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Whenever I have an issue with a product that support can't/won't resolve I go to one of those sites where you can buy contact info and purchase the CEO's email

Whenever I have an issue with a product that support can't/won't resolve I go to one of those sites where you can buy contact info and purchase the CEO's email addresses and phone numbers then go at them. I just had to do it for the recent Google class action payout (got me my check overnighted). I did it with Cash App though and it backfired ("Your account has been terminated for contacting employees outside of the support system") Now, how much is Sundar Pichai's cellphone number going to cost me? I just want to get into my Google account that I have the username, password and recovery email for, but not the old phone number.

arcastroe 3y ago
If you're willing to share, I'd love to hear the Cash App story. Seems like a slap in the face for them to terminate your account for trying to resolve an issue with their service.
- qingcharles 3y ago
  In very quick summary: I bought a product online using my Cash App debit card. Turns out with more research company was a total scam. After 6 weeks of not shipping anything I asked for refund. They shipped "something" to me, but FedEx failed to deliver the box (said I was out but never even came down my street) and the package was returned to the sender. Sender closed their corporation and opened under another name and continued scam. I asked Cash App to do a chargeback. They told me their system doesn't allow chargebacks where the goods were "delivered." I told them they were never delivered. They argued that they were delivered back to the sender, therefore they were "delivered." I got all their execs cellphones and started politely calling them. One escalated it to their "Executive Support" who gave me the same answer, then my account was terminated. They did issue me a refund as part of the termination, but I can no longer use Cash App which is very frustrating for someone at the bottom of the food chain like me who interacts regularly with people who only use Cash App as their banking. In the interest of resolving your dispute, we are providing, as a one-time courtesy, a reimbursement of $93.75 for your transaction with Wibargin, LLC. Additionally, we are electing to terminate your Cash App account (as allowed in our Terms of Service, section XIII.8). As a result of the termination of your Cash App account, you will no longer be able to use Cash App and its services going forward. You will be able to access your account in order to cash out your remaining funds, however all other features, including the Cash Card, will be permanently disabled.
  - intunderflow 3y ago
    I hope the absolute contempt CashApp seem to treat their users with backfires on them in the future when they inevitably see actual competition. Terminating a users account while simultaneously admitting fault by providing reimbursement just screams to me that the leadership team are completely out of touch and don't want to hear a thing from their own customers.
    - s3p 3y ago
      Venmo did this to me in 2019 :) They thought I was under 18, so they asked for my drivers license. I sent a picture and they responded with: "Thank you for sending us your ID." "Your account has been permanently deactivated and we regret to inform you that we can no longer offer you the Venmo service." Absolutely mind boggling.
      - fullspectrumdev 3y ago
        PayPal recently did this to a friend - asked them to verify their account, then terminated it.
        zarzavat 3y ago
        Maybe asking for the ID is a ruse. They already intended to close the account, they just want your ID so you can’t open another one.
        qingcharles 3y ago
        I never thought about this before. Instagram asked for this and the literal second I hit upload on my photo it said I was permanently banned with no appeal possible. This is a good scam.
        hmottestad 3y ago
        Probably want to make sure you can't sign up for it at a later time.
Scoundreller 3y ago
Another option is contacting shareholder relations. Helps if you're a stockholder, but you don't have to be (you can decide on the ethics of going through non-standard methods when standard methods don't work). Those inboxes are usually monitored by competent people and they'll at least forward your email to the right people so they can close out the case that gets created on every email on their side. Patio11 goes into this here: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2017/09/09/identity-theft-credit-reports/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2017/09/09/identity-theft-credit-r... in the section: "Where exactly should I address letters?". Also goes into contacting their legal department. If you can't find an address, can always send a letter to headquarters "ATTN LEGAL DEPARTMENT", those get opened by expensive people. I've emailed shareholder relations for a company I owned, a smaller company, like $2b, about some question I had about one of their annual reports. Didn't get a response after a followup. Sold half my stock because of their non-response and was very happy I did (unsure if my question was a sensitive topic for them, but c'mon, at least give me a fuck off reply)
- qingcharles 3y ago
  Thank you. I was thinking of following up with Cash App's legal dept just to see if they have anyone worth a crap working there who might see sense and reverse the decision.
- trinsic2 3y ago
  Thanks for the info. I accidentally downvoted you while copying the text, sorry about that.
throwup238 3y ago
> I did it with Cash App though and it backfired ("Your account has been terminated for contacting employees outside of the support system") Write the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. They'll get you sorted right quick.
- qingcharles 3y ago
  First thing I did. Didn't help at all :(
  - throwup238 3y ago
    That sucks. Are they not under the CFPB's jurisdiction? What about your Congresscritter? I usually CC them on any complaints and they pick it up if there's a problem.
    - qingcharles 3y ago
      OK, I just looked up the CFPB's response. They just acted as middle-man. The response from Cash App was that I should file a chargeback with FedEx and claim that the package was never received (literally lie to FedEx even though their own system shows the package was returned). After that response I was allowed to respond and the CFPB then closed the complaint. Here's my final response: https://imgur.com/a/xS7k84X https://imgur.com/a/xS7k84X
