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Like a dummy I paid something around 7,500 euros for the so-called FSD package when the Model 3 arrived in Europe in early 2019. Five years later it still does

• ubercore 3y ago
  Our Tesla never knows what the real speed limit is in Norway either. Tunnels are especially bad.
  • flexd 3y ago
    Mine never knows either, and if I dare use the cruise control or autopilot on the highway near Oslo it phantom brakes by bridges and shadows randomly. Same bridge it was phantom braking when a friend had a Model X like 8 years ago, still not fixed even if probably thousands of Teslas drive there every day
    • deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  • jmpman 3y ago
    Mine has no idea about the speed limit in the school zone next to my house. Why? Because the speed limit changes based upon if school is in session. When is school in session??? You might be able to tell by looking at the school parking lot. You could open a web browser, navigate to the correct school districts web page, download the school year calendar in pdf form, and determine if today is a school day. Or you could do what my tesla does and lets me drive 10mph over the regular speed limit (as of about a year ago - maybe they’ve fix it)
    • pierrelf 3y ago
      Huh, the schools around my place have signs with times indicating session, so like 8-16 weekdays is 30 km/h otherwise 50. Are you expected to know that yourself?
      • stirlo 3y ago
        The commenter above is accounting for the holiday periods where it’s a weekday but school is not in session so the limits don’t apply.
        • jmpman 3y ago
          Right, “7pm - 4pm School Days”. When are school days? My Tesla doesn’t seem to know.
• ckdarby 3y ago
  It isn't about hand-tuning. I'm still confused by your description of speed limit signs in Finland. Is the speed limit emitted by LEDs? Why is it ever different between winter and summer? Etc. If the sign is not white background,no LEDs, and black or red font I as a human would ignore the signage just like the car is probably trained for as that isn't reflective of North America standards.
  • ceejayoz 3y ago
    > Why is it ever different between winter and summer? Because road conditions are different. We have these variable limit LED signs in the US, too. https://wjla.com/amp/news/local/virginia-electronic-speed-limit-sign-i-95-i95-safety-vdot-travel-dmv-beltway-police-traffic-variable-transportation-dc-fredericksburg-nova-fairfax-loudoun-caroline https://wjla.com/amp/news/local/virginia-electronic-speed-li... > that isn't reflective of North America standards But they make and sell them outside North America.
  • pavlov 3y ago
    You would ignore all the speed limit signs on a highway because they don’t have a white background? Come on. That doesn’t make any sense. Obviously the sign displaying a number enclosed in a circle is the speed limit (which you might also deduce by observing the speed everybody else is going). Next you’ll tell me that Tesla can’t possibly be expected to understand speed limits expressed in the exotic unit of km/h. It’s fine if the car is trained for North American standards only. Why then is Tesla marketing and selling this feature in Europe at all? What did I get for 7,500 euros? I’m sure they have fine print in the contract saying “we don’t guarantee this feature will ever do anything.” So I’m taking it as an expensive lesson.
    • supermatt 3y ago
      You can likely make a small claim to recoup that cost under EU consumer protection laws. Given the ongoing promises as per the article, I doubt there would be a time limit on instantiating such a case. EDIT: I think the limit is only 5000 for small claim, but you dont need to go the small claim route, its just super easy to do so.
• simion314 3y ago
  I am wondering if your local laws can help in this case or in the contract you signed there is some tricky text that allows them to sell you a broken FSD.
• SargeDebian 3y ago
  There was an article here recently of someone who settled with Tesla for a refund with interest. I don't know Finnish consumer protection legislation but if they didn't deliver and aren't doing to, that might be something to look into.
  • linsomniac 3y ago
    I'm thinking it would be fair to get a refund based on what the cost of the FSD would be if invested in TSLA stock at the time of purchase. For me, that'd be a 17x. They used that money to build a company, after all.
    • AH4oFVbPT4f8 3y ago
      Nice idea, but how would that work had the stock gone down?
      • sangnoir 3y ago
        Multiply with a fraction <1?
  • jampekka 3y ago
    Finnish consumer protection officials very rarely do much. If the company doesn't voluntarily refund or otherwise compensate, you're usually SOL. Finnish consumer ombudsman (and only the ombudsman) got the power to sue a class action suit in 2007. This power has been used exactly zero times.
• kortilla 3y ago
  > I’m guessing it works better on some Californian roads that have been carefully hand-tuned by Tesla so they can show the Boss an illusion of progress. It has nothing to do with “the boss”. It’s just basic bias of where the engineers are and where testing happens.
  • meibo 3y ago
    Do you work at Tesla? Or any big company? I definitely make sure that my work demos well for my higher ups, especially those that are known to be unpredictable and moody :)
    • kortilla 3y ago
      Not at Tesla and I agree that happens. My point is that isn’t what drives this particular issue. All of the other major players (waymo, cruise) suffer the same biases without a moody billionaire at the helm.
  • pavlov 3y ago
    > ‘It has nothing to do with “the boss”‘ All the stories about Twitter/X suggest that absolutely everything revolves around what the boss wants on a given day. That’s autocratic micromanagement, and its downside is that the boss ultimately has a limited attention span and employees learn how to distract him with shiny demos that show a glimpse of the impossible thing he demanded they ship.
    • kortilla 3y ago
      Nope, cruise and Waymo suffer the exact same biases. They are just savvy enough to not pretend they can operate outside of their focus/training markets.
  • ryanklee 3y ago
    It reflects Musk's own bias. If he actually gave a shit about competence and quality, Teslas would be more functional outside California. But he doesn't and won't, so until he crawls into a hole somewhere and disappears, Teslas will continue to be over hyped garbage.
