10 ms·

Waveterm

144 points by indigodaddy 3y ago

mariansam 3y ago
"Edit [...] with [...] VSCode. Ditch vim". Man, ditch VSCode, I want my vim
- akdor1154 3y ago
  And with this, you can have your vim while still loading a gig and a half of your ram down with electron!
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devaiops9001 3y ago
[flagged]
smegsicle 3y ago
so wave like google wave?
- markstos 3y ago
  If you are referring to how long Google Wave survived, then quite possibly.
bitwize 3y ago
Sigh. Electron. Even Warp.dev had the nous to implement their mOdErN terminal in Rust.
- Y_Y 3y ago
  hacker nous
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sph 3y ago
An Electron terminal with a EULA backed by two venture capitals. What's the world coming to? I'd rather keep something as crucial as a terminal emulator open-source, and with a latency within the hundreds of milliseconds. For the fancy remoting capabilities there's Emacs.
- IshKebab 3y ago
  I use VSCode's integrated terminal all the time and its performance and latency is indistinguishable from Gnome Terminal. This appears to be open source. But I don't know how you could make a viable business out of this. I mean it looks nice, but nice enough to pay for? I doubt it. And it's free... What's their business plan?
  - zokier 3y ago
    It's buried in the FAQ: > In the future we may launch cloud features to support terminal sharing, shared workspaces, shared playbooks, and terminal backup/sync. Presumably these cloud features will come with a subscription. But yeah, the VC backing combined with no solid business model makes me wary. It seems unlikely that the community will be super excited to start building integrations and extensions here to benefit some SV bros.
    - hahn-kev 3y ago
      "Shared playbooks" so like scripts? Isn't that just scripts?
      - markstos 3y ago
        Maybe. Playbook is also the precise word Ansible uses to describe automating tasks across multiple servers in their particular way. So it could be a hint about Ansible-like features.
  - bitwize 3y ago
    > What's their business plan? Mumble wango cloud mumble collaboration features... But basically, to burn through millions in VC money I think.
IshKebab 3y ago
This looks nice! Editing in a proper editor is for sure nicer than Vim - does that work even over SSH without having to install anything? Proper history search also sounds nice. I think I will probably stick to VSCode's integrated terminal tbh because it's well integrated. But if I was doing system admin rather than programming this looks awesome. Don't listen to the predictable HN nonsense. Electron is plenty fast enough for this. Vim sucks. Modern tooling is good.
- ckolkey 3y ago
  Meh, I'll stick with vim. Thanks for the advice though.
- wiseowise 3y ago
  > Vim sucks. Why?
  - IshKebab 3y ago
    Two main reasons: 1. It has a ridiculous learning curve to get to the same editing proficiency as just having multiple cursors. All Vim users imagine themselves to be editing text at the speed of light while users of "lesser" editors struggle with scalar editing. I have seen zero evidence of that. Anyone of my colleagues that use Vim struggle to do basic tasks because remembering the gazillions of mnemonics is too onerous. Meanwhile I can do anything I want very quickly in VSCode, and with immediate feedback! 2. It infests Unix by being the default editor in many situations (Git commit editing is probably the worst offender). Fine if you want to use your weird editor, but it should 100% not be the default editor EVER. There's a reason exiting Vim is a meme.
    - jzb 3y ago
      Vim isn’t for you, and that’s fine. Statements like “all Vim users…” aren’t really a great contribution to the discussion. I’ve used Vim for 20+ years. I like it, you don’t have to. I don’t try to shove it down anyone’s throat - nor do I try to tell you why your favorite tool sucks. Because it probably doesn’t suck - for you. Tell me what you like or what doesn’t work for you and leave the middle school attitude where it belongs.
k4runa 3y ago
Something about this design make it seem more like a chat interface to the terminal, and after using ChatGPT the idea of chatting to a raw computer terminal instead of one way commands seems so obvious... the future interface for everything looks more and more like it's just going to be chat based, or like a Jupyter notebook, and that seems amazing to me... because it's getting us ready for voice-based computing like Star Trek. I wish one day I can just turn on my computer and it does nothing but chat, no distracting apps or web browsers, just a minimalist chat interface.
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- FridgeSeal 3y ago
  > voice-based computing like Star Trek. It sure if you’re remembering most of Star Trek very well, the crew evidently, and demonstrably does more work on their consoles, which have actual UI’s. Can you imagine trying to navigate to a sub directory and run a binary but your LLM-assistant has decided that it thinks you want to search for the file name on the web? And you can’t just do it yourself, because they’ve taken away the actual tools from you. I think I’d actually go and become a goat-farmer at that point.
- amadeuspagel 3y ago
  I found the prompt at the bottom irritating, and I still find it irritating for ChatGPT. But chat apps are probably the apps that normal people spend most of their time in, so for them it's intuitive.
eternityforest 3y ago
It looks really nice! Ubuntu has made me slightly spoiled and less willing to try anything that's not packaged in the core repos, but maybe I'll make an exception. VS Code's integrated terminal is pretty great though.
- Levitating 3y ago
  Back when I used a debian based distribution I made use of https://bedrocklinux.org/ https://bedrocklinux.org/ to make use of the AUR. It's not for everyone though.
  - eternityforest 3y ago
    Wow, that is super clever and really cool! I can't imagine there not being some sort of Arch/Gentoo/LFS style Random Tech Trouble with that much custom craziness, but it does look kind of fun
    - Levitating 3y ago
      It certainly comes with some craziness. But most of it is documented[1]! For instance using BTRFS and GRUB with Bedrock currently causes issues. But when I turned my Linux Mint installation into Bedrock Linux I encountered no weird things. Eventually I starting booting into Arch instead of Linux Mint, but I can still boot Linux Mint if I want and I have access to all of its applications. It helps that the developer is very active, and often online on IRC for a chat. One functionality I still hope to see is the ability to use desktop environments across strata. Maybe in the next release. [1]: https://bedrocklinux.org/0.7/feature-compatibility.html https://bedrocklinux.org/0.7/feature-compatibility.html
rasse 3y ago
Neat, you can setup SSH connections as native terminal sessions. When you type in your server info and click connect, this happens: prompt> connecting to user@host... prompt> error connecting to remote: mshell client not found prompt> trying auto-install prompt> installing mshell v0.3.0 to user@host... Install something on a server without even asking? Also, what is "mshell client" or "mshell v0.3.0"?
- throwaway77384 3y ago
  That is my main issue as well. What is mshell? Why do I have to install it on my remote? Surely a dependency like that should be pointed out front and centre...
- junon 3y ago
  Not to shill, but WezTerm can also do this and isn't built on web stacks, if anyone is looking for something similar.
  - aorth 3y ago
    And not backed by venture capital.
  - nxpnsv 3y ago
    Wezterm rules…
  - linsomniac 3y ago
    The wezterm built-in mosh+tmux I use all.the.time and it works great. Working from my personal macbook I have a wezterm window running on my work Linux machine with multiple screens and windows and having first-class multiple window support in the terminal has been nice.
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rogual 3y ago
