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Esports betting is the wild west frontier, targetting kids. It's one of the trifecta of biggest stains on professional Counter-Strike, along with Saudi and UAE

Esports betting is the wild west frontier, targetting kids. It's one of the trifecta of biggest stains on professional Counter-Strike, along with Saudi and UAE money and weapon skins gambling. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JT17l53Fkj0&pp=ygUWaG91bmdvdW5nYWduZSBnYW1ibGluZw%3D%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JT17l53Fkj0&pp=ygUWaG91bmdvdW5.... Edit: Vast majority of CS tournaments are structured into two phases, "groups" and playoffs. Losing a match in groups means falling through into the "lower bracket", one Major tournament (ESL Pro League) even has three brackets. This leads to many "upsets" as the top teams play the opening matches against much lower-ranked opponents half-asleep, and then march through to (semi-)finals through the lower/lowest bracket. This effect was clearly demonstrated in a recent tournament with no second chances (Gamers8), where every underdog got eliminated in the first round. i don't bet on CS because of the unpredictability enabled by bracketing, but anyone could have made a shit ton of money by betting on the higher-ranked teams in the first round of Gamers8. I'm convinced the bracketing is a result of collusion between tournament organizers and bookmakers, their major sponsors.

jimbob45 3y ago
Can you even bet with CSGO skins anymore? Once CSGOLounge went down, it seems like that scene died off for the most part.
- neuromanser 3y ago
  The wepon skin-gambling part lies strictly with Valve and the $2.50 key mechanic, with a minor but vital support from popular commentators like Chad "SPUNJ" Burchill. You can unlock a skin that sells for six digits; you will (99.9999999%) unlock a skin that sells for $0.17... And Valve will take 30% of that sale.
  - Ekaros 3y ago
    If we do away with that. Maybe we should also ban Magic The Gathering and like. After whole one ring serialized card it is pretty clear that whole thing is just an unregulated lottery...
    - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
      Skins provide nearly-zero gameplay value, so for those, the analogy with lottery holds. But Mt:G cards have entertainment value separate from their dollar value, so that's fundamentally different.
      - Ekaros 3y ago
        MTG cards could be sold only in pre-constructed decks or even like living card games. Nothing mandates them being exploitative loot boxes filled mostly with filler... Wouldn't it be better if you knew what you were getting?
        orwin 3y ago
        I only play draft, so no.
    - orwin 3y ago
      It's not, not really. Prices of new set cards are basically set by a box price and the probability to get said card. If the price is too high, people will buy a lot of box, other cards in the same set prices will fall, until the price is right.
    - neuromanser 3y ago
      I don't think MtG should be banned wholesale, but I agree with your lottery point. That facet should go.
donmcronald 3y ago
I remember the CSGO lotto scandal where one of the main people promoting was part owner or something [1]. > There were no financial charges held against Cassell. The craziest part of that whole debacle was his apology video with a nice view of the inside of his mansion and a fancy car sitting outside in the background. It was basically a "crime does pay" ad for the upcoming generation. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicate_(Internet_personality)#2013%E2%80%93present:_Vlogging_ventures_and_advertising_violations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicate_(Internet_personalit...
- neuromanser 3y ago
  That's way before I started following pro CS, but this past Sunday was the finals day of BetBoom Dacha, a tournament named after one of the competing teams. They placed 3rd-4th. https://www.hltv.org/events/7499/betboom-dacha-2023 https://www.hltv.org/events/7499/betboom-dacha-2023
WendyTheWillow 3y ago
Is there specific evidence to support the claim that esports betting is targeting kids, or is the presumption that video games = children?
- neuromanser 3y ago
  Yes, there's specific evidence. There's a shit ton of online esports gambling platforms with next-to no age controls. Some of these are prominent tournament and/or team sponsors, and plenty of them advertise through pro players and content creators. I can't make the case better than HOUNGOUNGAGNE in the video I linked earlier, and a few others: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp5eeNWKgFY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp5eeNWKgFY * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07QgHRPD0ms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07QgHRPD0ms * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT17l53Fkj0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT17l53Fkj0 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpvePQVscUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpvePQVscUQ
  - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
    "Lack of age controls" doesn't mean "targeting kids" though, does it? And I read the transcripts of the four videos, and I don't see anyone even suggesting the specific or explicit targeting of kids. Some mention of younger teens gambling, but nobody's claiming explicit targeting, as far as I can tell. My point, though, is the whole, "think of the kids!" argument is often abused to try and prohibit activity that any adult should be free to engage in.
    - voganmother42 3y ago
      from the video its like 8 in 10 youtube/twitch streams on the games: who do you think watches?
      - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
        Okay, so are we claiming then that video games are for children? That was my original question.

