesn't have a good browser, just a cheap plastic imitation of the Amulet of Mozilla. All of my other devices do, so it's the odd one out. It's not just Firefox, but that's the example everyone's heard of, so it's what I tend to lead with. I'd also like to be able to run weird media software, background file syncing services that aren't iCloud, and (gasp!) retro game emulators on the devices I own. All disallowed by app store policy, and unlike Android which supports sideloading and alternate app stores, on iOS I have no recourse as an end user. So I choose not to be an end user; I won't purchase hardware that refuses to respect my wishes.
    - danhau 3y ago
      I’m in the same boat. I’m even thinking about switching to Edge on Windows machines. Stock browser are perfectly fine nowadays.
    - addicted 3y ago
      It’s funny how so many Apple users insist their Apple device does everything they want, until Apple releases a new update that does something more that other devices have had for years, and then they’re not just using it all the time but boasting about it. One of the most classic examples was Copy/Paste or Apps. I remember so many Apple users telling me that Copy/Paste was unnecessary on an iPhone or that WebApps were good enough (something I completely disagreed with) only to see them change their tune completely once Apple released those functionalities. I remember how 5G was supposed to be an albatross of a feature until Apple released their phones supporting 5G. Or how digital pens weren’t needed at all, until Apple released an iPad with a digital pen and then it was just raves about how digital pens are awesome. How can one forget larger screens! I remember how 3.5” was THE perfect phone screen size and now you can’t even buy a phone that size from Apple. Multitasking! I’ve tried switching to Android but never been successful. I simply don’t like it and enjoy iOS too much. That doesn’t mean I need to be blind to all the missing iOS functionality and pretend my I wouldnt be happier if they weren’t missing. I just find that the upsides are more than worth the downsides. That doesn’t mean I need to pretend those downsides don’t exist.
      - averageRoyalty 3y ago
        > It’s funny how so many Apple users insist their Apple device does everything they want, until Apple releases a new update that does something more that other devices have had for years, and then they’re not just using it all the time but boasting about it. Isn't that normally the case? You have a device that does X you're happy with, and they add a new feature. You didn't know how useful it would be, so you're excited and show it off. I'd imagine there are plenty of examples of his with Android, or your favourite car brand or all sorts of things.
userbinator 3y ago
But the sound quality on the laptop is just not quite up-to scratch. I think the output buffer on the amplifier is just not very good and struggles with the dynamic load of the transducers. In case anyone else runs into something similar: make sure you've plugged in the headphones to a speaker/HP jack instead of "line out", or configured the output as such, since the latter is unamplified and can make the audio sound "thin" and lacking. (On the other hand, I've had to do the opposite with some very sensitive IEMs where otherwise even the lowest volume setting would be almost painfully loud.)
smackeyacky 3y ago
I hate to say it after years of Android ownership...but just buy an iPhone.
dclowd9901 3y ago
I feel for the author when it comes to the quest for an ideal zen state with tech. It seems like you’re always making a compromise somewhere. For so long I’ve avoided emulating games because something was always fucky about it. Visuals, audio, game bugs — you name it. I recently bought a Steam Deck and outfitted it with retroarch to see if anything had changed in that world and my god everything has changed. The device effortlessly emulated games all the way up to the switch generation and they look and play beautifully. No configuration needed. It’s the experience I’ve always dreamt of with emulation and it’s a total game changer when it comes to my nerves.
snvzz 3y ago
People at the office will ask about my usb dac/amp and they don't seem to get it. Yes, these devices are needed, because the audio outputs of all sorts of devices today simply are trash. Topping DX3 Pro+[0] is my current recommendation, by the way. As for headphones, Sennheiser HD600 really are solid. 0. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-dx3-pro-review-dac-headphone-amp.27148/ https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/t...
- LanternLight83 3y ago
  I have a Topping MX3, initially loved how knob feels but it bothered me that the tactile feedback didn't actually line up with the adjustments... mostly use the remote now anyways, which is great
- m463 3y ago
  I like schiit: https://www.schiit.com https://www.schiit.com I currently use a Hel day to day: https://www.schiit.com/products/hel-plus https://www.schiit.com/products/hel-plus Lets me do work meetings with headphone+mic on one system via USB, or switch and listen to PCM audio via second input
  - snvzz 3y ago
    hel is decent and portable. If portable isn't needed, about the same money buys that topping, with digital encoder for volume, higher specs and better measurements... but no mic input.
- simondotau 3y ago
  > because the audio outputs of all sorts of devices today simply are trash As a staunch objectivist audiophile, I empathise with this view. But there's also too much of an obsession with achieving levels of dynamic range precision far in excess of the best audio recordings. Not to mention far in excess of the best human ears — let alone the typical ears of an audiophile with time and cash to burn. Perhaps most damning of all, being far, far, far, far far in excess of the noise floor of most people's listening environments. So long as your DAC/amp gives you a solid 100 dB of dynamic range, it's time to put down your wallet and enjoy the content.
