10 ms·

My failed attempt at using a closet as an office

245 points by pamelafox 3y ago

popupeyecare 3y ago
What about one of those office booths/privacy booths?
- pamelafox 3y ago
  I even looked into those but I think they start in the thousands, and are targeted at corporations with actual offices.
- beAbU 3y ago
  Have you spent any significant amount of time in one of them before?
quickthrower2 3y ago
Seems like there are a lot of rooms to try out. I suspect the living room or sun room would offer enough distance so that noise is not a distraction. Use a temporary table if this is not aesthetically pleasing when guests come for example.
- pamelafox 3y ago
  Fair point! I have a 4 yr old and 1 yr old that sometimes must be home in the living room and sun room (which we use as the stroller room), so I really want to be able to have a door between my office and their areas.
xp84 3y ago
Really enjoyed reading this! It’s very informative reading about the effectiveness of each measure you took. I’ve had a room dedicated as my office since moving into our house, but it’s on the main level of our home which means, ahem, a great deal of child noise. I’ve often wondered if a corner of a bedroom, unused as is the rest of upstairs during the day, wouldn’t offer a far more sound-isolated environment. Probably with solid core doors it would be a much better option. It’s funny how most of us feel like we “need” a dedicated room, but really, a bedroom is in many ways an ideal space to give a second, daytime use to, unless you have a partner at home who takes naps or something. Anyway, for now I bought a WeWork subscription!
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > It’s funny how most of us feel like we “need” a dedicated room, but really, a bedroom is in many ways an ideal space to give a second, daytime use to From many years of experimentation and experience, I can say with a high degree of confidence that I really do need a dedicated room. It's not an issue of practicality, it's an issue of mindset. I need a room that is used only for working and nothing else, so that when I'm in there, my brain is triggered to be in "work mode". Also, if I'm sharing a workspace with other uses, that means I can't leave things sprawled out in between work sessions. > for now I bought a WeWork subscription! Ahh, this indicates that we have very different needs indeed! Hotdesking/shared workspaces -- WeWork or otherwise -- don't actually work for me at all.
  - xp84 3y ago
    First, I completely acknowledge the usefulness of putting yourself in a dedicated space for the task of work, helping you to train your mind to focus on work things at work time, and hopefully only at work time. Don't get me wrong, coworking (without an expensive private office) has major downsides, I would love to not have to set up my workspace and tear it down (complete with portable monitor, and keyboard and mouse), and also to not have to lug all this heavy stuff with me daily, but my move was out of sheer necessity because of how loud and disruptive little kids are in the afternoon. The setup/teardown waste 5 minutes daily, but interruptions wasted hours. What I've learned is just that we've each got to find a way to work within the options available to us. With an infinite budget I'd build a super nice 10x20 office in my backyard, but tbh the proximity to a well-meaning little kid who craves my attention would still limit the effectiveness of that plan.
- tetromino_ 3y ago
  > a bedroom is in many ways an ideal space to give a second, daytime use to, unless you have a partner at home who takes naps or something Or, as is fairly common among tech workers, your partner's sleep schedule differs from yours (one of you needs to work late nights or early mornings due cross-timezone meetings, on-calls, deadlines, performing childcare during part of normal business hours, etc.) Or, as is fairly common among parents with young children, the bedroom routinely sleeps 3+ people.
thsksbd 3y ago
The acoustic was a waste of money. Noise cancelling headsets with a boom microphone would outperform all of those. The real problem (aside from the space) is the air quality. There's just no going around needing to put a duct/return to the room.
- pamelafox 3y ago
  It felt like the foam did improve audio quality but I think the only thing that measurably reduced noise from outside was solid core door. Pricey though! Agreed that a good microphone is a huge help. I currently use Elgato Wave:3 which is not as fancy as one can go.
  - gunnarmorling 3y ago
    Thanks for that post, quite the journey! If you're looking for a new mic, I can recommend the Rode Procaster, it's a a dynamic mic which hardly does pick up any ambient noise whatsoever. I am very happy with it, it should be quite close to your mouth though (not everyone likes that), and I had to get a pre-amplifier (CloudLifter) for some extra gain. Without it, volume was a bit low. Here's a write-up of my set-up touching on the mic and some other stuff: https://www.morling.dev/blog/whats-on-my-desk/ https://www.morling.dev/blog/whats-on-my-desk/.
    - pamelafox 3y ago
      Thanks for the recs! It's so hard to decide when/whether to upgrade my mic. Would Rode Procaster be better than the Elgato Wave:3 (what I have now)? They seem to cost similarly.
      - gunnarmorling 3y ago
        I have never used the Elgato, so I can't speak to its qualities. When I was on the market for a mic though, I've found the Procaster to be on a completely different level than any USB mic I had tried (the Procaster connects via XLR, i.e. an audio interface is needed). It just gives you this nice soothing "professional audio" sound. No affiliations with the vendor btw, just really happy with the mic :)
margalabargala 3y ago
This seems like a case of lots of small incremental changes being slower, more expensive, and ultimately worse than one big change that addresses the problem. The office shown is extremely large and already big enough for two people, as was initially tried. The only real problem is the noise. Instead of having a bunch of work done trying to change the nature of the closet, it seems like the best solution would be to have the contractor construct an entirely new wall dividing the office room in two. Rather than being in a small closet, they now have a large room, with a big window and door, etc. A real wall blocks the noise they're concerned about.
- pamelafox 3y ago
  I suggested that to my partner! He was not a fan of having a whole wall installed, sadly. It also would have been a bit difficult as that office space had a high ceiling, skylight, and basement entrance exactly where walk would go. I still fantasize about it though.
  - hedgehog 3y ago
    Looking at the floor plan I'm curious if some of the storage area is up for grabs. If it's currently unfinished space then it's an opportunity to build in a lot of noise isolation (separated inner wall and a lot of insulation) with shelves on the outside to maximize the remaining storage area.
    - pamelafox 3y ago
      Yep, I suggested that as well, but I assume it'd be at least 10K, since the "storage room" still has its garage door from when it used to be part of the garage. So that whole wall would need to be re-built, and the room would need to get ducting, vents. Extra 5 or 10K for that conditioning? Soo, it might happen one day, but I'm not ready to go all in on that yet.
      - hedgehog 3y ago
        Ah, yes I would imagine cost to do the work in the Bay area would be pretty significant unless you can do much of it yourself. Being nonstructural it's not high risk to DIY but with small kids around that's a big project.
bombcar 3y ago
I've been pleasantly surprised by the improved noise cancelling on tools like Zoom and even Teams, a dog can explode nearby or a child start bawling and nobody can hear it.
- teddyh 3y ago
  > a dog can explode nearby Does that happen often where you are?
  - bombcar 3y ago
    It’s relatively common, and the smaller the dog the louder the explosion apparently. I have a theory based on inverse volume and volume combined with relative importance of the call I’m on. If I’m muted on a boring call it seems to defuse all known dogs.
    - actionablefiber 3y ago
      For the sake of your local dogs I wish you many more boring calls where you have nothing to contribute.
    - glitchc 3y ago
      Hmph, silly anime dogs!
hnlmorg 3y ago
I’m not going to criticise the authors choices because each situation is unique. But if you’re both working from home then I do wonder if your money is better spent moving out of the Bay Area and thus somewhere you can have a 3 or 4 bedroom house. Rather than trying to suffer through an ineffective home office. This is what I did. I had two young children (still young but not as young as when this anecdote happened) and we ended up moving to accommodate for working from home. Before we moved I was finding my home office space (a literal garage) was freezing during the winter and boiling during the summer. And like the author, it was affecting my ability to work. So my options were go back to the office, or buy something more suitable for working from home. It also came with the bonus of a bigger garden for our kids to play in.
- mindyopeas 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - hnlmorg 3y ago
    > The passive aggressive irony in this crazy. I’m not being passive aggressive in the slightest. If anything, I have an appreciation for how hard their situation is because I’ve been there myself. Let me rephrase my original point: I was in a similar situation and realised that hacking my house wasn’t going to cut it. But I also understand that my personal circumstances might have been different from the authors in ways that aren’t publicised. What is disappointing is that you felt you needed to create a burner account to post your criticism.
    - mindyopeas 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - hnlmorg 3y ago
        I was in the same situation as the author and the purpose of my comment was to share my experiences. It’s hard working and raising kids. So I fully appreciate their position. And that’s the last I’m going to say on the topic.
vasco 3y ago
I worked with a guy that made it work for 2 years. Small closet as well. We dearly called it his cloffice!
shipscode 3y ago
My experience was that small spaces drive you crazy and make you do stuff like this. Thanks for reminding me why I can no longer live in urban areas.
- rconti 3y ago
  Only tangentially related to your comment, but I've always found that people who live in dense environments complain about their neighbors less than those who have more space. People who have an acre or five of land see to ALWAYS be annoyed at whatever their neighbors are doing! Maybe it's selection bias.
  - dgfitz 3y ago
    I couldn’t disagree more. I’d be interested in any sort of evidence, or something, to expand on your claim. I have lived in various areas that fit that description my entire life, never experienced annoyed neighbors or heard 3rd party complaints, etc.
ryandrake 3y ago
When I made the decision to go fully remote, the first obvious step was to move out of the Bay Area. One of my hard requirements was property with a separate physical building for a home office. This requirement vastly reduced the set of viable homes to choose from, vastly constrained the neighborhood choice to more rural areas, and somewhat increased the cost. But after more than a year of working this way, I have to say it was well worth it. I wouldn't want to go back to work-from-spare-bedroom or work-from-closet. If you can manage it financially and you can culturally manage to live in a more rural area, you'll won't want to go back, either. First, and obviously, it's quiet. No more kids playing in the house chaos. It's private, and can be locked separately, so I can work on my company's confidential stuff. Economical to heat and cool, since it is a very small space. You also get that intangible "separation" of your work life from your home life that your commute used to give you--hard to explain. A brief walk outside to and from the office allows me to reset into work-mode or home-mode. Highly recommended if you can swing it!
- vondur 3y ago
  Luckily, I convinced my wife to let me purchase her a pre-fabricated building for an office in February of 2020. We already had an existing concrete slab (12" x 12") where I had a 12" x 10" building put in. It took the work crew about 4 hours to build it. Later I had electrical installed and drywall an insulation put in. She really likes the space.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - itake 3y ago
    JW, how much was the total cost and where are you located? did you need permitting?
    - vondur 3y ago
      We are located in the SoCal Area. Since the building was under 12 x 12, no permitting was needed. The cost for the building itself was $5000. I had the electrician run power (1 20 Amp circuit) and install some lighting, that was $1600. To have the drywall installed was around $800. I believe we spent less than $100 to paint the interior.
cobertos 3y ago
Ah, I had the same sort of issues with temperature in my office when I moved into my tiny home[0]. Sunlight was a problem too. Much happier in my new office, even though it's shared! Luckily our schedules don't overlap and dual occupancy hasn't been an issue but once. [0]: https://cobertos.com/blog/post/tiny-home-big-door https://cobertos.com/blog/post/tiny-home-big-door . Scroll down to "Lessons Learned"
- pamelafox 3y ago
  Great writeup! I did recently get honeycomb light filtering blinds for my bedroom office window, as afternoon sun gets way too bright, but thermal curtains make it too dark. So now its: - morning: no curtains - afternoon: honeycomb blinds - night: thermal
  - cobertos 3y ago
    Ah, I'm having sun problems in my new office too. I just draped a blanket over the window, but a two tier system like you describe might give me the best of both worlds
aj7 3y ago
I used a walk-in closet for an office. It was great. I had a small glass-topped table in a 6’ x 8’ closet. However there were clothing closet bars on two walls, an extra bureau of draws, and piles of junk, too. Now this was in Florida. Besides paying bills, I had to prepare a large document in support of a $50k damage claim due to a hurricane. My report was so convincing they paid every cent. I therefore have fond memories of that closet office.
jldugger 3y ago
What is going on in this floor plan? A bedroom with no doors and which you must travel through to get from office to kitchen. But also: an office with a closet, and then a bonus "storage" room and actual closed door garage.
- Nition 3y ago
  It's huge for only having two bedrooms!
- analog31 3y ago
  My first thought was: Renovated shotgun house. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_house https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_house
- pamelafox 3y ago
  Lol, good question. The house is from the 1950s and originally had a detached two-door garage, without the office space. Then they turned the two-door garage into the office + storage room (which still has the door opener in it!), and added a single-door garage next to it. I think the obvious thing to do is to replace the new temporary curtain track in my bedroom with an actual wall, so that we can walk to the office without going through bedroom, but we don't need to do that yet. It'd help with sound though, if I keep with my office in the bedroom.
- twic 3y ago
  I believe the house was built based on an AD&D dungeon map.
dekhn 3y ago
I built a small corner of my garage into a work space. I have a portable AC and space heater for temp control, the walls are lined with soundproof acoustic panels (denser than the foam in this article's pictures). the space is enclosed using some 2x4s and plywood panels (all of which can be broken down quickly and reassembled, there's nothing permanent). I built a sliding barn door. I didn't put a huge amount of effort into the sound isolation, the acoustic panels mainly reduce echos but do nothing for low vibrations (people walking around the house, cars idling outside, airplanes). I have total control over the lighting (I don't want to see any daylight when I'm working). It can get a little stuffy if I don't turn on the AC/fan. Personally I love working in a little space with my back to a wall. Because of the acoustic tile, many people think I'm just in a work office. I find the limited view (basically I'm looking at a monitor with a wall right behind it) keeps me from getting distracted.
- digging 3y ago
  > (I don't want to see any daylight when I'm working) Interesting! Can you say more? I can't stand being away from large windows during the day.
  - dekhn 3y ago
    it's a combination of finding it challenging to look at a screen when it's really bright around (contrast loss) as well as I find the view distracting. I've already had multiple million-dollar views of the Golden Gate Bridge, etc, now I just want to concentrate on my screen.
    - digging 3y ago
      > I've already had multiple million-dollar views Ah. Maybe I should stop looking for life/work advice on HN, lol. (Don't take this as a personal slight at all please.)
- immy 3y ago
  Concrete floor?
ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
Speaking only for myself, I'm a bit "spectrumish," so I am actually claustrophilic. The closet would probably do fine for me. As it is, I have a 48" standing desk, in the corner of my living room, and that works fine, but I also don't have the same needs as the author. I do occasional Zoom calls, and Bose QC45 headphones, and the Zoom backgrounds, work fine. I do have a portable green screen, that I can set up, if I really need it. I do spend the majority of every day at the desk (I'm at it, right now). I have a cat that doesn't like my desk, so I only occasionally get demands for head-scratching, and he leaves me alone, otherwise. I did try having a separate room for the office, but found I didn't like being separated from the household. My wife is very quiet, and is glad to leave me alone, and pursue her own interests (and I leave her alone).
