8 ms·

The problem is OSS software not even trying to compete with the market. People using OSS software taking it for granted that the UX is going to be subpar, and i

The problem is OSS software not even trying to compete with the market. People using OSS software taking it for granted that the UX is going to be subpar, and it really is. Regular propriety software faces the risk of their users not paying, therefore adapting to make end user experience great. OSS usually doesn't have that risk. Open source needs to be exposed to risk from end users. I tried to change that with Notes[1] but I find it hard to live on solely on ads. I tried to incorporate paying for some premium features (like Kanban) but the app is still fully FOSS therefore everyone can compile it from source easily. I think I'll close-source my next app[2] before it launches. I just can't risk not being paid for my hard work. I also believe the Linux community will benefit from that, since getting paid will allow me to invest more in making UX-focused apps on Linux. I might open source some parts of it tho (or maybe all of it in the far future). [1] https://github.com/nuttyartist/notes https://github.com/nuttyartist/notes [2] https://www.get-plume.com https://www.get-plume.com

thebigspacefuck 3y ago
What does this have that Joplin doesn't have?
- 360MustangScope 3y ago
  For one thing, it’s a lot prettier than Joplin
  - thebigspacefuck 3y ago
    Personally I think Joplin looks better and this looks like a poor macOS clone that lacks many of the features like markdown support or synchronizing across devices including mobile. IMO if Joplin’s problem is the UI, or even just something OP is passionate about, why not contribute and open a PR? Why is the pattern “I care about this one thing so I reimplemented it in a new app from scratch”?
    - rubymamis 3y ago
      - Plume supports Markdown (plus additional plaintext syntax). - Plume is a block editor, unlike Joplin. Therefore plume can have advanced views inside the editor itself (like Kanban, image handling, columns, etc) - Plume is faster than Joplin's non-native editor (the one that renders your Markdown) - IMO Plume is way prettier with far more attention to detail.
beebmam 3y ago
The CLI is peak UX for anyone technically competent.
- Gualdrapo 3y ago
  I agree but CLI just can't cover all use cases - just on top of my head are graphics, animation software, video editing, circuit making...
- throw10920 3y ago
  Well, they think it is. Most of the time, it's not. Command-line tools have terrible ergonomics for many workflows and use-cases.
- nvy 3y ago
  For a subset of tasks, maybe. But I'd rather use Firefox than lynx. And I'd rather use Thunderbird than mutt or pine.
  - worksonmine 3y ago
    I get Firefox (with keyboard navigation) over Lynx but Mutt has been fantastic for my productivity.
- IshKebab 3y ago
  Utter nonsense. The CLI lets you do complex custom things that you sometimes can't do with a GUI. But it is pretty awful from a UX point of view. Terrible discoverability, terrible UI, very unfriendly, no contextual help, etc. etc. I can't think of a worse interface from a UX perspective.
  - nilsherzig 3y ago
    Terrible discoverability? A shell with tab completion is (in my opinion) a lot easier to navigate than for example Photoshops menus.
  - olddustytrail 3y ago
SushiHippie 3y ago
What's the difference between "notes" and "plume"?
- godelski 3y ago
  Hows it different from Obsidian or any other note taking app that has a larger community. I'm sure OP put in lots of hard work and it looks good, but it's not apparent to me why I should abandon my existing platform (stickiness) for another one. There are a lot of note apps out there already which probably makes it hard to sell.
- rubymamis 3y ago
  Plume's editor is a block-editor I wrote completely from scratch using C++ (model) and QML (view). This allows me to create an advance editor that can have complex elements (like Kanban, Columns, advance image components, etc) within the text. The performance using Qt C++ compared to Electron is a mssive improvement over current web apps (like Notion and the likes), and actually, i's even faster than native apps on macOS (Craft, Bike) and apps made in Flutter (AppFlowy). Example: https://imgur.com/wajSjbn https://imgur.com/wajSjbn (I'll implement the Kanban feature next week (:)
  - SushiHippie 3y ago
    Okay that's actually cool, that you switched to something else than electron, but it looks nearly identical from the screenshots, that's why I asked.
alwayslikethis 3y ago
There is a large intersection of Linux users and people who cherish their freedoms. For many people, using non-open source note taking software is a non starter because of the vendor lock-in and privacy concerns. Thus, you'll probably lose out more by not open sourcing the program than by open sourcing it and risk having some people not pay. I wager a lot more people is willing to pay than use proprietary software. Also note that open sourcing doesn't require you to distribute the code to everyone, you can give source code only to paying users if you are charging them money, though they will have the right to modify and redistribute. If they don't care about open source, they might as well just use Notion or Evernote. If someone is looking for an open source state of the art note taking program, I recommend Logseq.
- lupusreal 3y ago