rutierut 3y ago
[flagged]
dbrgn 3y ago
If you want a ready-to-use solution: Fiio makes great MP3 players, and also nice USB- and Bluetooth-DACs. A device like the Fiio Btr3k makes it possible to use good quality wired headphones with one of those modern smartphones without an audio jack. (And it sounds better than the devices that did have an audio jack.) Oh, and Fiio also builds some nice IEMs :)
- csdvrx 3y ago
  > If you want a ready-to-use solution: Fiio makes great MP3 players, and also nice USB- and Bluetooth-DACs. Or get everything from Sony which supports LDAC 990k on both the audio sending and receiving sides of Bluetooth. I love my Walkman! I also have non-LDAC "neckphones" to carry around: the Beyerdynamic "BLUE BYRD" gen2 are far more practical than Sony or Apple earbuds for one simple reason: you can't lose one since in the neckphone format, the earbuds hang around your neck with a cable (which also provides convenient buttons) Originally, I got the Beyerdynamic for my Chinese eink device (which don't support LDAC anyway) but it's so practical I use it's now paired with my Walkman and computer too! Neckphones are not easy to find in the lineup of popular brands, but I've heard great things about the latest Huawei Freelace Pro: it's the same neckphone design, but with magnets on the back of the earbuds and ANC. I'm getting the Freelace Pro "soon" (3 days from now lol) to see if it's more comfortable than my Beyerdynamics
daneel_w 3y ago
However much I love DIY electronics (in particular audio/synthesizer-related such) this just seems like a contrived solution looking for a problem. Help yourself out by getting a cheap iPod Shuffle, or a reasonable facsimile of whatever other brand you prefer.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- emilecantin 3y ago
  This is addressed in the article: > If anyone reads this post I'm sure loads of people will tell me that my problems are all my own making and if only I invested in an iPhone all my problems would go away. Well you know what? APPLE IS A SYMBOL OF PRETENTIOUSNESS AND IGNORANCE - YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW HOW YOUR PHONE WORKS - I DO NOT HAVE TO PAY A TAX TO APPLE TO LISTEN TO MY MUSIC.
  - daneel_w 3y ago
    He doesn't know how his "righteous" Android phone works either. It's the leading premise of his entire article. An iPod Shuffle costs very little and there are open source tools for putting music on them outside of macOS/iOS.
  - simondotau 3y ago
    > YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW HOW YOUR PHONE WORKS Ah, the wailing cry of an inverse fanboy. Like the fanboy, but with extra dollop of smug and righteousness. I’d estimate that 99% of people don’t know how their phone works, and I’d further wager that there’s no strong correlation between such knowledge and the operating system of their phone.
  - bayindirh 3y ago
    Actually, the OP is right. Because iPods always came with Wolfson DACs, and because of Steve Jobs' sensitiveness on the matter, Apple devices always come with very well built analog audio pipelines. My Macs, iPods and iPhone's audio outputs always rivaled my Hi-Fi amp's (an Akai AM-2850) and desktop sound card's (an ASUS Xonar D2X) without any extra equipment. So, while Apple devices are expensive, they don't skimp on such things. Instead they silently pack an entry level high-end Hi-Fi subsystem inside and be done with it. Or you can get a Sony Hi-Res media/music player.
ano-ther 3y ago
Can someone explain how that circuit works? They mention it buffers with a gain factor of 0.1, but I don’t understand how the four op-amps play together to eliminate the hiss.
- mikewarot 3y ago
  The 1k resistors on the left don't need to be there if you have 2 batteries. They waste battery. The same could be said for the ground "amplifier". Hiss is reduced because of the attenuation. It's quite possible a simple resistive pad would be equally effective as the whole thing.
- pie314isi 3y ago
  it doesn't. it only works incidentally. The author isn't an EE and has designed a circuit as if an artist (or an AI) drew a picture of what a circuit looks like. The weird topology voltage divider attenuates the signal. the op-amps buffer the output. The 470R resistors do nothing. The 1k/1k virtual ground does nothing. The rest of the authors writings smell of /r/iamverysmart
- JKCalhoun 3y ago
  Yeah, and two op-amps for the ground filter has me stymied as well. Slightly off-topic, someone pointed out that MAX232 chips make a great power supply for op-amp circuits like this (using charge-pump capacitors) one because they can hand you +/- 9V from a 5V source (which could be a USB power brick). I'm not sure but I would guess that the current needs of his audio filter would be within what the MAX232 could handle. I made a small PCB based on that idea for experimenting with op-amp circuits on a bread board.
  - burnerthrow008 3y ago
    It’s not a ground filter, but a virtual ground. The point is to divert current from whichever power rail is further from ground, into the ground from the input device. That makes it so that the two “main” opamps see a common mode voltage of 0V. Opamps generally perform better near that point. I’m not sure that it’s really necessary here with modern op amps, and the author may have just copy-pasted the circuit from somewhere.
donatj 3y ago
A pair of bookshelf speakers and a cheap class d amplifier would make for a much nicer listening experience.
- JKCalhoun 3y ago
  At the risk of sounding like a snobbish audiophile, I have found class-D give me listening fatigue. I wasn't consciously aware of it until, after listening to the class-D for six months, one day I substituted a small tube amp I had built. Never going back to digital amplification for relaxing listening to music.