- pamelafox 3y ago
  I actually did like the closet in terms of feeling all cozy! But I can't deal with the feeling of overheating. I actually get something like hot flashes these days, so the feeling of heat can be particularly uncomfortable. If it was well conditioned and ventilated, I would have happily stayed. But I'm also okay with my little space in the bedroom now :) Bose headphones are great, one of the best investments I've made, but they don't reduce the noise in recordings, so I had to find other forms of sound reduction.
rdl 3y ago
It seems like work-from-home is going to be more of a thing over the next 30+ years than it was over the past 30 years (leaving the past 3 years as an exception to both). Work from home also seems to often involve multiple people in the same household working independently (both having two adults working at different jobs, as well as kids working on educational stuff). This seems like it should change how houses are designed. A separate "writer's cottage" or "workshop" has a lot of value, but I've always just had N+1 bedrooms even when I lived alone so I could dedicate a bedroom as an office (and in my current place, the biggest bedroom is the office; the small bedroom is my actual bedroom).
hownottowrite 3y ago
My first rented office was a single room that measured less than 50 square feet. I was able to get a desk and a chair in there but that was it. It had one of those old time doors, half frosted glass. I felt like a noir private eye.
- wombatpm 3y ago
  I hope it had high ceilings and dormer windows over the doorway as well. Used to see a doctor in an old building like that. Found it really cool.
  - hownottowrite 3y ago
    This one didn’t but my next office did and it was amazing. It even had metal fire escape that I used all the time.
dfgfek 3y ago
[flagged]
tantalor 3y ago
Heh, never heard it pronounced as "viz code", that's unique. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO9yHm8zKsk&t=23s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO9yHm8zKsk&t=23s
- pamelafox 3y ago
  Am trying to convince the team that is The One True Way but actually they made me re-dub my last video to say "V S Code". Sooo I might be wrong ;-)
dougmwne 3y ago
This was a hoot to read. Thanks for sharing it and popping into the comments. I was laughing all throughout because you have so much space but are still stuck with a difficult optimization problem. My partner and I are semi-Digital Nomads and over the years of working from “home” I’d guess we created makeshift office space in about 30 different temporary homes. We are usually somewhere between a 1br and a 3 br, so it always takes a ton of creativity to wrangle the desks, chairs, noise isolation and manage to keep out of the way of your living space. We’ve worked in kitchens, bedrooms, living room couches, closets, woodshops, unheated out buildings, cabins, chalets, hotel rooms (with the furniture against the windows during a hurricane), poolside, and basements during heat waves. Probably my favorite was a 14 person camp bunkhouse in a national forest that I had all to myself with a little space heater to get me through the fall chill before hiking over to the main house after work. My biggest trick is to make sure at the end of the workday you can close a door, shut a curtain, or throw a big sheet over the desk so that you have some physical separation between work and home.
wheresmycraisin 3y ago
If you only have one or two zoom calls per day, I suggest doing it in your car. It's likely quieter than anywhere in your house.
WendyTheWillow 3y ago
It's fascinating to me that "work from home" for many really means, "work from anywhere but the same place your coworkers are." Comments about "separate buildings" and "renting office space" kind of underscores the real value wfh provides; less human interaction. The only problem with that is human interaction actually ends up making much work easier, not harder.
- lolinder 3y ago
  Separate building on the same property is still very much "from home"—you have no commute, can eat lunch with your family, could invite the dog in if you want, can do laundry during breaks, etc. Renting office space less so, but it still provides another key benefit to remote work: you can live anywhere. Office space doesn't have to be in a high rise, it can be unused commercial space in a suburb or even in a small town. If you don't like remote work that's fine, but there's not much point in posting your caricatures of remote work on a thread filled with people who enjoy working remotely.
  - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
    It's hardly a caricature, when you realize that by working remotely, you're asking someone else to pay the costs of you not being in the room. Maybe for some it's fine, and that's what your manager can do for you, but if you're WFH and your whole team isn't, the cost is shifted to someone else. But for workplaces that presume WFH is cost-free and all benefits, someone there is suffering on behalf of the people who WFH.
    - lolinder 3y ago
      You talk as though most people who work from home are doing so as an exception to the rule— maybe that's how it is in your organization, but by now most companies have established official policies for WFH. Mine decided to go fully remote, others demanded a returned to the office, and others set up a hybrid system. If your company landed somewhere on that spectrum that you're unhappy with, that sucks, but that suggests it's time to get a new job, not bitterly caricature your co-workers as only wanting to work remotely in order to avoid interacting with you.
mkl 3y ago
Sounds like you need a cancelling microphone. At my university we had to make a lot of videos for distance learning, and after quite a bit of experimenting we used Poly Blackwire 5200 headsets [1]. Not only do these headsets cancel out office noise, they cancel out traffic, planes right overhead, weedeaters right outside, etc. Any noise from more than a few metres away, except for loud sharp cracks (e.g. door slamming), seems to just disappear. [1] https://www.poly.com/us/en/products/headsets/blackwire/blackwire-5200 https://www.poly.com/us/en/products/headsets/blackwire/black...
- pamelafox 3y ago
  I have fantastic noise cancelling headphones from Bose, but that doesn't reduce the sound for folks listening to my microphone or for recorded audio in my videos. I do also have a pretty decent microphone (Elgato Wave 3) with a pop filter and arm, which definitely helps, but you can still hear my partner in recordings.
  - mkl 3y ago
    Cancelling microphone, not cancelling headphones. The mic boom has two microphones, one pointing at your mouth, and one pointing out, and by combining the two external noise can be cancelled.
    - pamelafox 3y ago
      Ahh, sorry, I misread! Thanks for the recs. There have been a few other mic recommendations in the thread, so I'll have to figure out what my next upgrade will be.
perryh2 3y ago
Here's my "guest bathroom desk": https://twitter.com/perryfromsoma/status/1351396588615204872 https://twitter.com/perryfromsoma/status/1351396588615204872
- pamelafox 3y ago
  Lol, that's amazing. Doesn't the toilet get in the way of your legs though? I found I need enough space under the desk for crossing my legs.
fsckboy 3y ago
Some of my best and most rewarding long term adult friendships have come as the result of working with people in various office configurations. I'm astonished at the strong desire for physical isolation that so many people here are ever on about. But, not my business, you do you. One by one. Alone :) oh, and on top of that, there is a heavy overlap here with people who wish to flee any city, it's an interesting correlation. I love cities, for the daily variety they offer on so many dimensions. But this is not why I'm writing. I just wanted to share a "home office arrangement" that I invented which I like quite a bit. It's probably more for a bachelor situation than couple, depends on your other, and not for the smallest of spaces, but it's a way to make a space like a living room do double duty. I've done it in several houses/apartments I've lived in and I won't go back. The trick is this: if your couch has its back to a wall, move the couch out from the wall, and hide a desk and chair behind it, facing in the same direction as the couch. You can still use your living room as a living room, and if you're pounding a keyboard all day, a living room is a nice place to sit; I don not like staring at walls, I like depth. moderate clutter will remain mostly hidden, and you can also see the TV if you want to watch youtubes while you're on your keyboard.
- footy 3y ago
  I love cities, never want to move out of my very downtown apartment, and also never want to work in an office again. People (especially city people) who equate a preference for remote work with a "strong desire for physical isolation" must live very different lives than I do. The fact I work remotely means I have more flexibility and social energy at the end of the day to spend socializing with friends or at after-work sports leagues. When my best friend's mom died it let me spend TONS of time at their apartment so they would not be alone. It let me housesit for my partner's mother. Before we moved in together it let me work from their place and see more of them. I can, and often do, have lunch with friends who live nearby. Working remotely and isolation are just not on the same axis for me. It helps that my company has a very strong remote culture, but the job I had during early COVID did not and I still felt quite satisfied when we went remote. 100% agreed on the depth thing though. Nothing worse than staring at a wall while working-I like that from my desk I can see my entire living room, my front door, my bookshelves, etc.
kentonv 3y ago
As a child of two architects, I have to know... How did this house end up designed such that half the house is only accessible from the other half by passing through someone's bedroom?
- bonniemuffin 3y ago
  It's almost a shotgun house, which is weirdly common in some places despite being THE WORST architectural style for homes. I lived in one once, and having to walk through the bedroom to get from one side to the other is just as bad as it sounds. Bad for couples, even worse for roommates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_house https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_house
- pamelafox 3y ago
  Lol, see my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38715097 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38715097
vidanay 3y ago
I've often thought about renting a private office "downtown." Think along the lines of Sam Spade or such film noir where there are small private offices along a central hallway (complete with frosted door glass and my name stenciled on the glass. https://twitter.com/NoirAlley/status/836699700266995713 https://twitter.com/NoirAlley/status/836699700266995713
beAbU 3y ago
Is the layout of that house normal? The garage, storage, office and bedroom are all a single "room" with no corridor, leaving you with no way to close of any of these spaces (for privacy) without blocking off other parts of the house to the rest of the occupants?
- pamelafox 3y ago
  Nope! It's weird. See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38715097 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38715097
stevage 3y ago
I'm surprised to see the desk with her computer and stuff right next to the bed where toddler sleeps. I guess she packs it all away or somehow makes it toddler proof each evening.
- pamelafox 3y ago
  It is a standing desk, so sometimes I raise it, if the little ones are messing with stuff. They usually have more fun destroying the rest of the house, however. :)
sircastor 3y ago
Last year we had an exchange student and an au pair, both of whom required their own room - so I got moved out of my office and into the space where our washer and dryer were. Aside from getting pretty warm in the summer, it was fine. My work reimbursed me for a nice pair of noise canceling headphones and that was the biggest issue. I have since been relocated back into a bedroom after the student and Au Pair left. In some ways. The only downside really has been that the table next to me stayed in the room and my wife adopted it as her workspace…
softgrow 3y ago
A least one Japanese railway company has set up business https://www.stationwork.jp https://www.stationwork.jp with closets for rent in stations. I've never used one, but perhaps they have the formula for a closet office that might be useful. Looking around the non-closet options they have I'm not sure I like the idea of "workation" at a resort.
ShakataGaNai 3y ago
In regards to the lighting. > "best lighting is actual daylight in front of you ... Replacing the existing office lights with very warm toned lights" So Daylight is good, yes. That's 5500k to 6500k, depending on how you measure it. It's NOT very warm-toned; in fact, it's cool white. The lights linked are 2700k. You can use them, but your camera is just going to try and compensate for the yellow hue. If you're going to buy something specifically for lighting video calls/recording, you should find something daylight with a higher CRI ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-CRI_LED_lighting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-CRI_LED_lighting ). You don't need to go crazy, but the difference between those $1 LED's and the $20 LED's you see at the store, is probably the CRI. If you want GOOD lighting setup, go for 3 or 4 point lighting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_lighting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_lighting -- You don't need a huge number of expensive lights, just lights set off to the side. Personally, I hate ring lights because they are designed for you to put the camera in the middle of them. If you have glasses, all you can see in the camera is the ring reflection. Even if you don't have glasses, you're now staring into the center of a giant blinding light. No thanks.
- pamelafox 3y ago
  Great tips! In my bedroom office, I have a west-facing window behind my monitor, with thermal curtains for night and honeycomb light filtering blinds for the afternoon when sun is bright. Also an overhead light. I think its pretty good lighting, though daylight is inconsistent as a lighting source, so that makes it hard to stitch together recordings made across a workday and have them look cohesive.
  - ShakataGaNai 3y ago
    Yea. To the left of my desk is a southern facing window that in the morning is blindingly bright. It's also subject to fun weather effects like partly cloudy days where the light can vary wildly. If I'm doing something I need to care about, then I just close the shades as much as possible and rely entirely on my lighting setup. It's a little annoying to be blocking out the nice sunny day in favor of artificial lighting...but that's what it takes sometimes. Then on my breaks I just make sure to go outside and enjoy said sun.
epiccoleman 3y ago
I very much feel the pain, my house is too small and we really could use two more bedrooms. Alas, that's not in the cards, so my office is the garage. I installed a mini split and it does a great job keeping it cool in the summer, and an ok job keeping it warm in the winter. It's actually an excellent room for me - I use it as an office, my workout stuff is out there, and I play music out there too. The only disadvantages are the fact that it can't be solely dedicated to work, that I have to dedicate a good amount of the space to bikes, toys, mower, etc, and of course the minor quibble that there's no room for the cars in the garage. (But honestly, when your house is just over 1000sqft, what kind of madman would give up an extra 400 in the garage just for cars?!)
lacrimacida 3y ago
I havent read the source yet just wanted to point out to make sure the closet is well ventilated, get a co2 sensor just to stay safe if using a windowless room is really a must.
m3kw9 3y ago
Is it a round about way to say she’s coming out of the closet?
alexpotato 3y ago
I spent ~2.5 years working out of a smallish walk in closet during and after COVID. It was both kinda quiet as it was on the 2nd floor and the kids played in the basement during lockdown. Part of me misses it as the "snug" feeling helped with focus as there weren't really any visual distractions. I did worry about the CO2 later in the stretch of using the closet and still worry about it now that I'm in a basement office that has no windows (but there is a window in the larger basement). Funny story about working out of a closet: During COVID, I worked at a place that was famously a bit of "meat grinder" with long hours, short tenure etc. I realized about half way through that I was very good at giving at honest sales pitch about the pros and cons of working there to the point that Recruiting would have candidates on the fence talk to me to try to "close" them. I would usually start each call with "Yes, this is my closet" and end with "Now, if you come work with us, you TOO might end up working in a closet". I had a 100% close rate so I guess it wasn't that bad of a joke or I'm a better salesman than I thought.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Being honest about (at least some) downsides helps incredibly when going for the close.
corytheboyd 3y ago