- lolinder 3y ago
  Is this illegal somehow? I totally understand why a company would take a hard stance against customers contacting employees through weird side channels, and I have a hard time imagining what law they would be violating by enforcing that rule.
  - throwup238 3y ago
    I am not a lawyer and I have no idea. That’s why when I’ve been wronged by an institution with dozens of lawyers, I contact the CFPB. That’s what consumer protection is supposed to be. Unfortunately based on the OP’s experience it looks like the CFPB had been severely handicapped since the last time I had to complain to them. Now they only have authority over banks with more than $10 billion in assets.
thejosh 3y ago
Here in Australia we have the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) which is designed to help consumers, we also have pretty good consumer laws - this has stopped various companies from expanding here due to not wanting to deal with our Government, however given Australians spend $$, they need to dance to their tune.
- nuker 3y ago
  In my case (below) ACCC said they dont engage for individuals, its an industry level org. Quote: "The ACCC is not a complaints handling body, so we are unable to help you resolve your dispute" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38691458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38691458
  - suprjami 3y ago
    I always thought Fair Trading was the version for individuals
aardvarkr 3y ago
Where in the world can you buy information like that? Seems incredible that something like that exists
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- qingcharles 3y ago
  SignalHire was the one I used recently, and Jigsaw was the one before. Basically whenever a friend of yours installs some shitty free app on their phone and it demands to exfiltrate all their contacts your email address and phone numbers get scooped up and sold to the highest bidder. You can guarantee Tim Cook has a bunch of friends, grandmas, etc that have no idea how to use their phones and have 400 apps installed all syphoning off Tim's contact details.
  - qup 3y ago
    This comment caused me to run a thought experiment about how many grandmas a person can have. I decided the answer is exactly as you described: a bunch.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    > You can guarantee Tim Cook has a bunch of friends, grandmas, etc that have no idea how to use their phones and have 400 apps installed all syphoning off Tim's contact details But how do those apps know it's THE Tim Cook and not one of dozens of other guys named Tim Cook? Also, what if, and this is usually the case, most people don't have you as "Tim Cook" in their phonebooks, but as "Big Baws", "Honey Bunny" or "Timmeh 12 inches uncut"?
    - joshmanders 3y ago
      > But how do those apps know it's THE Tim Cook and not one of dozens of other guys named Tim Cook? Also, what if, and this is usually the case, most people don't have you as "Tim Cook" in their phonebooks, but as "Big Baws", "Honey Bunny" or "Timmeh 12 inches uncut"? If a lot of people have that same phone number in their contacts but only a handful have it as "Big Baws", "Honey Bunny" or "Timmeh 12 inches uncut" but do have as Tim Cook, or even have his job description, email address and other stuff attached to it too, it's safe to say it's a dead ringer to be Tim Cook, CEO of Apple, Inc.
mathrawka 3y ago
Curious to which Google class action payout you are talking about. I'm still waiting for the check from https://googleplaydevelopersettlement.com/ https://googleplaydevelopersettlement.com/, was it this one?
sureglymop 3y ago
We just had a thing like this in my company. A customer asked a technical question to our assistant who forwarded the question to the dev team. Within an hour (before she could reply) they wrote an angry email to the CEO "exposing" her and overall acting petty. The CEO then forwarded that email to her supervisor who then just forwarded it to her again. It was quite unpleasant for every party involved. It's just a hit and miss and if one does this, it definitely shouldn't be an petty/angry rant.
- toyg 3y ago
  So your dev team humiliated a random female employee for trying to provide good customer support...? Sounds like a fun place to work for. /s
  - t0mas88 3y ago
    Or "they" refers to the customer?
  - lolinder 3y ago
    The pronouns are super confusing in that comment, but I'm pretty sure that "they" is the customer and "she" is the assistant. The "before she could reply" implies that whoever wrote the angry email was being impatient and didn't wait for a reply to an email that they had sent. The only replies being awaited are devs->assistant or assistant->customer, and since the devs were only identified as a group it makes more sense to interpret the assistant as the (singular female) victim of the impatience and the customer as the one who got impatient waiting for a reply.
soundarana 3y ago
Buying a private phone number and contacting it for support could be considered harassment.
- verisimi 3y ago
  What about when your device is bricked, and you can't use it any more and the company does not engage with you? What the legal system says, the words they use, are not that interesting...
  - lolinder 3y ago
    Yes, it's still harassment. You have other means of expressing your frustration at the company, but contacting individuals directly (who may or may not even be in charge of that aspect of the company!) is not a valid way of doing so.
    - euroderf 3y ago
      ... unless it is the only way. Work with dogs, wake up with fleas.
    - verisimi 3y ago
      That person is responsible. They make, or oversee, the decision to brick phones for probably thousands of people. Probably this makes even more money for them, as the greater percentage will buy a new phone, rather than reach some sort of resolution. There is no legal comeback for this immoral executive decision. In fact, the legal system will find in favour of the CEO. Their contacts will allow it, and if not, they will lobby for laws to be put in place to allow it in future. What of any of all that is "right"? It's simple force; right is might. Do you know what "right" is? Do you think what is legal, is also right?

