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Fuck these companies that think they can break the unions our former generations built for the purpose of being treated fair. Americans don't get it. We Scandi

Fuck these companies that think they can break the unions our former generations built for the purpose of being treated fair. Americans don't get it. We Scandinavians are not built on a cultural foundation which circles around creating our own safety nets. We are not lucky. We worked hard for it for hundreds of years. Same thing goes for Wolt or Uber etc. They are not welcome here if they can't treat workers by their unions commitments. Fuck the money and hail solidarity.

randall 3y ago
Can you tell me more about the safety net thing? As an American I actually don’t understand that point. Are you saying culturally your family wouldn’t feel obligated to be a safety net if another family member was struggling? And that the unions defacto provide that sort of guarantee?
- raoulkent 3y ago
  Generally, you take part of a union as a member. This includes that the union will deal with some negotiations with employers, will help you with legal issues regarding work and will help you with financial aid if you are let go. In Sweden we have no laws for minimum wages and many worker rights are instead regulated through union-employer agreements.
- maigret 3y ago
  Family can be and is one safety net in Europe, but many people haven't one, or one that can help, or one that wants to help. Nordic countries have been very stable through history and developed a culture where the community goes much farther than family. This helps the society become more resilient in an environment where the climate was historically very harsh and unforgiving. Also it feels great to be able to trust the existing rules in place. You know what to expect, and you feel fine to follow them when you know they are enforced to others as well. You expect others to know and follow the rules as well.
- throw310822 3y ago
  No, I guess it means that Europeans think that there is a minimum level of welfare that must be guaranteed to everyone, and that minimum level is way above what is granted in the US. This doesn't mean that family members won't also contribute to that "safety net", just that there is a relatively high "acceptable minimum" and the state is expected to make sure that nobody falls below that.
- isodev 3y ago
  I'm from Belgium and the same sentiment applies. The "safety net" here refers to protections encoded in both the law and how social and communal structures and services are designed to work. While you can always reach to your family (if you have one...), you probably don't have to or great deal of "bad things" need to happen for a prolonged period of time before you will need to consider this as an option. Simply put, when it comes to your work environment, healthcare, housing, ability to put food on the table and access essential services like water, electricity, internet etc. - there are systems in place to reduce risk and "surprises", ensure your survival and equip you with the ability to tackle general "stuff of life". That's (in part) also why we pay very high taxes.
- dromtrund 3y ago
  In the US, wages, vacation, healthcare, pension plans and care for the elderly are private arrangements set up by everyone individually (technically). The Nordic model is a collective arrangement, where safety nets are provided by the government, benefits are governed by law and compensation is governed by collective agreements between unions and employers. Most families would provide for their own if it was required, but it's not a scenario most people ever need to consider, even as a backup, as bad luck alone can't put you in that situation, you'd need to actively seek it out.
- SwedishExpat 3y ago
  Unions offer a lot of support to individuals that mean you don't need to save as much of a safety net for yourself. The most obvious one is unemployment insurance, I get 80% of my salary for 12 months if I lose my job until I find a new one which the Union will support. They also provide me with beneficial mortgage rates because I'm financially more secure with that insurance.
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  My name is Walter Hartwell White and I don’t understand these words either.
misja111 3y ago
> We are not lucky. We worked hard for it for hundreds of years. No, you are lucky, because your ancestors worked hard for it for hundreds of years.
- dijit 3y ago
  Both are true, The country is not "lucky" because it happened upon a culture, it worked towards it. The individual is lucky to be born bearing the fruits of that hard work. But that puts a duty on the individuals not to squander or destroy these hard won triumphs.
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  ... and if we continue to work for it as well then we are both lucky as well as reaping the fruits of our own labor. But I’m sure you don’t know (or care) about that part.
SCM-Enthusiast 3y ago
Yeah... As an American, i don't get it. Why is the Swedish union forcing the workers at Tesla to sign an arb agreement when they get paid much more than the average union worker in the country? Does strong union actually result in better pay? If you compare the average software salary from the US to Sweden, it seems like it's doing the opposite, no?
- waffleiron 3y ago
  It's not all about pay. This is a very US view, unions can negotiate on a lot more aspects of work.
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  You live on the other side of a world ocean (at least). Not everything has to make sense to you or be expressed in Silicon Valley terms. Try to make an effort yourself.
- Hikikomori 3y ago
  There's other things just as important as salary. https://www.dn.se/ekonomi/teslamedarbetare-ingen-har-koll-pa-arbetsmiljolagen/ https://www.dn.se/ekonomi/teslamedarbetare-ingen-har-koll-pa...
- surgical_fire 3y ago
  > Does strong union actually result in better pay? I could make double my salary if I accepted offers from US companies, but I've chosen to live in Europe instead. Money is a mean to something, ultimately. I actually believe that the labor protections and social safety net provided in European countries typically makes for a healthier society.
- xorcist 3y ago
  This is certainly not about pay, as no one has suggested Tesla pays worse than anyone else. It is about upholding a free labor market by contract law. If you don't want to negotiate that contract, the majority of the market will come together and refuse doing business with you until you do.
buzzert 3y ago
> Americans don't get it. We Scandinavians are not built on a cultural foundation which circles around creating our own safety nets. Worth noting that Sweden has a worse homelessness rate than the US, at 36/10k compared to 17.5/10k in the US[0]. Sweden's homelessness rate appears to be about on par with South Africa's. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_homeless_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_ho...