The year is 2036. With the office gone, your whole identity is only known through your online persona, the effectiveness of which is gauged by your audio and video quality. In the days of yore, a crisp suit and power tie would send a message. Now, it’s your AV. Tacky? Yes, but so was the suit. This summer, Audio Feedback Loop is proud to release “Can You See My Screen”, the thrilling sci-fi event of the year that has critics dropping praise like “we can’t hear you” and “for the love of god, figure out how desktop audio works”.
immy 3y ago
I see your bedroom has hardwood and assume the majority does as well. Has it survived your toddler?
- pamelafox 3y ago
  Yep, maybe a bit scratched up. Also some black mold from when we first used a floor mattress without a frame under it. Never put mattresses directly on hardwood! Lesson learned.
rcarr 3y ago
Imagine all the time, money and energy we would all collectively save if both home and commerical real estate prices were just reasonably priced.
wuster 3y ago
pro tip: if you're dwelling in apartments and can't spare a bedroom or closet, use a "grow tent" ($150-$250 on Amazon) to isolate your workspace from toddlers and spouses - big enough for standing desks - most noise isolation headphones will clean up your audio for meetings - add whatever solid color backdrop or virtual backgrounds to clean up your video - built-in air circulation to/from windows
jay-barronville 3y ago
I know I’m digressing here, but I’m curious: Are you not concerned with putting the layout and details/photos of the inside of your home on the internet? (Yes, I know there are other ways to retrieve layouts.)
- llamaInSouth 3y ago
  Why would that concern you? and yes you can get it either way.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- pamelafox 3y ago
  I figure that property owners are public record already, and those plans are already on the public real estate website, so I feel I’m not technically revealing more than what can already be discovered. Maybe I’m wrong though!
  - jay-barronville 3y ago
    Fair enough. By that logic though, most things the average person considers personal or sensitive can be discovered yet it’s generally considered good practice to not actively expose intimate aspects of our lives to the world. E.g., it’s relatively easy to find most folks’ home addresses yet most folks wouldn’t feel comfortable posting their home address on the internet, and if someone else does it, it’s considered doxxing. Anyway, I was just curious. Thank you for answering.
JohnBooty 3y ago
After three years of working from home, I was going stir-crazy. I was lucky enough to have a decent office... but still, stir-crazy. I set up a second workstation in the living room. This was not super cheap - a "nice" chair/desk/monitor with decent ergonomics with passes partner acceptability testing is going to be tough to do for much less than $1-$2K. Then my wife started working from home. The living room was no longer a viable place to work. So this year I started turning the garage into a third office.... siiigh. Still, if you earn a decent living from working from home, investing a few % of that salary back into your home office setup is generally one of the best investments you can make.
tqi 3y ago
Has anyone had any success using an office-pod[1]? They don't seem cheap, but do seem less expensive than converting an otherwise unfinished space (like a basement or garage). [1] https://www.wayfair.com/commercial-office-furniture/sb0/privacy-booths-c1873196.html https://www.wayfair.com/commercial-office-furniture/sb0/priv...
- dustincoates 3y ago
  We have them at our office, and they suffer from many of the problems in the blog post. The lighting is atrocious, and they can get stuffy after a while. At least for the small ones, you also have very little room. A point in their favor, though, is that they are very soundproof, at least the ones that we have.
- spcebar 3y ago
  One of my previous offices had one. It was cool, but very small and uncomfortable. In terms of mobility and spaciousness, it's sort of like working out of a coach airplane seat.
vzaliva 3y ago
Although I have a comfortable home office, I still rent a small office within walking distance. It has a conference room and desks for both myself and my business partner. I've found I'm more focused and productive working from there, as it helps me mentally separate work from my personal life. There's a daily ritual of 'going to work' and then coming home, which allows me to switch modes between 'work' and 'family.' This was especially helpful during the COVID lockdown.
ToJans 3y ago
I used to have a full blown desk, and a library with lots of books behind me, but I replaced all of it with a "temporary" hack: an Ikea closet [1]. I say"temporary" because I haven't changed it since the start. It's also very convenient: when I open up the door, the closet lights automatically turn on, and when I close the whole thing, it's like the office isn't even there... I'm still working on convincing my wife to put a baby grand in the reclaimed space however, which seems to be a bigger task. Ah well, first class world problems I guess... Move along people! [1] https://twitter.com/ToJans/status/1569383616328736770?t=__BEnAmtBrs1fxqkxx7YWw&s=19 https://twitter.com/ToJans/status/1569383616328736770?t=__BE...
jmspring 3y ago
Everyone is different. I've been mostly/fully remote for a couple of decades now. My primary machine is a 14" MBP (sometimes a 16" MBP for clients). I use "multiple desktops" religiously on MacOS. This pattern works for me and I can work from my couch, bed, kitchen table the same way. When traveling, this pattern works as well. Is it optimal? No. I prefer mechanical keyboards and have multiple servers in my house. But a consistent work solution is more important.
lloeki 3y ago
An interesting read. I've been WFH for 5 or so years, I have the uncanny ability to be able to work anywhere, anytime, a sort of mind switch that flicks itself - or doesn't, and then I'm screwed - irrespective of location, and then the surrounding world fades out when I am in my mental space. I never had an issue with my partner or otherwise people being in the same space... until I had a kid. That changed everything, when our child is home I just stopped being able to not pay attention, even when they are in another room, and now I definitely see the - previously moot - benefit I would get from a dedicated room with a door + soundproofing. As for the bedroom solution, that just would not work for me. My bedroom is a sanctuary: work - and any other cause of concern or otherwise stress - needs to stay out of it or my ability to sleep soundly - or at all - suffers greatly. Regarding lighting, I set up the whole house with smart bulbs and set up Adaptive Lighting with Home Assistant, which also helped a lot with sleep issues. To each his own I guess.
sjducb 3y ago
I notice a room labelled storage. Why not use that?
- pamelafox 3y ago
  That storage room is half of an old 2-door garage. It still has the garage door instead of a wall, floors are concrete, single outlet and light, and has no heating or air conditioning. So it would require similar upgrades but in a much larger space, so fairly costly. Might do it in the future though!
buro9 3y ago
I work in a closet, it's in a London converted Victorian terrace house, a flat. The closet is 1.3m wide, 1.8m long... it is small, but it works. There is background noise, from my partner, and occasionally neighbours and building work in their homes which can be as close as 2-3m from my window, but it works. I attribute this working to several things: 1. buy a great microphone such as a Shure SM7B with a tight polar pattern focused on the person speaking as this will prevent the pickup of virtually all noise outside of that. this mic needs to be an inch or two from your mouth so you need a decent mic arm. any near-field studio monitor speakers are adequate, your mic will _not_ pick up the sound due to the polar pattern. 2. buy decent lighting, there's a lot online but you can default to Elgato Key Lights and these can do daylight temperatures as well as evening / night temperatures. you want two of these positioned around 45-40' angle offset in front of you on either side and just above the camera (you will not be staring into a blinding light), and one to light up the space behind you. alternatively a single key light with an umbrella / dome, and then 2 lights doing the environmental. this is a useful YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpEeYwrkBPU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpEeYwrkBPU 3. if you happen to wear glasses and you have a DSLR as a webcam then consider getting a circular polarizing filter, as then you can remove screen reflections from your glasses trivially. I do not use sound dampening / conditioning in the room, I have some books on a shelf which helps to reduce / prevent echoes, but otherwise I've done nothing despite it being a box closet / room. I do agree 100% with Pamela that air quality is the biggest issue... everything else can be changed easily. Any CO2 meter, i.e. the Aranet 4 or equivalent, will tell you when to open the window a little, if the CO2 level goes above 700 I open the window. The office is tiny, there's a lot of equipment in here... and so I never need to heat this room even when it's below freezing outside. In the Summer I need to aircon it, I use a portable aircon... and despite it being noisy for me, the Shure SM7B is basically miraculous and the sound of the portable aircon is extremely low and all of the noise reduction software works perfectly against it (I use Nvidia Broadcast noise reduction only during the Summer when I run the aircon). Closet offices can work, but the microphone is virtually everything. it looks like Pamela is using the Elgato Wave, it's an OK mic and has a lot of gimmicks... but truly, just changing to a Shure SM7B https://www.shure.com/en-GB/products/microphones/sm7b https://www.shure.com/en-GB/products/microphones/sm7b and combining it with an audio interface like the SSL2 https://solidstatelogic.com/products/ssl2 https://solidstatelogic.com/products/ssl2 with a FetHead on the cable https://www.tritonaudio.com/fethead https://www.tritonaudio.com/fethead would've cured most of the problems. Only the air quality is hard to solve.
hasoleju 3y ago
There were some great ideas in the article that would also improve the working conditions in corporate offices. I especially like the curtain behind the chair in order to make sure that no one crosses the video stream accidentally. This is something that happens a lot in corporate open floor settings. Apart from that monitoring the air quality is also something that usually is not done in the corporate environment.
ThinkBeat 3y ago
If the drawing is to scale, and the office was created in the area called storage it does not look that small to me. I was expecting a walk-in closet. If I spent most of my time streaming and recording, I would not want any sunlight. The sun changes position, there are clouds and rain, all of which create different lighting conditions, and makes it difficult to create a consistent palette of colors. Most noticeable if you are recording (as she does) and you do one session from morning til lunch, one session in the evening and the last session tomorrow morning. The colors would be changing. (As a guy who spent years as a pro photographer these things scare me.) She may use the righlight to overpower the sun that would mostly work but it would look harsh. I think she should look into microphones. I am not sure what she uses, but you can get microphones + limiter/compressor that would make it fairly easy to not pick up stray sounds. (up to a point).
- bombcar 3y ago
  Even if the mic doesn’t pick it up, you might still be able to, which can be distracting.
dubeye 3y ago
I have a tiny cupboard as an office. It was originally supposed to be temporary but I prefer it to my old big office. It’s very cosy and focus is entirely on the screen. However I’m alone in the house when I work. So I can leave the door open for fresh air and no noise issue. I don’t think OP’s have much to do with the size of the office
bearsnowstorm 3y ago
Not quite the same but when we were rebuilding during COVID we knew we wanted two good WFH spaces but really only had room for one (tiny) office - as our second we built a shelf in our bedroom wardrobe that lifts up to reveal a work surface and a 32" monitor - inspired by this guy's work on ikeahackers: https://ikeahackers.net/2020/10/fold-out-desk-home-office-pax.html https://ikeahackers.net/2020/10/fold-out-desk-home-office-pa... Works really well and given the cost of space for a second desk it was a very cost effective solution - only minimally affects the utility of the wardrobe as a wardrobe. (We didn't build the laptop holder this guy describes, the laptop just gets sat on top of the clothes in the drawer below that shelf with attention to make sure we're not blocking a fan intake. We had a powerpoint and a ethernet port put into the back of the wardrobe but actually we just end up using Wi-Fi mostly.)
- pamelafox 3y ago
  Nice! I think we’re going to turn the closet office back into a closet, add built in shelves, but make sure one of the shelves is at desk level and that others are removable. That way we still have a backup desk.
elric 3y ago
Possibly unpopular opinion, but I wonder if one day we'll realize that having home offices is less efficient than having actual offices. The same goes for gyms. Sure, it's nice to have an exercise bike and some dumbbells at home, but a real gym is better equipped, easier to maintain (as in: I don't have to maintain it), and gets a lot more use out of it than my home gym ever would. I don't want to work out of a closet. I hate working from my living room. I don't want to move to a bigger abode just so I can WFH more easily. A shitty open plan office is worse than my home office, but I miss having a nice office a short commute away.
- cheschire 3y ago
  I feel like WeWork was, at its core, a good idea. If there were more small office parks near people’s neighborhoods, where desks could be leased long term for reasonable amounts, “remote” work would be a lot more comfortable than centralized office space. And with all these office building real estate issues, I’m honestly shocked a replacement for WeWork hasn’t successfully made an impact in this space yet.
- bradfa 3y ago
  It's not that unpopular of an opinion, just maybe it's unpopular within the HN demographic. I work remote. I rent an office about 3 miles from my home. If I continue to work remotely for 10 years, my total cost in rent (which includes heating/cooling/electric/etc) will still be less than my family expected to pay to put an office-sized addition onto our house. My office also has fiber internet now which I cannot get at my home. But the biggest benefit is that when I'm at the office, it's a separate place from home, so I do office things at the office and home things at home. The separate physical places really help my brain to context switch. Plus, trying to do work at home when the kids are also home, before/after school or on school breaks, is very difficult for me.
  - elric 3y ago
    > But the biggest benefit is that when I'm at the office, it's a separate place from home That's my biggest gripe as well. I'm always in work mode while my desk is in sight.
growingkittens 3y ago
How is the seal around the bedroom door? Weatherproofing foam strips might help. For the bottom of the door, there's strips of flexible plastic/rubber/etc usually used on garage doors as a "garage door seal" or "draft stopper". It comes in a roll or a pack of precut strips. I put a strip on both sides of the bottom of the door, flush with the floor.
- pamelafox 3y ago
  I did the weatherstripping on the closet door, but didnt do it on bedroom door yet, good point! I’ll do that soon.
axelthegerman 3y ago
Really appreciate some of the advice for sound proofing as well as mention of air quality... All good points. But it seems that the author's situation is one where an office workspace might be the right choice at least for one of them. There is clearly too much interference with each other and video recording has a very high bar that is not easy to achieve at home - which are built for living not for professional recording. I personally have few meetings and working from home is great. Background noise cancelation is fairly decent these days too and 99% of meetings are internal, so a crying child or a partner who is also in a meeting in the room next door isn't an issue.
datacruncher01 3y ago
The closet idea was a good one but you need intake and exhaust fans to circulate the air for CO2 and good temperature control. Something like the airframe system would work fine.
- brayhite 3y ago
  Define “need”. I feel like I must be missing out on something or be very adaptable relative to the HN crowd. I’ve worked in my cloffice - barely big enough to stand in, ventless, and windowless - for nearly four years now. It’s not my daily workspace, as I occasionally work on the porch, at the dining table, by our bay windows, etc etc. I’d say 60% of working full time at home is spent in the cloffice that, based on these comments, might be depriving my body of oxygen in a harmful way I must not be noticing. Am I oblivious?
mrieck 3y ago
I'm in Chicago - I pay for a personal office at a coworking space ($500 / mon) To justify doing that I live in a dorm-type situation where I have shared bathroom and kitchen and only my large bedroom is private. ($800 / mon) It's in Chinatown and because Chinese people generally keep to themselves, and I work 80 hour weeks (40 dayjob, 40 startup), it works out. When I was paying $1600 for a studio, I'd get annoyed when neighbors were regularly smoking weed. That's not a problem in Chinatown. No one smokes weed. It's probably not for everyone - but doing both my dayjob and business from home wasn't working out. For a lot of people there's a mental switch if you have to travel and go to an office to do work. I'm one of those people. I just get more work done this way.