First time I saw an idea like this was with termkit [1], which I thought was great and was sad to see it didn't get continued development. I really feel like we overlook the ways in which we limit ourselves by having our CLI interfaces be tied to a thing that emulates a terminal from the 80s. The composability, scriptability, history, etc. of CLIs is great, but why should that preclude us from being able to quickly show a PNG or graph a function? Maybe it's an idea whose time has come. [1] https://github.com/unconed/TermKit https://github.com/unconed/TermKit
- sime2009 3y ago
  TermKit was one of the inspirations for Extraterm ( https://extraterm.org/ https://extraterm.org/ ). It separates command output, allows for reuse of previous output, as well mixing content types. The terminal VSCode has been picking up on these kinds of features lately. Now they can even "sticky" the previous command line at the top of the window when scrolling through long output. It has taken a long time, but these ideas are slowing spreading around.
- FridgeSeal 3y ago
  Terminal interfaces are devs due for an upgrade, but this doesn’t feel like a genuine solution to that, this feels like just try to pollute CLI land with the web-tech everyone already complains about.
- enriquto 3y ago
  > we limit ourselves by having our CLI interfaces be tied to a thing that emulates a terminal from the 80s > why should that preclude us from being able to quickly show a PNG or graph a function? I'm confused by this comment. The quintessential "terminal from the eighties" is xterm [0], that exists today and supports all kind of graphics protocols, like sixel [1]. I use it everyday, and it is very handy to graph functions inline (via gnuplot) and to quickly show png files. If anything, it is more "modern" terminals that lack these basic functionalities. Bu this is hardly a problem of being stuck with old technology. It is exactly the opposite! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xterm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xterm [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixel
JimDabell 3y ago
Looking at the screenshots, I find it really difficult to parse. Maybe if they simplified the prompt a bit it would be easier, but my focus is bouncing all around the screenshots trying to find the prompt. You’re typing in the centre of the screen not the left because of all that junk? What is the point in having status in the prompt if you control the window chrome and can put that status in a more convenient place? It’s also kinda weird how they try to add styling everywhere possible… except remove the styling from the output of ls so you can’t distinguish between file vs directory, executable vs non-executable, symlink vs regular file, etc. I really don’t understand what they are getting at with the copy either: > The modern terminal that keeps your flow in line > Keep development moving forward without the copy, pasting, saving, and exporting headache. What copy, pasting, saving, and exporting headache are they talking about?
- TobyTheDog123 3y ago
  I thought it was just the marketing trying to show off too many features at once, and I'd really like a more workspace-centric approach to terminals, so I gave it a download -- unfortunately the actual UI is worse than the screenshots they show. - Sidebar that is either HUGE (and branded) or nonexistent (I'd like to see something like Discord's approach here) - Only UI settings are a font size selector - The input and cwd are on different lines for some reason (though it shows huge helper text inline with the input) - Weird borders and shadows on elements that are super jarring.
FridgeSeal 3y ago
But like…why? At the risk of being “HN talks about rsync on the Dropbox thread” what’s this offering that can’t already do, for free, without a EULA, and inevitable VC-enshittification risk? > ditch vim for quick updates Bruh, have you seen the average vim user? They’re about the fastest people on a computer I’ve seen in my life. This is not exactly a convincing argument. > Render code, images, markdown, and CSV files without ever leaving the terminal. So like, bat/cat/any number of other tools that already exist, and dont require me to run a whole web-browser to operate? I just, don’t get the appeal, and I’m so curious as who is the target market for this? Are there armies of devs out there who are like “please, I wish my terminal was actually a web browser with a EULA, pls build a product for me!”??
- elcomet 3y ago
  > They’re about the fastest people on a computer I’ve seen in my life. I've seen plenty of people using vim that seemed fast (as in plenty of keys pressed, screens changed, etc), and thought they were fast but actually were pretty slow compared to some vs code users. I don't think the app makes a huge difference, rather the mentality to improve your workflow and be more efficient.
  - lijok 3y ago
    > I've seen plenty of people using vim that seemed fast (as in plenty of keys pressed, screens changed, etc), and thought they were fast but actually were pretty slow compared to some vs code users. Once or twice a year I'll see a PR with "<<<<<<< HEAD ... ====== ... >>>>>>> some-branch" in the code merged in (an unresolved merge conflict). Each and every single time, it's a vi or vim user.
- tapanih 3y ago
  It feels like it's for developers using VSCode, who are not comfortable with a terminal. It is likely meant to be easy-to-use with a mouse-friendly user interface and lots of built-in functionalities.
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b20000 3y ago
i thought this was about PPG synths but no
sgt 3y ago
It's Electron/TS based. I seriously doubt I can get used to using an Electron based beast for something as critical as a terminal. This is the one power user app where speed is factually of utmost urgency, and latency is non negotiable. I also don't like it using tons of memory. While this may be possible with Electron from what I have heard, I have yet to have seen it. So generally I stay away.
- wg0 3y ago
  Actually - VSCode comes with a built-in Terminal that's also built using Electron and TS. Never had any issues with it while using it as built-in Terminal from time to time.
  - franga2000 3y ago
    The VSCode terminal is the first time I've felt input lag in a terminal emulator before. When a program shits out thousands of lines of text (like catting a long log file), it takes forever to catch up compared to any other terminal (except the JetBrains builtin terminal, which is almost as slow but still noticeably faster).
    - sgt 3y ago
      In fact, some people still swear by xterm or rxtv alone due to sheer speed. I use Terminal.app on Mac which is also very fast but not xterm/rxvt fast.
- hnlmorg 3y ago
  I’m not the biggest fan of electron generally speaking but I don’t agree with your argument that Electron is too slow to work as a terminal emulator. Yes speed matters, but not nearly as much as you claim. Commands are run as separate processes so as long as the terminal reads from its PTY fast enough not to block those processes, which in all bar a very few edge cases it will be, you’re not going to experience any difference in performance. Besides, if you’re concerned about millisecond latency, then the issue you actually have is with multimedia content being rendered in the terminal rather than Electon itself. So no terminal emulator of this generation is going to meet your needs irrespective of what technologies it’s built from. Edit: downvoted for stating a fact. Maybe I should have also stated that I’ve also been working on this exact problem. In fact I’ve already got a shell that provides the CLI parts and been playing around with different technologies to handle the multimedia parts of the terminal emulation. It’s a harder problem to solve than people hand wave away when they complain about electron (hence why I only have a shell available for public use at this stage).
Fischgericht 3y ago
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a1o 3y ago
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joshstrange 3y ago