  - ghostpepper 3y ago
    This is a tall claim to make with a single point of data. ie. "I found a class A that sounds better than my class D therefore the topology must be better".
    - JKCalhoun 3y ago
      That's true. FWIW, I believe the amp used the fabled TA2022 chip that had all the audiophiles in an uproar for its quality relative to its price. I assumed though, correctly or incorrectly, that it was the topology of that gave me listening fatigue and not the specific chip set. I would ask you to try for yourself though.
      - analog31 3y ago
        An amusing coincidence, and not to contradict your experience, but the first review in the first "hit" when I googled TA2022 described it as less fatiguing than a conventional amplifier: >>> The best way I can describe the Topping compared to the NAD is that the sound is richer and "warmer" (I realize this may sound strange). Listening to music through the NAD for a while got tiremsome or fatiguing. I don't get this with the Topping. https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RS7NZ301THAJP/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewpnt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B005VR0PQQ#RS7NZ301THAJP https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RS7NZ301THAJP/ref...
zh3 3y ago
I use a Pi with an add-on sound board, mpd and a bit of custom code that effectively acts as a cut-down ncmpc (the protocol is really simple). The nice bit is using a cheap RF remote [0] to control mpd (sets volume, skip forward/back/pause etc) which has the advantage that it works under the covers at night. [0] https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B015SO37SY https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B015SO37SY
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  How do you receive the radio?
  - zh3 3y ago
    That RF remote control comes with a USB dongle; it appears as a HID device so essentially the buttons act as if they are keypresses on a keyboard (cursor keys, enter etc). So the code just receives the keypresses, and uses them to select the appropriate mpd function (forward/back, volume up/down while the power button simply acts as pause/unpause).
HankB99 3y ago
I use bone conduction Bluetooth earphones to listen to podcasts when I run. I notice a high pitched noise, occasionally accompanying the spoken "s" sound. I suppose it's some kind of aliasing and I don't know if it is introduced in the source material, player, Bluetooth or headset. Luckily it's only moderately irritating.
- planewave 3y ago
  This is just called sibilance [0], it’s most likely in the source material but could be accentuated by a number of downstream factors. See also [1] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibilant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibilant [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-essing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-essing
  - HankB99 3y ago
    Thanks for filling in my knowledge of that phenomenon.
- prima-facie 3y ago
  This is called sibilance. You're sensitive to high pitched sounds around the 5-6 KHz area. You can either EQ it out or wait it out. Once you're past 40-ish or so the brains own EQ kicks in.
  - HankB99 3y ago
    Thanks for providing a name for that. I'm 30 past 40 so I guess my brains EQ is slow kicking in.
    - m463 3y ago
      I think S sounds are high frequency. So are F sounds and it might be harder to distinguish F and S with codecs that don't do high frequencies cleanly.
twic 3y ago
> It turns out that all music players on Android actually play music using the Android-media-player-service. There is at least one which doesn't - USB Audio Player Pro can drive a USB DAC and some phones' internal DACs directly: https://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/products/usb-audio-player-pro https://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/products/usb-audio-playe... > My desktop has great sound quality but I don't want to be sitting at my computer chair while I listen to my music, I do that too much already. Perhaps an extension lead would have been a simpler solution here.
rollcat 3y ago
Eh. Just buy a half-decent DAC. I liked Scarlett 2i2, currently rocking Zoom UAC-232; if you're after a smaller package and don't need an XLR mic, I've heard very good things about Audioquest DragonFly. > When my phone plays certain tracks it makes and explosion of noise when switching songs, or pausing and resuming. There was a time when I'd laugh, but in the recent years Apple Music has been doing random crap like that on Mac, iPhone, even HomePods. I'm one subscription price hike away from switching back to BitTorrent. > Although Android is Free Software [...] Unless you're running Replicant - no, it isn't.
- 542458 3y ago
  At the price point the OP is running at I’d say one of the Apple USB-C DACs is your your best bet. They’re volume limited on Android, but the OP’s headphones are very sensitive already so I don’t think it matters.
- bob1029 3y ago
  > Just buy a half-decent DAC. I bought the Apogee Groove recently and I can't imagine ever needing to upgrade. It has the same chip that you will find in $1000+ units.
don-code 3y ago