245 points by pamelafox 3y ago

popupeyecare 3y ago

What about one of those office booths/privacy booths?

pamelafox 3y ago
I even looked into those but I think they start in the thousands, and are targeted at corporations with actual offices.
beAbU 3y ago
Have you spent any significant amount of time in one of them before?

quickthrower2 3y ago

Seems like there are a lot of rooms to try out. I suspect the living room or sun room would offer enough distance so that noise is not a distraction. Use a temporary table if this is not aesthetically pleasing when guests come for example.

pamelafox 3y ago
Fair point! I have a 4 yr old and 1 yr old that sometimes must be home in the living room and sun room (which we use as the stroller room), so I really want to be able to have a door between my office and their areas.

xp84 3y ago

Really enjoyed reading this! It’s very informative reading about the effectiveness of each measure you took. I’ve had a room dedicated as my office since moving into our house, but it’s on the main level of our home which means, ahem, a great deal of child noise. I’ve often wondered if a corner of a bedroom, unused as is the rest of upstairs during the day, wouldn’t offer a far more sound-isolated environment. Probably with solid core doors it would be a much better option. It’s funny how most of us feel like we “need” a dedicated room, but really, a bedroom is in many ways an ideal space to give a second, daytime use to, unless you have a partner at home who takes naps or something. Anyway, for now I bought a WeWork subscription!

