8 ms·

Reviving decade-old Macs with antiX and MX Linux (2022)

199 points by indigodaddy 3y ago

johnklos 3y ago
Or, the MacBook and MacBook Air can run newer macOS using OpenCore Legacy: https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.ht... The MacBook can run Catalina with full graphics support, and the MacBook Air can run anything all the way up to the latest Sonoma. The iMac still run Lion with updated browsers / SSL certs that'll let it be used for simple tasks like watching YouTube.
- Foobar8568 3y ago
  One or two years ago, I have tried to run a recent macOS on a Macbook air 11" from 2011, 4GB of ram, it was just unbearable, any actions would take seconds, I wonder if it is still problematic.
  - Synaesthesia 3y ago
    Personally I think they run really well on modern OS, I've got Sonoma running well on my 2012 and 2013 MBPs.
  - Joeri 3y ago
    8 GB RAM is the baseline for modern macOS. It really doesn’t like being forced to do with less, even if the 4 gb macbooks are not that old (4 gb airs were sold until 2016). People keep nagging apple to up the baseline RAM from 8 to 12 or 16 on the new machines, but given how the 4 to 8 jump played out it would probably quickly make that vast sea of soldered 8 gb machines incapable of running newer macOS versions well.
  - Synaesthesia 3y ago
    Depends which version you tried to run, the MacBooks without metal graphics are really bad on modern OSes, but they have made a lot of progress with the patches.
- pndy 3y ago
  For my macbook pro 13" late 2011 I've pick manjaro with gnome and with OpenCore Legacy Patcher I managed to squeeze macos 13.5 on in. While manjaro makes the machine relatively useful for the current day - for really simple tasks that is, the 13.5 misses much especially with low amount of ram. But worse thing is that this device comes with Intel HD Graphics 3000 and some stuff just simply won't load like Maps because this GPU isn't supported by Metal API. In the past I tried Lubuntu on eMac G4 with 800mhz PPC - it was a rather painful experience. So I replaced it with 10.4 and with help of Macintosh Garden slapped additionally os 9.2.2 for for some dualboot retro fun
  - realPtolemy 3y ago
    I’m running Manjaro on a late 2012 MacBook Pro, it’s running flawlessly. The only initial issue I had was that I had to configurate the broadcom WiFi driver manually. Super easy after some googling for the more technically interested person… But nothing I would expect the general person to solve without frustration. 8gb RAM, 125gb SSD. 1xBattery replacement. It does not run IDE’s like ST32 (based on Eclipse) and OneNote via Firefox smoothly simultaneously. But everything else so far has worked flawlessly. I use it every day and have done so since the beginning of this fall. Edit: Call me a script kid all you want, for this particular laptop it’s just more convenient for me to run Manjaro rather than Arch right of the bat. But I guess I could eventually set up a shared partition for storage and an individual partition for each OS.
    - UncleSlacky 3y ago
      Same here with my recent (free!) acquisition, a mid-2012 unibody Pro, when I installed Solus on it. However, when I booted it with MX initially, it automagically set up the wifi driver.
    - greggsy 3y ago
      Lack of wifi support for any given distro I’m testing out is an instant rollback for me. I just don’t have the time or patience anymore. It has always been a problem.
    - pndy 3y ago
- justinclift 3y ago
  > The iMac still run Lion ... Pity about the lack of security updates in the intervening years.
- geon 3y ago
  Or just run an era-appropriate macos.
- CharlesW 3y ago
  > Or, the MacBook and MacBook Air can run newer macOS using OpenCore Legacy: This project is amazing. I just installed Ventura on an Apple Mac mini "Core i7" 2.7 (Mid-2011, “Macmini5,2”). The process went smoothly once I figured out that I needed another old Intel Mac to create the USB boot volume for an even older Intel Mac.
  - november84 3y ago
    I'm glad you posted this info but this is where I'm stuck. My mbp 2015 is the only Intel device I have Available and the main position died...so my only working position is windows and I'm running into issues getting into recovery. Even internet recovery wont work :/.
    - CharlesW 3y ago
      Yeah, that bit's frustrating if you don't have access to an Intel Mac. And I had the same experience as you with Apple's Internet Recovery — I must've tried it 20 times without success, and as far as I can tell the problem is Apple's. LMK if I can send you a DMG with an OpenCore-enabled Yosemite installer on it. I believe I just need to know your exact model, which you can look at up at https://everymac.com/ultimate-mac-lookup/ https://everymac.com/ultimate-mac-lookup/. (I temporarily put my email in my HN profile.)
      - november84 3y ago
        Emailed you, much appreciated!!
- Moto7451 3y ago
  OpenCore also simplifies running Linux on the Apple EFI 1.1 environment. https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Multiboot/oc/linux.html#method-b-chainloading-a-efi-bootloader-grub2-systemd-boot https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Multiboot/oc/linux.html#... It’s such a cool project.
userbinator 3y ago
Those are actually slightly newer than my "daily driver". If you take care to avoid the "modern" bloated crap, or notoriously intensive like new games, or now AI-related stuff, a decade-old computer is absolutely more than enough computing power for a lot of things.
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  Very true. My daily driver at the moment is a Latitude from like 2011 or so. It already had an SSD, I just needed to upgrade the ram to 8gb. I can browse the web, watch movies and can play older games (including csgo before they upgraded to cs2). Some stuff sucks, YouTube is awfully resource intensive as are some other sites like Facebook, but since I mostly write it's acceptable for daily use. Thing sure does get hot though.
  - tommica 3y ago
    Clean it?
    - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
      It's not that. I've taken it apart numerous times and cleaned out any dust I see. There's no clogging or anything going on. Maybe it needs more thermal paste, but honestly whenever I've tried that in the past on older laptops it made no difference. Not sure what else it could be. Besides, it still works fine, just hear the fan whirring up pretty often.
      - Sakos 3y ago