• cjrp 3y ago
  > The car can’t even do the bare minimum: it doesn’t recognize speed limits on most highways in Finland because it gets confused by round LED signs That's crazy; my 2018 Skoda (a cheap car, for anyone outside Europe) manages this, including temporary changes down to 40/50/60 on the motorway.
  • FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >That's crazy; my 2018 Skoda (a cheap car, for anyone outside Europe) manages this Yeah, but you're not seen as a hip modern well-off planetary savior, if you don't buy Elon's latest hype. How's the hyperloop going?
  • robertlagrant 3y ago
    Not that it changes much, but your cheap car probably uses the same tech developed across all of VAG group, so the price of your car is less of a factor. People buying VWs, Audis and Porsches probably fund it!
    • cjrp 3y ago
      Yeh 100%, pretty sure it's a standard Bosch system in fact.
• angm128 3y ago
  The whole FSD thing is so misleading that it should make buyers eligible to a full refund. While the Tesla website only promises to deliver the feature at some point in the future, public comments from musk and others made it look like this point will be end of year
  • toddmorey 3y ago
    Public comments from the CEO need to hold the same weight as the company website, I think. Especially when they all end in “100% confident”.
    • FireBeyond 3y ago
      Especially when Tesla has stated in filings that @elonmusk or whatever his Twitter handle is "is an official communication channel of Tesla" (which was part of the SEC's issue), though I realize that many of those statements were elsewhere too. Musk, in 2015, viewed FSD as a solved problem just needing implementation: "I view it as a solved problem. We know exactly what we need to do and we will be there in a few years." Somewhere along the line, the problem got unsolved. In 2022, "Our focus now is just on solving this problem". https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas-elon-musk-says-autonomous-driving-not-all-that-hard-to-achieve-1426624848 https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas-elon-musk-says-autonomou...
• gruturo 3y ago
  I bought "just" the EAP since by 2022 the FSD was clearly a scam, but I feel like an idiot for having purchased even that. 0 of its 5 advertised features are usable and 3 of them don't exist at all: Navigate on Autopilot - Useless. Only handles highways, deactivates itself on normal roads. It can theoretically handle switching from one highway to another - in practice it attempts suicide every single time. If you don't intervene it will either crash, or cause a crash behind you. Auto Lane Change - Nope, not "Auto" at all in Europe. Got to "consent" with your indicator lights and a gentle nudge on the steering wheel. Said nudge must apply a torque between 0.44 and 0.46 newton - anything less won't register, anything more will override the autopilot and leave you in manual control. Also it won't work if there's a car less than 200mt behind you in your target lane - it's ridiculously cautious. Finally, 30% of the time, despite above conditions being met, it hesitates for 30 seconds then opts to stay in its lane with a timeout error. Autopark - nope, not since they removed the 3 EUR worth of ultrasonic sensors. Summon - nope, see above. Smart Summon - nope, again, see above If there's anything like a class action in Germany I'll gladly join. This is really a pity because I like the car apart from this scammy aspect.
• jvanderbot 3y ago
  I'm compiling a list of things I hate about my tesla. https://jodavaho.io/posts/things-i-hate-about-my-tesla.html https://jodavaho.io/posts/things-i-hate-about-my-tesla.html New one to add: The front license plate falls off constantly. They dont require those in california, so when you buy one in states that do require it, they send you a janky plastic holder with just a bit of double sided tape that never seems to hold. Funniest one: When you are using cruise control you cannot disable the wipers.
  • ariwilson 3y ago
    California does require front license plates, and putting one on a Tesla is still a PITA. There is one company licensed to do front license plate stickers instead of plates though: https://licenseplatewrap.com/ https://licenseplatewrap.com/
    • _yb2s 3y ago
      Kind of… there is an unwritten rule that if you have an expensive looking car without a front plate, it won’t be enforced. In wealthy neighborhoods a substantial fraction of cars won’t have front plates. You will see a lot of Porsches, Teslas, etc. that were sold new without holes for a front plate mount and never had one. If you have an old beater, or the wrong skin color, you can get pulled over for not having a front plate.
    • sowbug 3y ago
      You can also try a color printer and adhesive laser-friendly sheets that claim to be weatherproof. Ours are looking a bit haggard five years later after printing them, but we haven't been issued any tickets. I'm sure they're not legal, but nobody seems to mind.
  • dreamcompiler 3y ago
    > Funniest one: When you are using cruise control you cannot disable the wipers. You cannot disable the automatic wipers when using cruise control. This makes sense to me: Because they use the cameras for cruise control, they need to be able to clean the cameras whenever necessary. If the weather is clear, the automatic wipers never come on unless you hit a puddle or something.
• rsynnott 3y ago
  > I paid something around 7,500 euros for the so-called FSD package when the Model 3 arrived in Europe in early 2019. So, this is something I never got. Like, even if you were convinced it was something which was definitely going to be delivered, on time, as promised, in a form that wouldn't cause the regulators to immediately ban it (and frankly this would be an unreasonable set of things to believe; even where the initial set of promises is reasonable, and they were not in this case, shit happens and things get delayed for reasons beyond anyone's control), why not just buy it when it became available? I don't get the impulse to pre-buy this sort of thing.
  • Someone 3y ago
    > why not just buy it when it became available? Not the OP, but the reason probably is “because it likely would be significantly more expensive at that time”.
• IshKebab 3y ago
  They've been misleading to the point of lying about FSD, but I feel like anyone who reads this site should have known enough not to pay that! Hope you get some of it back eventually anyway. Why there hasn't been a class action about it yet is a real mystery.
• jjav 3y ago
  It is difficult to understand how this is not outright fraud. If I bought a Honda without ABS (let's pretend it was in the 90s) but paid a lot extra for a promise that they'll retrofit ABS later but never do, clearly that would be fraud.