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TV Detector Vans
- mortallywounded 3y agoI can only imagine the faux ignorance when a TV inspector knocks on your door and asks if your TV is running. "Huh, TV? I don't have a TV..."
- sn00tz00t 3y ago[flagged]
- cf1241290841 3y agoWouldnt call it faux ignorance, the section of society without one is likely quite large. It was before youtube and co took off and the number of viewers very likely went down afterwards.
- scrollaway 3y agoI moved to the UK circa 2009 when I just turned 18. I was raised on the internet and broke enough not to own a TV. Got harassed by so, so many TV tax envelopes and visits over the next couple years, they were just SO convinced I was lying to them because of course some 18-something year old kid would have a TV, how could he not? Left a pretty bad taste in my mouth.
- semanticist 3y agoI informed the TVLA that my mum's flat had been empty since her death and they can stop sending monthly harassing letters. Picked up the mail there again last weekend, we're now on an 'Enforcement Action' and _will_ be visited, etc, etc. Meanwhile, I'm 90% certain I'll be cancelling my own Licence soon and deleting iPlayer off my AppleTV, mostly because the BBC can't figure out how to make subtitles work on it, so if I'm going to have to pirate Doctor Who so my wife can watch with subtitles anyway, why bother paying in the first place? The BBC is definitely an institution whose best days are long past. It's not really their fault - successive generations of political ruling classes have really hated them and wanted to see the end of public service broadcasting in the UK, but when presented with opportunities to showcase their value the BBC are definitely experts at stuffing it up.
- hunta2097 3y agoThe TVLA is borderline criminal. It's the main reason I hate the BBC now. What other service is openly accessible but you get fined if you use it?
- e2le 3y agoFor those without a TV, you may still require a license to watch live streams on your computer/smartphone. https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ33 https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ33
- IanCal 3y agoAnd on-demand things from the BBC, that got added in the last royal charter.
- hunta2097 3y agoI wish they would just lock it away behind a licensed paywall.
- NikkiA 3y agoThey word that as vaguely as possible, far more vague than the actual law states, but basically no, only if the stream is the equivalent of watching live on a BBC channel. They're just hoping you interpret their vague nonsense as liberally as possible 'to be safe'.
- TheOtherHobbes 3y agoHappened to an ex of mine. "Who? No, they're out. I'm just visiting." Got away with it too.
- arp242 3y agoUnless that person was a complete muppet they probably realized it was an excuse, but didn't think it was worth having a fight about it. And you're not obligated to talk to them or let them enter your home. "I don't have a TV and I'm not interested in having a discussion about it. Good day to you."
- RajT88 3y agoI remember reading about said ignorance once early smartphones and laptops could have a TV tuner.
- DaiPlusPlus 3y agoOther than the short-lived “HTC Lobster” (yes, that’s its name), which had a DVB-H receiver, I’m not aware of any phones having a TV tuner. Did any laptops have built-in tuners that weren’t just PC-cards, though? ——- EDIT: Huh… apparently the Lobster was actually TV-over-DAB and not DVB-H, which was used by some Nokia phones.
- gryn 3y agoa lot of chinese, korean, or japanese. basically phones targeting the asian market had them. I remember buying a phone that had a retractable antenna on the side. most you were not able to buy outside asian markets since they would probably not work. much like dual sim phone, there was a lot more of them on phone targeting asian markets but very rare when the phone is targeting the rest of the world.
- RajT88 3y agoHalf remembering an article which I can no longer find from more than 15 years back... But I seem to recall there being TV tuners available for SD slots on both Palm and Windows devices. Phones didn't necessarily ship with the capability.
- stevewallis 3y agoIn a classic episode of The Young Ones, when the TV inspector knocks on the door, the others stall him while Vyvyan attempts to eat the TV. Finally the inspector barges in and finds Vyvyan with a power cord hanging out of his mouth to which he replies “It’s a toaster”.
- arp242 3y agoI miss TV shows like that; just simple plots based on real-life scenarios that we can all relate to.
- nomel 3y agoTaking this to the extreme: Van Eck Phreaking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Eck_phreaking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Eck_phreaking
- fmajid 3y agoMade really easy: https://www.rtl-sdr.com/gnu-radio-tempest-implementation-now-available/ https://www.rtl-sdr.com/gnu-radio-tempest-implementation-now...
- IanCal 3y agoIn the UK there's a tax for viewing live TV, and more recently for a subset of on-demand content (specifically from the BBC). Yes, it's a tax. Another bit of context that's important is that at the relevant times for this, you're looking at almost certainly 4 possible channels for most of the population of the UK. There's a few ways of viewing some of this One is simply that it's a lie and a deterrent. Not so interesting on the technical level. Most likely true but a dead end for fun tech ideas. The more interesting is to think about how this could work - certainly some of the people in BBC R&D have. I'm sure someone will mention Van Eck phreaking, which is extremely cool but more than you need. A much simpler approach, and one that actually seems easiest is > it was thought that they operated by detecting electromagnetic radiation given off by a TV, looking at the diffuse light through windows/curtains. You then simply need to have a live TV feed tuned to each channel and see if there's a direct match between the changing light and your own blurred monitor tuned to the same channel. You can make this even easier by doing it at certain times, when Eastenders or Coronation Street is on, as a vast amount of the population would watch these.