        What CPU is it? My suggestions: Have you checked with Throttlestop if it's being throttled for any reason? Have you tried setting your power option to performance or checking the energy options for the cooling strategy and max clockspeed allowed? Based on what you've written, I think it's very likely that the heat pipes (if any) need to be replaced since the coolant inside has probably evaporated and escaped. As it's a Dell, replacement parts should be easy to get.
account-5 3y ago
MX Linux is my distro of choice, currently running my 13 year old desktop I built in 2010.
- serf 3y ago
  I haven't used it before. Why do you like it? Given that it's apparently worked around xfce i'm not sure how I missed it, that's by far my favorite DE.
  - account-5 3y ago
    I'm using the fluxbox flavour. I'm using it because my 13 year old desktop runs it like it's a new computer. It's rolling release, of sorts, meaning no 2/5 yearly upgrade/reinstall. I think also it doesn't use systemd, which was at some point important to me. It's really lightweight too, I run VMs on it no hassles. I used to use crunchbang before it was discontinued because I want the operating system to get out the way so I can get on with what I need to do. Unlike Mac and Windows which are, from my experience, always in your way.
  - severine 3y ago
    It is IMO the best Xfce distro, it has a set of apps (MX-Tools) with a lot of quality of life features (snapshots, backups, services manager, and much more). Systemd is optional, off by default but works perfectly if needed. Great community and great performance, 10/10 will keep using it and installing in relatives' machines, try it!
- type0 3y ago
  One of the best features of MX that you can run it easily as persistent image on USB, especially if you get yourself a small relatively good NVMe SSD with enclosure (DIY USB stick)
linmob 3y ago
If one wants to put these old machines to good use, it's worth remembering (after checking that they still work), that these older machines (the iMac and the MacBook) are still user-upgradable. The iMac should allow for 4GB of RAM (of which only 3 will be usable), the MacBook unofficially supports 8GB. Add in a cheap S-ATA SSD, and for some not too high, two digit amount of EUR or USD, these machines will be actually useful for someone.
- password4321 3y ago
  Virtually every step in the iFixit upgrade guide for separating the screen glued onto my iMac was followed by "if you do this wrong you'll crack the screen" so I've stuck with it as a beautiful screen for connecting to other more powerful machines.
  - linmob 3y ago
    I was going to add an caveat about that, but it turns out, that for the iMac 5,1 (the model discussed in the article) RAM upgrades are easy [1] (SSD not so much, but it should still be better than some of its aluminum successors [2]). That said, I definitely agree and advise: Before you order parts to upgrade things, check whether you feel up for the install procedure. [1] https://de.ifixit.com/Anleitung/iMac+Intel+17-Inch+RAM+Replacement/886?lang=en https://de.ifixit.com/Anleitung/iMac+Intel+17-Inch+RAM+Repla... [2] https://de.ifixit.com/Anleitung/iMac+Intel+17-Inch+Hard+Drive+Replacement/891?lang=en https://de.ifixit.com/Anleitung/iMac+Intel+17-Inch+Hard+Driv...
  - cpuguy83 3y ago
    I upgraded the hdd to an ssd in a 2009 iMac. Don't think I ever noticed the "you may crack it" warning. Honestly it's not too bad. The more painful thing is actually working on the guts while also trying to hold the screen up (because it's attached to things). That said, the RAM is user-accessible on these older iMacs from a tray at the bottom edge of the screen.
  - macNchz 3y ago
    I upgraded both of my parents iMacs (about 10 years old now, but importantly with USB 3), which would otherwise have required screen removal to do the drive, by just hooking up a portable USB SSD, making it the boot drive, and taping it to the back of the machine. Huge improvement over the HDD.
pachico 3y ago
Only a decade of life doesn't seem to me something that should require "revival". I'm still using my 11y/o Dell XPS which I cannot upgrade but works great.
- LispSporks22 3y ago
  This was my problem with the article too. It’s not that ancient.
LispSporks22 3y ago
This guy calling my company issued MBP ancient? It’s my portal into the cloud driven clusterfuck known locally as “production” still
ladyanita22 3y ago
Any Linux distro would run well on those, even the latest Ubuntu and Fedora.
- ladyanita22 3y ago
  To be fair, this would apply to all except the 1GB Ram IMac. That one would need an upgrade. After that, both the Macbook and it would run flawlessly KDE or MATE. Tbe 8GB Ram one can just run regular Fedora or Gnome without any issues.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ge96 3y ago
2015 MBP i7, 16GB ram still going The display is so good
C15JON 3y ago
You can get round that black but lit screen by connecting an external monitor. You can unplug it afterwards but it’s needed to get Linux installed on some iMacs.
sinuhe69 3y ago
His MacBook Air from 2012 has (roughly) the same specs as the Lenovo I bought for my son in 2021! Poor me! :)
- worthless-trash 3y ago
  If you bought it new from lenovo, the CPU is significantly different and improved, likely has faster RAM, usb3 and more.
  - swagempire 3y ago
    Not sure I agree. While about USB3 and even USBC it might be true, but I have a MacBook Pro 2011 (2.4Ghz Core i5), that I put a 256Gb SSD in and upgraded to 8GB of RAM. It is certainly as or more powerful than the Lenovo N5030 with 8GB of RAM I picked up new this year running Windows 11. Those older i5s age very nice. With the Open Core Legacy Patcher -- it runs Ventura very well, btw.
    - worthless-trash 3y ago
      Which I5 you got in your macbook pro ? Which I5 do you think the lenovo ships ? Which DDR do you think is used in the lenovo ? I'm not saying the apple laptops are bad, but the amount of apple hallucination in this site is bordering on insane.
      - swagempire 3y ago
        Not really. I'm sure any 10 year old i5 based system would perform similarly. The point is more about how slow Intel processors still are really.
        worthless-trash 3y ago