This looks cool and I could get over my worries about Electron as a terminal except for the fact that it requires that you install something on the remote machine to get any of the benefits. I really don't like that it tried to do that before I had done anything but add a connection (there was no warning or indication that something would be installed). Thankfully (?) FreeBSD is not supported so nothing was installed but I was still surprised that it even tried without some kind of prompting, ideally with "ask me each time" or "install automatically" options. The terminal I use can't go dropping software on boxes I connect to (literally hundreds), I guess I'll stick with iTerm 2.
- ytjohn 3y ago
  I liken this more to how vscode operates. I use that to develop remotely inside a vdi (or inside a local vm over ssh). It will install an instance of itself on the remote host and then it's like I'm operating "locally" out of that host. For work, I use one vm for all my development. For personal, I have a desktop computer I dedicate to development that I often access remotely via laptop/vscode. But I wouldn't use vscode to connect to all the random hosts I need to throughout, especially if it's going to drop software. Where I might consider a tool like is is if I connected to something along the lines of a jumpbox. Some primary host from which I launch most of my other work out of. Once it opens on that jumpbox, I could then ssh out from there. That would possibly make the session sidebar useless - unless I had a "jumpbox" per client/region/project.
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frognumber 3y ago
This looks nice, but I am very, very, very wary of adopting a tool like this without understanding the business model. There are two possible ways I've seen this go: 1) Build out a userbase. Once it's sufficient, monetize by screwing the userbase over in some way. 2) Take a bunch of VC money to build something awesome and open-source. Implode when there is no business model. I'm glad this is open-source -- that's prerequisite -- but half of open-source is about transparency. The web site should clearly explain who built this, why, and how they plan to pay the bills. This could be sleazy and evil or good. If it's good, explaining that generally provides business value, so most good players will do it proactively. A missing explanation is a yellow flag pointing towards "sleazy and evil." I understand this is version 0, so please take this as constructive feedback and not an attack. This is my perception as a potential customer, and I hope it provides some value.
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- api 3y ago
  My concern with all attempts these days to reinvent the terminal is that they will phone home. This is a security and privacy nightmare considering what terminals are used to do, especially for devops working on production. Any terminal app that has telemetry is a hard absolute no.
  - frognumber 3y ago
    I agree. Two points: 1) The telemetry here can be disabled, which is an upside, but it's default-on. 2) I'm not sure this will be an option forever. Tools like co-pilot MUST phone home, and WILL be increasingly critical to being competitive. Free market forces will likely eventually force universal telemetry (even if not phrased as such). With ML, we're heading back to the mainframe era, where a central computer center has petaflops of computing power and terabytes of models loaded into memory. I'm not quite sure the answer there, if any.
- sawka 3y ago
  founder/creator here. unfortunately this got posted without us being able to provide the proper HN background information, but i'll try to respond here. we are committed to open-source. we are committed to providing a free terminal (both free as in speech and free as in beer) to individual users. it doesn't cost us anything to have you run Wave locally, so we don't need to charge. plus if we did charge, open-source lets you fork it, remove the monetization code, and just run it anyway! but, yes, we do plan on making money at some point. we plan on building out (completely optional, opt-in) team and enterprise features, like collaboration, sharing workspaces/tabs, sharing playbooks, shared history, multi-machine sync, and AI features. these would be paid upgrades. for us there is a clear line -- if you need an account and it touches the cloud, it is a paid. if it runs locally on your machine, using your own resources, it is free. we plan to add this information to the project and the website!
Darmody 3y ago
It looks fancy but after using it for a while I can't really see what are the benefits of using it over something like tmux which is battle tested, fast, robust available everywhere, etc.
- actinium226 3y ago
  I haven't tried this, but I'm always frustrated that tmux doesn't have sane scroll and copy/paste behavior out of the box. I'm not even sure how to configure it properly to have sane behavior. If this could solve that by default, as well as making it easier to restore sessions I might be in.
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- behnamoh 3y ago
  While I use tmux and don't like this new Wave app, tmux is not entirely battle-tested. For example, displaying images in terminal is a problem with tmux.
- sawka 3y ago
  we don't have parity with tmux yet. in terms of scripting and screen splitting, tmux is better. but, we will get there for most of the features, and i hope we'll be able to deliver those features in a more user-friendly and accessible way to non-power users. by using web tech, we know it is (relatively) easy and possible. imo, building these types of features into your terminal make a lot more sense than having them run on every remote machine. ever run tmux inside of tmux?
inshadows 3y ago
[dead]
pastacacioepepe 3y ago
"Cross-platform" Doesn't support Windows...
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- sawka 3y ago
  not yet, but it will. using electron will let us get there quickly, especially if we base support on WSL. honestly it is more of a problem with packaging and testing at this point vs some underlying incompatibility. note that our windows port will be more like a replacement for PuTTY than a replacement for powershell (at least in the first version). so it will make it easier to log into and administer remote (linux) machines.
LectronPusher 3y ago
My first thought when seeing the screenshot was that it feels like it should just be a vscode extension.
jay-barronville 3y ago
I haven’t tried this yet (so please take my commentary with a grain of salt), but my initial thoughts are: (1) it looks interesting, (2) it looks overwhelming (there’s a lot going on in those screenshots), and (3) it’s likely slow (I might be completely wrong). To elaborate a bit… 1. I love good design work and well-designed (UI-wise) software, and it certainly looks like the creators of Wave Terminal have made that a priority. 2. UX-wise, there’s just too much going on. As someone who lives in my terminal (with the exception of browsing the web, I do virtually everything in my terminal), it’s the single most critical piece of software on my computer and it can never get in my way. I used the same terminal for many years and only switched to kitty [0] a couple years ago after testing it for months. In all of those years, every single terminal I tested managed to get in my way. Somehow, kitty manages to be packed full of features without ever—not even once—getting in my way, being slow, or freezing up on me. 3. Generally speaking, I think building on open web standards is a great thing and a plus. Unfortunately though, even in 2023, my experience has been that it’s really hard to build performant software meant to be run on native platforms using web technologies; the few who get this right—e.g., Figma—are anomalies and they generally invest an enormous amount of time and engineering capital into squeezing out as much performance as possible. As I explained in #2, for something as critical as my terminal, not being performant is simply not an option, so as much as I love the idea of building on open web standards, it actually scares me for software like this. That said, I’m obviously judging before trying here, so I’ll make some time to test Wave Terminal. [0]: https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty
