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Easily. Pulling up the ladder behind you is classic self-interested, antisocial behavior. It doesn't have to be internally consistent, it just has to make them

Easily. Pulling up the ladder behind you is classic self-interested, antisocial behavior. It doesn't have to be internally consistent, it just has to make them money.

falcor84 3y ago
Indeed. Setting up "Barriers to entry" is one of the fundamental things taught on an MBA.
jomohke 3y ago
To be fair, this isn't a ladder OpenAI used themselves, right? (The seemingly-extreme shortcut of training from an external LLM model) Their ladder (using public data, and hiring humans to classify to taste) is still available I believe.
- matwood 3y ago
  > Their ladder (using public data, and hiring humans to classify) is still available I believe. Not really. Once chatGPT came out, many sites changed their terms and/or significantly increased their API access costs to prevent/limit/make cost prohibitive future scraping.
  - jomohke 3y ago
    Good point. Though that affects OpenAI too for new data. I had assumed most of their web content was from Common Crawl, and the older pre-ChatGPT Common Crawl datasets used would still be available. But it looks like Twitter, for one, was not in Common Crawl.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    > Once chatGPT came out, many sites changed their terms Which is not openAI “pulling up the ladder behind them”
    - lelanthran 3y ago
      No, it is them spoiling the pitch. There is literally no way for them to avoid looking like assholes once they take enact barriers that they themselves did not have to overcome.
      - richardw 3y ago
        It’s not like OpenAI trained their model using someone else’s and now won’t allow it done to them. This seems more like saying “get your own content and do the work like everyone else”.
        withinboredom 3y ago
        Except they made it nearly impossible to do so.
- moogly 3y ago
  > using public data As far as we know.
nonethewiser 3y ago
> Pulling up the ladder behind you is classic self-interested, antisocial behavior. Not the case. That would be the case if OpenAI prevented them from using the same resources, which ChatGPT is not.
- k__ 3y ago
  Fair. To keep that analogy going, they essentially used the ladder so hard, it broke.
- latexr 3y ago
  > if OpenAI prevented them from using the same resources, which ChatGPT is not. It kind of is. Just think of how many services changed their data sharing policies and closed APIs due to ChatGPT training (Twitter, Stack Overflow, Reddit). Maybe the analogy is that instead of pulling the ladder, they set fire to it so it’s burning and making it harder for others to climb. Even if they didn’t set it alight on purpose, I don’t imagine they’re losing sleep over it.
tinus_hn 3y ago
Does Bytedance allow OpenAI to train ChatGPT using TikTok?

Easily. Pulling up the ladder behind you is classic self-interested, antisocial behavior. It doesn't have to be internally consistent, it just has to make them money.

falcor84 3y ago

Indeed. Setting up "Barriers to entry" is one of the fundamental things taught on an MBA.

jomohke 3y ago

To be fair, this isn't a ladder OpenAI used themselves, right? (The seemingly-extreme shortcut of training from an external LLM model) Their ladder (using public data, and hiring humans to classify to taste) is still available I believe.

matwood 3y ago
> Their ladder (using public data, and hiring humans to classify) is still available I believe. Not really. Once chatGPT came out, many sites changed their terms and/or significantly increased their API access costs to prevent/limit/make cost prohibitive future scraping.
- jomohke 3y ago
  Good point. Though that affects OpenAI too for new data. I had assumed most of their web content was from Common Crawl, and the older pre-ChatGPT Common Crawl datasets used would still be available. But it looks like Twitter, for one, was not in Common Crawl.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  > Once chatGPT came out, many sites changed their terms Which is not openAI “pulling up the ladder behind them”
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    No, it is them spoiling the pitch. There is literally no way for them to avoid looking like assholes once they take enact barriers that they themselves did not have to overcome.
    - richardw 3y ago
      It’s not like OpenAI trained their model using someone else’s and now won’t allow it done to them. This seems more like saying “get your own content and do the work like everyone else”.
      - withinboredom 3y ago
        Except they made it nearly impossible to do so.
moogly 3y ago
> using public data As far as we know.

nonethewiser 3y ago

> Pulling up the ladder behind you is classic self-interested, antisocial behavior. Not the case. That would be the case if OpenAI prevented them from using the same resources, which ChatGPT is not.

k__ 3y ago
Fair. To keep that analogy going, they essentially used the ladder so hard, it broke.
latexr 3y ago
> if OpenAI prevented them from using the same resources, which ChatGPT is not. It kind of is. Just think of how many services changed their data sharing policies and closed APIs due to ChatGPT training (Twitter, Stack Overflow, Reddit). Maybe the analogy is that instead of pulling the ladder, they set fire to it so it’s burning and making it harder for others to climb. Even if they didn’t set it alight on purpose, I don’t imagine they’re losing sleep over it.

tinus_hn 3y ago

Does Bytedance allow OpenAI to train ChatGPT using TikTok?