arcastroe 3y ago

If you're willing to share, I'd love to hear the Cash App story. Seems like a slap in the face for them to terminate your account for trying to resolve an issue with their service.

qingcharles 3y ago
In very quick summary: I bought a product online using my Cash App debit card. Turns out with more research company was a total scam. After 6 weeks of not shipping anything I asked for refund. They shipped "something" to me, but FedEx failed to deliver the box (said I was out but never even came down my street) and the package was returned to the sender. Sender closed their corporation and opened under another name and continued scam. I asked Cash App to do a chargeback. They told me their system doesn't allow chargebacks where the goods were "delivered." I told them they were never delivered. They argued that they were delivered back to the sender, therefore they were "delivered." I got all their execs cellphones and started politely calling them. One escalated it to their "Executive Support" who gave me the same answer, then my account was terminated. They did issue me a refund as part of the termination, but I can no longer use Cash App which is very frustrating for someone at the bottom of the food chain like me who interacts regularly with people who only use Cash App as their banking. In the interest of resolving your dispute, we are providing, as a one-time courtesy, a reimbursement of $93.75 for your transaction with Wibargin, LLC. Additionally, we are electing to terminate your Cash App account (as allowed in our Terms of Service, section XIII.8). As a result of the termination of your Cash App account, you will no longer be able to use Cash App and its services going forward. You will be able to access your account in order to cash out your remaining funds, however all other features, including the Cash Card, will be permanently disabled.
- intunderflow 3y ago
  I hope the absolute contempt CashApp seem to treat their users with backfires on them in the future when they inevitably see actual competition. Terminating a users account while simultaneously admitting fault by providing reimbursement just screams to me that the leadership team are completely out of touch and don't want to hear a thing from their own customers.
  - s3p 3y ago
    Venmo did this to me in 2019 :) They thought I was under 18, so they asked for my drivers license. I sent a picture and they responded with: "Thank you for sending us your ID." "Your account has been permanently deactivated and we regret to inform you that we can no longer offer you the Venmo service." Absolutely mind boggling.
    - fullspectrumdev 3y ago
      PayPal recently did this to a friend - asked them to verify their account, then terminated it.
      - zarzavat 3y ago
        Maybe asking for the ID is a ruse. They already intended to close the account, they just want your ID so you can’t open another one.
        qingcharles 3y ago
        I never thought about this before. Instagram asked for this and the literal second I hit upload on my photo it said I was permanently banned with no appeal possible. This is a good scam.
      - hmottestad 3y ago
        Probably want to make sure you can't sign up for it at a later time.