- behnamoh 3y ago
  Tried Kitty for a few months. Didn't like the developer's attitude when people raised concerns and asked for "tabs". He said "just go use tmux on top of Kitty." I use tmux sometimes, but the idea that you have to glue together several pieces of software (each of which can break at any point) just to get basic functionality (like tabs that some people want) is insane. I stopped using Kitty and switched over to iTerm2 and have been happy ever since. Most importantly, it allows me to set a custom keyboard shortcut to summon my terminal any time on macOS.
  - 3y ago
lijok 3y ago
Is anyone actually looking to use one of these "style over substance" terminals? Sure they look pretty at first glance, but instill significantly more cognitive load on the reader to understand what information it's trying to present. If people are really interested in using terminals like this, is there a business case to be made for incredibly visually-stylish programming languages as well?
- behnamoh 3y ago
  I don't know. I feel like __some__ additional features in terminal would be nice. Like having the new vscode sticky scroll, incorporating a file manager like ranger into common terminals, being able to display long (CURL) commands in a more structured way (maybe a hierarchical tree that you can traverse), etc. I use Vim on Fish shell but it'd be nice to have Vim baked right in the terminal as well.
- sawka 3y ago
  We aren't just doing style (although that's the headline feature). There are real underlying improvements as well by moving terminal/shell state local. Wave also gives universal history, persistent/resumable sessions, and metadata about commands (exit code, duration, cwd, environment, etc.). Lots more is possible (and will be shipped) in the future.
krzyk 3y ago
Reading the page and encountering "web standards" got me thinking (red flag #1), why would I care for web standards in a terminal? Another red flag is bashing vim. Final - looking at the code and seeing "electron".
- tssva 3y ago
  "Another red flag is bashing vim." The website in context of discussing their inline editor says, "Ditch vim for quick updates.". You seem to have a very low threshold for what is considered bashing.
  - block_dagger 3y ago
    Agree, but I think the usage of “ditch” is a bit snarky.
    - orlp 3y ago
      "Ditch Vim" is definitely weird wording for people (like myself) that consider Vin great. I can understand it for those who don't grok it though, then it's rather frustrating.
  - xuhu 3y ago
    I've never seen 'ditch' being used in a flattering context.
  - codetrotter 3y ago
    I use vim and like vim. I think that sentence is not aimed at us, and you have to read the whole paragraph as one. I use vim keybindings in the JetBrains IDEs I use. And that’s because I came from vim. For me vim is the natural choice. And I use my JetBrain IDEs most of the time because of the added features. But for people who don’t like vim particularly much but who only use vim because they need “something” for small edits, I can see that it would be attractive to them to have a small VSCode-like editor for quick edits, when they normally use VSCode as their IDE. That’s the context you need to see it from, I think. For those people, it’d be an advantage to ditch vim, as they never particularly liked vim in the first place.
lxe 3y ago
Why do I need to agree to the terms of service to run a terminal program?
- wredue 3y ago
  This is not the terminal for me, but it looks like a pretty typical “as is, no warranty, no liability, telemetry is collected” TOS. Even if I was on the market for a slow, space wasting terminal, it appears venture backed, so enshitification is guaranteed making this terminal unusable from the onset.
  - sawka 3y ago
    I understand your concerns, but in this case venture backed means we have the resources to put full-time resources on it and push it forward quickly (as opposed to just being an interesting side project). We need an open source modern terminal alternative, otherwise this market will be taken over by closed source alternatives.
    - wredue 3y ago
      There’s lots of not venture backed open source terminals right now and even more being worked on. Nobody who’s been paying any attention to the strong correlation of venture to enshittification is going to give this a second look.
      - wredue 3y ago
        Difficult to find due to the keywords involved. In point form: -rcan used to generally lean slightly left, and banned terrible sources, bigotry as well as outright fake news -metacanada didn’t like that white nationalism wasn’t allowed, and that far right “sources” weren’t allowed -metacanadians get a couple people on the mod team who pretended for years to being more centrist/slightly left -metacanadians began whining for MONTHS that the right wing had no representation on the mod team (except the couple that were there pretending to be reasonable) -/r/Canada sleuths demonstrate that multiple mods on the team were in fact alts of metacanadians already, and that further implementing metacanadians mods would lead to a takeover -/r/Canada mods disagreed, and installed a couple more /r/metacanada mods -/r/metacanada now has the majority moderator total and begins a full takeover by actively harming the moderation and “showing the moderation is ineffective” which can lead to Reddit admins “stealing” a sub from you (and in this case did) -/r/Canada is now essentially just an alt-right propaganda outlet that actively allows bigotry, and, in true conservative fashion, instantly bans criticism of the sub and mods.
phplovesong 3y ago
Electron…
platz 3y ago
Was using vim for quick edits on files instead of vscode a significant pain point?
- amadeuspagel 3y ago
  Yes, for me an absolute killer feature. If a terminal had only that feature I'd switch to it, but Wave looks a bit too complex for me, since I mostly use VS code anyway. (I use micro, rather then vim, which is still not as good as VS code's editor, and also not fully consistent with it.)
getoffmyyawn 3y ago
I don't know who this tool is for but it is certainly not designed for me. Unrelated but I recently learned the magic of vim scp://1.2.3.4/file_to_edit
tonnydourado 3y ago
Browser based terminals look like one of those bad ideas that people just refuse to give up on. Like singletons and graphical imperative programming.
- sawka 3y ago
  Certainly not for everybody, but using web tech we can move faster, improve accessibility, and create a consistent cross-platform app much faster than with native UI. It also makes it much more accessible for plugins (in the future), and to receive open-source contributions.
juunpp 3y ago
A terminal that streams telemetry. Just what we needed. Get this BS out of here.
rsanek 3y ago
Looks very cool. Happy to see some innovation in a space where I feel some people are oddly resistant to change (as we see in a few cases in this thread). The concept of workspaces makes alot of sense to me, and I love the UI for "you're connected to [x], do you want to change it?" Not sure if this is just my computer but the `imageview` preview feature seems to have pretty high latency. Looking at over a second to preview a larger jpeg (12MB), which opens <300ms in Mac's Preview or Chrome. This issue is also there if I switch between workspaces (though it's not as bad as on first load).
veidr 3y ago
This isn't really a terminal app at this point — it's more like a dedicated GUI for bash. While you can launch zsh from bash, then this app sees it as an infinitely-running subprocess of one command, which basically breaks this app's central feature (treating each command as its own entity). You can't use the app normally anymore, as now you are typing in the embedded subcommand rectangle and not the main CLI. Sort of interesting, but not if you don't use bash (which I haven't for years, even on Linux, and almost no Mac user does either since Apple ditched it for zsh).