- wrexx0r 3y agoHackaday did a breakdown of the methods and how they worked, and one of the more modern methods was optical comparison to a live broadcast https://hackaday.com/2021/01/18/tv-detector-vans-once-prowled-the-streets-of-england/ https://hackaday.com/2021/01/18/tv-detector-vans-once-prowle...
- LeoPanthera 3y ago> Yes, it's a tax. It's is very specifically not a tax, primarily because if you choose not to consume public service broadcasting, you do not have to pay it.
- DarkmSparks 3y agoso wage tax is also not actually a tax, because if you dont have a wage you do not have to pay it? Hmmmm, not convinced that logic works tbh.
- blackfawn 3y ago
- DonHopkins 3y agoWell that explains the man in the cat detector van from the Ministry of Howzinge. https://youtu.be/pnq96W9jtuw?t=185 https://youtu.be/pnq96W9jtuw?t=185
- hprotagonist 3y agoit was spelt like that on t' van!
- hunta2097 3y agoI used to be quite positive about the BBC, but since my daughter went to Uni, she has been hounded by the TV licensing company. Now I am extremely negative about the BBC and I won't shed a tear when it loses its funding.
- DaiPlusPlus 3y agoAre you concerned what the media landscape could turn into without the BBC, though?
- hunta2097 3y agoYes, if they offer a "news only subscription" at a reasonable price I would buy it. I literally watch 0 British TV apart from the news. I wish they would block iPlayer if you don't have a TV licence. I personally haven't had a TV antenna or dish attached to my TV for years. Most of my entertainment is YouTube!
- DaiPlusPlus 3y agoWell, there's Reuters for that.
- IanCal 3y ago> I wish they would block iPlayer if you don't have a TV licence. It's not totally blocked but you do need a license for iPlayer legally. I wish they'd let me tie my license to my account so it stops making me answer whether I've got one.
- crtasm 3y agoClicking yes == not blocked at all.
- gizajob 3y agoThe BBC turns out a lot of sh*te. Even its ostensibly high-brow documentaries are overemotional and condescending compared to what they used to be, and the corporation's impartiality is very very tenuous. License fee needs to go and be replaced by a subscription, because they're decades beyond their remit.
- zabzonk 3y agoas a uk citizen, i've never seen one of these vans. i have been visited by the enforcement agents. at the time i did not have a tv or an internet connection so i told them to piss off. i do now not have a tv, but i do have bbc iplayer and i pay for it. and actually, i used to work for the BBC!
- qup 3y agoWhat if I'm just playing Super Mario Bros?
- DaiPlusPlus 3y agoLegally speaking (under the laws as they were in the 1990s), provided you physically removed the RF demodulator from the TV set - and connected your Nintendo using Composite cables, you’d be in-the-clear. …of course, no-one disassembles a TV to comply, that’d be unsafe (high-voltage CRTs are scary)
- LeoPanthera 3y agoYou don't have to remove the demodulator. Simply not connecting it to an antenna is enough. This circumstance is specifically covered in the examples of when it's not necessary to pay the license fee.
- exabrial 3y agoIf they didn’t want me to receive the signals… they could not broadcast them into my house?
- IanCal 3y agoIt's a tax, it's certainly fine to disagree with it but it's simply a tax. And you're surely aware that signals don't work like that.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- goles 3y agoI think Ps point is that the onus for payment is on the distributor when the product is broadcast universily, but the receipt of it is the crime. And funnily enough, the signals do work like that.[1] [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Caroline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Caroline
- IanCal 3y agoReceipt of the signals is not a crime though. Using them to watch live TV without a license is. And my point is that the answer to "why do I have to pay if I don't use..." is that it's a tax. It's not a commercial decision it's taxing something to raise revenue to be spent on a public service. > And funnily enough, the signals do work like that.[1] I don't understand how that's related to making a signal of that wavelength miss a house.
- kn0where 3y agoDon’t forget about the classic 80s song “Radar Van” by Johannes Vonk and the Clogheads: https://youtu.be/F7_1rc8riNU?si=uuVIn26cZNPBgHPv https://youtu.be/F7_1rc8riNU?si=uuVIn26cZNPBgHPv
- johnnyworker 3y agoIronically this made me scramble to the next topical (at least tangential) ear bleach I could think of to forget about what you just posted ^^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3j_sclyX5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3j_sclyX5o
- lph 3y agoJohannes Vonk and the Clogheads... now there's a band from the days when the bin man was hard
- pard68 3y agoAlways boggled my mind that in the UK there is a tax on owning a television.
- sys_64738 3y agoPlenty of European countries do it like Ireland. Note that there were color and black & white licenses for b&w Televisions. You minimally needed a B&W license to listen to the radio.
- pard68 3y agoYou need a license to listen to the radio?
