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Proving that all their jobs can now be outsourced to other countries for half the price. Thanks a lot.

by ab8 3y ago

zlg_codes 3y ago
Burning fossil fuels for X*Y travel to Z place to do the same job they could do at home, is better? If they can do it cheaper elsewhere in the world then they clearly are not focusing on the premium values of more expensive workers. Naturally, having native speakers with good education should be seen as better than importing. If importing is ever actually better, then one has to question the value of the education being given to the premium workers.
diob 3y ago
This is a joke right? Most remote companies still have timezone restrictions, and the closest places to outsource from America in terms of timezone generally have great worker protections (aka, hard to fire). For the most part, you'll find American companies that are remote are simply hiring from all over America, not the world.
- api 3y ago
  Also really good developers overseas are not that much cheaper, especially when you add the cost of hiring and managing that far away.
  - voisin 3y ago
    This is just not remotely true. I am not sure what you are referring to but even between the US and Canada it is completely incorrect, let alone Eastern Europe and the US. What are you possibly talking about?
  - geodel 3y ago
    The operating phrase is really good developers. Because most companies are just churning out basic CRUD micro services. Infact companies emphasis on standardized frameworks is part of this trend. It makes rather easy to replace one dev with another. Companies can and are using vast quantities of developers at far away locations.
    - api 3y ago
      Those jobs are most likely to be replaced by AI or by skilled developers using AI as a force multiplier. I already know developers using AI successfully to automate boilerplate and routine code generation, leaving them more free to spend time on the hard stuff. AI is cheaper than outsourced labor.
- jmye 3y ago
  Most remote companies don’t need time zone restrictions, and many Indian contractors are already working weird schedules to at least partially align with US time zones. I don’t expect that every company can outsource every WFH job, but the idea that they can’t because it might make a conference call hard is, frankly, rank nonsense.
- andrei_says_ 3y ago
  On paper, sure. I have fired offshore teams and hired US ones because I prefer people who think, care, look at the big picture, share their experience, and write quality working software, once. Offshore software felt like someone building a car by spotwelding everything together for record times.
hotpotamus 3y ago
Before the pandemic, I was told by private equity people that if a job can be done from home, it can be done from India. And the job I had back then is now more or less done from India.
- CapitalistCartr 3y ago
  The job absolutely can be done from India. The location isn't the question; the right person is, and the sort of people who say that are the sort who suck at hiring, and don't care. "Hire cheap labor."
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- pokepim 3y ago
  [dead]
- PhoenixReborn 3y ago
  Thanks to an increasing supply of jobs in India, salaries have been rising at the top end of the market. In another 5-10 years, it won't be much cheaper to hire in India as compared to the US.
- kibwen 3y ago
  If they could, private equity people would reduce you and your family to chattel slavery and Fargo you into a woodchipper when your wasted body finally gives out. They're the problem, not remote work.
  - xkekjrktllss 3y ago
    Private equity is an inevitability of a financialised capitalist economy, so what are you suggesting? Some sort of vigilante justice?
    - kibwen 3y ago
      There are innumerable ways to avert the worst iniquities of private equity without going Full Communist Revolution. Of course, the longer that plutocrats try to wring the system dry, the more likely the latter is to happen, but I suppose it would be incoherent of me to expect private equity to understand the concept of thinking in the long-term.
koolba 3y ago
Or that they just weren’t doing that much work in the office either.
ddmichael 3y ago
Recruiting is hard. Global recruiting is really hard.
mynameishere 3y ago
As others mention, there are a range of reasons why Joe Coder keeps his job. Realistically, one of those reasons (like it or not) is that management can see him every day and can go to his cube for face-to-face meetings. They never could do that with Jorge Coder (who is in the same timezone by the way). Well, now it doesn't matter.
zer00eyz 3y ago
I have been WFH for over a decade now. Before that I survived the first dot com bubble, 2008 housing crisis. I have been through rounds of layoffs and all sorts of outsourcing projects. At some point it all boils down to numbers. Why hire a Bay Area resource when a Kansas one is cheaper? Why hire a Kansas one when someone globally is cheaper? I think that the only reason we haven't seen deeper cuts and more tech layoffs and outsourcing is that everyone is skittish about sending work to Eastern Europe. With that venue cut off the remaining tech markets remain higher priced and look a lot less appealing. There are reasons to be in an office sometimes. Planing, team building, those exchanges around the coffee pot. The random engineer who prarridogs and spouts an answer to the problem you're discussing with someone else. Pick your poison, a week every month, a month every quarter get that team building and face time in, pick up the value it has and then go back to WFH and zero commute... The answer isn't no office its "hot desk when it matters"!