Waveterm

144 points by indigodaddy 3y ago

mariansam 3y ago

"Edit [...] with [...] VSCode. Ditch vim". Man, ditch VSCode, I want my vim

akdor1154 3y ago
And with this, you can have your vim while still loading a gig and a half of your ram down with electron!
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devaiops9001 3y ago

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smegsicle 3y ago

so wave like google wave?

markstos 3y ago
If you are referring to how long Google Wave survived, then quite possibly.

bitwize 3y ago

Sigh. Electron. Even Warp.dev had the nous to implement their mOdErN terminal in Rust.

Y_Y 3y ago
hacker nous
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sph 3y ago

An Electron terminal with a EULA backed by two venture capitals. What's the world coming to? I'd rather keep something as crucial as a terminal emulator open-source, and with a latency within the hundreds of milliseconds. For the fancy remoting capabilities there's Emacs.

IshKebab 3y ago
I use VSCode's integrated terminal all the time and its performance and latency is indistinguishable from Gnome Terminal. This appears to be open source. But I don't know how you could make a viable business out of this. I mean it looks nice, but nice enough to pay for? I doubt it. And it's free... What's their business plan?
- zokier 3y ago
  It's buried in the FAQ: > In the future we may launch cloud features to support terminal sharing, shared workspaces, shared playbooks, and terminal backup/sync. Presumably these cloud features will come with a subscription. But yeah, the VC backing combined with no solid business model makes me wary. It seems unlikely that the community will be super excited to start building integrations and extensions here to benefit some SV bros.
  - hahn-kev 3y ago
    "Shared playbooks" so like scripts? Isn't that just scripts?
    - markstos 3y ago
      Maybe. Playbook is also the precise word Ansible uses to describe automating tasks across multiple servers in their particular way. So it could be a hint about Ansible-like features.
- bitwize 3y ago
  > What's their business plan? Mumble wango cloud mumble collaboration features... But basically, to burn through millions in VC money I think.

IshKebab 3y ago

This looks nice! Editing in a proper editor is for sure nicer than Vim - does that work even over SSH without having to install anything? Proper history search also sounds nice. I think I will probably stick to VSCode's integrated terminal tbh because it's well integrated. But if I was doing system admin rather than programming this looks awesome. Don't listen to the predictable HN nonsense. Electron is plenty fast enough for this. Vim sucks. Modern tooling is good.

ckolkey 3y ago
Meh, I'll stick with vim. Thanks for the advice though.
wiseowise 3y ago
> Vim sucks. Why?
- IshKebab 3y ago
  Two main reasons: 1. It has a ridiculous learning curve to get to the same editing proficiency as just having multiple cursors. All Vim users imagine themselves to be editing text at the speed of light while users of "lesser" editors struggle with scalar editing. I have seen zero evidence of that. Anyone of my colleagues that use Vim struggle to do basic tasks because remembering the gazillions of mnemonics is too onerous. Meanwhile I can do anything I want very quickly in VSCode, and with immediate feedback! 2. It infests Unix by being the default editor in many situations (Git commit editing is probably the worst offender). Fine if you want to use your weird editor, but it should 100% not be the default editor EVER. There's a reason exiting Vim is a meme.
  - jzb 3y ago
    Vim isn’t for you, and that’s fine. Statements like “all Vim users…” aren’t really a great contribution to the discussion. I’ve used Vim for 20+ years. I like it, you don’t have to. I don’t try to shove it down anyone’s throat - nor do I try to tell you why your favorite tool sucks. Because it probably doesn’t suck - for you. Tell me what you like or what doesn’t work for you and leave the middle school attitude where it belongs.

k4runa 3y ago

Something about this design make it seem more like a chat interface to the terminal, and after using ChatGPT the idea of chatting to a raw computer terminal instead of one way commands seems so obvious... the future interface for everything looks more and more like it's just going to be chat based, or like a Jupyter notebook, and that seems amazing to me... because it's getting us ready for voice-based computing like Star Trek. I wish one day I can just turn on my computer and it does nothing but chat, no distracting apps or web browsers, just a minimalist chat interface.

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FridgeSeal 3y ago
> voice-based computing like Star Trek. It sure if you’re remembering most of Star Trek very well, the crew evidently, and demonstrably does more work on their consoles, which have actual UI’s. Can you imagine trying to navigate to a sub directory and run a binary but your LLM-assistant has decided that it thinks you want to search for the file name on the web? And you can’t just do it yourself, because they’ve taken away the actual tools from you. I think I’d actually go and become a goat-farmer at that point.
amadeuspagel 3y ago
I found the prompt at the bottom irritating, and I still find it irritating for ChatGPT. But chat apps are probably the apps that normal people spend most of their time in, so for them it's intuitive.

eternityforest 3y ago

It looks really nice! Ubuntu has made me slightly spoiled and less willing to try anything that's not packaged in the core repos, but maybe I'll make an exception. VS Code's integrated terminal is pretty great though.

Levitating 3y ago
Back when I used a debian based distribution I made use of https://bedrocklinux.org/ https://bedrocklinux.org/ to make use of the AUR. It's not for everyone though.
- eternityforest 3y ago
  Wow, that is super clever and really cool! I can't imagine there not being some sort of Arch/Gentoo/LFS style Random Tech Trouble with that much custom craziness, but it does look kind of fun
  - Levitating 3y ago
    It certainly comes with some craziness. But most of it is documented[1]! For instance using BTRFS and GRUB with Bedrock currently causes issues. But when I turned my Linux Mint installation into Bedrock Linux I encountered no weird things. Eventually I starting booting into Arch instead of Linux Mint, but I can still boot Linux Mint if I want and I have access to all of its applications. It helps that the developer is very active, and often online on IRC for a chat. One functionality I still hope to see is the ability to use desktop environments across strata. Maybe in the next release. [1]: https://bedrocklinux.org/0.7/feature-compatibility.html https://bedrocklinux.org/0.7/feature-compatibility.html

rasse 3y ago

Neat, you can setup SSH connections as native terminal sessions. When you type in your server info and click connect, this happens: prompt> connecting to user@host... prompt> error connecting to remote: mshell client not found prompt> trying auto-install prompt> installing mshell v0.3.0 to user@host... Install something on a server without even asking? Also, what is "mshell client" or "mshell v0.3.0"?