        Desktop 2013 i5 - Core i5-3340 (choosing this to put your arguement at an advantage Mobile 2013 i5 - Core i5-13600T (choosing this as its mobile, with the same approximate price point). https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/5175vs2071/Intel-i5-13600T-vs-Intel-i5-3340 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/5175vs2071/Intel-i5-136... While not the most informative of benchmarks, you'll find that 10 year old i5's really are quite a bit slower, especially when attempting to power more modern hardware (SSD, more powerful GPU) due to the both the slower ram, thinner busses and crappier cache. Intels branding is -so good- that people have blurred all their i5 experiences together. > The point is more about how slow Intel processors still are really. The i3/i5 is not their flagship CPU, Its middle market tech, The 'middle market' gets something which is 'just enough to keep them happy'. Most of these systems run a browser and office, so as long as that works, people are happy. When you want performance from intel you buy their higher end i9's and Xeons,
3VoLt_oZ 3y ago
do you know if there are up()downgradeable versions on the iPad operating system as well? Please some one..
- ireflect 3y ago
  I asked this question on tinkerdifferent and got some good leads. Unfortunately the options are sparse and somewhat more challenging to do. https://tinkerdifferent.com/threads/reviving-old-ipads-gen-2-3.2289/ https://tinkerdifferent.com/threads/reviving-old-ipads-gen-2...
3VoLt_oZ 3y ago
do you know if there are upgradeable versions on the iPad operating system as well?
- lproven 3y ago
  No. Only to newer iOS/iPadOS releases. Once it's no longer supported, it's a picture frame. I have a lovely iPad Retina which has a tiny crack on one corner, so it's unsellable. Still has a few days of battery life on 1 charge, runs iOS 9 fine, but that means an unusable: browser, email client, FB/Twitter clients, chat client, and almost everything else. It talks to Hotmail, and none of my 6 email accounts, including plain IMAP. It can play movies and show pictures, and read ebooks, and basically nothing else.
kunley 3y ago
Funny how some people in the comments here are calling the OP's hardware as inferior in terms of computing power, while in reality their software is often being run on production on much more limited resources paid with quite a load of money.
ForOldHack 3y ago
This article is both excellent and brilliant. Lots of ideas... but one misnomer about Snow Leopard and 32-bit EFI. "You can force Snow Leopard 10.6 to use the 64 bit kernel by holding down the “6” and “4” keys during system boot. Likewise, you can switch back to the 32 bit kernel by holding down “3” and “2” during system boot. It may be stating the obvious, but the 64 bit kernel will not work on a machine that is not 64 bit." That is a CPU that is 64-bit, but an EFI that is 32-bit will boot Snow Leopard in 64-bit mode, and the 32-bit Snow Leopard and the 64-bit Snow Leopard will run 64-bit applications. The 2006 MacServe was the first 32-bit EFI to boot and run 64-bit Snow Leopard, and support 32GB of ram, and I have heard that every Intel Mac that supported Snow Leopard after that could also do it, but I only tried it on Mac Pros and iMacs, and a few Macbooks. The iMacs needed a 4GB SO-Dimm on the right hand slot, and it would both recognize 6GB and run applications that were 64-bit.
- ForOldHack 3y ago
  Your milage may vary, but this was my source: https://blog.fosketts.net/2009/08/30/64bit-snow-leopard-kernel/ https://blog.fosketts.net/2009/08/30/64bit-snow-leopard-kern...
prmoustache 3y ago
With 1GB or more of memory, you don't need a specific distro. The most popular ones should run, albeit with not too much ram to spare for browsing with the default desktop. You only need to install a lighter wm like icewm, windowmaker or fvwm and you are good to go. And if those machines haven't soldered components, a wee bit more ram and replacing the spinning drives with SSDs would transform them to something functionally very modern. Having said that I would have probably gone the openbsd/netbsd route with those machines.
jbirer 3y ago
I want to use antiX but the "proudly anti-fascist" political message on the website worries me - we recently had news where an open source contributor had their library randomly delete files on a computer if the user was from Russia and I am not sure if the antiX developer will ever decide my country (Turkey) is evil and I deserve to get rm -rf'ed.
- UncleSlacky 3y ago
  Surely that could happen with any distro?
  - extraduder_ire 3y ago
    I think the odds of it happening decrease as the distro gets more mainstream. At the very least you'd be more likely to be warned about it when it makes headlines.
- throw10920 3y ago
  Yes - like Asahi Linux, the developers of antiX seem pretty volatile and untrustworthy. Best to stay away.
Applejinx 3y ago
Make it into a musical instrument/recording and mixing machine. I still support those directly (airwindows.com). I also produce VST2.4s that ought to work for your Linux versions of those same Macs. Fairly often they have useful things like digital optical ins and outs. My primary development is on an old laptop running Snow Leopard for just this sort of reason. I'm pretty sure you can get versions of Reaper (or the current version) for machines this old. If you want to get fancy put a SSD in the old machine, which will get a lot more out of it.
cassepipe 3y ago
That old "mac can support 64bit OSes but will only boot 32bit EFI" was one of the first rabbit hole I encountered but casually trying to install Linux. I managed to do it but with such pain. This was the first program I compiled and I didn't know C or programming at the time : https://github.com/cassepipe/make_single_eltorito.c https://github.com/cassepipe/make_single_eltorito.c
- extraduder_ire 3y ago
  I ran into this exact problem when putting linux on a late 2006 imac. I ended up using the mac specific image that ubuntu had available at the time which (based on later research) removed efi and relied on the machine's bios emulation. I tried windows 8, and then linux mint first but both didn't output sound. (I think mint defaulted to optical out with no way to change it) Booted up into a 64 bit OS just fine after that.
dghughes 3y ago
I wish my 2012 17" MacBook Pro was working it had the dreaded video card failure. I wasn't aware of the recall until a few months after it ended. It sort of work for a while but it finally quit for about 2019 and hasn't been on a charger since. I'd put Linux on it I think it would still be good. It's got an SSD stuffed with RAM, I can't recall what CPU it has. Stupidly expensive it's embarrassing for such a costly thing to fail so soon, it had been failing only a few years into owning it from new but past its warranty period.
nottorp 3y ago
But those aren't that old. How about the PowerPC ones? :) The collector in me still keeps a G5 iMac in sight on a desk. Don't think I've turned it on this year.