This, unfortunately, is on point. It does seem to be getting harder to listen to music, but I also think it's because our expectations around _how_ we listen to music are increasing in scope. I have an FM radio in almost every room, and a vinyl record player in the living room. This has been (roughly) the state of those two technologies since the 70s. They're simple to reason about and operate. I also have an extensive digital music collection. And I want to listen to that from... 1. My stereo - so I have Kodi Media Center running on a home theater PC. I control it with my phone. It gets media off my NAS, which means I have to run a backup from my laptop, where I download the music, to be able to listen to it there. 2. My car - which can take a USB flash drive, but can't play back FLAC files, which is how I store them locally. So I have a script which converts them all to MP3s. I need to walk to the flash drive inside, connect it, run the script, then walk it back out. 3. My phone - at least that's click-and-drag. Listening to a personal music collection has almost definitely gotten more logistically challenging than shuffling around some LPs or CDs, but there are also many more use cases enabled today.
mstudio 3y ago
Really interesting write-up and some funny rants about Apple/Spotify. I'd never heard the term "PP3 battery" before. Wikipedia tells me that this is the standard rectangular 9V/0.5 Ah battery you can buy at the store (in the US, at least). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-volt_battery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-volt_battery
Quimoniz 3y ago
> When my phone plays certain tracks it makes and explosion of noise when switching songs. [...] Apparently this service has some sort of bug. Using Chrome on Android and also on my computer, the annoying pop does thankfully not appear between music tracks with my Simple Music Player, called JUkebox with Php and Html5, short JUPH: https://github.com/quimoniz/juph https://github.com/quimoniz/juph I tried to make it dead simple, using the HTML5 Audio element. Now it's been lying around for 4 years... does anyone else know of a similarly non-sophisticated audio player?
squarefoot 3y ago
About one year ago I purchased on Ebay this cheap Chinese player https://www.jolike.com.cn/productinfo/534495.html https://www.jolike.com.cn/productinfo/534495.html It's well built, sturdy, battery life is great and sound quality very good. But... After some use it appears crystal clear that they cobbled together parts without testing them properly, which is normal in cheap devices with no or minimal quality control. FM radio audio level is completely different from recorded music, and at minimum level (that is, 1) it is still too loud for relaxed listening in environment without loud ambient noise, and if you go from say mp3 to FM without adjusting levels be prepared to jump. Touchscreen is badly arranged: some functions are in the way (playing speed to name one) and could be activated by mistake when changing tracks. Navigation can be tedious in crowded directories because advancing by pages doesn't work as it should. Last but not least, as with many other cheap players, the preset based equalizer is a joke. That is not how a proper equalizer should work; just give me a damn graphic one but please stop that useless Jazz-Rock-Classic-Disco-etc. thing that never, ever works. Etc. That device could have been a real gem if only they didn't ruin it with junk firmware with no way to upgrade it. Had they sent a couple free devices to the Rockbox folks plus enough technical information on the employed hardware, they would now have a real gem instead of a half assed mediocre toy. For reference: https://www.rockbox.org/ https://www.rockbox.org/
- Spastche 3y ago
  that tends to be my issue with a lot of cheap chinese stuff. if you can replace the firmware it's great, if you can't it's a worthless brick. I hear it's an issue with vending machines you can buy off ali express and such, but I do wonder how hard they'd be to wire up an esp32 or something
dekhn 3y ago
I bought a $25 headphone amplifier and that solved most problems for me. Around the same time, I also built my own desktop speakers from components, which made me appreciate how everything in my office is basically an RF emitter and receiver.
Night_Thastus 3y ago
For anyone wanting to use their phone with a bit more audio-related Oomph, I strongly recommend looking at an external DAC. The main reason for doing so is because it will allow you to completely bypass Android's audio player, and play audio 100% losslessly. I use an ifi GO Link (~60), with USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP). The difference between that and just plugging into the 3.5mm jack on the phone is night and day. There are obviously much nicer and more expensive DACs, but IMO you're hitting diminishing returns quickly. The ONE thing I hate about going this route is that USB-C is not nearly as robust a connector as 3.5mm. Even the slightest jiggle can cause the DAC to disconnect, leading to a lot of annoyance because Android requires you to re-confirm every time. Some days it's flawless, other times I have to go through the stupid prompts like 10x in a couple minutes.
- sgentle 3y ago
  I had a problem like that, which turned out to be caused by pocket lint stuck in the USB-C jack. A bit of digging with a toothpick (I had to split it a bit to make the end small enough) got it out and after that the connection was very secure.
nullhole 3y ago
"In the world of hard-wired surveillance, the person with the soldering iron is king." - Unknown
analog31 3y ago
>>> However, I had a problem. When my phone plays certain tracks it makes and explosion of noise when switching songs, or pausing and resuming. I've experienced this too, with certain audio hardware, on my Windows system. It appears that the system is connecting and disconnecting the audio hardware without muting it. It's not a matter of improving audio quality, but of removing some sort of glitch that's happening.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
LAC-Tech 3y ago
I'm not sure where why you bought a cheap portable CD player in 2023 instead of grabbing one of sonys mp3 walkman devices. I have one that's 10 or so years old and it's still my primary portable music listening device (I never got into playing music on smartphones, too clumsy).

