6 ms·

South Korea Will Police 'Shrinkflation' at the Supermarket

81 points by gnicholas 3y ago

achow 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
miffe 3y ago
https://archive.is/PG0Kp https://archive.is/PG0Kp
boomboomsubban 3y ago
Are they only targeting a reduced quantity for the same price or can they somehow police a reduced quality?
- lopis 3y ago
  South Korea has been known for being very strict about false advertising in packaging. So products there usually look very similar to what's shown in the packaging. I imagine they go beyond reduced quantity.
- DarkNova6 3y ago
  Wouldn't be impossible to police. If you keep the same packaging, but change the ingredients how likely you think they just made the product better?
- bell-cot 3y ago
  Depends on the product, and the change. If "Chlorine Bleach" is diluted from 5.0% concentration (NaClO in H2O) to 4.5%, that's simple and obvious. If the gallon of chlorine bleach is replaced with a 96oz. "ultra" version, which is 6.5%? Do some math - that's a slight reduction in the NaClO quantity. If that "ultra" is 6.75%, that's a slight increase in NaClO quantity. Yet the manufacturer's sales and profits will very likely increase - because the "96 oz." will cut their packaging and transportation costs. And most people will not reduce the quantity of "ultra bleach" they use (in their mop bucket, washing machine, etc.) enough to offset the increased concentration. So (on average) customers will pay more money, for the cheaper-on-paper ultra bleach. And that's a very simple situation. How do you police it if Acme Soup Co. is tweaking their recipes, to put cheaper ingredients and more water into each can?
  - dmichulke 3y ago
    Since water is specifically cheap (at least in my part of the world), maybe you should have price per dry mass (would work for food and cleaning agents) but that would probably mean they'd add sawdust or starch or sugar. So we could also add those to the "cheap ingredient list" but of course it's a never-ending battle and likely not to the benefit of the consumer. I suppose we're actually dealing with a price distribution so maybe a possible solution is: a graph where X is the procurement price per ingredient and Y is the percentage of the product that is composed of things with ingredient price <= X. You'd want to have as small as possible an area under that curve but then the question is the procurement price and we've gone full circle.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    > If "Chlorine Bleach" is diluted from 5.0% concentration (NaClO in H2O) to 4.5%, that's simple and obvious. This can be surprisingly dangerous. Home canning recipes expect vinegar to have a certain, long-standard level of acidity to be safe. In the past year or two, some brands have very quietly change their acetic acid percentage. Small changes in other ingredients can really throw off safe recipes, like tomatoes going from 15 oz to 14.5 oz. That changes acid levels, too.
    - bell-cot 3y ago
      True. And there's also the all-too-common offense of screwing up old recipes - because miserably large number of those specify quantities like "one can of pie filling", "two package unflavored gelatin", and "one medium onion". Nothing can be done about the granny's collection of recipes on index cards, but I wish there was some "if you wanted to copyright your book or web site full of recipes, then you should have..." penalty for this.
mathieuh 3y ago
It's not just reducing the amount of the product, a lot of products also reformulate to make things cheaper to produce while keeping the price to the consumer the same. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/oct/21/shrinkflation-youre-right-from-gin-to-butter-quantity-and-quality-are-taking-a-hit https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/oct/21/shrinkflation-...
- andersrs 3y ago
  aka shitflation
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    I’ve seen it called “skimpflation”. Skimp on ingredients instead of shrinking the product.
    - andersrs 3y ago
      That's a good one but there are other forms too. 1. You turn up to buy the store brand of x commodity food but it's out of stock. Stockflation? 2. Bad service. Long waiting times at a restaurant for example.
m_eiman 3y ago
Here in Sweden we have a law that forces shops to provide a "comparison price" on the price tag. Depending on the type of product, it's the price per volume, weight or unit. This makes it trivial to compare prices between products of different package sizes, and to notice shrinkflation. Doesn't help detect changed ingredients that lower quality, though. I thought this was a EU thing, but a quick search suggests that maybe it's something specific to us?
- LelouBil 3y ago
  We also have this in France. I don't know if it's a legal requirement, but I see it everywhere, so I'm pretty sure it is.
  - germanier 3y ago
    Yes, it's an EU-wide legal requirement (directive 98/6/EC on consumer protection in the indication of the prices of products offered to consumers).
- scotty79 3y ago
  In Poland there's also price per unit but with way smaller font than the price.
- mkl 3y ago
  You can't use that to detect shrinkflation unless you remember the old price per unit, right? Some NZ supermarkets have that kind of labelling, but not always for every product. My regular (soon to be former) cereal has gone from 700g to 620g to 535g in about 3 months, all for the same price. The box has the same width and height, but the depth has been shrinking.
  - andersrs 3y ago
    I'm creating a browser extension to display unit pricing on some NZ supermarket sites that don't have it.
- walthamstow 3y ago
Farbklex 3y ago
Good. I would rather have the same amount of product I am used to and pay more than have less of the product in one package. Same goes for quality. Don't degrade your product. If it gets worse, chances are I won't buy it, no matter for what price you sell it. If you instead keep the quality and increase the price then I might be willing to pay up just to enjoy my favourite brand of crisps. That said, it is probably better for me that a regular sized bag of cripsps is now 175g instead of 200g.