- maxmalkav 3y ago
  You may want to turn it on and check how it is doing, just in case. That model is infamously known for its bad capacitors and their tendency to bulge and die. As a side note, I find OpenBSD the best modern OS for those old PowerPC machines. The main "problem" is the lack of modern web browsers, but it is not like the CPU can handle the modern web anyway :-)
  - nottorp 3y ago
    Oh yeah, if i run tenfourfox the fan screams :) I really don't know how people used the G5 iMacs (i bought it used for like eur 100). I ordered another set of fans and both are vaccum cleaner-ish.
zitsarethecure 3y ago
Fedora 39 runs great on my decade old Thinkpad X1 Carbon. Proudly running systemd, too!
volkadav 3y ago
I first parsed this as "decades old" and "mk linux", heh. Was rather surprised to see the new intel machines in the article and not, like, an m68k or ppc model. :) You know you're getting old when "lightweight distro" no longer means something that boots from a 3.5" diskette and only needs single-digit megabytes of ram.
epakai 3y ago
Old x86 Macs with non-intel GPUs tend to be a dice roll. I only pick up old models with intel integrated, as none of them are built to be serviced, and you need specific replacements for the ones that are. They're neat machines, but even old ones hold a premium over contemporaries.
- Sakos 3y ago
  I'd also avoid any older laptop with a dedicated GPU. Particularly Apple, but I'd say it applies to every other manufacturer too considering how little thought they generally put into sufficient cooling. I've seen way too many laptops with defective dGPUs.
lizknope 3y ago
I have 3 old Macbooks. MacBook2,1 from 2007 (64-bit CPU with 32-bit EFI boot environment) MacBookAir4,1 from 2011 (full 64-bit) MacBookPro10,2 from 2012 (full 64-bit) The article author had a link to this page at the bottom. I've used this software for years to modify the Linux ISO and then it boots perfectly fine on these old 32-bit EFI machines. https://mattgadient.com/linux-dvd-images-and-how-to-for-32-bit-efi-macs-late-2006-models/ https://mattgadient.com/linux-dvd-images-and-how-to-for-32-b... I run Fedora with the XFCE desktop on all of my machines whether they are brand new or 16 years old. It works fine on all of them, I've never bothered with a "light" distribution because the latest Fedora with XFCE always works fine for me. Most of these stay at my sister's and parents house so I have a computer there for web, terminals, and debug stuff at their homes. I've got newer stuff for daily use but these machines are still fine for occasional use like that.
- UncleSlacky 3y ago
  Another nice thing about the MacBook2,1 is that it's just about the easiest machine to libreboot, and once you've done that the 32-bit restriction goes away (I'm running Trisquel Lite on mine for the full "libre" experience): https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/macbook21.html https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/macbook21.html
uuddlrlrbaba 3y ago
Personally I stopped messing with old hardware on the desktop side. Old laptops make great servers though -- built in UPS and KVM! Fire up some containers and enable all the P states But as a desktop there is a lot that is obnoxiously slow or flat out unusable on old gear. The modern web is really taxing on old hardware like this and its super frustrating to experience severe lag on even basic sites like youtube
- fishtacos 3y ago
  This* Old laptops make great servers for the very reasons you mentioned Built-in UPS, good enough performance and also reusing old hardware instead of a landfill.Am currently using an 8GB laptop for a server as it's become rather expensive to use a 400W (on average) 4U server 24/7.
rpgbr 3y ago
Debian with a basic wm, like Sway or i3, wouldn’t be a good option in those machines?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
asow92 3y ago
I use a 2.4Ghz Core 2 Duo 2007 iMac running Snow Leopard as my photo lab workstation. Upgraded to 5GB RAM, 512GB SSD. Runs Aperture 2, scans film, and prints photos like a dream. It can even do some light web browsing with https://github.com/wicknix/InterWebSnow https://github.com/wicknix/InterWebSnow, but it often struggles with the modern web. This machine can also be upgraded to a Core 2 Extreme, but I haven't found that necessary for my workflow.
- readyplayernull 3y ago
  After Snow Leopard MacOS went downhill in performance, every app ran very slowly in my MacBook Pro 2007 with El Capitan, without ever using more than 30% of CPU capacity, the system just crippled them.
  - asow92 3y ago
    Agreed 100%. 10.6 is arguably the best version of Mac OS ever. It gave us 64bit GCD and was highly optimized for the hardware of the time. Native software of the time flys on the build listed above.
caycep 3y ago
granted, does anyone remember MkLinux w/ the Mach microkernel?
zare_st 3y ago
Not about Macs but I "revived" my 15 y.o. desktop, had original board and CPU (Q6600), SSD and powersupply stored for years. Bought 8 GB of DDR2, a fanless GT9500 and a cheap case. My case is to have a modern PC but older types of monitors. I like to hook up CRTs just for fun. When you use sub-HD resolutions this kind of computer goes to Youtube normally. Which reminds me of how deep we're in era of iterative design. Modern workflow is possible on a 15 years old platform, because the platform hasn't changed significantly. Imagine trying a year 2000 workflow on a 1985 PC.
badpun 3y ago
I have a decade old Mac (2013 MBP with discrete GPU) and it runs Windows 10 perfectly fine. I even do some light gaming on it.
mensetmanusman 3y ago
I replaced the hd on a 2011 imac with SSD and it's amazing how much faster it is. Basically can be used for another 5 years.
morog 3y ago
I resurrected my wife's 13 year old Sony Vaio as an emergency laptop recently with MX Linux. I had previously tried Ubuntu and also Zorin Lite on it, both worked - but slowly and things like hibernate were broken and freezing up if left unattended. MX is amazing on it, it runs as fast as I remember XP did when the laptop was new, hibernate works perfectly, screen dimming, extending display over multiple monitors and handling unplugging a monitor fine...all the things that Linux has been known to have issues with on random hardware. I have now put in a bigger SSD and 8 more GB of RAM and the laptop is a great little media centre and simple gaming machine for the kids. I'm tempted to setup dual booting my Dell with MX now, it's a great desktop and project