  There are some programs that sell binaries but also give away the code. The premier pixel art editor Aseprite is free (source available, not open source) if you're willing to build it from source yourself, but most users buy the prebuilt binaries. I think this way you satisfy both the privacy conscious / cheapskates, and also the developer's economic needs. RMS doesn't approve I'm sure, but you can't please them all.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    if the license is GPL you can give away the source and sell binaries. you can even restrict giving the source to those that buy your binaries. red hat is doing that. the only limitation is that you can't prevent anyone who has the source from building it themselves and giving away those binaries. but most people who do pay for the binaries won't do that. so whether this strategy works depends on who is your target audience. if you are targeting developers you probably won't sell much. but other audiences may be fine. i don't know.
  - sph 3y ago
    RMS totally approves, and selling binaries (as long as they are accompanied by source code) is explicitly approved by the FSF. Open-source has never been about hating money or working for the glory.
lupusreal 3y ago
> Open source needs to be exposed to risk from end users. Why do open source applications need that? You said yourself that users of open source software accept the subpar UX, so what problem are you trying to solve? Making open source development somehow 'riskier' for programmers without simultaneously providing more reward would only drive programmers away.
- rubymamis 3y ago
  Users of OSS software accepting the subpar experience is the problem. You don't think they look away to their macOS counterparts and wish these polished apps were available on their Linux machines? I used Linux as my primary device for 2.5 years, then switched to macOS and never looked back. Now I want to bring the same polished user experience to other operating systems using Qt. I believe my latest attempt [1] is the closest to get there without the awful sacrifices of Electron apps. [1] https://www.get-plume.com https://www.get-plume.com
throw10920 3y ago
I think you're making the right decision. Open-source is extremely difficult to make even a living wage off of - the number of people who do is orders of magnitude smaller than those who make a living off of commercial software.
- lovelyviking 3y ago
  >Open-source is extremely difficult to make even a living wage off of… So are you saying it’s even possible? I wish to learn at least one option to do it. Few is even better. How at all you can realistically make living this way? Ok, not living , just partial income. Ok not partial. Some income? I am not making fun of I honestly look some way . I understand that if you maintain 10 years some essential part of essential software project then people eventually come to you for consulting or will pay you to shift this part toward their requirements. But other then that? Like can you write useful free software program and really have some money from it ?
  - throw10920 3y ago
    The main options that I'm aware of are: selling support (RedHat), donations (I can't recall examples but they do exist), open-core (GitLab), and paid hosting (WordPress). In the past, there was also the option of selling physical media (which the FSF did for GNU projects, for instance) but that's been killed by the Internet. All of these models are very hard to get working (e.g. the donations model requires that you have a very large number of people interested in your work who are generous with their money, kind of like Twitch streaming), but they can work. They're not an option for the majority of programmers, though.
  - shwouchk 3y ago
    Joey Hess (https://joeyh.name/ https://joeyh.name/) did, at least partially. I remember him raising money to develop git annex.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- rubymamis 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tomcam 3y ago
Thanks for sharing. Appreciate your fighting the good fight, and sorry for the results so far. Maybe apply for a Futo scholarship for one? But definitely close source for Plume.
- rubymamis 3y ago
  No need to be sorry, really. I'm just learning how to navigate this world. I've been pretty lucky so far. Notes is one of the top results in Google (for the keyword "notes"). So I get a lot of traffic and a nice passive income. But it's not something I can fully live on (plus it's unstable and I hate serving ads).
  - tomcam 3y ago
    Hosting?
    - rubymamis 3y ago
      What do you mean by hosting?
hnlmorg 3y ago
Personally I think KDE is light years ahead of macOS and Windows. In fact I find macOS to have been be of the worst window managers of all the popular platforms (sure it’s pretty and easy to use, but trying to do anything beyond the basics requires magical incantations that are impossible to discover organically). Each to their own though.
- rubymamis 3y ago
  Well, I'm a Qt programmer (and love it!), so I know a bit about this ecosystem. Unfortunately in terms of UX and aesthetics, KDE apps don't come even close to the macOS ecosystem. But that's alright. I'm here to change that.
  - lovelyviking 3y ago
    Can you share some of this ‘love’ to me? Because my experience with QT so far was : it does ‘who knows what’, ‘who knows when’ and ‘who knows why’ And if you wish it to work the best tactic is “do not change anything, it will surprise you and there will be no way to go back” :) May be I am missing something important in understanding? I was trying to tweak some projects for my needs. I successfully did it but it was a nightmare.