randall 3y ago

Can you tell me more about the safety net thing? As an American I actually don’t understand that point. Are you saying culturally your family wouldn’t feel obligated to be a safety net if another family member was struggling? And that the unions defacto provide that sort of guarantee?

raoulkent 3y ago
Generally, you take part of a union as a member. This includes that the union will deal with some negotiations with employers, will help you with legal issues regarding work and will help you with financial aid if you are let go. In Sweden we have no laws for minimum wages and many worker rights are instead regulated through union-employer agreements.
maigret 3y ago
Family can be and is one safety net in Europe, but many people haven't one, or one that can help, or one that wants to help. Nordic countries have been very stable through history and developed a culture where the community goes much farther than family. This helps the society become more resilient in an environment where the climate was historically very harsh and unforgiving. Also it feels great to be able to trust the existing rules in place. You know what to expect, and you feel fine to follow them when you know they are enforced to others as well. You expect others to know and follow the rules as well.
throw310822 3y ago
No, I guess it means that Europeans think that there is a minimum level of welfare that must be guaranteed to everyone, and that minimum level is way above what is granted in the US. This doesn't mean that family members won't also contribute to that "safety net", just that there is a relatively high "acceptable minimum" and the state is expected to make sure that nobody falls below that.
isodev 3y ago
I'm from Belgium and the same sentiment applies. The "safety net" here refers to protections encoded in both the law and how social and communal structures and services are designed to work. While you can always reach to your family (if you have one...), you probably don't have to or great deal of "bad things" need to happen for a prolonged period of time before you will need to consider this as an option. Simply put, when it comes to your work environment, healthcare, housing, ability to put food on the table and access essential services like water, electricity, internet etc. - there are systems in place to reduce risk and "surprises", ensure your survival and equip you with the ability to tackle general "stuff of life". That's (in part) also why we pay very high taxes.
dromtrund 3y ago
In the US, wages, vacation, healthcare, pension plans and care for the elderly are private arrangements set up by everyone individually (technically). The Nordic model is a collective arrangement, where safety nets are provided by the government, benefits are governed by law and compensation is governed by collective agreements between unions and employers. Most families would provide for their own if it was required, but it's not a scenario most people ever need to consider, even as a backup, as bad luck alone can't put you in that situation, you'd need to actively seek it out.
SwedishExpat 3y ago
Unions offer a lot of support to individuals that mean you don't need to save as much of a safety net for yourself. The most obvious one is unemployment insurance, I get 80% of my salary for 12 months if I lose my job until I find a new one which the Union will support. They also provide me with beneficial mortgage rates because I'm financially more secure with that insurance.
avgcorrection 3y ago
My name is Walter Hartwell White and I don’t understand these words either.

misja111 3y ago

> We are not lucky. We worked hard for it for hundreds of years. No, you are lucky, because your ancestors worked hard for it for hundreds of years.

dijit 3y ago
Both are true, The country is not "lucky" because it happened upon a culture, it worked towards it. The individual is lucky to be born bearing the fruits of that hard work. But that puts a duty on the individuals not to squander or destroy these hard won triumphs.
avgcorrection 3y ago
... and if we continue to work for it as well then we are both lucky as well as reaping the fruits of our own labor. But I’m sure you don’t know (or care) about that part.

SCM-Enthusiast 3y ago

Yeah... As an American, i don't get it. Why is the Swedish union forcing the workers at Tesla to sign an arb agreement when they get paid much more than the average union worker in the country? Does strong union actually result in better pay? If you compare the average software salary from the US to Sweden, it seems like it's doing the opposite, no?

waffleiron 3y ago
It's not all about pay. This is a very US view, unions can negotiate on a lot more aspects of work.
avgcorrection 3y ago
You live on the other side of a world ocean (at least). Not everything has to make sense to you or be expressed in Silicon Valley terms. Try to make an effort yourself.
Hikikomori 3y ago
There's other things just as important as salary. https://www.dn.se/ekonomi/teslamedarbetare-ingen-har-koll-pa-arbetsmiljolagen/ https://www.dn.se/ekonomi/teslamedarbetare-ingen-har-koll-pa...
surgical_fire 3y ago
> Does strong union actually result in better pay? I could make double my salary if I accepted offers from US companies, but I've chosen to live in Europe instead. Money is a mean to something, ultimately. I actually believe that the labor protections and social safety net provided in European countries typically makes for a healthier society.
xorcist 3y ago
This is certainly not about pay, as no one has suggested Tesla pays worse than anyone else. It is about upholding a free labor market by contract law. If you don't want to negotiate that contract, the majority of the market will come together and refuse doing business with you until you do.

buzzert 3y ago

> Americans don't get it. We Scandinavians are not built on a cultural foundation which circles around creating our own safety nets. Worth noting that Sweden has a worse homelessness rate than the US, at 36/10k compared to 17.5/10k in the US[0]. Sweden's homelessness rate appears to be about on par with South Africa's. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_homeless_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_ho...