jimbob45 3y ago

Can you even bet with CSGO skins anymore? Once CSGOLounge went down, it seems like that scene died off for the most part.

neuromanser 3y ago
The wepon skin-gambling part lies strictly with Valve and the $2.50 key mechanic, with a minor but vital support from popular commentators like Chad "SPUNJ" Burchill. You can unlock a skin that sells for six digits; you will (99.9999999%) unlock a skin that sells for $0.17... And Valve will take 30% of that sale.
- Ekaros 3y ago
  If we do away with that. Maybe we should also ban Magic The Gathering and like. After whole one ring serialized card it is pretty clear that whole thing is just an unregulated lottery...
  - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
    Skins provide nearly-zero gameplay value, so for those, the analogy with lottery holds. But Mt:G cards have entertainment value separate from their dollar value, so that's fundamentally different.
    - Ekaros 3y ago
      MTG cards could be sold only in pre-constructed decks or even like living card games. Nothing mandates them being exploitative loot boxes filled mostly with filler... Wouldn't it be better if you knew what you were getting?
      - orwin 3y ago
        I only play draft, so no.
  - orwin 3y ago
    It's not, not really. Prices of new set cards are basically set by a box price and the probability to get said card. If the price is too high, people will buy a lot of box, other cards in the same set prices will fall, until the price is right.
  - neuromanser 3y ago
    I don't think MtG should be banned wholesale, but I agree with your lottery point. That facet should go.

donmcronald 3y ago

I remember the CSGO lotto scandal where one of the main people promoting was part owner or something [1]. > There were no financial charges held against Cassell. The craziest part of that whole debacle was his apology video with a nice view of the inside of his mansion and a fancy car sitting outside in the background. It was basically a "crime does pay" ad for the upcoming generation. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicate_(Internet_personality)#2013%E2%80%93present:_Vlogging_ventures_and_advertising_violations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicate_(Internet_personalit...

neuromanser 3y ago
That's way before I started following pro CS, but this past Sunday was the finals day of BetBoom Dacha, a tournament named after one of the competing teams. They placed 3rd-4th. https://www.hltv.org/events/7499/betboom-dacha-2023 https://www.hltv.org/events/7499/betboom-dacha-2023

WendyTheWillow 3y ago

Is there specific evidence to support the claim that esports betting is targeting kids, or is the presumption that video games = children?

neuromanser 3y ago
Yes, there's specific evidence. There's a shit ton of online esports gambling platforms with next-to no age controls. Some of these are prominent tournament and/or team sponsors, and plenty of them advertise through pro players and content creators. I can't make the case better than HOUNGOUNGAGNE in the video I linked earlier, and a few others: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp5eeNWKgFY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp5eeNWKgFY * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07QgHRPD0ms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07QgHRPD0ms * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT17l53Fkj0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT17l53Fkj0 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpvePQVscUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpvePQVscUQ
- WendyTheWillow 3y ago
  "Lack of age controls" doesn't mean "targeting kids" though, does it? And I read the transcripts of the four videos, and I don't see anyone even suggesting the specific or explicit targeting of kids. Some mention of younger teens gambling, but nobody's claiming explicit targeting, as far as I can tell. My point, though, is the whole, "think of the kids!" argument is often abused to try and prohibit activity that any adult should be free to engage in.
  - voganmother42 3y ago
    from the video its like 8 in 10 youtube/twitch streams on the games: who do you think watches?
    - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
      Okay, so are we claiming then that video games are for children? That was my original question.