145 points by cwillu 3y ago

dang 3y ago

Discussed at the time: Do I really need to get out the soldering-iron again? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18640136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18640136 - Dec 2018 (417 comments)

cweagans 3y ago

> I DO NOT HAVE TO PAY A TAX TO APPLE TO LISTEN TO MY MUSIC The author paid a significant tax, as documented in their blog post: they had to try several devices and eventually *build custom hardware* to do something so simple. Yes, it’s fun. Yes, it gets the job done. No, I don’t want to do that when I just wanna listen to music. The apple tax is more than just easy access to music played through marginally higher quality DACs. It’s also a cost that I’m happy to pay to never have to do something like what the author of this article did. My time is significantly more valuable to me than ideological objections to working technology.

slim 3y ago
you don't even have a decent web browser on your iphone and even with all your apple tax money you can't do nothing about it
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- skydhash 3y ago
  It does everything I want. So much that I’m using the desktop version too.
  - zeta0134 3y ago
    My iPad is simply not capable of running uBlock Origin. Until this changes, switching my main mobile device to an iPhone is a complete non-option. I absolutely must be able to run software I choose, full stop.
    - cweagans 3y ago
      I choose software that runs on the devices that I don’t have to mess around with. There are plenty of options that do work across the Apple ecosystem. ublock is not the only option, nor is it necessarily the best one. The extremely minor inconvenience of finding a different adblocker is one time pain. Attempting to curate the “perfect” computing environment is pain that just doesn’t go away. I ran many different distros. I ran LFS as my daily driver for several years. I played with all of the desktop environments. What did it get me? Nothing. There is no practical value in sinking the time into that. It’s fun, sure. But I don’t get paid to have fun. My business doesn’t run on fun.
      - zeta0134 3y ago
        The irritating thing is that the software I want to run works perfectly fine on my mac mini. That's in the Apple ecosystem and yet respects enough of my freedoms to not be a problem. But the iOS devices are entirely locked down. The ad blocker thing one tiny example; what I actually want to run is Real(tm) Firefox and its rich extension ecosystem. There are dozens of little accessibility enhancements I run on top of just the content blocker. The iOS versions of Firefox are heavily gimped, aren't allowed to run the Gecko rendering engine (purely because Apple said so) and can't do the things I need. My iPad basically doesn't have a good browser, just a cheap plastic imitation of the Amulet of Mozilla. All of my other devices do, so it's the odd one out. It's not just Firefox, but that's the example everyone's heard of, so it's what I tend to lead with. I'd also like to be able to run weird media software, background file syncing services that aren't iCloud, and (gasp!) retro game emulators on the devices I own. All disallowed by app store policy, and unlike Android which supports sideloading and alternate app stores, on iOS I have no recourse as an end user. So I choose not to be an end user; I won't purchase hardware that refuses to respect my wishes.
  - danhau 3y ago
    I’m in the same boat. I’m even thinking about switching to Edge on Windows machines. Stock browser are perfectly fine nowadays.
  - addicted 3y ago
    It’s funny how so many Apple users insist their Apple device does everything they want, until Apple releases a new update that does something more that other devices have had for years, and then they’re not just using it all the time but boasting about it. One of the most classic examples was Copy/Paste or Apps. I remember so many Apple users telling me that Copy/Paste was unnecessary on an iPhone or that WebApps were good enough (something I completely disagreed with) only to see them change their tune completely once Apple released those functionalities. I remember how 5G was supposed to be an albatross of a feature until Apple released their phones supporting 5G. Or how digital pens weren’t needed at all, until Apple released an iPad with a digital pen and then it was just raves about how digital pens are awesome. How can one forget larger screens! I remember how 3.5” was THE perfect phone screen size and now you can’t even buy a phone that size from Apple. Multitasking! I’ve tried switching to Android but never been successful. I simply don’t like it and enjoy iOS too much. That doesn’t mean I need to be blind to all the missing iOS functionality and pretend my I wouldnt be happier if they weren’t missing. I just find that the upsides are more than worth the downsides. That doesn’t mean I need to pretend those downsides don’t exist.
    - averageRoyalty 3y ago
      > It’s funny how so many Apple users insist their Apple device does everything they want, until Apple releases a new update that does something more that other devices have had for years, and then they’re not just using it all the time but boasting about it. Isn't that normally the case? You have a device that does X you're happy with, and they add a new feature. You didn't know how useful it would be, so you're excited and show it off. I'd imagine there are plenty of examples of his with Android, or your favourite car brand or all sorts of things.

userbinator 3y ago

But the sound quality on the laptop is just not quite up-to scratch. I think the output buffer on the amplifier is just not very good and struggles with the dynamic load of the transducers. In case anyone else runs into something similar: make sure you've plugged in the headphones to a speaker/HP jack instead of "line out", or configured the output as such, since the latter is unamplified and can make the audio sound "thin" and lacking. (On the other hand, I've had to do the opposite with some very sensitive IEMs where otherwise even the lowest volume setting would be almost painfully loud.)

smackeyacky 3y ago

I hate to say it after years of Android ownership...but just buy an iPhone.

dclowd9901 3y ago

I feel for the author when it comes to the quest for an ideal zen state with tech. It seems like you’re always making a compromise somewhere. For so long I’ve avoided emulating games because something was always fucky about it. Visuals, audio, game bugs — you name it. I recently bought a Steam Deck and outfitted it with retroarch to see if anything had changed in that world and my god everything has changed. The device effortlessly emulated games all the way up to the switch generation and they look and play beautifully. No configuration needed. It’s the experience I’ve always dreamt of with emulation and it’s a total game changer when it comes to my nerves.

snvzz 3y ago

People at the office will ask about my usb dac/amp and they don't seem to get it. Yes, these devices are needed, because the audio outputs of all sorts of devices today simply are trash. Topping DX3 Pro+[0] is my current recommendation, by the way. As for headphones, Sennheiser HD600 really are solid. 0. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-dx3-pro-review-dac-headphone-amp.27148/ https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/t...

