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Assuming this ruling stands, and the pattern is extended to Apple as well, what does a multi-app-store world look like? How does one "install" a new app store,

Assuming this ruling stands, and the pattern is extended to Apple as well, what does a multi-app-store world look like? How does one "install" a new app store, what sort of permissions does it get? Who can start a new app store? What risks does a user accept when they do business with a 3rd party store? I for one would welcome a mobile store from Valve, Epic etc, especially if I could have my purchases work on multiple mobile platforms.

fallingknife 3y ago
It looks like the world before app stores. Anybody can develop software and sell it to anyone, who can then install it on any compatible device.
- astrange 3y ago
  You couldn't easily install software on phones before smartphone app stores; the app developer had to make a deal with individual carriers to allow it.
  - redserk 3y ago
    Not really. At least Windows Mobile and PalmOS let you install anything very easily. It was just difficult initially finding apps.
    - MBCook 3y ago
      It was POSSIBLE. Was it easy enough for the average user? I saw plenty of people who never installed anything because it was PITA. There’s a reason the App Store revolutionized things.
  - cromka 3y ago
    Not really, if you consider Symbian pre-smartphone OS.
  - fallingknife 3y ago
    I really meant before smartphones and the way software works on desktops/laptops.
  - rpgwaiter 3y ago
    Downloading an APK from a website is just as easy as installing an exe on windows from some site, and millions of barely tech-literate people do that every day
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      Yes and they get viruses, malware, and ransomware from doing so. My mom searched for a printer driver and ended up installing some third party crap wars on her computer
      - cbozeman 3y ago
        Then Mom needs more training on how to differentiate between legitimate sites and non-legitimate ones. I've said it before, I'll say it again, as many times as people need to hear it: There is no such thing as, "I'm just not a computer person!" We're over and done with that era of human history. Just like we're over and done with, "I just can't read and write!" Too bad. You live in a world were reading and writing is required just to exist. It's been that way for about 100 years, give or take depending on who you ask. Now you need to have basic understanding of computers and the Internet. That's the world we're living in now.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        And how has that worked for the last 40 years?
        rvba 3y ago
        It worked pretty well. Should we ban cars since there are people who cannot drive?
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Have you really been paying attention to everything going on with the typical PC?
scarface_74 3y ago
Epic already lost the trial in the Apple case. Courts in the US and other countries have treated Google differently as an OS provider to OEMs than Apple as a single vendor. Would they also make Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft open up their platforms?
- aaomidi 3y ago
  > Would they also make Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft open up their platforms? God I hope so.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    It would be terrible for consoles. They would not be able to recover their costs early enough in the lifecycle. Which means that the time between console releases would be much longer than it already is. It also would put Nintendo in an untenable situation since they rely on low price hardware as their differentiation.
    - raincole 3y ago
      The would be the end of consoles. At this point consoles have very few advantages to PC. If they got "opened up" it would be zero.
      - ethbr1 3y ago
        It's just look a lot more like a standardized PC. Which they they probably should by this point.
        raincole 3y ago
        Perhaps Steam Deck model is actually the future of the consoles...
        threeseed 3y ago
        Sure. But there would be zero incentive for Sony, Nintendo etc to build one. Because Acer, Asus etc could simply come along and undercut them on price and still have access to the exact same game catalog. And then they would each decide to add more proprietary features or add more performance. And so you've just recreated the PC gaming market again.
threeseed 3y ago
Honestly not much different to today. a) Apple, Google etc could just refuse to host any apps that are being sold on other stores. This sort of exclusivity is common place and legal. b) Larger developers who have their own agendas like Epic and their metaverse will run their own stores. c) Everyone else will stay with Apple/Google. The costs of running a third party store are significant and ultimately developers or consumers will need to pay for it. So either end users or developers will end up having to pay more for an experience that is far worse than what they have today. And if a) ends up true then developers would lose their biggest distribution channel.
- MBCook 3y ago
  For all Epic’s talk, and as much as people support third-party App Store, they only really care about their third-party App Store. They just want to get to be the middleman instead of Apple/Google. This seems like an enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of thing… be very careful supporting them. They’re not a paragon of virtue.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
aprilthird2021 3y ago
The case is about the fees in an anti-competitive situation, not about whether or not consumers should be allowed to install their own software on these devices. The stores can be the exact same with the fees removed and device prices hiked, afaict
rvba 3y ago
You allready have 2 stores on samsung devices: goole play store and the samsung store. They both work the same. Choose an app and install it. They work like any other app... You can also download apps from the "f droid" depository. You can even turn on developer options and install raw apk files. Those can contain viruses. (Or more probably: are pirated) Funny to have this discussion hacker news? I thought everyone was using side loaded apks from apkmirror when you needed an old version.