    - rubymamis 3y ago
      If you learn how to separate your logic in C++ and your views (GUI) in QML you can achieve the best of both worlds. C++ is fast and I love programming with it. QML is easy and powerful you can create slick looking apps with it with beautiful (and easy!) animations. I bought the Udemy course of Bryan[1] and learned QML in one day. The next day I already had a prototype for a Kanban[2] that is based on Markdown. [1] https://www.udemy.com/course/qml-for-beginners/ https://www.udemy.com/course/qml-for-beginners/ [2] https://rubymamistvalove.com/notes/kanban.mp4 https://rubymamistvalove.com/notes/kanban.mp4
      - tfinch 3y ago
        That second link is the the sort of thing I wish I saw more being pushed as an example of QT. Looks great!
lovelyviking 3y ago
on your ‘com’ site mentioned in github page download button does not offer (near by) payed options. Why? Why it is only in the separated Pricing link? Why not to present the same choice in download ?
- rubymamis 3y ago
  Thanks for your remark! I never thought about it. I suspect it will drive down the number of downloads? How do you think it will be beneficial?
  - lovelyviking 3y ago
    I think it could be beneficial because it would be easier for those who wish to pay. They would not have to do extra step looking for that opportunity. I personally do not like (in soft words) when button says one thing and delivers something else. So I think renaming Download into ‘Download options’ were you give choice download ‘ free’, ‘donate’, ‘pay for pro’ etc as you like is acceptable and feels good enough. I do not see why in that case it should reduce number of downloads but every prediction is always a prediction and nothing is better then the real life test.
bachmeier 3y ago
A few thoughts: 1. I've never heard of your app, and I follow this space closely. It's extremely competitive. 2. I clicked to check how much you're asking for premium. It's reasonable on an annual basis, but I only saw an option for a monthly subscription. That's not happening. 3. I'd be more likely to give you a donation than to pay for a premium version for an app like this. That model has worked well for Obsidian. I don't think getting early access to features is worth much, but a lot of people have paid them to support their work. 4. My observation is that a closed core product with a large open source ecosystem around it gives folks a reason to pay.
- rubymamis 3y ago
  Hi! Thanks for your comment. > but I only saw an option for a monthly subscription. What do you mean? The annual subscription doesn't work? Or something else? > I'd be more likely to give you a donation than to pay for a premium version for an app like this. Well, for my Notes app, I can understand. Hopefully you will find my new app as a breath of fresh air in this space. Sign up to get an update please! I would love to hear what you think when the app is out. > My observation is that a closed core product with a large open source ecosystem around it gives folks a reason to pay. Overall, I think people will pay if an app gives them enough value.
freedomben 3y ago
There are definitely some challenges with getting people to pay for OSS, but I wouldn't be so quick to blame that all on what happened in this situation. I think you'd be experiencing the same (or worse) if your app was closed source for reasons I'll mention in a minute. I'm the exact type of person who would be in your target market and likely to pay, but aside from having never heard of your app (which may be your biggest problem), these are the reasons I'm not buying. I'm only sharing this in the hopes that it helps you, not trying to make you feel bad or anything like that. Overall I think you're awesome for making your app open source, and I have a mountain of respect for you for doing that. 1. You're targeting a very crowded and competitive market where top-quality options are 100% free. This would be a huge challenge regardless of whether you're open source or not. 2. Your app is still very young/new. Winning in such a saturated area is going to take some time to even build awareness, let alone get mature/feature complete enough to get people to change. 3. With something like notes, you're looking at people with substantial pre-existing sources. Migration is not trivial either, so there's a big barrier of entry there for people to use your software. I wish you the best, but I think you'd only be harming yourself by closing your next app. You definitely lose people like me for whom my notes are incredibly important and I won't risk losing them to a proprietary tool. Open is mandatory for me to even consider it. I'm pretty happy (maybe even in love) with Logseq, but the performance is definitely a downside and the idea of a C++ app is highly appealing to me, so I'm going to give your app a try. Side note: If your GUI was compatible with logseq's on-disk format, that would make your app quite compelling to me
- rubymamis 3y ago