Proving that all their jobs can now be outsourced to other countries for half the price. Thanks a lot.

by ab8 3y ago

Proving that all their jobs can now be outsourced to other countries for half the price. Thanks a lot.

Burning fossil fuels for X*Y travel to Z place to do the same job they could do at home, is better? If they can do it cheaper elsewhere in the world then they clearly are not focusing on the premium values of more expensive workers. Naturally, having native speakers with good education should be seen as better than importing. If importing is ever actually better, then one has to question the value of the education being given to the premium workers.

diob 3y ago

This is a joke right? Most remote companies still have timezone restrictions, and the closest places to outsource from America in terms of timezone generally have great worker protections (aka, hard to fire). For the most part, you'll find American companies that are remote are simply hiring from all over America, not the world.

api 3y ago
Also really good developers overseas are not that much cheaper, especially when you add the cost of hiring and managing that far away.
- voisin 3y ago
  This is just not remotely true. I am not sure what you are referring to but even between the US and Canada it is completely incorrect, let alone Eastern Europe and the US. What are you possibly talking about?
- geodel 3y ago
  The operating phrase is really good developers. Because most companies are just churning out basic CRUD micro services. Infact companies emphasis on standardized frameworks is part of this trend. It makes rather easy to replace one dev with another. Companies can and are using vast quantities of developers at far away locations.
  - api 3y ago
    Those jobs are most likely to be replaced by AI or by skilled developers using AI as a force multiplier. I already know developers using AI successfully to automate boilerplate and routine code generation, leaving them more free to spend time on the hard stuff. AI is cheaper than outsourced labor.
jmye 3y ago
Most remote companies don’t need time zone restrictions, and many Indian contractors are already working weird schedules to at least partially align with US time zones. I don’t expect that every company can outsource every WFH job, but the idea that they can’t because it might make a conference call hard is, frankly, rank nonsense.
andrei_says_ 3y ago
On paper, sure. I have fired offshore teams and hired US ones because I prefer people who think, care, look at the big picture, share their experience, and write quality working software, once. Offshore software felt like someone building a car by spotwelding everything together for record times.

hotpotamus 3y ago

Before the pandemic, I was told by private equity people that if a job can be done from home, it can be done from India. And the job I had back then is now more or less done from India.

CapitalistCartr 3y ago
The job absolutely can be done from India. The location isn't the question; the right person is, and the sort of people who say that are the sort who suck at hiring, and don't care. "Hire cheap labor."
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
pokepim 3y ago
[dead]
PhoenixReborn 3y ago
Thanks to an increasing supply of jobs in India, salaries have been rising at the top end of the market. In another 5-10 years, it won't be much cheaper to hire in India as compared to the US.
kibwen 3y ago
If they could, private equity people would reduce you and your family to chattel slavery and Fargo you into a woodchipper when your wasted body finally gives out. They're the problem, not remote work.
- xkekjrktllss 3y ago
  Private equity is an inevitability of a financialised capitalist economy, so what are you suggesting? Some sort of vigilante justice?
  - kibwen 3y ago
    There are innumerable ways to avert the worst iniquities of private equity without going Full Communist Revolution. Of course, the longer that plutocrats try to wring the system dry, the more likely the latter is to happen, but I suppose it would be incoherent of me to expect private equity to understand the concept of thinking in the long-term.

koolba 3y ago

Or that they just weren’t doing that much work in the office either.

ddmichael 3y ago

Recruiting is hard. Global recruiting is really hard.

mynameishere 3y ago

As others mention, there are a range of reasons why Joe Coder keeps his job. Realistically, one of those reasons (like it or not) is that management can see him every day and can go to his cube for face-to-face meetings. They never could do that with Jorge Coder (who is in the same timezone by the way). Well, now it doesn't matter.

zer00eyz 3y ago

I have been WFH for over a decade now. Before that I survived the first dot com bubble, 2008 housing crisis. I have been through rounds of layoffs and all sorts of outsourcing projects. At some point it all boils down to numbers. Why hire a Bay Area resource when a Kansas one is cheaper? Why hire a Kansas one when someone globally is cheaper? I think that the only reason we haven't seen deeper cuts and more tech layoffs and outsourcing is that everyone is skittish about sending work to Eastern Europe. With that venue cut off the remaining tech markets remain higher priced and look a lot less appealing. There are reasons to be in an office sometimes. Planing, team building, those exchanges around the coffee pot. The random engineer who prarridogs and spouts an answer to the problem you're discussing with someone else. Pick your poison, a week every month, a month every quarter get that team building and face time in, pick up the value it has and then go back to WFH and zero commute... The answer isn't no office its "hot desk when it matters"!