- NikolaNovak 3y agoI believe there is a lot of push back in UK. I love the idea personally
- dharmab 3y agoYou can own a television without paying the fee. You're required to pay the fee if you use it to watch live TV. If you use it for home movies, video games, computers, etc. you don't have to pay.
- LeoPanthera 3y agoThe UK license fee is the biggest bargain in the history of public service broadcasting and entertainment. For £13 a month you get seven commercial-free TV channels, 12 commercial free national radio stations, at least one local station depending on where you live, and the amazing BBC website, which includes news, sport, weather, and, of course, the iPlayer, which offers almost all of the above on-demand, commercial free, and not even encrypted. As an ex-pat I only wish that there was a mechanism for me to pay it from outside the UK. I miss the BBC more than anything else in the UK.
- woleium 3y agodont forget the iPlayer :)
- LeoPanthera 3y agoI did, in fact, mention it!
- woleium 3y agooops, so you did!
- sircastor 3y agoI’ve said a number of times over the years that I’d be happy to pay the fee to get the BBC in the US. Unfortunately it’s wrapped up in all kinds of licensing and legal agreements. I recall the first year I was married encountering Doctor Who on our local PBS affiliate, and enjoying the heck out of it. A few years after that it was gone, having moved exclusively to BBC America. And now to Disney Plus…
- LeoPanthera 3y agoOnly new Doctor Who is on Disney+. Old Doctor Who is on "Max", for some reason.
- qingcharles 3y ago
- pengaru 3y agoThis strikes me as one of those uniquely British oddities.
- SheinhardtWigCo 3y agoEvidence from these vans has never been used in court. [1] They’re total bullshit; a masterful piece of social engineering. [1] https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/967319/response/2299862/attach/html/4/RFI20230527%20Response.pdf.html https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/967319/response/22998...
- seanhunter 3y agoThese were most definitely a scam. They have/had some sort of database of addresses (especially ones where a license had previously been at that address and then had expired) and they just used to pressure people who are at an address that didn’t have a license by sending (very) threatening letters and insisting on coming around for an inspection saying they had detected a TV. Anecdote 1: My parents-in-law only got a television in the very last years of their life, but long before that they used to occasionally get the threatening letters etc and people coming round saying they had detected a TV. On one memorable occasion my father-in-law was so fed up he insisted on bringing the TV license inspector in the house and took him through an extremely exhaustive list of places where the TV could be, forcing him to check each one. “Perhaps it’s in the toilet cistern? We should check!” <gets TV guy to open the top of the toilet to check whether a TV is somehow hiding inside> “What about in the bread bin! You could probably get a small TV in there.” <forces TV inspector guy to look in the bread bin> etc Anecdote 2: At one point in my life I rented a flat and didn’t have a TV. I started getting the letters, including some printed on red paper, saying they were going to get bailiffs to come round because they had detected me watching TV using their sooper seekrit special detector van[1] and stating the fines and possible criminal consequences and their determination to prosecute me and bring me to justice. I wrote to them saying they had to put up or shut up - get a court order and come see whether I have a television - and I would welcome seeing them attempt in court to prove I had one. I’m a strong supporter of public service broadcasting and think the BBC is an amazing deal, but the tactics around TV license enforcement are and always have been really disgraceful. [1] Clearly impossible since I didn’t have a TV, this was before streaming to devices and in any case at that time my life in the flat comprised me coming home, exhausted, in the very early hours of the morning, going immediately to sleep, waking up a (very) few hours later and dragging my sorry ass back to work. I did nothing other than sleep and shower in that flat. It was a pretty dark period.
- Daviey 3y agoTwice in my life, I've encountered unnecessary hassle from TV Licensing (TVL). First, when I purchased my initial home, I didn't immediately get a TV. However, when I did, the retailer was obliged to inform TVL under The Wireless Telegraphy Act of 1967. The TV arrived, still boxed, and a TVL representative showed up implying he had the right to enter, which he did not. I had preemptively bought the license, but still faced this intrusion. His insinuations were met with a firm response, because it was clear they were trying to catch me off-guard. Later, during a phase where I chose not to watch or record live TV, I didn't renew my TV license after moving. This led to a barrage of letters and threats from TVL, all addressed to "Legal Occupier." I called them to halt these communications, finding them harassing. They agreed to stop only if I disclosed my name. Valuing my privacy, I declined, suggesting they use "Legal Occupier" as my identifier. This was met with reluctance but eventually processed. These experiences highlight the invasive procedures of TVL, especially for those who value privacy.
- mynameisnoone 3y agoA TV license is/was a Hobson's choice, and an unnecessary one that could've been funded by a tiny tax on corporate profits for the commonwealth of a better society. In the interests of taxing the people with the least money in society, bathrooms were/are also often for-profit. My mother and aunt recounted sliding under stall partitions to dodge this tax on basic human needs.
- sublinear 3y agoThis never made any sense to me. The licensing fee is required even though there's always been more to TV than just public broadcasting? Owning a TV was never sufficient to impose this. Wouldn't it have made more sense from the very beginning to sell receivers instead? No, that would naturally limit the viewer count. Clearly the intent was to push propaganda and the license isn't significant to the funding, but rather a vote of loyalty.