199 points by indigodaddy 3y ago

Or, the MacBook and MacBook Air can run newer macOS using OpenCore Legacy: https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.ht... The MacBook can run Catalina with full graphics support, and the MacBook Air can run anything all the way up to the latest Sonoma. The iMac still run Lion with updated browsers / SSL certs that'll let it be used for simple tasks like watching YouTube.

Foobar8568 3y ago
One or two years ago, I have tried to run a recent macOS on a Macbook air 11" from 2011, 4GB of ram, it was just unbearable, any actions would take seconds, I wonder if it is still problematic.
- Synaesthesia 3y ago
  Personally I think they run really well on modern OS, I've got Sonoma running well on my 2012 and 2013 MBPs.
- Joeri 3y ago
  8 GB RAM is the baseline for modern macOS. It really doesn’t like being forced to do with less, even if the 4 gb macbooks are not that old (4 gb airs were sold until 2016). People keep nagging apple to up the baseline RAM from 8 to 12 or 16 on the new machines, but given how the 4 to 8 jump played out it would probably quickly make that vast sea of soldered 8 gb machines incapable of running newer macOS versions well.
- Synaesthesia 3y ago
  Depends which version you tried to run, the MacBooks without metal graphics are really bad on modern OSes, but they have made a lot of progress with the patches.
pndy 3y ago
For my macbook pro 13" late 2011 I've pick manjaro with gnome and with OpenCore Legacy Patcher I managed to squeeze macos 13.5 on in. While manjaro makes the machine relatively useful for the current day - for really simple tasks that is, the 13.5 misses much especially with low amount of ram. But worse thing is that this device comes with Intel HD Graphics 3000 and some stuff just simply won't load like Maps because this GPU isn't supported by Metal API. In the past I tried Lubuntu on eMac G4 with 800mhz PPC - it was a rather painful experience. So I replaced it with 10.4 and with help of Macintosh Garden slapped additionally os 9.2.2 for for some dualboot retro fun
- realPtolemy 3y ago
  I’m running Manjaro on a late 2012 MacBook Pro, it’s running flawlessly. The only initial issue I had was that I had to configurate the broadcom WiFi driver manually. Super easy after some googling for the more technically interested person… But nothing I would expect the general person to solve without frustration. 8gb RAM, 125gb SSD. 1xBattery replacement. It does not run IDE’s like ST32 (based on Eclipse) and OneNote via Firefox smoothly simultaneously. But everything else so far has worked flawlessly. I use it every day and have done so since the beginning of this fall. Edit: Call me a script kid all you want, for this particular laptop it’s just more convenient for me to run Manjaro rather than Arch right of the bat. But I guess I could eventually set up a shared partition for storage and an individual partition for each OS.
  - UncleSlacky 3y ago
    Same here with my recent (free!) acquisition, a mid-2012 unibody Pro, when I installed Solus on it. However, when I booted it with MX initially, it automagically set up the wifi driver.
  - greggsy 3y ago
    Lack of wifi support for any given distro I’m testing out is an instant rollback for me. I just don’t have the time or patience anymore. It has always been a problem.
  - pndy 3y ago
justinclift 3y ago
> The iMac still run Lion ... Pity about the lack of security updates in the intervening years.
geon 3y ago
Or just run an era-appropriate macos.
CharlesW 3y ago
> Or, the MacBook and MacBook Air can run newer macOS using OpenCore Legacy: This project is amazing. I just installed Ventura on an Apple Mac mini "Core i7" 2.7 (Mid-2011, “Macmini5,2”). The process went smoothly once I figured out that I needed another old Intel Mac to create the USB boot volume for an even older Intel Mac.
- november84 3y ago
  I'm glad you posted this info but this is where I'm stuck. My mbp 2015 is the only Intel device I have Available and the main position died...so my only working position is windows and I'm running into issues getting into recovery. Even internet recovery wont work :/.
  - CharlesW 3y ago
    Yeah, that bit's frustrating if you don't have access to an Intel Mac. And I had the same experience as you with Apple's Internet Recovery — I must've tried it 20 times without success, and as far as I can tell the problem is Apple's. LMK if I can send you a DMG with an OpenCore-enabled Yosemite installer on it. I believe I just need to know your exact model, which you can look at up at https://everymac.com/ultimate-mac-lookup/ https://everymac.com/ultimate-mac-lookup/. (I temporarily put my email in my HN profile.)
    - november84 3y ago
      Emailed you, much appreciated!!
Moto7451 3y ago
OpenCore also simplifies running Linux on the Apple EFI 1.1 environment. https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Multiboot/oc/linux.html#method-b-chainloading-a-efi-bootloader-grub2-systemd-boot https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Multiboot/oc/linux.html#... It’s such a cool project.

userbinator 3y ago

Those are actually slightly newer than my "daily driver". If you take care to avoid the "modern" bloated crap, or notoriously intensive like new games, or now AI-related stuff, a decade-old computer is absolutely more than enough computing power for a lot of things.

PrimeMcFly 3y ago
Very true. My daily driver at the moment is a Latitude from like 2011 or so. It already had an SSD, I just needed to upgrade the ram to 8gb. I can browse the web, watch movies and can play older games (including csgo before they upgraded to cs2). Some stuff sucks, YouTube is awfully resource intensive as are some other sites like Facebook, but since I mostly write it's acceptable for daily use. Thing sure does get hot though.
- tommica 3y ago
  Clean it?
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    It's not that. I've taken it apart numerous times and cleaned out any dust I see. There's no clogging or anything going on. Maybe it needs more thermal paste, but honestly whenever I've tried that in the past on older laptops it made no difference. Not sure what else it could be. Besides, it still works fine, just hear the fan whirring up pretty often.
    - Sakos 3y ago
      What CPU is it? My suggestions: Have you checked with Throttlestop if it's being throttled for any reason? Have you tried setting your power option to performance or checking the energy options for the cooling strategy and max clockspeed allowed? Based on what you've written, I think it's very likely that the heat pipes (if any) need to be replaced since the coolant inside has probably evaporated and escaped. As it's a Dell, replacement parts should be easy to get.