JohnFen 3y ago
> It’s funny how most of us feel like we “need” a dedicated room, but really, a bedroom is in many ways an ideal space to give a second, daytime use to From many years of experimentation and experience, I can say with a high degree of confidence that I really do need a dedicated room. It's not an issue of practicality, it's an issue of mindset. I need a room that is used only for working and nothing else, so that when I'm in there, my brain is triggered to be in "work mode". Also, if I'm sharing a workspace with other uses, that means I can't leave things sprawled out in between work sessions. > for now I bought a WeWork subscription! Ahh, this indicates that we have very different needs indeed! Hotdesking/shared workspaces -- WeWork or otherwise -- don't actually work for me at all.
- xp84 3y ago
  First, I completely acknowledge the usefulness of putting yourself in a dedicated space for the task of work, helping you to train your mind to focus on work things at work time, and hopefully only at work time. Don't get me wrong, coworking (without an expensive private office) has major downsides, I would love to not have to set up my workspace and tear it down (complete with portable monitor, and keyboard and mouse), and also to not have to lug all this heavy stuff with me daily, but my move was out of sheer necessity because of how loud and disruptive little kids are in the afternoon. The setup/teardown waste 5 minutes daily, but interruptions wasted hours. What I've learned is just that we've each got to find a way to work within the options available to us. With an infinite budget I'd build a super nice 10x20 office in my backyard, but tbh the proximity to a well-meaning little kid who craves my attention would still limit the effectiveness of that plan.
tetromino_ 3y ago
> a bedroom is in many ways an ideal space to give a second, daytime use to, unless you have a partner at home who takes naps or something Or, as is fairly common among tech workers, your partner's sleep schedule differs from yours (one of you needs to work late nights or early mornings due cross-timezone meetings, on-calls, deadlines, performing childcare during part of normal business hours, etc.) Or, as is fairly common among parents with young children, the bedroom routinely sleeps 3+ people.

thsksbd 3y ago

The acoustic was a waste of money. Noise cancelling headsets with a boom microphone would outperform all of those. The real problem (aside from the space) is the air quality. There's just no going around needing to put a duct/return to the room.

pamelafox 3y ago
It felt like the foam did improve audio quality but I think the only thing that measurably reduced noise from outside was solid core door. Pricey though! Agreed that a good microphone is a huge help. I currently use Elgato Wave:3 which is not as fancy as one can go.
- gunnarmorling 3y ago
  Thanks for that post, quite the journey! If you're looking for a new mic, I can recommend the Rode Procaster, it's a a dynamic mic which hardly does pick up any ambient noise whatsoever. I am very happy with it, it should be quite close to your mouth though (not everyone likes that), and I had to get a pre-amplifier (CloudLifter) for some extra gain. Without it, volume was a bit low. Here's a write-up of my set-up touching on the mic and some other stuff: https://www.morling.dev/blog/whats-on-my-desk/ https://www.morling.dev/blog/whats-on-my-desk/.
  - pamelafox 3y ago
    Thanks for the recs! It's so hard to decide when/whether to upgrade my mic. Would Rode Procaster be better than the Elgato Wave:3 (what I have now)? They seem to cost similarly.
    - gunnarmorling 3y ago
      I have never used the Elgato, so I can't speak to its qualities. When I was on the market for a mic though, I've found the Procaster to be on a completely different level than any USB mic I had tried (the Procaster connects via XLR, i.e. an audio interface is needed). It just gives you this nice soothing "professional audio" sound. No affiliations with the vendor btw, just really happy with the mic :)

margalabargala 3y ago

This seems like a case of lots of small incremental changes being slower, more expensive, and ultimately worse than one big change that addresses the problem. The office shown is extremely large and already big enough for two people, as was initially tried. The only real problem is the noise. Instead of having a bunch of work done trying to change the nature of the closet, it seems like the best solution would be to have the contractor construct an entirely new wall dividing the office room in two. Rather than being in a small closet, they now have a large room, with a big window and door, etc. A real wall blocks the noise they're concerned about.

pamelafox 3y ago
I suggested that to my partner! He was not a fan of having a whole wall installed, sadly. It also would have been a bit difficult as that office space had a high ceiling, skylight, and basement entrance exactly where walk would go. I still fantasize about it though.
- hedgehog 3y ago
  Looking at the floor plan I'm curious if some of the storage area is up for grabs. If it's currently unfinished space then it's an opportunity to build in a lot of noise isolation (separated inner wall and a lot of insulation) with shelves on the outside to maximize the remaining storage area.
  - pamelafox 3y ago
    Yep, I suggested that as well, but I assume it'd be at least 10K, since the "storage room" still has its garage door from when it used to be part of the garage. So that whole wall would need to be re-built, and the room would need to get ducting, vents. Extra 5 or 10K for that conditioning? Soo, it might happen one day, but I'm not ready to go all in on that yet.
    - hedgehog 3y ago
      Ah, yes I would imagine cost to do the work in the Bay area would be pretty significant unless you can do much of it yourself. Being nonstructural it's not high risk to DIY but with small kids around that's a big project.

bombcar 3y ago

I've been pleasantly surprised by the improved noise cancelling on tools like Zoom and even Teams, a dog can explode nearby or a child start bawling and nobody can hear it.

teddyh 3y ago
> a dog can explode nearby Does that happen often where you are?
- bombcar 3y ago
  It’s relatively common, and the smaller the dog the louder the explosion apparently. I have a theory based on inverse volume and volume combined with relative importance of the call I’m on. If I’m muted on a boring call it seems to defuse all known dogs.
  - actionablefiber 3y ago
    For the sake of your local dogs I wish you many more boring calls where you have nothing to contribute.
  - glitchc 3y ago
    Hmph, silly anime dogs!

hnlmorg 3y ago

I’m not going to criticise the authors choices because each situation is unique. But if you’re both working from home then I do wonder if your money is better spent moving out of the Bay Area and thus somewhere you can have a 3 or 4 bedroom house. Rather than trying to suffer through an ineffective home office. This is what I did. I had two young children (still young but not as young as when this anecdote happened) and we ended up moving to accommodate for working from home. Before we moved I was finding my home office space (a literal garage) was freezing during the winter and boiling during the summer. And like the author, it was affecting my ability to work. So my options were go back to the office, or buy something more suitable for working from home. It also came with the bonus of a bigger garden for our kids to play in.

mindyopeas 3y ago
[flagged]
- hnlmorg 3y ago
  > The passive aggressive irony in this crazy. I’m not being passive aggressive in the slightest. If anything, I have an appreciation for how hard their situation is because I’ve been there myself. Let me rephrase my original point: I was in a similar situation and realised that hacking my house wasn’t going to cut it. But I also understand that my personal circumstances might have been different from the authors in ways that aren’t publicised. What is disappointing is that you felt you needed to create a burner account to post your criticism.
  - mindyopeas 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - hnlmorg 3y ago
      I was in the same situation as the author and the purpose of my comment was to share my experiences. It’s hard working and raising kids. So I fully appreciate their position. And that’s the last I’m going to say on the topic.

vasco 3y ago

I worked with a guy that made it work for 2 years. Small closet as well. We dearly called it his cloffice!

shipscode 3y ago

My experience was that small spaces drive you crazy and make you do stuff like this. Thanks for reminding me why I can no longer live in urban areas.

rconti 3y ago
Only tangentially related to your comment, but I've always found that people who live in dense environments complain about their neighbors less than those who have more space. People who have an acre or five of land see to ALWAYS be annoyed at whatever their neighbors are doing! Maybe it's selection bias.
- dgfitz 3y ago
  I couldn’t disagree more. I’d be interested in any sort of evidence, or something, to expand on your claim. I have lived in various areas that fit that description my entire life, never experienced annoyed neighbors or heard 3rd party complaints, etc.

ryandrake 3y ago

When I made the decision to go fully remote, the first obvious step was to move out of the Bay Area. One of my hard requirements was property with a separate physical building for a home office. This requirement vastly reduced the set of viable homes to choose from, vastly constrained the neighborhood choice to more rural areas, and somewhat increased the cost. But after more than a year of working this way, I have to say it was well worth it. I wouldn't want to go back to work-from-spare-bedroom or work-from-closet. If you can manage it financially and you can culturally manage to live in a more rural area, you'll won't want to go back, either. First, and obviously, it's quiet. No more kids playing in the house chaos. It's private, and can be locked separately, so I can work on my company's confidential stuff. Economical to heat and cool, since it is a very small space. You also get that intangible "separation" of your work life from your home life that your commute used to give you--hard to explain. A brief walk outside to and from the office allows me to reset into work-mode or home-mode. Highly recommended if you can swing it!

vondur 3y ago
Luckily, I convinced my wife to let me purchase her a pre-fabricated building for an office in February of 2020. We already had an existing concrete slab (12" x 12") where I had a 12" x 10" building put in. It took the work crew about 4 hours to build it. Later I had electrical installed and drywall an insulation put in. She really likes the space.
- deleted 3y ago
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- itake 3y ago
  JW, how much was the total cost and where are you located? did you need permitting?
  - vondur 3y ago
    We are located in the SoCal Area. Since the building was under 12 x 12, no permitting was needed. The cost for the building itself was $5000. I had the electrician run power (1 20 Amp circuit) and install some lighting, that was $1600. To have the drywall installed was around $800. I believe we spent less than $100 to paint the interior.

cobertos 3y ago

Ah, I had the same sort of issues with temperature in my office when I moved into my tiny home[0]. Sunlight was a problem too. Much happier in my new office, even though it's shared! Luckily our schedules don't overlap and dual occupancy hasn't been an issue but once. [0]: https://cobertos.com/blog/post/tiny-home-big-door https://cobertos.com/blog/post/tiny-home-big-door . Scroll down to "Lessons Learned"

pamelafox 3y ago
Great writeup! I did recently get honeycomb light filtering blinds for my bedroom office window, as afternoon sun gets way too bright, but thermal curtains make it too dark. So now its: - morning: no curtains - afternoon: honeycomb blinds - night: thermal
- cobertos 3y ago
  Ah, I'm having sun problems in my new office too. I just draped a blanket over the window, but a two tier system like you describe might give me the best of both worlds

aj7 3y ago

I used a walk-in closet for an office. It was great. I had a small glass-topped table in a 6’ x 8’ closet. However there were clothing closet bars on two walls, an extra bureau of draws, and piles of junk, too. Now this was in Florida. Besides paying bills, I had to prepare a large document in support of a $50k damage claim due to a hurricane. My report was so convincing they paid every cent. I therefore have fond memories of that closet office.

jldugger 3y ago

What is going on in this floor plan? A bedroom with no doors and which you must travel through to get from office to kitchen. But also: an office with a closet, and then a bonus "storage" room and actual closed door garage.