LanternLight83 3y ago
I have a Topping MX3, initially loved how knob feels but it bothered me that the tactile feedback didn't actually line up with the adjustments... mostly use the remote now anyways, which is great
m463 3y ago
I like schiit: https://www.schiit.com https://www.schiit.com I currently use a Hel day to day: https://www.schiit.com/products/hel-plus https://www.schiit.com/products/hel-plus Lets me do work meetings with headphone+mic on one system via USB, or switch and listen to PCM audio via second input
- snvzz 3y ago
  hel is decent and portable. If portable isn't needed, about the same money buys that topping, with digital encoder for volume, higher specs and better measurements... but no mic input.
simondotau 3y ago
> because the audio outputs of all sorts of devices today simply are trash As a staunch objectivist audiophile, I empathise with this view. But there's also too much of an obsession with achieving levels of dynamic range precision far in excess of the best audio recordings. Not to mention far in excess of the best human ears — let alone the typical ears of an audiophile with time and cash to burn. Perhaps most damning of all, being far, far, far, far far in excess of the noise floor of most people's listening environments. So long as your DAC/amp gives you a solid 100 dB of dynamic range, it's time to put down your wallet and enjoy the content.

rutierut 3y ago

[flagged]

dbrgn 3y ago

If you want a ready-to-use solution: Fiio makes great MP3 players, and also nice USB- and Bluetooth-DACs. A device like the Fiio Btr3k makes it possible to use good quality wired headphones with one of those modern smartphones without an audio jack. (And it sounds better than the devices that did have an audio jack.) Oh, and Fiio also builds some nice IEMs :)

csdvrx 3y ago
> If you want a ready-to-use solution: Fiio makes great MP3 players, and also nice USB- and Bluetooth-DACs. Or get everything from Sony which supports LDAC 990k on both the audio sending and receiving sides of Bluetooth. I love my Walkman! I also have non-LDAC "neckphones" to carry around: the Beyerdynamic "BLUE BYRD" gen2 are far more practical than Sony or Apple earbuds for one simple reason: you can't lose one since in the neckphone format, the earbuds hang around your neck with a cable (which also provides convenient buttons) Originally, I got the Beyerdynamic for my Chinese eink device (which don't support LDAC anyway) but it's so practical I use it's now paired with my Walkman and computer too! Neckphones are not easy to find in the lineup of popular brands, but I've heard great things about the latest Huawei Freelace Pro: it's the same neckphone design, but with magnets on the back of the earbuds and ANC. I'm getting the Freelace Pro "soon" (3 days from now lol) to see if it's more comfortable than my Beyerdynamics

daneel_w 3y ago

However much I love DIY electronics (in particular audio/synthesizer-related such) this just seems like a contrived solution looking for a problem. Help yourself out by getting a cheap iPod Shuffle, or a reasonable facsimile of whatever other brand you prefer.

deleted 3y ago
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emilecantin 3y ago
This is addressed in the article: > If anyone reads this post I'm sure loads of people will tell me that my problems are all my own making and if only I invested in an iPhone all my problems would go away. Well you know what? APPLE IS A SYMBOL OF PRETENTIOUSNESS AND IGNORANCE - YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW HOW YOUR PHONE WORKS - I DO NOT HAVE TO PAY A TAX TO APPLE TO LISTEN TO MY MUSIC.
- daneel_w 3y ago
  He doesn't know how his "righteous" Android phone works either. It's the leading premise of his entire article. An iPod Shuffle costs very little and there are open source tools for putting music on them outside of macOS/iOS.
- simondotau 3y ago
  > YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW HOW YOUR PHONE WORKS Ah, the wailing cry of an inverse fanboy. Like the fanboy, but with extra dollop of smug and righteousness. I’d estimate that 99% of people don’t know how their phone works, and I’d further wager that there’s no strong correlation between such knowledge and the operating system of their phone.
- bayindirh 3y ago
  Actually, the OP is right. Because iPods always came with Wolfson DACs, and because of Steve Jobs' sensitiveness on the matter, Apple devices always come with very well built analog audio pipelines. My Macs, iPods and iPhone's audio outputs always rivaled my Hi-Fi amp's (an Akai AM-2850) and desktop sound card's (an ASUS Xonar D2X) without any extra equipment. So, while Apple devices are expensive, they don't skimp on such things. Instead they silently pack an entry level high-end Hi-Fi subsystem inside and be done with it. Or you can get a Sony Hi-Res media/music player.

ano-ther 3y ago

Can someone explain how that circuit works? They mention it buffers with a gain factor of 0.1, but I don’t understand how the four op-amps play together to eliminate the hiss.

mikewarot 3y ago
The 1k resistors on the left don't need to be there if you have 2 batteries. They waste battery. The same could be said for the ground "amplifier". Hiss is reduced because of the attenuation. It's quite possible a simple resistive pad would be equally effective as the whole thing.
pie314isi 3y ago
it doesn't. it only works incidentally. The author isn't an EE and has designed a circuit as if an artist (or an AI) drew a picture of what a circuit looks like. The weird topology voltage divider attenuates the signal. the op-amps buffer the output. The 470R resistors do nothing. The 1k/1k virtual ground does nothing. The rest of the authors writings smell of /r/iamverysmart
JKCalhoun 3y ago
Yeah, and two op-amps for the ground filter has me stymied as well. Slightly off-topic, someone pointed out that MAX232 chips make a great power supply for op-amp circuits like this (using charge-pump capacitors) one because they can hand you +/- 9V from a 5V source (which could be a USB power brick). I'm not sure but I would guess that the current needs of his audio filter would be within what the MAX232 could handle. I made a small PCB based on that idea for experimenting with op-amp circuits on a bread board.
- burnerthrow008 3y ago
  It’s not a ground filter, but a virtual ground. The point is to divert current from whichever power rail is further from ground, into the ground from the input device. That makes it so that the two “main” opamps see a common mode voltage of 0V. Opamps generally perform better near that point. I’m not sure that it’s really necessary here with modern op amps, and the author may have just copy-pasted the circuit from somewhere.

donatj 3y ago

A pair of bookshelf speakers and a cheap class d amplifier would make for a much nicer listening experience.