throwaway77384 3y ago
That is my main issue as well. What is mshell? Why do I have to install it on my remote? Surely a dependency like that should be pointed out front and centre...
junon 3y ago
Not to shill, but WezTerm can also do this and isn't built on web stacks, if anyone is looking for something similar.
- aorth 3y ago
  And not backed by venture capital.
- nxpnsv 3y ago
  Wezterm rules…
- linsomniac 3y ago
  The wezterm built-in mosh+tmux I use all.the.time and it works great. Working from my personal macbook I have a wezterm window running on my work Linux machine with multiple screens and windows and having first-class multiple window support in the terminal has been nice.
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rogual 3y ago

First time I saw an idea like this was with termkit [1], which I thought was great and was sad to see it didn't get continued development. I really feel like we overlook the ways in which we limit ourselves by having our CLI interfaces be tied to a thing that emulates a terminal from the 80s. The composability, scriptability, history, etc. of CLIs is great, but why should that preclude us from being able to quickly show a PNG or graph a function? Maybe it's an idea whose time has come. [1] https://github.com/unconed/TermKit https://github.com/unconed/TermKit

sime2009 3y ago
TermKit was one of the inspirations for Extraterm ( https://extraterm.org/ https://extraterm.org/ ). It separates command output, allows for reuse of previous output, as well mixing content types. The terminal VSCode has been picking up on these kinds of features lately. Now they can even "sticky" the previous command line at the top of the window when scrolling through long output. It has taken a long time, but these ideas are slowing spreading around.
FridgeSeal 3y ago
Terminal interfaces are devs due for an upgrade, but this doesn’t feel like a genuine solution to that, this feels like just try to pollute CLI land with the web-tech everyone already complains about.
enriquto 3y ago
> we limit ourselves by having our CLI interfaces be tied to a thing that emulates a terminal from the 80s > why should that preclude us from being able to quickly show a PNG or graph a function? I'm confused by this comment. The quintessential "terminal from the eighties" is xterm [0], that exists today and supports all kind of graphics protocols, like sixel [1]. I use it everyday, and it is very handy to graph functions inline (via gnuplot) and to quickly show png files. If anything, it is more "modern" terminals that lack these basic functionalities. Bu this is hardly a problem of being stuck with old technology. It is exactly the opposite! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xterm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xterm [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixel

JimDabell 3y ago

Looking at the screenshots, I find it really difficult to parse. Maybe if they simplified the prompt a bit it would be easier, but my focus is bouncing all around the screenshots trying to find the prompt. You’re typing in the centre of the screen not the left because of all that junk? What is the point in having status in the prompt if you control the window chrome and can put that status in a more convenient place? It’s also kinda weird how they try to add styling everywhere possible… except remove the styling from the output of ls so you can’t distinguish between file vs directory, executable vs non-executable, symlink vs regular file, etc. I really don’t understand what they are getting at with the copy either: > The modern terminal that keeps your flow in line > Keep development moving forward without the copy, pasting, saving, and exporting headache. What copy, pasting, saving, and exporting headache are they talking about?

TobyTheDog123 3y ago
I thought it was just the marketing trying to show off too many features at once, and I'd really like a more workspace-centric approach to terminals, so I gave it a download -- unfortunately the actual UI is worse than the screenshots they show. - Sidebar that is either HUGE (and branded) or nonexistent (I'd like to see something like Discord's approach here) - Only UI settings are a font size selector - The input and cwd are on different lines for some reason (though it shows huge helper text inline with the input) - Weird borders and shadows on elements that are super jarring.

FridgeSeal 3y ago

But like…why? At the risk of being “HN talks about rsync on the Dropbox thread” what’s this offering that can’t already do, for free, without a EULA, and inevitable VC-enshittification risk? > ditch vim for quick updates Bruh, have you seen the average vim user? They’re about the fastest people on a computer I’ve seen in my life. This is not exactly a convincing argument. > Render code, images, markdown, and CSV files without ever leaving the terminal. So like, bat/cat/any number of other tools that already exist, and dont require me to run a whole web-browser to operate? I just, don’t get the appeal, and I’m so curious as who is the target market for this? Are there armies of devs out there who are like “please, I wish my terminal was actually a web browser with a EULA, pls build a product for me!”??

elcomet 3y ago
> They’re about the fastest people on a computer I’ve seen in my life. I've seen plenty of people using vim that seemed fast (as in plenty of keys pressed, screens changed, etc), and thought they were fast but actually were pretty slow compared to some vs code users. I don't think the app makes a huge difference, rather the mentality to improve your workflow and be more efficient.
- lijok 3y ago
  > I've seen plenty of people using vim that seemed fast (as in plenty of keys pressed, screens changed, etc), and thought they were fast but actually were pretty slow compared to some vs code users. Once or twice a year I'll see a PR with "<<<<<<< HEAD ... ====== ... >>>>>>> some-branch" in the code merged in (an unresolved merge conflict). Each and every single time, it's a vi or vim user.
tapanih 3y ago
It feels like it's for developers using VSCode, who are not comfortable with a terminal. It is likely meant to be easy-to-use with a mouse-friendly user interface and lots of built-in functionalities.
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b20000 3y ago

i thought this was about PPG synths but no

sgt 3y ago

It's Electron/TS based. I seriously doubt I can get used to using an Electron based beast for something as critical as a terminal. This is the one power user app where speed is factually of utmost urgency, and latency is non negotiable. I also don't like it using tons of memory. While this may be possible with Electron from what I have heard, I have yet to have seen it. So generally I stay away.

wg0 3y ago
Actually - VSCode comes with a built-in Terminal that's also built using Electron and TS. Never had any issues with it while using it as built-in Terminal from time to time.
- franga2000 3y ago
  The VSCode terminal is the first time I've felt input lag in a terminal emulator before. When a program shits out thousands of lines of text (like catting a long log file), it takes forever to catch up compared to any other terminal (except the JetBrains builtin terminal, which is almost as slow but still noticeably faster).
  - sgt 3y ago
    In fact, some people still swear by xterm or rxtv alone due to sheer speed. I use Terminal.app on Mac which is also very fast but not xterm/rxvt fast.
hnlmorg 3y ago
I’m not the biggest fan of electron generally speaking but I don’t agree with your argument that Electron is too slow to work as a terminal emulator. Yes speed matters, but not nearly as much as you claim. Commands are run as separate processes so as long as the terminal reads from its PTY fast enough not to block those processes, which in all bar a very few edge cases it will be, you’re not going to experience any difference in performance. Besides, if you’re concerned about millisecond latency, then the issue you actually have is with multimedia content being rendered in the terminal rather than Electon itself. So no terminal emulator of this generation is going to meet your needs irrespective of what technologies it’s built from. Edit: downvoted for stating a fact. Maybe I should have also stated that I’ve also been working on this exact problem. In fact I’ve already got a shell that provides the CLI parts and been playing around with different technologies to handle the multimedia parts of the terminal emulation. It’s a harder problem to solve than people hand wave away when they complain about electron (hence why I only have a shell available for public use at this stage).