Scoundreller 3y ago

Another option is contacting shareholder relations. Helps if you're a stockholder, but you don't have to be (you can decide on the ethics of going through non-standard methods when standard methods don't work). Those inboxes are usually monitored by competent people and they'll at least forward your email to the right people so they can close out the case that gets created on every email on their side. Patio11 goes into this here: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2017/09/09/identity-theft-credit-reports/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2017/09/09/identity-theft-credit-r... in the section: "Where exactly should I address letters?". Also goes into contacting their legal department. If you can't find an address, can always send a letter to headquarters "ATTN LEGAL DEPARTMENT", those get opened by expensive people. I've emailed shareholder relations for a company I owned, a smaller company, like $2b, about some question I had about one of their annual reports. Didn't get a response after a followup. Sold half my stock because of their non-response and was very happy I did (unsure if my question was a sensitive topic for them, but c'mon, at least give me a fuck off reply)

qingcharles 3y ago
Thank you. I was thinking of following up with Cash App's legal dept just to see if they have anyone worth a crap working there who might see sense and reverse the decision.
trinsic2 3y ago
Thanks for the info. I accidentally downvoted you while copying the text, sorry about that.

throwup238 3y ago

> I did it with Cash App though and it backfired ("Your account has been terminated for contacting employees outside of the support system") Write the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. They'll get you sorted right quick.

qingcharles 3y ago
First thing I did. Didn't help at all :(
- throwup238 3y ago
  That sucks. Are they not under the CFPB's jurisdiction? What about your Congresscritter? I usually CC them on any complaints and they pick it up if there's a problem.
  - qingcharles 3y ago
    OK, I just looked up the CFPB's response. They just acted as middle-man. The response from Cash App was that I should file a chargeback with FedEx and claim that the package was never received (literally lie to FedEx even though their own system shows the package was returned). After that response I was allowed to respond and the CFPB then closed the complaint. Here's my final response: https://imgur.com/a/xS7k84X https://imgur.com/a/xS7k84X
lolinder 3y ago
Is this illegal somehow? I totally understand why a company would take a hard stance against customers contacting employees through weird side channels, and I have a hard time imagining what law they would be violating by enforcing that rule.
- throwup238 3y ago
  I am not a lawyer and I have no idea. That’s why when I’ve been wronged by an institution with dozens of lawyers, I contact the CFPB. That’s what consumer protection is supposed to be. Unfortunately based on the OP’s experience it looks like the CFPB had been severely handicapped since the last time I had to complain to them. Now they only have authority over banks with more than $10 billion in assets.

thejosh 3y ago

Here in Australia we have the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) which is designed to help consumers, we also have pretty good consumer laws - this has stopped various companies from expanding here due to not wanting to deal with our Government, however given Australians spend $$, they need to dance to their tune.

nuker 3y ago
In my case (below) ACCC said they dont engage for individuals, its an industry level org. Quote: "The ACCC is not a complaints handling body, so we are unable to help you resolve your dispute" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38691458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38691458
- suprjami 3y ago
  I always thought Fair Trading was the version for individuals

aardvarkr 3y ago

Where in the world can you buy information like that? Seems incredible that something like that exists