account-5 3y ago

MX Linux is my distro of choice, currently running my 13 year old desktop I built in 2010.

serf 3y ago
I haven't used it before. Why do you like it? Given that it's apparently worked around xfce i'm not sure how I missed it, that's by far my favorite DE.
- account-5 3y ago
  I'm using the fluxbox flavour. I'm using it because my 13 year old desktop runs it like it's a new computer. It's rolling release, of sorts, meaning no 2/5 yearly upgrade/reinstall. I think also it doesn't use systemd, which was at some point important to me. It's really lightweight too, I run VMs on it no hassles. I used to use crunchbang before it was discontinued because I want the operating system to get out the way so I can get on with what I need to do. Unlike Mac and Windows which are, from my experience, always in your way.
- severine 3y ago
  It is IMO the best Xfce distro, it has a set of apps (MX-Tools) with a lot of quality of life features (snapshots, backups, services manager, and much more). Systemd is optional, off by default but works perfectly if needed. Great community and great performance, 10/10 will keep using it and installing in relatives' machines, try it!
type0 3y ago
One of the best features of MX that you can run it easily as persistent image on USB, especially if you get yourself a small relatively good NVMe SSD with enclosure (DIY USB stick)

linmob 3y ago

If one wants to put these old machines to good use, it's worth remembering (after checking that they still work), that these older machines (the iMac and the MacBook) are still user-upgradable. The iMac should allow for 4GB of RAM (of which only 3 will be usable), the MacBook unofficially supports 8GB. Add in a cheap S-ATA SSD, and for some not too high, two digit amount of EUR or USD, these machines will be actually useful for someone.

password4321 3y ago
Virtually every step in the iFixit upgrade guide for separating the screen glued onto my iMac was followed by "if you do this wrong you'll crack the screen" so I've stuck with it as a beautiful screen for connecting to other more powerful machines.
- linmob 3y ago
  I was going to add an caveat about that, but it turns out, that for the iMac 5,1 (the model discussed in the article) RAM upgrades are easy [1] (SSD not so much, but it should still be better than some of its aluminum successors [2]). That said, I definitely agree and advise: Before you order parts to upgrade things, check whether you feel up for the install procedure. [1] https://de.ifixit.com/Anleitung/iMac+Intel+17-Inch+RAM+Replacement/886?lang=en https://de.ifixit.com/Anleitung/iMac+Intel+17-Inch+RAM+Repla... [2] https://de.ifixit.com/Anleitung/iMac+Intel+17-Inch+Hard+Drive+Replacement/891?lang=en https://de.ifixit.com/Anleitung/iMac+Intel+17-Inch+Hard+Driv...
- cpuguy83 3y ago
  I upgraded the hdd to an ssd in a 2009 iMac. Don't think I ever noticed the "you may crack it" warning. Honestly it's not too bad. The more painful thing is actually working on the guts while also trying to hold the screen up (because it's attached to things). That said, the RAM is user-accessible on these older iMacs from a tray at the bottom edge of the screen.
- macNchz 3y ago
  I upgraded both of my parents iMacs (about 10 years old now, but importantly with USB 3), which would otherwise have required screen removal to do the drive, by just hooking up a portable USB SSD, making it the boot drive, and taping it to the back of the machine. Huge improvement over the HDD.

pachico 3y ago

Only a decade of life doesn't seem to me something that should require "revival". I'm still using my 11y/o Dell XPS which I cannot upgrade but works great.

LispSporks22 3y ago
This was my problem with the article too. It’s not that ancient.

LispSporks22 3y ago

This guy calling my company issued MBP ancient? It’s my portal into the cloud driven clusterfuck known locally as “production” still

ladyanita22 3y ago

Any Linux distro would run well on those, even the latest Ubuntu and Fedora.

ladyanita22 3y ago
To be fair, this would apply to all except the 1GB Ram IMac. That one would need an upgrade. After that, both the Macbook and it would run flawlessly KDE or MATE. Tbe 8GB Ram one can just run regular Fedora or Gnome without any issues.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ge96 3y ago

2015 MBP i7, 16GB ram still going The display is so good

C15JON 3y ago

You can get round that black but lit screen by connecting an external monitor. You can unplug it afterwards but it’s needed to get Linux installed on some iMacs.

sinuhe69 3y ago

His MacBook Air from 2012 has (roughly) the same specs as the Lenovo I bought for my son in 2021! Poor me! :)

worthless-trash 3y ago
If you bought it new from lenovo, the CPU is significantly different and improved, likely has faster RAM, usb3 and more.
- swagempire 3y ago
  Not sure I agree. While about USB3 and even USBC it might be true, but I have a MacBook Pro 2011 (2.4Ghz Core i5), that I put a 256Gb SSD in and upgraded to 8GB of RAM. It is certainly as or more powerful than the Lenovo N5030 with 8GB of RAM I picked up new this year running Windows 11. Those older i5s age very nice. With the Open Core Legacy Patcher -- it runs Ventura very well, btw.
  - worthless-trash 3y ago
    Which I5 you got in your macbook pro ? Which I5 do you think the lenovo ships ? Which DDR do you think is used in the lenovo ? I'm not saying the apple laptops are bad, but the amount of apple hallucination in this site is bordering on insane.
    - swagempire 3y ago
      Not really. I'm sure any 10 year old i5 based system would perform similarly. The point is more about how slow Intel processors still are really.
      - worthless-trash 3y ago
        Desktop 2013 i5 - Core i5-3340 (choosing this to put your arguement at an advantage Mobile 2013 i5 - Core i5-13600T (choosing this as its mobile, with the same approximate price point). https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/5175vs2071/Intel-i5-13600T-vs-Intel-i5-3340 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/5175vs2071/Intel-i5-136... While not the most informative of benchmarks, you'll find that 10 year old i5's really are quite a bit slower, especially when attempting to power more modern hardware (SSD, more powerful GPU) due to the both the slower ram, thinner busses and crappier cache. Intels branding is -so good- that people have blurred all their i5 experiences together. > The point is more about how slow Intel processors still are really. The i3/i5 is not their flagship CPU, Its middle market tech, The 'middle market' gets something which is 'just enough to keep them happy'. Most of these systems run a browser and office, so as long as that works, people are happy. When you want performance from intel you buy their higher end i9's and Xeons,