JKCalhoun 3y ago
At the risk of sounding like a snobbish audiophile, I have found class-D give me listening fatigue. I wasn't consciously aware of it until, after listening to the class-D for six months, one day I substituted a small tube amp I had built. Never going back to digital amplification for relaxing listening to music.
- ghostpepper 3y ago
  This is a tall claim to make with a single point of data. ie. "I found a class A that sounds better than my class D therefore the topology must be better".
  - JKCalhoun 3y ago
    That's true. FWIW, I believe the amp used the fabled TA2022 chip that had all the audiophiles in an uproar for its quality relative to its price. I assumed though, correctly or incorrectly, that it was the topology of that gave me listening fatigue and not the specific chip set. I would ask you to try for yourself though.
    - analog31 3y ago
      An amusing coincidence, and not to contradict your experience, but the first review in the first "hit" when I googled TA2022 described it as less fatiguing than a conventional amplifier: >>> The best way I can describe the Topping compared to the NAD is that the sound is richer and "warmer" (I realize this may sound strange). Listening to music through the NAD for a while got tiremsome or fatiguing. I don't get this with the Topping. https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RS7NZ301THAJP/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewpnt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B005VR0PQQ#RS7NZ301THAJP https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RS7NZ301THAJP/ref...

zh3 3y ago

I use a Pi with an add-on sound board, mpd and a bit of custom code that effectively acts as a cut-down ncmpc (the protocol is really simple). The nice bit is using a cheap RF remote [0] to control mpd (sets volume, skip forward/back/pause etc) which has the advantage that it works under the covers at night. [0] https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B015SO37SY https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B015SO37SY

actionfromafar 3y ago
How do you receive the radio?
- zh3 3y ago
  That RF remote control comes with a USB dongle; it appears as a HID device so essentially the buttons act as if they are keypresses on a keyboard (cursor keys, enter etc). So the code just receives the keypresses, and uses them to select the appropriate mpd function (forward/back, volume up/down while the power button simply acts as pause/unpause).

HankB99 3y ago

I use bone conduction Bluetooth earphones to listen to podcasts when I run. I notice a high pitched noise, occasionally accompanying the spoken "s" sound. I suppose it's some kind of aliasing and I don't know if it is introduced in the source material, player, Bluetooth or headset. Luckily it's only moderately irritating.

planewave 3y ago
This is just called sibilance [0], it’s most likely in the source material but could be accentuated by a number of downstream factors. See also [1] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibilant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibilant [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-essing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-essing
- HankB99 3y ago
  Thanks for filling in my knowledge of that phenomenon.
prima-facie 3y ago
This is called sibilance. You're sensitive to high pitched sounds around the 5-6 KHz area. You can either EQ it out or wait it out. Once you're past 40-ish or so the brains own EQ kicks in.
- HankB99 3y ago
  Thanks for providing a name for that. I'm 30 past 40 so I guess my brains EQ is slow kicking in.
  - m463 3y ago
    I think S sounds are high frequency. So are F sounds and it might be harder to distinguish F and S with codecs that don't do high frequencies cleanly.

twic 3y ago

> It turns out that all music players on Android actually play music using the Android-media-player-service. There is at least one which doesn't - USB Audio Player Pro can drive a USB DAC and some phones' internal DACs directly: https://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/products/usb-audio-player-pro https://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/products/usb-audio-playe... > My desktop has great sound quality but I don't want to be sitting at my computer chair while I listen to my music, I do that too much already. Perhaps an extension lead would have been a simpler solution here.

rollcat 3y ago

Eh. Just buy a half-decent DAC. I liked Scarlett 2i2, currently rocking Zoom UAC-232; if you're after a smaller package and don't need an XLR mic, I've heard very good things about Audioquest DragonFly. > When my phone plays certain tracks it makes and explosion of noise when switching songs, or pausing and resuming. There was a time when I'd laugh, but in the recent years Apple Music has been doing random crap like that on Mac, iPhone, even HomePods. I'm one subscription price hike away from switching back to BitTorrent. > Although Android is Free Software [...] Unless you're running Replicant - no, it isn't.