Fischgericht 3y ago

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a1o 3y ago

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joshstrange 3y ago

This looks cool and I could get over my worries about Electron as a terminal except for the fact that it requires that you install something on the remote machine to get any of the benefits. I really don't like that it tried to do that before I had done anything but add a connection (there was no warning or indication that something would be installed). Thankfully (?) FreeBSD is not supported so nothing was installed but I was still surprised that it even tried without some kind of prompting, ideally with "ask me each time" or "install automatically" options. The terminal I use can't go dropping software on boxes I connect to (literally hundreds), I guess I'll stick with iTerm 2.

ytjohn 3y ago
I liken this more to how vscode operates. I use that to develop remotely inside a vdi (or inside a local vm over ssh). It will install an instance of itself on the remote host and then it's like I'm operating "locally" out of that host. For work, I use one vm for all my development. For personal, I have a desktop computer I dedicate to development that I often access remotely via laptop/vscode. But I wouldn't use vscode to connect to all the random hosts I need to throughout, especially if it's going to drop software. Where I might consider a tool like is is if I connected to something along the lines of a jumpbox. Some primary host from which I launch most of my other work out of. Once it opens on that jumpbox, I could then ssh out from there. That would possibly make the session sidebar useless - unless I had a "jumpbox" per client/region/project.
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frognumber 3y ago

This looks nice, but I am very, very, very wary of adopting a tool like this without understanding the business model. There are two possible ways I've seen this go: 1) Build out a userbase. Once it's sufficient, monetize by screwing the userbase over in some way. 2) Take a bunch of VC money to build something awesome and open-source. Implode when there is no business model. I'm glad this is open-source -- that's prerequisite -- but half of open-source is about transparency. The web site should clearly explain who built this, why, and how they plan to pay the bills. This could be sleazy and evil or good. If it's good, explaining that generally provides business value, so most good players will do it proactively. A missing explanation is a yellow flag pointing towards "sleazy and evil." I understand this is version 0, so please take this as constructive feedback and not an attack. This is my perception as a potential customer, and I hope it provides some value.

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api 3y ago
My concern with all attempts these days to reinvent the terminal is that they will phone home. This is a security and privacy nightmare considering what terminals are used to do, especially for devops working on production. Any terminal app that has telemetry is a hard absolute no.
- frognumber 3y ago
  I agree. Two points: 1) The telemetry here can be disabled, which is an upside, but it's default-on. 2) I'm not sure this will be an option forever. Tools like co-pilot MUST phone home, and WILL be increasingly critical to being competitive. Free market forces will likely eventually force universal telemetry (even if not phrased as such). With ML, we're heading back to the mainframe era, where a central computer center has petaflops of computing power and terabytes of models loaded into memory. I'm not quite sure the answer there, if any.
sawka 3y ago
founder/creator here. unfortunately this got posted without us being able to provide the proper HN background information, but i'll try to respond here. we are committed to open-source. we are committed to providing a free terminal (both free as in speech and free as in beer) to individual users. it doesn't cost us anything to have you run Wave locally, so we don't need to charge. plus if we did charge, open-source lets you fork it, remove the monetization code, and just run it anyway! but, yes, we do plan on making money at some point. we plan on building out (completely optional, opt-in) team and enterprise features, like collaboration, sharing workspaces/tabs, sharing playbooks, shared history, multi-machine sync, and AI features. these would be paid upgrades. for us there is a clear line -- if you need an account and it touches the cloud, it is a paid. if it runs locally on your machine, using your own resources, it is free. we plan to add this information to the project and the website!

Darmody 3y ago

It looks fancy but after using it for a while I can't really see what are the benefits of using it over something like tmux which is battle tested, fast, robust available everywhere, etc.

actinium226 3y ago
I haven't tried this, but I'm always frustrated that tmux doesn't have sane scroll and copy/paste behavior out of the box. I'm not even sure how to configure it properly to have sane behavior. If this could solve that by default, as well as making it easier to restore sessions I might be in.
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behnamoh 3y ago
While I use tmux and don't like this new Wave app, tmux is not entirely battle-tested. For example, displaying images in terminal is a problem with tmux.
sawka 3y ago
we don't have parity with tmux yet. in terms of scripting and screen splitting, tmux is better. but, we will get there for most of the features, and i hope we'll be able to deliver those features in a more user-friendly and accessible way to non-power users. by using web tech, we know it is (relatively) easy and possible. imo, building these types of features into your terminal make a lot more sense than having them run on every remote machine. ever run tmux inside of tmux?

inshadows 3y ago

[dead]

pastacacioepepe 3y ago

"Cross-platform" Doesn't support Windows...

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sawka 3y ago
not yet, but it will. using electron will let us get there quickly, especially if we base support on WSL. honestly it is more of a problem with packaging and testing at this point vs some underlying incompatibility. note that our windows port will be more like a replacement for PuTTY than a replacement for powershell (at least in the first version). so it will make it easier to log into and administer remote (linux) machines.

LectronPusher 3y ago

My first thought when seeing the screenshot was that it feels like it should just be a vscode extension.

jay-barronville 3y ago

I haven’t tried this yet (so please take my commentary with a grain of salt), but my initial thoughts are: (1) it looks interesting, (2) it looks overwhelming (there’s a lot going on in those screenshots), and (3) it’s likely slow (I might be completely wrong). To elaborate a bit… 1. I love good design work and well-designed (UI-wise) software, and it certainly looks like the creators of Wave Terminal have made that a priority. 2. UX-wise, there’s just too much going on. As someone who lives in my terminal (with the exception of browsing the web, I do virtually everything in my terminal), it’s the single most critical piece of software on my computer and it can never get in my way. I used the same terminal for many years and only switched to kitty [0] a couple years ago after testing it for months. In all of those years, every single terminal I tested managed to get in my way. Somehow, kitty manages to be packed full of features without ever—not even once—getting in my way, being slow, or freezing up on me. 3. Generally speaking, I think building on open web standards is a great thing and a plus. Unfortunately though, even in 2023, my experience has been that it’s really hard to build performant software meant to be run on native platforms using web technologies; the few who get this right—e.g., Figma—are anomalies and they generally invest an enormous amount of time and engineering capital into squeezing out as much performance as possible. As I explained in #2, for something as critical as my terminal, not being performant is simply not an option, so as much as I love the idea of building on open web standards, it actually scares me for software like this. That said, I’m obviously judging before trying here, so I’ll make some time to test Wave Terminal. [0]: https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty

behnamoh 3y ago
Tried Kitty for a few months. Didn't like the developer's attitude when people raised concerns and asked for "tabs". He said "just go use tmux on top of Kitty." I use tmux sometimes, but the idea that you have to glue together several pieces of software (each of which can break at any point) just to get basic functionality (like tabs that some people want) is insane. I stopped using Kitty and switched over to iTerm2 and have been happy ever since. Most importantly, it allows me to set a custom keyboard shortcut to summon my terminal any time on macOS.
- 3y ago

lijok 3y ago

Is anyone actually looking to use one of these "style over substance" terminals? Sure they look pretty at first glance, but instill significantly more cognitive load on the reader to understand what information it's trying to present. If people are really interested in using terminals like this, is there a business case to be made for incredibly visually-stylish programming languages as well?