Nition 3y ago
It's huge for only having two bedrooms!
analog31 3y ago
My first thought was: Renovated shotgun house. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_house https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_house
pamelafox 3y ago
Lol, good question. The house is from the 1950s and originally had a detached two-door garage, without the office space. Then they turned the two-door garage into the office + storage room (which still has the door opener in it!), and added a single-door garage next to it. I think the obvious thing to do is to replace the new temporary curtain track in my bedroom with an actual wall, so that we can walk to the office without going through bedroom, but we don't need to do that yet. It'd help with sound though, if I keep with my office in the bedroom.
twic 3y ago
I believe the house was built based on an AD&D dungeon map.

dekhn 3y ago

I built a small corner of my garage into a work space. I have a portable AC and space heater for temp control, the walls are lined with soundproof acoustic panels (denser than the foam in this article's pictures). the space is enclosed using some 2x4s and plywood panels (all of which can be broken down quickly and reassembled, there's nothing permanent). I built a sliding barn door. I didn't put a huge amount of effort into the sound isolation, the acoustic panels mainly reduce echos but do nothing for low vibrations (people walking around the house, cars idling outside, airplanes). I have total control over the lighting (I don't want to see any daylight when I'm working). It can get a little stuffy if I don't turn on the AC/fan. Personally I love working in a little space with my back to a wall. Because of the acoustic tile, many people think I'm just in a work office. I find the limited view (basically I'm looking at a monitor with a wall right behind it) keeps me from getting distracted.

digging 3y ago
> (I don't want to see any daylight when I'm working) Interesting! Can you say more? I can't stand being away from large windows during the day.
- dekhn 3y ago
  it's a combination of finding it challenging to look at a screen when it's really bright around (contrast loss) as well as I find the view distracting. I've already had multiple million-dollar views of the Golden Gate Bridge, etc, now I just want to concentrate on my screen.
  - digging 3y ago
    > I've already had multiple million-dollar views Ah. Maybe I should stop looking for life/work advice on HN, lol. (Don't take this as a personal slight at all please.)
immy 3y ago
Concrete floor?

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago

Speaking only for myself, I'm a bit "spectrumish," so I am actually claustrophilic. The closet would probably do fine for me. As it is, I have a 48" standing desk, in the corner of my living room, and that works fine, but I also don't have the same needs as the author. I do occasional Zoom calls, and Bose QC45 headphones, and the Zoom backgrounds, work fine. I do have a portable green screen, that I can set up, if I really need it. I do spend the majority of every day at the desk (I'm at it, right now). I have a cat that doesn't like my desk, so I only occasionally get demands for head-scratching, and he leaves me alone, otherwise. I did try having a separate room for the office, but found I didn't like being separated from the household. My wife is very quiet, and is glad to leave me alone, and pursue her own interests (and I leave her alone).

pamelafox 3y ago
I actually did like the closet in terms of feeling all cozy! But I can't deal with the feeling of overheating. I actually get something like hot flashes these days, so the feeling of heat can be particularly uncomfortable. If it was well conditioned and ventilated, I would have happily stayed. But I'm also okay with my little space in the bedroom now :) Bose headphones are great, one of the best investments I've made, but they don't reduce the noise in recordings, so I had to find other forms of sound reduction.

rdl 3y ago

It seems like work-from-home is going to be more of a thing over the next 30+ years than it was over the past 30 years (leaving the past 3 years as an exception to both). Work from home also seems to often involve multiple people in the same household working independently (both having two adults working at different jobs, as well as kids working on educational stuff). This seems like it should change how houses are designed. A separate "writer's cottage" or "workshop" has a lot of value, but I've always just had N+1 bedrooms even when I lived alone so I could dedicate a bedroom as an office (and in my current place, the biggest bedroom is the office; the small bedroom is my actual bedroom).

hownottowrite 3y ago

My first rented office was a single room that measured less than 50 square feet. I was able to get a desk and a chair in there but that was it. It had one of those old time doors, half frosted glass. I felt like a noir private eye.

wombatpm 3y ago
I hope it had high ceilings and dormer windows over the doorway as well. Used to see a doctor in an old building like that. Found it really cool.
- hownottowrite 3y ago
  This one didn’t but my next office did and it was amazing. It even had metal fire escape that I used all the time.

dfgfek 3y ago

[flagged]

tantalor 3y ago

Heh, never heard it pronounced as "viz code", that's unique. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO9yHm8zKsk&t=23s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO9yHm8zKsk&t=23s

pamelafox 3y ago
Am trying to convince the team that is The One True Way but actually they made me re-dub my last video to say "V S Code". Sooo I might be wrong ;-)

dougmwne 3y ago

This was a hoot to read. Thanks for sharing it and popping into the comments. I was laughing all throughout because you have so much space but are still stuck with a difficult optimization problem. My partner and I are semi-Digital Nomads and over the years of working from “home” I’d guess we created makeshift office space in about 30 different temporary homes. We are usually somewhere between a 1br and a 3 br, so it always takes a ton of creativity to wrangle the desks, chairs, noise isolation and manage to keep out of the way of your living space. We’ve worked in kitchens, bedrooms, living room couches, closets, woodshops, unheated out buildings, cabins, chalets, hotel rooms (with the furniture against the windows during a hurricane), poolside, and basements during heat waves. Probably my favorite was a 14 person camp bunkhouse in a national forest that I had all to myself with a little space heater to get me through the fall chill before hiking over to the main house after work. My biggest trick is to make sure at the end of the workday you can close a door, shut a curtain, or throw a big sheet over the desk so that you have some physical separation between work and home.

wheresmycraisin 3y ago

If you only have one or two zoom calls per day, I suggest doing it in your car. It's likely quieter than anywhere in your house.

WendyTheWillow 3y ago

It's fascinating to me that "work from home" for many really means, "work from anywhere but the same place your coworkers are." Comments about "separate buildings" and "renting office space" kind of underscores the real value wfh provides; less human interaction. The only problem with that is human interaction actually ends up making much work easier, not harder.

lolinder 3y ago
Separate building on the same property is still very much "from home"—you have no commute, can eat lunch with your family, could invite the dog in if you want, can do laundry during breaks, etc. Renting office space less so, but it still provides another key benefit to remote work: you can live anywhere. Office space doesn't have to be in a high rise, it can be unused commercial space in a suburb or even in a small town. If you don't like remote work that's fine, but there's not much point in posting your caricatures of remote work on a thread filled with people who enjoy working remotely.
- WendyTheWillow 3y ago
  It's hardly a caricature, when you realize that by working remotely, you're asking someone else to pay the costs of you not being in the room. Maybe for some it's fine, and that's what your manager can do for you, but if you're WFH and your whole team isn't, the cost is shifted to someone else. But for workplaces that presume WFH is cost-free and all benefits, someone there is suffering on behalf of the people who WFH.
  - lolinder 3y ago
    You talk as though most people who work from home are doing so as an exception to the rule— maybe that's how it is in your organization, but by now most companies have established official policies for WFH. Mine decided to go fully remote, others demanded a returned to the office, and others set up a hybrid system. If your company landed somewhere on that spectrum that you're unhappy with, that sucks, but that suggests it's time to get a new job, not bitterly caricature your co-workers as only wanting to work remotely in order to avoid interacting with you.

mkl 3y ago

Sounds like you need a cancelling microphone. At my university we had to make a lot of videos for distance learning, and after quite a bit of experimenting we used Poly Blackwire 5200 headsets [1]. Not only do these headsets cancel out office noise, they cancel out traffic, planes right overhead, weedeaters right outside, etc. Any noise from more than a few metres away, except for loud sharp cracks (e.g. door slamming), seems to just disappear. [1] https://www.poly.com/us/en/products/headsets/blackwire/blackwire-5200 https://www.poly.com/us/en/products/headsets/blackwire/black...

pamelafox 3y ago
I have fantastic noise cancelling headphones from Bose, but that doesn't reduce the sound for folks listening to my microphone or for recorded audio in my videos. I do also have a pretty decent microphone (Elgato Wave 3) with a pop filter and arm, which definitely helps, but you can still hear my partner in recordings.
- mkl 3y ago
  Cancelling microphone, not cancelling headphones. The mic boom has two microphones, one pointing at your mouth, and one pointing out, and by combining the two external noise can be cancelled.
  - pamelafox 3y ago
    Ahh, sorry, I misread! Thanks for the recs. There have been a few other mic recommendations in the thread, so I'll have to figure out what my next upgrade will be.

perryh2 3y ago

Here's my "guest bathroom desk": https://twitter.com/perryfromsoma/status/1351396588615204872 https://twitter.com/perryfromsoma/status/1351396588615204872

pamelafox 3y ago
Lol, that's amazing. Doesn't the toilet get in the way of your legs though? I found I need enough space under the desk for crossing my legs.

fsckboy 3y ago

Some of my best and most rewarding long term adult friendships have come as the result of working with people in various office configurations. I'm astonished at the strong desire for physical isolation that so many people here are ever on about. But, not my business, you do you. One by one. Alone :) oh, and on top of that, there is a heavy overlap here with people who wish to flee any city, it's an interesting correlation. I love cities, for the daily variety they offer on so many dimensions. But this is not why I'm writing. I just wanted to share a "home office arrangement" that I invented which I like quite a bit. It's probably more for a bachelor situation than couple, depends on your other, and not for the smallest of spaces, but it's a way to make a space like a living room do double duty. I've done it in several houses/apartments I've lived in and I won't go back. The trick is this: if your couch has its back to a wall, move the couch out from the wall, and hide a desk and chair behind it, facing in the same direction as the couch. You can still use your living room as a living room, and if you're pounding a keyboard all day, a living room is a nice place to sit; I don not like staring at walls, I like depth. moderate clutter will remain mostly hidden, and you can also see the TV if you want to watch youtubes while you're on your keyboard.