542458 3y ago
At the price point the OP is running at I’d say one of the Apple USB-C DACs is your your best bet. They’re volume limited on Android, but the OP’s headphones are very sensitive already so I don’t think it matters.
bob1029 3y ago
> Just buy a half-decent DAC. I bought the Apogee Groove recently and I can't imagine ever needing to upgrade. It has the same chip that you will find in $1000+ units.

don-code 3y ago

This, unfortunately, is on point. It does seem to be getting harder to listen to music, but I also think it's because our expectations around _how_ we listen to music are increasing in scope. I have an FM radio in almost every room, and a vinyl record player in the living room. This has been (roughly) the state of those two technologies since the 70s. They're simple to reason about and operate. I also have an extensive digital music collection. And I want to listen to that from... 1. My stereo - so I have Kodi Media Center running on a home theater PC. I control it with my phone. It gets media off my NAS, which means I have to run a backup from my laptop, where I download the music, to be able to listen to it there. 2. My car - which can take a USB flash drive, but can't play back FLAC files, which is how I store them locally. So I have a script which converts them all to MP3s. I need to walk to the flash drive inside, connect it, run the script, then walk it back out. 3. My phone - at least that's click-and-drag. Listening to a personal music collection has almost definitely gotten more logistically challenging than shuffling around some LPs or CDs, but there are also many more use cases enabled today.

mstudio 3y ago

Really interesting write-up and some funny rants about Apple/Spotify. I'd never heard the term "PP3 battery" before. Wikipedia tells me that this is the standard rectangular 9V/0.5 Ah battery you can buy at the store (in the US, at least). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-volt_battery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-volt_battery

Quimoniz 3y ago

> When my phone plays certain tracks it makes and explosion of noise when switching songs. [...] Apparently this service has some sort of bug. Using Chrome on Android and also on my computer, the annoying pop does thankfully not appear between music tracks with my Simple Music Player, called JUkebox with Php and Html5, short JUPH: https://github.com/quimoniz/juph https://github.com/quimoniz/juph I tried to make it dead simple, using the HTML5 Audio element. Now it's been lying around for 4 years... does anyone else know of a similarly non-sophisticated audio player?

squarefoot 3y ago

About one year ago I purchased on Ebay this cheap Chinese player https://www.jolike.com.cn/productinfo/534495.html https://www.jolike.com.cn/productinfo/534495.html It's well built, sturdy, battery life is great and sound quality very good. But... After some use it appears crystal clear that they cobbled together parts without testing them properly, which is normal in cheap devices with no or minimal quality control. FM radio audio level is completely different from recorded music, and at minimum level (that is, 1) it is still too loud for relaxed listening in environment without loud ambient noise, and if you go from say mp3 to FM without adjusting levels be prepared to jump. Touchscreen is badly arranged: some functions are in the way (playing speed to name one) and could be activated by mistake when changing tracks. Navigation can be tedious in crowded directories because advancing by pages doesn't work as it should. Last but not least, as with many other cheap players, the preset based equalizer is a joke. That is not how a proper equalizer should work; just give me a damn graphic one but please stop that useless Jazz-Rock-Classic-Disco-etc. thing that never, ever works. Etc. That device could have been a real gem if only they didn't ruin it with junk firmware with no way to upgrade it. Had they sent a couple free devices to the Rockbox folks plus enough technical information on the employed hardware, they would now have a real gem instead of a half assed mediocre toy. For reference: https://www.rockbox.org/ https://www.rockbox.org/

Spastche 3y ago
that tends to be my issue with a lot of cheap chinese stuff. if you can replace the firmware it's great, if you can't it's a worthless brick. I hear it's an issue with vending machines you can buy off ali express and such, but I do wonder how hard they'd be to wire up an esp32 or something

dekhn 3y ago

I bought a $25 headphone amplifier and that solved most problems for me. Around the same time, I also built my own desktop speakers from components, which made me appreciate how everything in my office is basically an RF emitter and receiver.

Night_Thastus 3y ago

For anyone wanting to use their phone with a bit more audio-related Oomph, I strongly recommend looking at an external DAC. The main reason for doing so is because it will allow you to completely bypass Android's audio player, and play audio 100% losslessly. I use an ifi GO Link (~60), with USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP). The difference between that and just plugging into the 3.5mm jack on the phone is night and day. There are obviously much nicer and more expensive DACs, but IMO you're hitting diminishing returns quickly. The ONE thing I hate about going this route is that USB-C is not nearly as robust a connector as 3.5mm. Even the slightest jiggle can cause the DAC to disconnect, leading to a lot of annoyance because Android requires you to re-confirm every time. Some days it's flawless, other times I have to go through the stupid prompts like 10x in a couple minutes.

sgentle 3y ago
I had a problem like that, which turned out to be caused by pocket lint stuck in the USB-C jack. A bit of digging with a toothpick (I had to split it a bit to make the end small enough) got it out and after that the connection was very secure.

nullhole 3y ago

"In the world of hard-wired surveillance, the person with the soldering iron is king." - Unknown

analog31 3y ago

>>> However, I had a problem. When my phone plays certain tracks it makes and explosion of noise when switching songs, or pausing and resuming. I've experienced this too, with certain audio hardware, on my Windows system. It appears that the system is connecting and disconnecting the audio hardware without muting it. It's not a matter of improving audio quality, but of removing some sort of glitch that's happening.

deleted 3y ago
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LAC-Tech 3y ago

I'm not sure where why you bought a cheap portable CD player in 2023 instead of grabbing one of sonys mp3 walkman devices. I have one that's 10 or so years old and it's still my primary portable music listening device (I never got into playing music on smartphones, too clumsy).