behnamoh 3y ago
I don't know. I feel like __some__ additional features in terminal would be nice. Like having the new vscode sticky scroll, incorporating a file manager like ranger into common terminals, being able to display long (CURL) commands in a more structured way (maybe a hierarchical tree that you can traverse), etc. I use Vim on Fish shell but it'd be nice to have Vim baked right in the terminal as well.
sawka 3y ago
We aren't just doing style (although that's the headline feature). There are real underlying improvements as well by moving terminal/shell state local. Wave also gives universal history, persistent/resumable sessions, and metadata about commands (exit code, duration, cwd, environment, etc.). Lots more is possible (and will be shipped) in the future.

krzyk 3y ago

Reading the page and encountering "web standards" got me thinking (red flag #1), why would I care for web standards in a terminal? Another red flag is bashing vim. Final - looking at the code and seeing "electron".

tssva 3y ago
"Another red flag is bashing vim." The website in context of discussing their inline editor says, "Ditch vim for quick updates.". You seem to have a very low threshold for what is considered bashing.
- block_dagger 3y ago
  Agree, but I think the usage of “ditch” is a bit snarky.
  - orlp 3y ago
    "Ditch Vim" is definitely weird wording for people (like myself) that consider Vin great. I can understand it for those who don't grok it though, then it's rather frustrating.
- xuhu 3y ago
  I've never seen 'ditch' being used in a flattering context.
- codetrotter 3y ago
  I use vim and like vim. I think that sentence is not aimed at us, and you have to read the whole paragraph as one. I use vim keybindings in the JetBrains IDEs I use. And that’s because I came from vim. For me vim is the natural choice. And I use my JetBrain IDEs most of the time because of the added features. But for people who don’t like vim particularly much but who only use vim because they need “something” for small edits, I can see that it would be attractive to them to have a small VSCode-like editor for quick edits, when they normally use VSCode as their IDE. That’s the context you need to see it from, I think. For those people, it’d be an advantage to ditch vim, as they never particularly liked vim in the first place.

lxe 3y ago

Why do I need to agree to the terms of service to run a terminal program?

wredue 3y ago
This is not the terminal for me, but it looks like a pretty typical “as is, no warranty, no liability, telemetry is collected” TOS. Even if I was on the market for a slow, space wasting terminal, it appears venture backed, so enshitification is guaranteed making this terminal unusable from the onset.
- sawka 3y ago
  I understand your concerns, but in this case venture backed means we have the resources to put full-time resources on it and push it forward quickly (as opposed to just being an interesting side project). We need an open source modern terminal alternative, otherwise this market will be taken over by closed source alternatives.
  - wredue 3y ago
    There’s lots of not venture backed open source terminals right now and even more being worked on. Nobody who’s been paying any attention to the strong correlation of venture to enshittification is going to give this a second look.
    - wredue 3y ago
      Difficult to find due to the keywords involved. In point form: -rcan used to generally lean slightly left, and banned terrible sources, bigotry as well as outright fake news -metacanada didn’t like that white nationalism wasn’t allowed, and that far right “sources” weren’t allowed -metacanadians get a couple people on the mod team who pretended for years to being more centrist/slightly left -metacanadians began whining for MONTHS that the right wing had no representation on the mod team (except the couple that were there pretending to be reasonable) -/r/Canada sleuths demonstrate that multiple mods on the team were in fact alts of metacanadians already, and that further implementing metacanadians mods would lead to a takeover -/r/Canada mods disagreed, and installed a couple more /r/metacanada mods -/r/metacanada now has the majority moderator total and begins a full takeover by actively harming the moderation and “showing the moderation is ineffective” which can lead to Reddit admins “stealing” a sub from you (and in this case did) -/r/Canada is now essentially just an alt-right propaganda outlet that actively allows bigotry, and, in true conservative fashion, instantly bans criticism of the sub and mods.

phplovesong 3y ago

Electron…

platz 3y ago

Was using vim for quick edits on files instead of vscode a significant pain point?

amadeuspagel 3y ago
Yes, for me an absolute killer feature. If a terminal had only that feature I'd switch to it, but Wave looks a bit too complex for me, since I mostly use VS code anyway. (I use micro, rather then vim, which is still not as good as VS code's editor, and also not fully consistent with it.)

getoffmyyawn 3y ago

I don't know who this tool is for but it is certainly not designed for me. Unrelated but I recently learned the magic of vim scp://1.2.3.4/file_to_edit

tonnydourado 3y ago

Browser based terminals look like one of those bad ideas that people just refuse to give up on. Like singletons and graphical imperative programming.

sawka 3y ago
Certainly not for everybody, but using web tech we can move faster, improve accessibility, and create a consistent cross-platform app much faster than with native UI. It also makes it much more accessible for plugins (in the future), and to receive open-source contributions.

juunpp 3y ago

A terminal that streams telemetry. Just what we needed. Get this BS out of here.

rsanek 3y ago

Looks very cool. Happy to see some innovation in a space where I feel some people are oddly resistant to change (as we see in a few cases in this thread). The concept of workspaces makes alot of sense to me, and I love the UI for "you're connected to [x], do you want to change it?" Not sure if this is just my computer but the `imageview` preview feature seems to have pretty high latency. Looking at over a second to preview a larger jpeg (12MB), which opens <300ms in Mac's Preview or Chrome. This issue is also there if I switch between workspaces (though it's not as bad as on first load).

veidr 3y ago

This isn't really a terminal app at this point — it's more like a dedicated GUI for bash. While you can launch zsh from bash, then this app sees it as an infinitely-running subprocess of one command, which basically breaks this app's central feature (treating each command as its own entity). You can't use the app normally anymore, as now you are typing in the embedded subcommand rectangle and not the main CLI. Sort of interesting, but not if you don't use bash (which I haven't for years, even on Linux, and almost no Mac user does either since Apple ditched it for zsh).