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
qingcharles 3y ago
SignalHire was the one I used recently, and Jigsaw was the one before. Basically whenever a friend of yours installs some shitty free app on their phone and it demands to exfiltrate all their contacts your email address and phone numbers get scooped up and sold to the highest bidder. You can guarantee Tim Cook has a bunch of friends, grandmas, etc that have no idea how to use their phones and have 400 apps installed all syphoning off Tim's contact details.
- qup 3y ago
  This comment caused me to run a thought experiment about how many grandmas a person can have. I decided the answer is exactly as you described: a bunch.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  > You can guarantee Tim Cook has a bunch of friends, grandmas, etc that have no idea how to use their phones and have 400 apps installed all syphoning off Tim's contact details But how do those apps know it's THE Tim Cook and not one of dozens of other guys named Tim Cook? Also, what if, and this is usually the case, most people don't have you as "Tim Cook" in their phonebooks, but as "Big Baws", "Honey Bunny" or "Timmeh 12 inches uncut"?
  - joshmanders 3y ago
    > But how do those apps know it's THE Tim Cook and not one of dozens of other guys named Tim Cook? Also, what if, and this is usually the case, most people don't have you as "Tim Cook" in their phonebooks, but as "Big Baws", "Honey Bunny" or "Timmeh 12 inches uncut"? If a lot of people have that same phone number in their contacts but only a handful have it as "Big Baws", "Honey Bunny" or "Timmeh 12 inches uncut" but do have as Tim Cook, or even have his job description, email address and other stuff attached to it too, it's safe to say it's a dead ringer to be Tim Cook, CEO of Apple, Inc.

mathrawka 3y ago

Curious to which Google class action payout you are talking about. I'm still waiting for the check from https://googleplaydevelopersettlement.com/ https://googleplaydevelopersettlement.com/, was it this one?

sureglymop 3y ago

We just had a thing like this in my company. A customer asked a technical question to our assistant who forwarded the question to the dev team. Within an hour (before she could reply) they wrote an angry email to the CEO "exposing" her and overall acting petty. The CEO then forwarded that email to her supervisor who then just forwarded it to her again. It was quite unpleasant for every party involved. It's just a hit and miss and if one does this, it definitely shouldn't be an petty/angry rant.

toyg 3y ago
So your dev team humiliated a random female employee for trying to provide good customer support...? Sounds like a fun place to work for. /s
- t0mas88 3y ago
  Or "they" refers to the customer?
- lolinder 3y ago
  The pronouns are super confusing in that comment, but I'm pretty sure that "they" is the customer and "she" is the assistant. The "before she could reply" implies that whoever wrote the angry email was being impatient and didn't wait for a reply to an email that they had sent. The only replies being awaited are devs->assistant or assistant->customer, and since the devs were only identified as a group it makes more sense to interpret the assistant as the (singular female) victim of the impatience and the customer as the one who got impatient waiting for a reply.

soundarana 3y ago

Buying a private phone number and contacting it for support could be considered harassment.

verisimi 3y ago
What about when your device is bricked, and you can't use it any more and the company does not engage with you? What the legal system says, the words they use, are not that interesting...
- lolinder 3y ago
  Yes, it's still harassment. You have other means of expressing your frustration at the company, but contacting individuals directly (who may or may not even be in charge of that aspect of the company!) is not a valid way of doing so.
  - euroderf 3y ago
    ... unless it is the only way. Work with dogs, wake up with fleas.
  - verisimi 3y ago
    That person is responsible. They make, or oversee, the decision to brick phones for probably thousands of people. Probably this makes even more money for them, as the greater percentage will buy a new phone, rather than reach some sort of resolution. There is no legal comeback for this immoral executive decision. In fact, the legal system will find in favour of the CEO. Their contacts will allow it, and if not, they will lobby for laws to be put in place to allow it in future. What of any of all that is "right"? It's simple force; right is might. Do you know what "right" is? Do you think what is legal, is also right?