fallingknife 3y ago

It looks like the world before app stores. Anybody can develop software and sell it to anyone, who can then install it on any compatible device.

astrange 3y ago
You couldn't easily install software on phones before smartphone app stores; the app developer had to make a deal with individual carriers to allow it.
- redserk 3y ago
  Not really. At least Windows Mobile and PalmOS let you install anything very easily. It was just difficult initially finding apps.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    It was POSSIBLE. Was it easy enough for the average user? I saw plenty of people who never installed anything because it was PITA. There’s a reason the App Store revolutionized things.
- cromka 3y ago
  Not really, if you consider Symbian pre-smartphone OS.
- fallingknife 3y ago
  I really meant before smartphones and the way software works on desktops/laptops.
- rpgwaiter 3y ago
  Downloading an APK from a website is just as easy as installing an exe on windows from some site, and millions of barely tech-literate people do that every day
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Yes and they get viruses, malware, and ransomware from doing so. My mom searched for a printer driver and ended up installing some third party crap wars on her computer
    - cbozeman 3y ago
      Then Mom needs more training on how to differentiate between legitimate sites and non-legitimate ones. I've said it before, I'll say it again, as many times as people need to hear it: There is no such thing as, "I'm just not a computer person!" We're over and done with that era of human history. Just like we're over and done with, "I just can't read and write!" Too bad. You live in a world were reading and writing is required just to exist. It's been that way for about 100 years, give or take depending on who you ask. Now you need to have basic understanding of computers and the Internet. That's the world we're living in now.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        And how has that worked for the last 40 years?
        rvba 3y ago
        It worked pretty well. Should we ban cars since there are people who cannot drive?
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Have you really been paying attention to everything going on with the typical PC?

scarface_74 3y ago

Epic already lost the trial in the Apple case. Courts in the US and other countries have treated Google differently as an OS provider to OEMs than Apple as a single vendor. Would they also make Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft open up their platforms?

aaomidi 3y ago
> Would they also make Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft open up their platforms? God I hope so.
- threeseed 3y ago
  It would be terrible for consoles. They would not be able to recover their costs early enough in the lifecycle. Which means that the time between console releases would be much longer than it already is. It also would put Nintendo in an untenable situation since they rely on low price hardware as their differentiation.
  - raincole 3y ago
    The would be the end of consoles. At this point consoles have very few advantages to PC. If they got "opened up" it would be zero.
    - ethbr1 3y ago
      It's just look a lot more like a standardized PC. Which they they probably should by this point.
      - raincole 3y ago
        Perhaps Steam Deck model is actually the future of the consoles...
      - threeseed 3y ago
        Sure. But there would be zero incentive for Sony, Nintendo etc to build one. Because Acer, Asus etc could simply come along and undercut them on price and still have access to the exact same game catalog. And then they would each decide to add more proprietary features or add more performance. And so you've just recreated the PC gaming market again.

threeseed 3y ago

Honestly not much different to today. a) Apple, Google etc could just refuse to host any apps that are being sold on other stores. This sort of exclusivity is common place and legal. b) Larger developers who have their own agendas like Epic and their metaverse will run their own stores. c) Everyone else will stay with Apple/Google. The costs of running a third party store are significant and ultimately developers or consumers will need to pay for it. So either end users or developers will end up having to pay more for an experience that is far worse than what they have today. And if a) ends up true then developers would lose their biggest distribution channel.

MBCook 3y ago
For all Epic’s talk, and as much as people support third-party App Store, they only really care about their third-party App Store. They just want to get to be the middleman instead of Apple/Google. This seems like an enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of thing… be very careful supporting them. They’re not a paragon of virtue.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

aprilthird2021 3y ago

The case is about the fees in an anti-competitive situation, not about whether or not consumers should be allowed to install their own software on these devices. The stores can be the exact same with the fees removed and device prices hiked, afaict

rvba 3y ago

You allready have 2 stores on samsung devices: goole play store and the samsung store. They both work the same. Choose an app and install it. They work like any other app... You can also download apps from the "f droid" depository. You can even turn on developer options and install raw apk files. Those can contain viruses. (Or more probably: are pirated) Funny to have this discussion hacker news? I thought everyone was using side loaded apks from apkmirror when you needed an old version.