- ReptileMan 3y ago
  >Good. I would rather have the same amount of product I am used to and pay more than have less of the product in one package. There was a joke in eastern europe (after the berlin wall fell, and all kinds of fraud and high inflation were happening) - The average price of a liter of gasoline fell by 4% last month, the average volume of liter of gasoline fell by 7% ...
- dewclin 3y ago
  > Don't degrade your product. If it gets worse, chances are I won't buy it, no matter for what price you sell it. Completely agree: recently I wanted some peppermints, and I noticed the sugar had been replaced by "glucose syrup". I didn't buy them, and I've done this for other products. Are companies losing sales, which will make them "degrade their product" more as their revenues decline, which will lose sales, and so-on?
  - cassepipe 3y ago
    I was with you until I read your example: Replacing a something that is almost pure energy to your body with something that is pure energy won't probably make a big change on how healthy your diet is. If you are giving yourself insulin spikes between meals eating candy, your body will not thank you.
- unsupp0rted 3y ago
  > If it gets worse, chances are I won't buy it Most people, most times, can’t tell
- 3y ago
fmajid 3y ago
France also.
iinnPP 3y ago
My wife and I have dabbled (with great success, but not for everyone) in keto for a few months at a time over the last 3 years. Sugar has been added to basically everything at our Canadian grocery stores. Some examples: Creamcheese + 600% Fresh sausage + 300% Cold cuts + 300% Canned tomatoes + 400% Of course this also coincides with Canada's lovely carbon tax (which is applied to our farmers). Taxing the farmer is a problem because every person in the middle is marking up that carbon tax before passing it along. Just tax our food and call it a day. Otherwise companies will just continueto buy the tomatoes from Mexico and SHIP IT ACROSS 3 &$+#+$ COUNTRIES.
- selimthegrim 3y ago
  Do you know what a border adjustment levy is?
- HenryBemis 3y ago
  Keto/carnivore helps A LOT (YMMV). It eliminated cravings for me and also cut spending significantly as it removed any impulsive shopping/eating. If you think about it most ultra processed food is packed with salt and/or sugar to hijack your brain and keep you hooked. Big food is not joking around when it comes to addiction.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  > Taxing the farmer is a problem because every person in the middle is marking up that carbon tax before passing it along. Just tax our food and call it a day. Otherwise companies will just continueto buy the tomatoes from Mexico and SHIP IT ACROSS 3 &$+#+$ COUNTRIES. That is the point of a carbon tax, to apply it at the root cause of carbon emissions ensuring no one avoids paying the cost, and hence incentivizing everyone to reduce consumption. And the tomatoes are coming from Mexico because that is where the procurers can get them at the best price to quality ratio for their customers. If you think you can find a better source, I am sure the stores would love to hear it, because they are not paying to ship them across multiple countries for fun.
- mthoms 3y ago
  Only some carbon taxes apply to farmers. They are specifically exempt from the tax on any gasoline or diesel for their equipment. They aren't exempt from the tax on (for instance) natural gas to heat a barn. Though I believe that is changing with Bill C-234.
dfgfek 3y ago
They should consider policing whatever ruinuous economic policies are creating inflation. Lead by example, then you can shame others.
- junofan 3y ago
  Definitely playing with fire. Inflation works in practice because people are intrinsically happier when they have more money. And we discovered in 1971 that “the printing press is inexhaustible.” Maybe shifting attention to producers is the goal? Feels like a short-term fix.
preommr 3y ago
This has gotten so crazy that there was a segment on Conan with B.J. Novak where the entire interview was around how Novak thinks Cadbury eggs have gotten smaller. And it's weird because when he brought this up with people, they were obviously passive about it, not knowing for sure since who actually remembers the old price of a single cadbury egg? He even went on the website, and they said that "the eggs haven't gotten smaller, you've just gotten bigger". Not only do they know, they're trying to actively gaslight the population. He then brings out an old egg he found and compares it to a newer one and it's definitely smaller. link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlXLCrzpToo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlXLCrzpToo
brigandish 3y ago
Japan needs this, along with any number above zero of the other good packaging laws mentioned in the comments. Try doing a price comparison when the weight of the item isn't even required to be listed on the pack!
boppo1 3y ago
Does CPI adjust for shrinkflation?
g-b-r 3y ago
In Italy they've tried it with subscriptions a few years ago (of mobile, internet and satellite tv). The monthly subscriptions were turned into "four weeks" (28 days) ones, while “maintaining the same price”. "We're simplifying your subscription, from now on you'll always pay every four weeks instead of a confusing varying month! :) Oh and don't worry the price stays the same! :) :)" The 8.7 actual price increase was an unfortunate, unwanted side effect of course!! :(
carlo2 3y ago
Related to this, I'm in the UK and use online-only supermarket Ocado. And I recently built https://ocamatic.uk/ https://ocamatic.uk/, which scrapes price history for all products. I use it to check how often a given product is on sale, for example. It also shows recent "shrinkflation" events. Maybe others will find it useful.
barnabos 3y ago
LOL. I still remember when the South Korean police stole my friends eye-glasses from the metro in Samsu station in Seoul. Buddy was pissed but I couldn't stop laughing at the cop inside the metro booth wearing his glasses. I have no doubt they'll shakedown some poor fools over this demand-side inflation nightmare. Let no good crises go to waste.