  I appreciate your opinion. Notes has been quite a success for me. With over 1,300,000 downloads[1], and being featured in awesome tech websites[2]. Just on Ubuntu alone there are 7000 weekly active users (that have downloaded it from the Ubuntu Store). My new app Plume is going to be a big improvement over Notes. First, your data is and will always be as simple as Markdown/plaintext. My new block editor is based completely on plain text while still offering advance views (with a minimalistic syntax). It's also faster than any other in its category, even faster than native apps on macOS! I'll soon put benchmarks on the website. All I can say is, sign up to get an email update and check it out when it's ready. Most of the features will be free with only some advance features paid. BTW, what do you mean by "logseq's on-disk format"? That it's local-first? If so, Plume is also. [1] https://tooomm.github.io/github-release-stats/?username=nuttyartist&repository=notes https://tooomm.github.io/github-release-stats/?username=nutt... [2] https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/09/open-source-qt-notes-app-major-update https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/09/open-source-qt-notes-app...
kilolima 3y ago
I really like the functionality of your notes app, but I don't think emulating Apple UI design is the solution to subpar UI on Linux. Linux users expect basic desktop conventions like toolbars, dropdown menus, and not mobile design concepts like cramming everything into a hamburger menu.
- rubymamis 3y ago
  Have you even tried using my app? It doesn't have any of the "mobile design concepts" that you're talking about. > cramming everything into a hamburger menu - Import/Export - Check for updates - Start automatically - Hide to tray - Change database path - About Notes - Quit Is that EVERYTHING? No. It's not. I don't like using hamburger menus for everything myself. This is why the options are minimalistic. Look at other Gnome apps using hamburger menus, no need to go as far as "Apple UI" (which actually discourages hamburger menus for desktops apps).
vcg3rd 3y ago
I understand your frustration, but I have a couple of counter-examples, and I don't offer them in any derogatory way. 1) Notes looks a lot like Standard Notes. If you built Notes using copy-left, OSS it's hard to complain unless you pay "royalties" to all the programmers whose work was incorporated into yours. 2) I am probably atypical. I have used Linux for over 20 years, but I can't write so much as a Bash script or a Perl one-liner. Yet I have spent a whole lot more money on software than I would have (or most individuals do) on other platforms. Because I can't code and appreciate the work of others and the freedom it gives me I support the following (not exclusive): * Kaisen (my distro) and Debian (the distro Kaisen is built on) both * tFSF for both core utilities and Emacs * My DE (KDE), and even if I prefer the UI of other applications I mostly try to use those provided by KDE,tFSF, Debian, or Kaisen (e.g Akregator over RSSGuard) unless I donate, like: * Mozilla (for Firefox), but * Betterbird for my email client * Syncthing * LaGrange (gopher/gemini) * Joplin * ClipTo * and more, including services (e.g. SoulSeek, envs.net) Some annually, some monthly, some one-time. In fact, when Standard Notes first came out I paid for a seven year subscription, and then ended up using it for about 2 months before becoming dissatisfied. There are some, like Alacritty, that I use extensively but which I have found no way to donate to, but I try to keep it to a minimum.
- rubymamis 3y ago
  There are some amazing people that valued what I'm doing. One person even donated $1000 years ago. But that doesn't make it sustainable. I think it's time for me to compete on the market. I believe Plume is going to be a good addition to the pool of productivity apps today, but I'll let people judge that when it's released. I hope you will sign up to get an update[2] and let me know what you think of it when it is released. BTW, are you suggesting I copied Standard Notes? Not really, I don't like their design. Notes is in active development since 2014 (first commit on GitHub in 2015), back then I didn't even know about Standard Notes and the core design barely changed. [1] https://github.com/nuttyartist/notes/releases/tag/v0.8.0-beta https://github.com/nuttyartist/notes/releases/tag/v0.8.0-bet... [2] https://www.get-plume.com/ https://www.get-plume.com/
  - vcg3rd 3y ago
devaiops9001 3y ago
I am in an interim CTO position and the year before the title of a role I acted as had "Principal" in its title. I still write Commonmark files to render them to HTML and PDF with Pandoc. There are dozens of Markdown note taking apps out there. There are half a dozen Notion clones out there. I know which one will overwhelmingly win mindshare due to a special feature but I won't give away why (the feature itself is more valuable than a Notion clone or even Notion itself). You might be able to get paid for providing something valuable to others. Sometimes hard work is involved in providing value to others, but performing hardwork doesn't necessarily mean you have provided value to others.
- rubymamis 3y ago
  > but performing hardwork doesn't necessarily mean you have provided value to others. Very much agree. I guess only time will tell (when I launch).
binkHN 3y ago
> People using OSS software taking it for granted that the UX is going to be subpar... After using the abomination known as Windows 11, I'd argue that the UX of Linux is well beyond par, especially when par for Windows 11 is showing Microsoft ads at you while you're using almost every application.
weikju 3y ago
Notes is a beautiful app! Wow. Regarding Plume: just from that landing page, it looks 100% like Notes. Anyway, I'm interested to learn more about it when it launches!