footy 3y ago
I love cities, never want to move out of my very downtown apartment, and also never want to work in an office again. People (especially city people) who equate a preference for remote work with a "strong desire for physical isolation" must live very different lives than I do. The fact I work remotely means I have more flexibility and social energy at the end of the day to spend socializing with friends or at after-work sports leagues. When my best friend's mom died it let me spend TONS of time at their apartment so they would not be alone. It let me housesit for my partner's mother. Before we moved in together it let me work from their place and see more of them. I can, and often do, have lunch with friends who live nearby. Working remotely and isolation are just not on the same axis for me. It helps that my company has a very strong remote culture, but the job I had during early COVID did not and I still felt quite satisfied when we went remote. 100% agreed on the depth thing though. Nothing worse than staring at a wall while working-I like that from my desk I can see my entire living room, my front door, my bookshelves, etc.

kentonv 3y ago

As a child of two architects, I have to know... How did this house end up designed such that half the house is only accessible from the other half by passing through someone's bedroom?

bonniemuffin 3y ago
It's almost a shotgun house, which is weirdly common in some places despite being THE WORST architectural style for homes. I lived in one once, and having to walk through the bedroom to get from one side to the other is just as bad as it sounds. Bad for couples, even worse for roommates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_house https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_house
pamelafox 3y ago
Lol, see my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38715097 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38715097

vidanay 3y ago

I've often thought about renting a private office "downtown." Think along the lines of Sam Spade or such film noir where there are small private offices along a central hallway (complete with frosted door glass and my name stenciled on the glass. https://twitter.com/NoirAlley/status/836699700266995713 https://twitter.com/NoirAlley/status/836699700266995713

beAbU 3y ago

Is the layout of that house normal? The garage, storage, office and bedroom are all a single "room" with no corridor, leaving you with no way to close of any of these spaces (for privacy) without blocking off other parts of the house to the rest of the occupants?

pamelafox 3y ago
Nope! It's weird. See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38715097 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38715097

stevage 3y ago

I'm surprised to see the desk with her computer and stuff right next to the bed where toddler sleeps. I guess she packs it all away or somehow makes it toddler proof each evening.

pamelafox 3y ago
It is a standing desk, so sometimes I raise it, if the little ones are messing with stuff. They usually have more fun destroying the rest of the house, however. :)

sircastor 3y ago

Last year we had an exchange student and an au pair, both of whom required their own room - so I got moved out of my office and into the space where our washer and dryer were. Aside from getting pretty warm in the summer, it was fine. My work reimbursed me for a nice pair of noise canceling headphones and that was the biggest issue. I have since been relocated back into a bedroom after the student and Au Pair left. In some ways. The only downside really has been that the table next to me stayed in the room and my wife adopted it as her workspace…

softgrow 3y ago

A least one Japanese railway company has set up business https://www.stationwork.jp https://www.stationwork.jp with closets for rent in stations. I've never used one, but perhaps they have the formula for a closet office that might be useful. Looking around the non-closet options they have I'm not sure I like the idea of "workation" at a resort.

ShakataGaNai 3y ago

In regards to the lighting. > "best lighting is actual daylight in front of you ... Replacing the existing office lights with very warm toned lights" So Daylight is good, yes. That's 5500k to 6500k, depending on how you measure it. It's NOT very warm-toned; in fact, it's cool white. The lights linked are 2700k. You can use them, but your camera is just going to try and compensate for the yellow hue. If you're going to buy something specifically for lighting video calls/recording, you should find something daylight with a higher CRI ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-CRI_LED_lighting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-CRI_LED_lighting ). You don't need to go crazy, but the difference between those $1 LED's and the $20 LED's you see at the store, is probably the CRI. If you want GOOD lighting setup, go for 3 or 4 point lighting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_lighting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_lighting -- You don't need a huge number of expensive lights, just lights set off to the side. Personally, I hate ring lights because they are designed for you to put the camera in the middle of them. If you have glasses, all you can see in the camera is the ring reflection. Even if you don't have glasses, you're now staring into the center of a giant blinding light. No thanks.

pamelafox 3y ago
Great tips! In my bedroom office, I have a west-facing window behind my monitor, with thermal curtains for night and honeycomb light filtering blinds for the afternoon when sun is bright. Also an overhead light. I think its pretty good lighting, though daylight is inconsistent as a lighting source, so that makes it hard to stitch together recordings made across a workday and have them look cohesive.
- ShakataGaNai 3y ago
  Yea. To the left of my desk is a southern facing window that in the morning is blindingly bright. It's also subject to fun weather effects like partly cloudy days where the light can vary wildly. If I'm doing something I need to care about, then I just close the shades as much as possible and rely entirely on my lighting setup. It's a little annoying to be blocking out the nice sunny day in favor of artificial lighting...but that's what it takes sometimes. Then on my breaks I just make sure to go outside and enjoy said sun.

epiccoleman 3y ago

I very much feel the pain, my house is too small and we really could use two more bedrooms. Alas, that's not in the cards, so my office is the garage. I installed a mini split and it does a great job keeping it cool in the summer, and an ok job keeping it warm in the winter. It's actually an excellent room for me - I use it as an office, my workout stuff is out there, and I play music out there too. The only disadvantages are the fact that it can't be solely dedicated to work, that I have to dedicate a good amount of the space to bikes, toys, mower, etc, and of course the minor quibble that there's no room for the cars in the garage. (But honestly, when your house is just over 1000sqft, what kind of madman would give up an extra 400 in the garage just for cars?!)

lacrimacida 3y ago

I havent read the source yet just wanted to point out to make sure the closet is well ventilated, get a co2 sensor just to stay safe if using a windowless room is really a must.

m3kw9 3y ago

Is it a round about way to say she’s coming out of the closet?

alexpotato 3y ago

I spent ~2.5 years working out of a smallish walk in closet during and after COVID. It was both kinda quiet as it was on the 2nd floor and the kids played in the basement during lockdown. Part of me misses it as the "snug" feeling helped with focus as there weren't really any visual distractions. I did worry about the CO2 later in the stretch of using the closet and still worry about it now that I'm in a basement office that has no windows (but there is a window in the larger basement). Funny story about working out of a closet: During COVID, I worked at a place that was famously a bit of "meat grinder" with long hours, short tenure etc. I realized about half way through that I was very good at giving at honest sales pitch about the pros and cons of working there to the point that Recruiting would have candidates on the fence talk to me to try to "close" them. I would usually start each call with "Yes, this is my closet" and end with "Now, if you come work with us, you TOO might end up working in a closet". I had a 100% close rate so I guess it wasn't that bad of a joke or I'm a better salesman than I thought.

bombcar 3y ago
Being honest about (at least some) downsides helps incredibly when going for the close.

corytheboyd 3y ago

The year is 2036. With the office gone, your whole identity is only known through your online persona, the effectiveness of which is gauged by your audio and video quality. In the days of yore, a crisp suit and power tie would send a message. Now, it’s your AV. Tacky? Yes, but so was the suit. This summer, Audio Feedback Loop is proud to release “Can You See My Screen”, the thrilling sci-fi event of the year that has critics dropping praise like “we can’t hear you” and “for the love of god, figure out how desktop audio works”.

immy 3y ago

I see your bedroom has hardwood and assume the majority does as well. Has it survived your toddler?

pamelafox 3y ago
Yep, maybe a bit scratched up. Also some black mold from when we first used a floor mattress without a frame under it. Never put mattresses directly on hardwood! Lesson learned.

rcarr 3y ago

Imagine all the time, money and energy we would all collectively save if both home and commerical real estate prices were just reasonably priced.

wuster 3y ago

pro tip: if you're dwelling in apartments and can't spare a bedroom or closet, use a "grow tent" ($150-$250 on Amazon) to isolate your workspace from toddlers and spouses - big enough for standing desks - most noise isolation headphones will clean up your audio for meetings - add whatever solid color backdrop or virtual backgrounds to clean up your video - built-in air circulation to/from windows

jay-barronville 3y ago

I know I’m digressing here, but I’m curious: Are you not concerned with putting the layout and details/photos of the inside of your home on the internet? (Yes, I know there are other ways to retrieve layouts.)

llamaInSouth 3y ago
Why would that concern you? and yes you can get it either way.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
pamelafox 3y ago
I figure that property owners are public record already, and those plans are already on the public real estate website, so I feel I’m not technically revealing more than what can already be discovered. Maybe I’m wrong though!
- jay-barronville 3y ago
  Fair enough. By that logic though, most things the average person considers personal or sensitive can be discovered yet it’s generally considered good practice to not actively expose intimate aspects of our lives to the world. E.g., it’s relatively easy to find most folks’ home addresses yet most folks wouldn’t feel comfortable posting their home address on the internet, and if someone else does it, it’s considered doxxing. Anyway, I was just curious. Thank you for answering.

JohnBooty 3y ago

After three years of working from home, I was going stir-crazy. I was lucky enough to have a decent office... but still, stir-crazy. I set up a second workstation in the living room. This was not super cheap - a "nice" chair/desk/monitor with decent ergonomics with passes partner acceptability testing is going to be tough to do for much less than $1-$2K. Then my wife started working from home. The living room was no longer a viable place to work. So this year I started turning the garage into a third office.... siiigh. Still, if you earn a decent living from working from home, investing a few % of that salary back into your home office setup is generally one of the best investments you can make.

tqi 3y ago

Has anyone had any success using an office-pod[1]? They don't seem cheap, but do seem less expensive than converting an otherwise unfinished space (like a basement or garage). [1] https://www.wayfair.com/commercial-office-furniture/sb0/privacy-booths-c1873196.html https://www.wayfair.com/commercial-office-furniture/sb0/priv...

dustincoates 3y ago
We have them at our office, and they suffer from many of the problems in the blog post. The lighting is atrocious, and they can get stuffy after a while. At least for the small ones, you also have very little room. A point in their favor, though, is that they are very soundproof, at least the ones that we have.
spcebar 3y ago
One of my previous offices had one. It was cool, but very small and uncomfortable. In terms of mobility and spaciousness, it's sort of like working out of a coach airplane seat.

vzaliva 3y ago

Although I have a comfortable home office, I still rent a small office within walking distance. It has a conference room and desks for both myself and my business partner. I've found I'm more focused and productive working from there, as it helps me mentally separate work from my personal life. There's a daily ritual of 'going to work' and then coming home, which allows me to switch modes between 'work' and 'family.' This was especially helpful during the COVID lockdown.