3VoLt_oZ 3y ago

do you know if there are up()downgradeable versions on the iPad operating system as well? Please some one..

ireflect 3y ago
I asked this question on tinkerdifferent and got some good leads. Unfortunately the options are sparse and somewhat more challenging to do. https://tinkerdifferent.com/threads/reviving-old-ipads-gen-2-3.2289/ https://tinkerdifferent.com/threads/reviving-old-ipads-gen-2...

3VoLt_oZ 3y ago

do you know if there are upgradeable versions on the iPad operating system as well?

lproven 3y ago
No. Only to newer iOS/iPadOS releases. Once it's no longer supported, it's a picture frame. I have a lovely iPad Retina which has a tiny crack on one corner, so it's unsellable. Still has a few days of battery life on 1 charge, runs iOS 9 fine, but that means an unusable: browser, email client, FB/Twitter clients, chat client, and almost everything else. It talks to Hotmail, and none of my 6 email accounts, including plain IMAP. It can play movies and show pictures, and read ebooks, and basically nothing else.

kunley 3y ago

Funny how some people in the comments here are calling the OP's hardware as inferior in terms of computing power, while in reality their software is often being run on production on much more limited resources paid with quite a load of money.

ForOldHack 3y ago

This article is both excellent and brilliant. Lots of ideas... but one misnomer about Snow Leopard and 32-bit EFI. "You can force Snow Leopard 10.6 to use the 64 bit kernel by holding down the “6” and “4” keys during system boot. Likewise, you can switch back to the 32 bit kernel by holding down “3” and “2” during system boot. It may be stating the obvious, but the 64 bit kernel will not work on a machine that is not 64 bit." That is a CPU that is 64-bit, but an EFI that is 32-bit will boot Snow Leopard in 64-bit mode, and the 32-bit Snow Leopard and the 64-bit Snow Leopard will run 64-bit applications. The 2006 MacServe was the first 32-bit EFI to boot and run 64-bit Snow Leopard, and support 32GB of ram, and I have heard that every Intel Mac that supported Snow Leopard after that could also do it, but I only tried it on Mac Pros and iMacs, and a few Macbooks. The iMacs needed a 4GB SO-Dimm on the right hand slot, and it would both recognize 6GB and run applications that were 64-bit.

ForOldHack 3y ago
Your milage may vary, but this was my source: https://blog.fosketts.net/2009/08/30/64bit-snow-leopard-kernel/ https://blog.fosketts.net/2009/08/30/64bit-snow-leopard-kern...

prmoustache 3y ago

With 1GB or more of memory, you don't need a specific distro. The most popular ones should run, albeit with not too much ram to spare for browsing with the default desktop. You only need to install a lighter wm like icewm, windowmaker or fvwm and you are good to go. And if those machines haven't soldered components, a wee bit more ram and replacing the spinning drives with SSDs would transform them to something functionally very modern. Having said that I would have probably gone the openbsd/netbsd route with those machines.

jbirer 3y ago

I want to use antiX but the "proudly anti-fascist" political message on the website worries me - we recently had news where an open source contributor had their library randomly delete files on a computer if the user was from Russia and I am not sure if the antiX developer will ever decide my country (Turkey) is evil and I deserve to get rm -rf'ed.

UncleSlacky 3y ago
Surely that could happen with any distro?
- extraduder_ire 3y ago
  I think the odds of it happening decrease as the distro gets more mainstream. At the very least you'd be more likely to be warned about it when it makes headlines.
throw10920 3y ago
Yes - like Asahi Linux, the developers of antiX seem pretty volatile and untrustworthy. Best to stay away.

Applejinx 3y ago

Make it into a musical instrument/recording and mixing machine. I still support those directly (airwindows.com). I also produce VST2.4s that ought to work for your Linux versions of those same Macs. Fairly often they have useful things like digital optical ins and outs. My primary development is on an old laptop running Snow Leopard for just this sort of reason. I'm pretty sure you can get versions of Reaper (or the current version) for machines this old. If you want to get fancy put a SSD in the old machine, which will get a lot more out of it.

cassepipe 3y ago

That old "mac can support 64bit OSes but will only boot 32bit EFI" was one of the first rabbit hole I encountered but casually trying to install Linux. I managed to do it but with such pain. This was the first program I compiled and I didn't know C or programming at the time : https://github.com/cassepipe/make_single_eltorito.c https://github.com/cassepipe/make_single_eltorito.c

extraduder_ire 3y ago
I ran into this exact problem when putting linux on a late 2006 imac. I ended up using the mac specific image that ubuntu had available at the time which (based on later research) removed efi and relied on the machine's bios emulation. I tried windows 8, and then linux mint first but both didn't output sound. (I think mint defaulted to optical out with no way to change it) Booted up into a 64 bit OS just fine after that.

dghughes 3y ago

I wish my 2012 17" MacBook Pro was working it had the dreaded video card failure. I wasn't aware of the recall until a few months after it ended. It sort of work for a while but it finally quit for about 2019 and hasn't been on a charger since. I'd put Linux on it I think it would still be good. It's got an SSD stuffed with RAM, I can't recall what CPU it has. Stupidly expensive it's embarrassing for such a costly thing to fail so soon, it had been failing only a few years into owning it from new but past its warranty period.

nottorp 3y ago

But those aren't that old. How about the PowerPC ones? :) The collector in me still keeps a G5 iMac in sight on a desk. Don't think I've turned it on this year.