thebigspacefuck 3y ago

What does this have that Joplin doesn't have?

360MustangScope 3y ago
For one thing, it’s a lot prettier than Joplin
- thebigspacefuck 3y ago
  Personally I think Joplin looks better and this looks like a poor macOS clone that lacks many of the features like markdown support or synchronizing across devices including mobile. IMO if Joplin’s problem is the UI, or even just something OP is passionate about, why not contribute and open a PR? Why is the pattern “I care about this one thing so I reimplemented it in a new app from scratch”?
  - rubymamis 3y ago
    - Plume supports Markdown (plus additional plaintext syntax). - Plume is a block editor, unlike Joplin. Therefore plume can have advanced views inside the editor itself (like Kanban, image handling, columns, etc) - Plume is faster than Joplin's non-native editor (the one that renders your Markdown) - IMO Plume is way prettier with far more attention to detail.

beebmam 3y ago

The CLI is peak UX for anyone technically competent.

Gualdrapo 3y ago
I agree but CLI just can't cover all use cases - just on top of my head are graphics, animation software, video editing, circuit making...
throw10920 3y ago
Well, they think it is. Most of the time, it's not. Command-line tools have terrible ergonomics for many workflows and use-cases.
nvy 3y ago
For a subset of tasks, maybe. But I'd rather use Firefox than lynx. And I'd rather use Thunderbird than mutt or pine.
- worksonmine 3y ago
  I get Firefox (with keyboard navigation) over Lynx but Mutt has been fantastic for my productivity.
IshKebab 3y ago
Utter nonsense. The CLI lets you do complex custom things that you sometimes can't do with a GUI. But it is pretty awful from a UX point of view. Terrible discoverability, terrible UI, very unfriendly, no contextual help, etc. etc. I can't think of a worse interface from a UX perspective.
- nilsherzig 3y ago
  Terrible discoverability? A shell with tab completion is (in my opinion) a lot easier to navigate than for example Photoshops menus.
- olddustytrail 3y ago

SushiHippie 3y ago

What's the difference between "notes" and "plume"?

godelski 3y ago
Hows it different from Obsidian or any other note taking app that has a larger community. I'm sure OP put in lots of hard work and it looks good, but it's not apparent to me why I should abandon my existing platform (stickiness) for another one. There are a lot of note apps out there already which probably makes it hard to sell.
rubymamis 3y ago
Plume's editor is a block-editor I wrote completely from scratch using C++ (model) and QML (view). This allows me to create an advance editor that can have complex elements (like Kanban, Columns, advance image components, etc) within the text. The performance using Qt C++ compared to Electron is a mssive improvement over current web apps (like Notion and the likes), and actually, i's even faster than native apps on macOS (Craft, Bike) and apps made in Flutter (AppFlowy). Example: https://imgur.com/wajSjbn https://imgur.com/wajSjbn (I'll implement the Kanban feature next week (:)
- SushiHippie 3y ago
  Okay that's actually cool, that you switched to something else than electron, but it looks nearly identical from the screenshots, that's why I asked.

alwayslikethis 3y ago

There is a large intersection of Linux users and people who cherish their freedoms. For many people, using non-open source note taking software is a non starter because of the vendor lock-in and privacy concerns. Thus, you'll probably lose out more by not open sourcing the program than by open sourcing it and risk having some people not pay. I wager a lot more people is willing to pay than use proprietary software. Also note that open sourcing doesn't require you to distribute the code to everyone, you can give source code only to paying users if you are charging them money, though they will have the right to modify and redistribute. If they don't care about open source, they might as well just use Notion or Evernote. If someone is looking for an open source state of the art note taking program, I recommend Logseq.