ToJans 3y ago

I used to have a full blown desk, and a library with lots of books behind me, but I replaced all of it with a "temporary" hack: an Ikea closet [1]. I say"temporary" because I haven't changed it since the start. It's also very convenient: when I open up the door, the closet lights automatically turn on, and when I close the whole thing, it's like the office isn't even there... I'm still working on convincing my wife to put a baby grand in the reclaimed space however, which seems to be a bigger task. Ah well, first class world problems I guess... Move along people! [1] https://twitter.com/ToJans/status/1569383616328736770?t=__BEnAmtBrs1fxqkxx7YWw&s=19 https://twitter.com/ToJans/status/1569383616328736770?t=__BE...

jmspring 3y ago

Everyone is different. I've been mostly/fully remote for a couple of decades now. My primary machine is a 14" MBP (sometimes a 16" MBP for clients). I use "multiple desktops" religiously on MacOS. This pattern works for me and I can work from my couch, bed, kitchen table the same way. When traveling, this pattern works as well. Is it optimal? No. I prefer mechanical keyboards and have multiple servers in my house. But a consistent work solution is more important.

lloeki 3y ago

An interesting read. I've been WFH for 5 or so years, I have the uncanny ability to be able to work anywhere, anytime, a sort of mind switch that flicks itself - or doesn't, and then I'm screwed - irrespective of location, and then the surrounding world fades out when I am in my mental space. I never had an issue with my partner or otherwise people being in the same space... until I had a kid. That changed everything, when our child is home I just stopped being able to not pay attention, even when they are in another room, and now I definitely see the - previously moot - benefit I would get from a dedicated room with a door + soundproofing. As for the bedroom solution, that just would not work for me. My bedroom is a sanctuary: work - and any other cause of concern or otherwise stress - needs to stay out of it or my ability to sleep soundly - or at all - suffers greatly. Regarding lighting, I set up the whole house with smart bulbs and set up Adaptive Lighting with Home Assistant, which also helped a lot with sleep issues. To each his own I guess.

sjducb 3y ago

I notice a room labelled storage. Why not use that?

pamelafox 3y ago
That storage room is half of an old 2-door garage. It still has the garage door instead of a wall, floors are concrete, single outlet and light, and has no heating or air conditioning. So it would require similar upgrades but in a much larger space, so fairly costly. Might do it in the future though!

buro9 3y ago

I work in a closet, it's in a London converted Victorian terrace house, a flat. The closet is 1.3m wide, 1.8m long... it is small, but it works. There is background noise, from my partner, and occasionally neighbours and building work in their homes which can be as close as 2-3m from my window, but it works. I attribute this working to several things: 1. buy a great microphone such as a Shure SM7B with a tight polar pattern focused on the person speaking as this will prevent the pickup of virtually all noise outside of that. this mic needs to be an inch or two from your mouth so you need a decent mic arm. any near-field studio monitor speakers are adequate, your mic will _not_ pick up the sound due to the polar pattern. 2. buy decent lighting, there's a lot online but you can default to Elgato Key Lights and these can do daylight temperatures as well as evening / night temperatures. you want two of these positioned around 45-40' angle offset in front of you on either side and just above the camera (you will not be staring into a blinding light), and one to light up the space behind you. alternatively a single key light with an umbrella / dome, and then 2 lights doing the environmental. this is a useful YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpEeYwrkBPU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpEeYwrkBPU 3. if you happen to wear glasses and you have a DSLR as a webcam then consider getting a circular polarizing filter, as then you can remove screen reflections from your glasses trivially. I do not use sound dampening / conditioning in the room, I have some books on a shelf which helps to reduce / prevent echoes, but otherwise I've done nothing despite it being a box closet / room. I do agree 100% with Pamela that air quality is the biggest issue... everything else can be changed easily. Any CO2 meter, i.e. the Aranet 4 or equivalent, will tell you when to open the window a little, if the CO2 level goes above 700 I open the window. The office is tiny, there's a lot of equipment in here... and so I never need to heat this room even when it's below freezing outside. In the Summer I need to aircon it, I use a portable aircon... and despite it being noisy for me, the Shure SM7B is basically miraculous and the sound of the portable aircon is extremely low and all of the noise reduction software works perfectly against it (I use Nvidia Broadcast noise reduction only during the Summer when I run the aircon). Closet offices can work, but the microphone is virtually everything. it looks like Pamela is using the Elgato Wave, it's an OK mic and has a lot of gimmicks... but truly, just changing to a Shure SM7B https://www.shure.com/en-GB/products/microphones/sm7b https://www.shure.com/en-GB/products/microphones/sm7b and combining it with an audio interface like the SSL2 https://solidstatelogic.com/products/ssl2 https://solidstatelogic.com/products/ssl2 with a FetHead on the cable https://www.tritonaudio.com/fethead https://www.tritonaudio.com/fethead would've cured most of the problems. Only the air quality is hard to solve.

hasoleju 3y ago

There were some great ideas in the article that would also improve the working conditions in corporate offices. I especially like the curtain behind the chair in order to make sure that no one crosses the video stream accidentally. This is something that happens a lot in corporate open floor settings. Apart from that monitoring the air quality is also something that usually is not done in the corporate environment.

ThinkBeat 3y ago

If the drawing is to scale, and the office was created in the area called storage it does not look that small to me. I was expecting a walk-in closet. If I spent most of my time streaming and recording, I would not want any sunlight. The sun changes position, there are clouds and rain, all of which create different lighting conditions, and makes it difficult to create a consistent palette of colors. Most noticeable if you are recording (as she does) and you do one session from morning til lunch, one session in the evening and the last session tomorrow morning. The colors would be changing. (As a guy who spent years as a pro photographer these things scare me.) She may use the righlight to overpower the sun that would mostly work but it would look harsh. I think she should look into microphones. I am not sure what she uses, but you can get microphones + limiter/compressor that would make it fairly easy to not pick up stray sounds. (up to a point).

bombcar 3y ago
Even if the mic doesn’t pick it up, you might still be able to, which can be distracting.

dubeye 3y ago

I have a tiny cupboard as an office. It was originally supposed to be temporary but I prefer it to my old big office. It’s very cosy and focus is entirely on the screen. However I’m alone in the house when I work. So I can leave the door open for fresh air and no noise issue. I don’t think OP’s have much to do with the size of the office

bearsnowstorm 3y ago

Not quite the same but when we were rebuilding during COVID we knew we wanted two good WFH spaces but really only had room for one (tiny) office - as our second we built a shelf in our bedroom wardrobe that lifts up to reveal a work surface and a 32" monitor - inspired by this guy's work on ikeahackers: https://ikeahackers.net/2020/10/fold-out-desk-home-office-pax.html https://ikeahackers.net/2020/10/fold-out-desk-home-office-pa... Works really well and given the cost of space for a second desk it was a very cost effective solution - only minimally affects the utility of the wardrobe as a wardrobe. (We didn't build the laptop holder this guy describes, the laptop just gets sat on top of the clothes in the drawer below that shelf with attention to make sure we're not blocking a fan intake. We had a powerpoint and a ethernet port put into the back of the wardrobe but actually we just end up using Wi-Fi mostly.)

pamelafox 3y ago
Nice! I think we’re going to turn the closet office back into a closet, add built in shelves, but make sure one of the shelves is at desk level and that others are removable. That way we still have a backup desk.

elric 3y ago

Possibly unpopular opinion, but I wonder if one day we'll realize that having home offices is less efficient than having actual offices. The same goes for gyms. Sure, it's nice to have an exercise bike and some dumbbells at home, but a real gym is better equipped, easier to maintain (as in: I don't have to maintain it), and gets a lot more use out of it than my home gym ever would. I don't want to work out of a closet. I hate working from my living room. I don't want to move to a bigger abode just so I can WFH more easily. A shitty open plan office is worse than my home office, but I miss having a nice office a short commute away.

cheschire 3y ago
I feel like WeWork was, at its core, a good idea. If there were more small office parks near people’s neighborhoods, where desks could be leased long term for reasonable amounts, “remote” work would be a lot more comfortable than centralized office space. And with all these office building real estate issues, I’m honestly shocked a replacement for WeWork hasn’t successfully made an impact in this space yet.
bradfa 3y ago
It's not that unpopular of an opinion, just maybe it's unpopular within the HN demographic. I work remote. I rent an office about 3 miles from my home. If I continue to work remotely for 10 years, my total cost in rent (which includes heating/cooling/electric/etc) will still be less than my family expected to pay to put an office-sized addition onto our house. My office also has fiber internet now which I cannot get at my home. But the biggest benefit is that when I'm at the office, it's a separate place from home, so I do office things at the office and home things at home. The separate physical places really help my brain to context switch. Plus, trying to do work at home when the kids are also home, before/after school or on school breaks, is very difficult for me.
- elric 3y ago
  > But the biggest benefit is that when I'm at the office, it's a separate place from home That's my biggest gripe as well. I'm always in work mode while my desk is in sight.

growingkittens 3y ago

How is the seal around the bedroom door? Weatherproofing foam strips might help. For the bottom of the door, there's strips of flexible plastic/rubber/etc usually used on garage doors as a "garage door seal" or "draft stopper". It comes in a roll or a pack of precut strips. I put a strip on both sides of the bottom of the door, flush with the floor.

pamelafox 3y ago
I did the weatherstripping on the closet door, but didnt do it on bedroom door yet, good point! I’ll do that soon.

axelthegerman 3y ago

Really appreciate some of the advice for sound proofing as well as mention of air quality... All good points. But it seems that the author's situation is one where an office workspace might be the right choice at least for one of them. There is clearly too much interference with each other and video recording has a very high bar that is not easy to achieve at home - which are built for living not for professional recording. I personally have few meetings and working from home is great. Background noise cancelation is fairly decent these days too and 99% of meetings are internal, so a crying child or a partner who is also in a meeting in the room next door isn't an issue.

datacruncher01 3y ago

The closet idea was a good one but you need intake and exhaust fans to circulate the air for CO2 and good temperature control. Something like the airframe system would work fine.

brayhite 3y ago
Define “need”. I feel like I must be missing out on something or be very adaptable relative to the HN crowd. I’ve worked in my cloffice - barely big enough to stand in, ventless, and windowless - for nearly four years now. It’s not my daily workspace, as I occasionally work on the porch, at the dining table, by our bay windows, etc etc. I’d say 60% of working full time at home is spent in the cloffice that, based on these comments, might be depriving my body of oxygen in a harmful way I must not be noticing. Am I oblivious?

mrieck 3y ago

I'm in Chicago - I pay for a personal office at a coworking space ($500 / mon) To justify doing that I live in a dorm-type situation where I have shared bathroom and kitchen and only my large bedroom is private. ($800 / mon) It's in Chinatown and because Chinese people generally keep to themselves, and I work 80 hour weeks (40 dayjob, 40 startup), it works out. When I was paying $1600 for a studio, I'd get annoyed when neighbors were regularly smoking weed. That's not a problem in Chinatown. No one smokes weed. It's probably not for everyone - but doing both my dayjob and business from home wasn't working out. For a lot of people there's a mental switch if you have to travel and go to an office to do work. I'm one of those people. I just get more work done this way.