81 points by gnicholas 3y ago

achow 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

miffe 3y ago

https://archive.is/PG0Kp https://archive.is/PG0Kp

boomboomsubban 3y ago

Are they only targeting a reduced quantity for the same price or can they somehow police a reduced quality?

lopis 3y ago
South Korea has been known for being very strict about false advertising in packaging. So products there usually look very similar to what's shown in the packaging. I imagine they go beyond reduced quantity.
DarkNova6 3y ago
Wouldn't be impossible to police. If you keep the same packaging, but change the ingredients how likely you think they just made the product better?
bell-cot 3y ago
Depends on the product, and the change. If "Chlorine Bleach" is diluted from 5.0% concentration (NaClO in H2O) to 4.5%, that's simple and obvious. If the gallon of chlorine bleach is replaced with a 96oz. "ultra" version, which is 6.5%? Do some math - that's a slight reduction in the NaClO quantity. If that "ultra" is 6.75%, that's a slight increase in NaClO quantity. Yet the manufacturer's sales and profits will very likely increase - because the "96 oz." will cut their packaging and transportation costs. And most people will not reduce the quantity of "ultra bleach" they use (in their mop bucket, washing machine, etc.) enough to offset the increased concentration. So (on average) customers will pay more money, for the cheaper-on-paper ultra bleach. And that's a very simple situation. How do you police it if Acme Soup Co. is tweaking their recipes, to put cheaper ingredients and more water into each can?
- dmichulke 3y ago
  Since water is specifically cheap (at least in my part of the world), maybe you should have price per dry mass (would work for food and cleaning agents) but that would probably mean they'd add sawdust or starch or sugar. So we could also add those to the "cheap ingredient list" but of course it's a never-ending battle and likely not to the benefit of the consumer. I suppose we're actually dealing with a price distribution so maybe a possible solution is: a graph where X is the procurement price per ingredient and Y is the percentage of the product that is composed of things with ingredient price <= X. You'd want to have as small as possible an area under that curve but then the question is the procurement price and we've gone full circle.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  > If "Chlorine Bleach" is diluted from 5.0% concentration (NaClO in H2O) to 4.5%, that's simple and obvious. This can be surprisingly dangerous. Home canning recipes expect vinegar to have a certain, long-standard level of acidity to be safe. In the past year or two, some brands have very quietly change their acetic acid percentage. Small changes in other ingredients can really throw off safe recipes, like tomatoes going from 15 oz to 14.5 oz. That changes acid levels, too.
  - bell-cot 3y ago
    True. And there's also the all-too-common offense of screwing up old recipes - because miserably large number of those specify quantities like "one can of pie filling", "two package unflavored gelatin", and "one medium onion". Nothing can be done about the granny's collection of recipes on index cards, but I wish there was some "if you wanted to copyright your book or web site full of recipes, then you should have..." penalty for this.