lupusreal 3y ago
There are some programs that sell binaries but also give away the code. The premier pixel art editor Aseprite is free (source available, not open source) if you're willing to build it from source yourself, but most users buy the prebuilt binaries. I think this way you satisfy both the privacy conscious / cheapskates, and also the developer's economic needs. RMS doesn't approve I'm sure, but you can't please them all.
- em-bee 3y ago
  if the license is GPL you can give away the source and sell binaries. you can even restrict giving the source to those that buy your binaries. red hat is doing that. the only limitation is that you can't prevent anyone who has the source from building it themselves and giving away those binaries. but most people who do pay for the binaries won't do that. so whether this strategy works depends on who is your target audience. if you are targeting developers you probably won't sell much. but other audiences may be fine. i don't know.
- sph 3y ago
  RMS totally approves, and selling binaries (as long as they are accompanied by source code) is explicitly approved by the FSF. Open-source has never been about hating money or working for the glory.

lupusreal 3y ago

> Open source needs to be exposed to risk from end users. Why do open source applications need that? You said yourself that users of open source software accept the subpar UX, so what problem are you trying to solve? Making open source development somehow 'riskier' for programmers without simultaneously providing more reward would only drive programmers away.

rubymamis 3y ago
Users of OSS software accepting the subpar experience is the problem. You don't think they look away to their macOS counterparts and wish these polished apps were available on their Linux machines? I used Linux as my primary device for 2.5 years, then switched to macOS and never looked back. Now I want to bring the same polished user experience to other operating systems using Qt. I believe my latest attempt [1] is the closest to get there without the awful sacrifices of Electron apps. [1] https://www.get-plume.com https://www.get-plume.com

throw10920 3y ago

I think you're making the right decision. Open-source is extremely difficult to make even a living wage off of - the number of people who do is orders of magnitude smaller than those who make a living off of commercial software.

lovelyviking 3y ago
>Open-source is extremely difficult to make even a living wage off of… So are you saying it’s even possible? I wish to learn at least one option to do it. Few is even better. How at all you can realistically make living this way? Ok, not living , just partial income. Ok not partial. Some income? I am not making fun of I honestly look some way . I understand that if you maintain 10 years some essential part of essential software project then people eventually come to you for consulting or will pay you to shift this part toward their requirements. But other then that? Like can you write useful free software program and really have some money from it ?
- throw10920 3y ago
  The main options that I'm aware of are: selling support (RedHat), donations (I can't recall examples but they do exist), open-core (GitLab), and paid hosting (WordPress). In the past, there was also the option of selling physical media (which the FSF did for GNU projects, for instance) but that's been killed by the Internet. All of these models are very hard to get working (e.g. the donations model requires that you have a very large number of people interested in your work who are generous with their money, kind of like Twitch streaming), but they can work. They're not an option for the majority of programmers, though.
- shwouchk 3y ago
  Joey Hess (https://joeyh.name/ https://joeyh.name/) did, at least partially. I remember him raising money to develop git annex.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
rubymamis 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

tomcam 3y ago

Thanks for sharing. Appreciate your fighting the good fight, and sorry for the results so far. Maybe apply for a Futo scholarship for one? But definitely close source for Plume.

rubymamis 3y ago
No need to be sorry, really. I'm just learning how to navigate this world. I've been pretty lucky so far. Notes is one of the top results in Google (for the keyword "notes"). So I get a lot of traffic and a nice passive income. But it's not something I can fully live on (plus it's unstable and I hate serving ads).
- tomcam 3y ago
  Hosting?
  - rubymamis 3y ago
    What do you mean by hosting?

hnlmorg 3y ago

Personally I think KDE is light years ahead of macOS and Windows. In fact I find macOS to have been be of the worst window managers of all the popular platforms (sure it’s pretty and easy to use, but trying to do anything beyond the basics requires magical incantations that are impossible to discover organically). Each to their own though.

rubymamis 3y ago
Well, I'm a Qt programmer (and love it!), so I know a bit about this ecosystem. Unfortunately in terms of UX and aesthetics, KDE apps don't come even close to the macOS ecosystem. But that's alright. I'm here to change that.
- lovelyviking 3y ago
  Can you share some of this ‘love’ to me? Because my experience with QT so far was : it does ‘who knows what’, ‘who knows when’ and ‘who knows why’ And if you wish it to work the best tactic is “do not change anything, it will surprise you and there will be no way to go back” :) May be I am missing something important in understanding? I was trying to tweak some projects for my needs. I successfully did it but it was a nightmare.
  - rubymamis 3y ago
    If you learn how to separate your logic in C++ and your views (GUI) in QML you can achieve the best of both worlds. C++ is fast and I love programming with it. QML is easy and powerful you can create slick looking apps with it with beautiful (and easy!) animations. I bought the Udemy course of Bryan[1] and learned QML in one day. The next day I already had a prototype for a Kanban[2] that is based on Markdown. [1] https://www.udemy.com/course/qml-for-beginners/ https://www.udemy.com/course/qml-for-beginners/ [2] https://rubymamistvalove.com/notes/kanban.mp4 https://rubymamistvalove.com/notes/kanban.mp4
    - tfinch 3y ago
      That second link is the the sort of thing I wish I saw more being pushed as an example of QT. Looks great!