maxmalkav 3y ago
You may want to turn it on and check how it is doing, just in case. That model is infamously known for its bad capacitors and their tendency to bulge and die. As a side note, I find OpenBSD the best modern OS for those old PowerPC machines. The main "problem" is the lack of modern web browsers, but it is not like the CPU can handle the modern web anyway :-)
- nottorp 3y ago
  Oh yeah, if i run tenfourfox the fan screams :) I really don't know how people used the G5 iMacs (i bought it used for like eur 100). I ordered another set of fans and both are vaccum cleaner-ish.

zitsarethecure 3y ago

Fedora 39 runs great on my decade old Thinkpad X1 Carbon. Proudly running systemd, too!

volkadav 3y ago

I first parsed this as "decades old" and "mk linux", heh. Was rather surprised to see the new intel machines in the article and not, like, an m68k or ppc model. :) You know you're getting old when "lightweight distro" no longer means something that boots from a 3.5" diskette and only needs single-digit megabytes of ram.

epakai 3y ago

Old x86 Macs with non-intel GPUs tend to be a dice roll. I only pick up old models with intel integrated, as none of them are built to be serviced, and you need specific replacements for the ones that are. They're neat machines, but even old ones hold a premium over contemporaries.

Sakos 3y ago
I'd also avoid any older laptop with a dedicated GPU. Particularly Apple, but I'd say it applies to every other manufacturer too considering how little thought they generally put into sufficient cooling. I've seen way too many laptops with defective dGPUs.

lizknope 3y ago

I have 3 old Macbooks. MacBook2,1 from 2007 (64-bit CPU with 32-bit EFI boot environment) MacBookAir4,1 from 2011 (full 64-bit) MacBookPro10,2 from 2012 (full 64-bit) The article author had a link to this page at the bottom. I've used this software for years to modify the Linux ISO and then it boots perfectly fine on these old 32-bit EFI machines. https://mattgadient.com/linux-dvd-images-and-how-to-for-32-bit-efi-macs-late-2006-models/ https://mattgadient.com/linux-dvd-images-and-how-to-for-32-b... I run Fedora with the XFCE desktop on all of my machines whether they are brand new or 16 years old. It works fine on all of them, I've never bothered with a "light" distribution because the latest Fedora with XFCE always works fine for me. Most of these stay at my sister's and parents house so I have a computer there for web, terminals, and debug stuff at their homes. I've got newer stuff for daily use but these machines are still fine for occasional use like that.

UncleSlacky 3y ago
Another nice thing about the MacBook2,1 is that it's just about the easiest machine to libreboot, and once you've done that the 32-bit restriction goes away (I'm running Trisquel Lite on mine for the full "libre" experience): https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/macbook21.html https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/macbook21.html

uuddlrlrbaba 3y ago

Personally I stopped messing with old hardware on the desktop side. Old laptops make great servers though -- built in UPS and KVM! Fire up some containers and enable all the P states But as a desktop there is a lot that is obnoxiously slow or flat out unusable on old gear. The modern web is really taxing on old hardware like this and its super frustrating to experience severe lag on even basic sites like youtube

fishtacos 3y ago
This* Old laptops make great servers for the very reasons you mentioned Built-in UPS, good enough performance and also reusing old hardware instead of a landfill.Am currently using an 8GB laptop for a server as it's become rather expensive to use a 400W (on average) 4U server 24/7.

rpgbr 3y ago

Debian with a basic wm, like Sway or i3, wouldn’t be a good option in those machines?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

asow92 3y ago

I use a 2.4Ghz Core 2 Duo 2007 iMac running Snow Leopard as my photo lab workstation. Upgraded to 5GB RAM, 512GB SSD. Runs Aperture 2, scans film, and prints photos like a dream. It can even do some light web browsing with https://github.com/wicknix/InterWebSnow https://github.com/wicknix/InterWebSnow, but it often struggles with the modern web. This machine can also be upgraded to a Core 2 Extreme, but I haven't found that necessary for my workflow.

readyplayernull 3y ago
After Snow Leopard MacOS went downhill in performance, every app ran very slowly in my MacBook Pro 2007 with El Capitan, without ever using more than 30% of CPU capacity, the system just crippled them.
- asow92 3y ago
  Agreed 100%. 10.6 is arguably the best version of Mac OS ever. It gave us 64bit GCD and was highly optimized for the hardware of the time. Native software of the time flys on the build listed above.

caycep 3y ago

granted, does anyone remember MkLinux w/ the Mach microkernel?

zare_st 3y ago

Not about Macs but I "revived" my 15 y.o. desktop, had original board and CPU (Q6600), SSD and powersupply stored for years. Bought 8 GB of DDR2, a fanless GT9500 and a cheap case. My case is to have a modern PC but older types of monitors. I like to hook up CRTs just for fun. When you use sub-HD resolutions this kind of computer goes to Youtube normally. Which reminds me of how deep we're in era of iterative design. Modern workflow is possible on a 15 years old platform, because the platform hasn't changed significantly. Imagine trying a year 2000 workflow on a 1985 PC.

badpun 3y ago

I have a decade old Mac (2013 MBP with discrete GPU) and it runs Windows 10 perfectly fine. I even do some light gaming on it.

mensetmanusman 3y ago

I replaced the hd on a 2011 imac with SSD and it's amazing how much faster it is. Basically can be used for another 5 years.

morog 3y ago

I resurrected my wife's 13 year old Sony Vaio as an emergency laptop recently with MX Linux. I had previously tried Ubuntu and also Zorin Lite on it, both worked - but slowly and things like hibernate were broken and freezing up if left unattended. MX is amazing on it, it runs as fast as I remember XP did when the laptop was new, hibernate works perfectly, screen dimming, extending display over multiple monitors and handling unplugging a monitor fine...all the things that Linux has been known to have issues with on random hardware. I have now put in a bigger SSD and 8 more GB of RAM and the laptop is a great little media centre and simple gaming machine for the kids. I'm tempted to setup dual booting my Dell with MX now, it's a great desktop and project