mathieuh 3y ago

It's not just reducing the amount of the product, a lot of products also reformulate to make things cheaper to produce while keeping the price to the consumer the same. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/oct/21/shrinkflation-youre-right-from-gin-to-butter-quantity-and-quality-are-taking-a-hit https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/oct/21/shrinkflation-...

andersrs 3y ago
aka shitflation
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  I’ve seen it called “skimpflation”. Skimp on ingredients instead of shrinking the product.
  - andersrs 3y ago
    That's a good one but there are other forms too. 1. You turn up to buy the store brand of x commodity food but it's out of stock. Stockflation? 2. Bad service. Long waiting times at a restaurant for example.

m_eiman 3y ago

Here in Sweden we have a law that forces shops to provide a "comparison price" on the price tag. Depending on the type of product, it's the price per volume, weight or unit. This makes it trivial to compare prices between products of different package sizes, and to notice shrinkflation. Doesn't help detect changed ingredients that lower quality, though. I thought this was a EU thing, but a quick search suggests that maybe it's something specific to us?

LelouBil 3y ago
We also have this in France. I don't know if it's a legal requirement, but I see it everywhere, so I'm pretty sure it is.
- germanier 3y ago
  Yes, it's an EU-wide legal requirement (directive 98/6/EC on consumer protection in the indication of the prices of products offered to consumers).
scotty79 3y ago
In Poland there's also price per unit but with way smaller font than the price.
mkl 3y ago
You can't use that to detect shrinkflation unless you remember the old price per unit, right? Some NZ supermarkets have that kind of labelling, but not always for every product. My regular (soon to be former) cereal has gone from 700g to 620g to 535g in about 3 months, all for the same price. The box has the same width and height, but the depth has been shrinking.
- andersrs 3y ago
  I'm creating a browser extension to display unit pricing on some NZ supermarket sites that don't have it.
walthamstow 3y ago

Farbklex 3y ago

Good. I would rather have the same amount of product I am used to and pay more than have less of the product in one package. Same goes for quality. Don't degrade your product. If it gets worse, chances are I won't buy it, no matter for what price you sell it. If you instead keep the quality and increase the price then I might be willing to pay up just to enjoy my favourite brand of crisps. That said, it is probably better for me that a regular sized bag of cripsps is now 175g instead of 200g.

ReptileMan 3y ago
>Good. I would rather have the same amount of product I am used to and pay more than have less of the product in one package. There was a joke in eastern europe (after the berlin wall fell, and all kinds of fraud and high inflation were happening) - The average price of a liter of gasoline fell by 4% last month, the average volume of liter of gasoline fell by 7% ...
dewclin 3y ago
> Don't degrade your product. If it gets worse, chances are I won't buy it, no matter for what price you sell it. Completely agree: recently I wanted some peppermints, and I noticed the sugar had been replaced by "glucose syrup". I didn't buy them, and I've done this for other products. Are companies losing sales, which will make them "degrade their product" more as their revenues decline, which will lose sales, and so-on?
- cassepipe 3y ago
  I was with you until I read your example: Replacing a something that is almost pure energy to your body with something that is pure energy won't probably make a big change on how healthy your diet is. If you are giving yourself insulin spikes between meals eating candy, your body will not thank you.
unsupp0rted 3y ago
> If it gets worse, chances are I won't buy it Most people, most times, can’t tell
3y ago

fmajid 3y ago

France also.