lovelyviking 3y ago

on your ‘com’ site mentioned in github page download button does not offer (near by) payed options. Why? Why it is only in the separated Pricing link? Why not to present the same choice in download ?

rubymamis 3y ago
Thanks for your remark! I never thought about it. I suspect it will drive down the number of downloads? How do you think it will be beneficial?
- lovelyviking 3y ago
  I think it could be beneficial because it would be easier for those who wish to pay. They would not have to do extra step looking for that opportunity. I personally do not like (in soft words) when button says one thing and delivers something else. So I think renaming Download into ‘Download options’ were you give choice download ‘ free’, ‘donate’, ‘pay for pro’ etc as you like is acceptable and feels good enough. I do not see why in that case it should reduce number of downloads but every prediction is always a prediction and nothing is better then the real life test.

bachmeier 3y ago

A few thoughts: 1. I've never heard of your app, and I follow this space closely. It's extremely competitive. 2. I clicked to check how much you're asking for premium. It's reasonable on an annual basis, but I only saw an option for a monthly subscription. That's not happening. 3. I'd be more likely to give you a donation than to pay for a premium version for an app like this. That model has worked well for Obsidian. I don't think getting early access to features is worth much, but a lot of people have paid them to support their work. 4. My observation is that a closed core product with a large open source ecosystem around it gives folks a reason to pay.

rubymamis 3y ago
Hi! Thanks for your comment. > but I only saw an option for a monthly subscription. What do you mean? The annual subscription doesn't work? Or something else? > I'd be more likely to give you a donation than to pay for a premium version for an app like this. Well, for my Notes app, I can understand. Hopefully you will find my new app as a breath of fresh air in this space. Sign up to get an update please! I would love to hear what you think when the app is out. > My observation is that a closed core product with a large open source ecosystem around it gives folks a reason to pay. Overall, I think people will pay if an app gives them enough value.

freedomben 3y ago

There are definitely some challenges with getting people to pay for OSS, but I wouldn't be so quick to blame that all on what happened in this situation. I think you'd be experiencing the same (or worse) if your app was closed source for reasons I'll mention in a minute. I'm the exact type of person who would be in your target market and likely to pay, but aside from having never heard of your app (which may be your biggest problem), these are the reasons I'm not buying. I'm only sharing this in the hopes that it helps you, not trying to make you feel bad or anything like that. Overall I think you're awesome for making your app open source, and I have a mountain of respect for you for doing that. 1. You're targeting a very crowded and competitive market where top-quality options are 100% free. This would be a huge challenge regardless of whether you're open source or not. 2. Your app is still very young/new. Winning in such a saturated area is going to take some time to even build awareness, let alone get mature/feature complete enough to get people to change. 3. With something like notes, you're looking at people with substantial pre-existing sources. Migration is not trivial either, so there's a big barrier of entry there for people to use your software. I wish you the best, but I think you'd only be harming yourself by closing your next app. You definitely lose people like me for whom my notes are incredibly important and I won't risk losing them to a proprietary tool. Open is mandatory for me to even consider it. I'm pretty happy (maybe even in love) with Logseq, but the performance is definitely a downside and the idea of a C++ app is highly appealing to me, so I'm going to give your app a try. Side note: If your GUI was compatible with logseq's on-disk format, that would make your app quite compelling to me

rubymamis 3y ago
I appreciate your opinion. Notes has been quite a success for me. With over 1,300,000 downloads[1], and being featured in awesome tech websites[2]. Just on Ubuntu alone there are 7000 weekly active users (that have downloaded it from the Ubuntu Store). My new app Plume is going to be a big improvement over Notes. First, your data is and will always be as simple as Markdown/plaintext. My new block editor is based completely on plain text while still offering advance views (with a minimalistic syntax). It's also faster than any other in its category, even faster than native apps on macOS! I'll soon put benchmarks on the website. All I can say is, sign up to get an email update and check it out when it's ready. Most of the features will be free with only some advance features paid. BTW, what do you mean by "logseq's on-disk format"? That it's local-first? If so, Plume is also. [1] https://tooomm.github.io/github-release-stats/?username=nuttyartist&repository=notes https://tooomm.github.io/github-release-stats/?username=nutt... [2] https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/09/open-source-qt-notes-app-major-update https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/09/open-source-qt-notes-app...