iinnPP 3y ago

My wife and I have dabbled (with great success, but not for everyone) in keto for a few months at a time over the last 3 years. Sugar has been added to basically everything at our Canadian grocery stores. Some examples: Creamcheese + 600% Fresh sausage + 300% Cold cuts + 300% Canned tomatoes + 400% Of course this also coincides with Canada's lovely carbon tax (which is applied to our farmers). Taxing the farmer is a problem because every person in the middle is marking up that carbon tax before passing it along. Just tax our food and call it a day. Otherwise companies will just continueto buy the tomatoes from Mexico and SHIP IT ACROSS 3 &$+#+$ COUNTRIES.

selimthegrim 3y ago
Do you know what a border adjustment levy is?
HenryBemis 3y ago
Keto/carnivore helps A LOT (YMMV). It eliminated cravings for me and also cut spending significantly as it removed any impulsive shopping/eating. If you think about it most ultra processed food is packed with salt and/or sugar to hijack your brain and keep you hooked. Big food is not joking around when it comes to addiction.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
> Taxing the farmer is a problem because every person in the middle is marking up that carbon tax before passing it along. Just tax our food and call it a day. Otherwise companies will just continueto buy the tomatoes from Mexico and SHIP IT ACROSS 3 &$+#+$ COUNTRIES. That is the point of a carbon tax, to apply it at the root cause of carbon emissions ensuring no one avoids paying the cost, and hence incentivizing everyone to reduce consumption. And the tomatoes are coming from Mexico because that is where the procurers can get them at the best price to quality ratio for their customers. If you think you can find a better source, I am sure the stores would love to hear it, because they are not paying to ship them across multiple countries for fun.
mthoms 3y ago
Only some carbon taxes apply to farmers. They are specifically exempt from the tax on any gasoline or diesel for their equipment. They aren't exempt from the tax on (for instance) natural gas to heat a barn. Though I believe that is changing with Bill C-234.

dfgfek 3y ago

They should consider policing whatever ruinuous economic policies are creating inflation. Lead by example, then you can shame others.

junofan 3y ago
Definitely playing with fire. Inflation works in practice because people are intrinsically happier when they have more money. And we discovered in 1971 that “the printing press is inexhaustible.” Maybe shifting attention to producers is the goal? Feels like a short-term fix.

preommr 3y ago

This has gotten so crazy that there was a segment on Conan with B.J. Novak where the entire interview was around how Novak thinks Cadbury eggs have gotten smaller. And it's weird because when he brought this up with people, they were obviously passive about it, not knowing for sure since who actually remembers the old price of a single cadbury egg? He even went on the website, and they said that "the eggs haven't gotten smaller, you've just gotten bigger". Not only do they know, they're trying to actively gaslight the population. He then brings out an old egg he found and compares it to a newer one and it's definitely smaller. link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlXLCrzpToo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlXLCrzpToo

brigandish 3y ago

Japan needs this, along with any number above zero of the other good packaging laws mentioned in the comments. Try doing a price comparison when the weight of the item isn't even required to be listed on the pack!

boppo1 3y ago

Does CPI adjust for shrinkflation?

g-b-r 3y ago

In Italy they've tried it with subscriptions a few years ago (of mobile, internet and satellite tv). The monthly subscriptions were turned into "four weeks" (28 days) ones, while “maintaining the same price”. "We're simplifying your subscription, from now on you'll always pay every four weeks instead of a confusing varying month! :) Oh and don't worry the price stays the same! :) :)" The 8.7 actual price increase was an unfortunate, unwanted side effect of course!! :(

carlo2 3y ago

Related to this, I'm in the UK and use online-only supermarket Ocado. And I recently built https://ocamatic.uk/ https://ocamatic.uk/, which scrapes price history for all products. I use it to check how often a given product is on sale, for example. It also shows recent "shrinkflation" events. Maybe others will find it useful.

barnabos 3y ago

LOL. I still remember when the South Korean police stole my friends eye-glasses from the metro in Samsu station in Seoul. Buddy was pissed but I couldn't stop laughing at the cop inside the metro booth wearing his glasses. I have no doubt they'll shakedown some poor fools over this demand-side inflation nightmare. Let no good crises go to waste.