kilolima 3y ago

I really like the functionality of your notes app, but I don't think emulating Apple UI design is the solution to subpar UI on Linux. Linux users expect basic desktop conventions like toolbars, dropdown menus, and not mobile design concepts like cramming everything into a hamburger menu.

rubymamis 3y ago
Have you even tried using my app? It doesn't have any of the "mobile design concepts" that you're talking about. > cramming everything into a hamburger menu - Import/Export - Check for updates - Start automatically - Hide to tray - Change database path - About Notes - Quit Is that EVERYTHING? No. It's not. I don't like using hamburger menus for everything myself. This is why the options are minimalistic. Look at other Gnome apps using hamburger menus, no need to go as far as "Apple UI" (which actually discourages hamburger menus for desktops apps).

vcg3rd 3y ago

I understand your frustration, but I have a couple of counter-examples, and I don't offer them in any derogatory way. 1) Notes looks a lot like Standard Notes. If you built Notes using copy-left, OSS it's hard to complain unless you pay "royalties" to all the programmers whose work was incorporated into yours. 2) I am probably atypical. I have used Linux for over 20 years, but I can't write so much as a Bash script or a Perl one-liner. Yet I have spent a whole lot more money on software than I would have (or most individuals do) on other platforms. Because I can't code and appreciate the work of others and the freedom it gives me I support the following (not exclusive): * Kaisen (my distro) and Debian (the distro Kaisen is built on) both * tFSF for both core utilities and Emacs * My DE (KDE), and even if I prefer the UI of other applications I mostly try to use those provided by KDE,tFSF, Debian, or Kaisen (e.g Akregator over RSSGuard) unless I donate, like: * Mozilla (for Firefox), but * Betterbird for my email client * Syncthing * LaGrange (gopher/gemini) * Joplin * ClipTo * and more, including services (e.g. SoulSeek, envs.net) Some annually, some monthly, some one-time. In fact, when Standard Notes first came out I paid for a seven year subscription, and then ended up using it for about 2 months before becoming dissatisfied. There are some, like Alacritty, that I use extensively but which I have found no way to donate to, but I try to keep it to a minimum.

rubymamis 3y ago
There are some amazing people that valued what I'm doing. One person even donated $1000 years ago. But that doesn't make it sustainable. I think it's time for me to compete on the market. I believe Plume is going to be a good addition to the pool of productivity apps today, but I'll let people judge that when it's released. I hope you will sign up to get an update[2] and let me know what you think of it when it is released. BTW, are you suggesting I copied Standard Notes? Not really, I don't like their design. Notes is in active development since 2014 (first commit on GitHub in 2015), back then I didn't even know about Standard Notes and the core design barely changed. [1] https://github.com/nuttyartist/notes/releases/tag/v0.8.0-beta https://github.com/nuttyartist/notes/releases/tag/v0.8.0-bet... [2] https://www.get-plume.com/ https://www.get-plume.com/
- vcg3rd 3y ago

devaiops9001 3y ago

I am in an interim CTO position and the year before the title of a role I acted as had "Principal" in its title. I still write Commonmark files to render them to HTML and PDF with Pandoc. There are dozens of Markdown note taking apps out there. There are half a dozen Notion clones out there. I know which one will overwhelmingly win mindshare due to a special feature but I won't give away why (the feature itself is more valuable than a Notion clone or even Notion itself). You might be able to get paid for providing something valuable to others. Sometimes hard work is involved in providing value to others, but performing hardwork doesn't necessarily mean you have provided value to others.

rubymamis 3y ago
> but performing hardwork doesn't necessarily mean you have provided value to others. Very much agree. I guess only time will tell (when I launch).

binkHN 3y ago

> People using OSS software taking it for granted that the UX is going to be subpar... After using the abomination known as Windows 11, I'd argue that the UX of Linux is well beyond par, especially when par for Windows 11 is showing Microsoft ads at you while you're using almost every application.

weikju 3y ago

Notes is a beautiful app! Wow. Regarding Plume: just from that landing page, it looks 100% like Notes. Anyway, I'm interested to learn more about it when it launches!